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Thread: Question to purists- Do you want progress?

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by nbhadja View Post
    How do you1 expect to make progress2 in America?
    1: To whom do you refer, specifically?

    2: Without the specificity from 1, we have no idea what you mean by "progress". Please elaborate in detail.

    Your strategy seems to be convert everyone to become paleoconservatives or libertarians and then elect an entire government full of Ron Pauls. Does that really sound realistic to you?
    A valid question, but your insinuation that this is what all "purists" are about fails rather notably. It is no different in principle from "they all look the same to me".

    You are missing the big picture.
    Some, perhaps, but you paint with what seems an overly-broad brush.

    America was not stolen in one day and will not be taken back in one day either.
    Now you appear to be talking some sense.

    It was stolen incrementally. There wasn't just a surge of globalist wrong on everything politicians that suddenly were elected and took control of the government. They slowly shifted the political landscape. They didn't instantly create the Fed, end the gold standard, create heavy taxes, police the world, create the war on drugs all in one swoop.
    Well stated, though the Fed was pretty much instantly created.

    By not understanding the value of electing politicians who at least are good in certain areas, only supporting Ron Paul purity level candidates, and equating politicians who have some good views in critical areas with bad on everything politicians (like equating trump to bush or hillary) you are making your efforts in vain. Your strategy is awful.
    I cannot disagree with anything you wrote there. I just wrote on this very topic this morning, prior to discovering this thread.

    Thankfully most people don't have this view,
    Perhaps, but theirs are generally worse, but coming from another direction. A great plurality of Americans subscribe not only to the bankrupt tenets of progressivism, but are quite comfy with the violation and even murder of anyone standing in the way of realizing their political wet-dream of free lunch, death to white people, and the freedom to butt-sex on the courthouse steps with no fear.

    Brexit and the future certain fall of the European Union would not be possible with your mindset.
    I would not go quite that far.

    I voted for Trump because he is not some puppet shill like McCain Romney or Bush.
    We don't know that yet. It is my hope you prove right on this matter, but I'm not putting my eggs in anyone's basket just yet.

    He has some good views.
    He has EXPRESSED some good views. Whether they are indeed his remains to be seen. Let us hope you are correct.

    Consider the following:

    Hillary wants to antagonize Russia and basically build up a massive conflict further while Trump is friendly with Russia. Its possible the election outcome may have prevented a war. Is there no value in that for you?
    You are assuming this to be the case. It may well be, but I maintain that it is an unproven belief. Let us not turn away from the fact that we live in a world of spin and outright lies. The art, craft, and technology of the lie, and of bull$#@!, are as never before. Every passing day shows it ever more difficult to tell who is telling truth, who is lying, and who is mixing the two. Actions will prove more eloquent than words. Net results will demonstrate the truer measure of Trump than his speak. At this point, only time will reveal the deeper truth, so my recommendation to everyone is to chill the hell out, get on the skeptic's fence, and keep your eyes peeled.

    In football terms you are basically trying to throw a hailmary every drive , going for it on 4th down every time and only accepting drives that end up with 7 points with no regard to field position, time of possession, field goals, plays that go for intermediate or short gains.. going for that madden bomb on every play.
    This is an excellent analogy. Kudos and rep.


    You [purists] don't seem to know how to get things done.
    You go too far. I am a purist of the deepest vein, and yet over the years I have learned the art of being pragmatic. I am still learning.

    Purists are absolutely essential to the cause of liberty. They are the ones who enshrine, guard, and preserve the ideals toward which all should strive. Without them, those ideals end up trampled upon by the presumably well-intending oafs whose flagging virtues cause them to compromise away that which is right in exchange for that which feels good at the moment. It is the idealist who stands at the narthex of the temple, rifle in hand, saying "thou shalt not pass". Without him, truth stands to be lost at the hands of dullards and malefactors. Do not be too eager to drill holes in him. Think of him as the equivalent of the guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.
    Last edited by osan; 11-19-2016 at 09:06 AM. Reason: typos
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Stolen from whom?
    it was stolen by the federalists in 1787



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  5. #33
    I'm pretty damn pure when it comes to Anarcho-Capitalism, but we also need to remember we live in reality as well. So we need to play some games with the system sometimes to gain some progress for ourselves. I think a Trump presidency is in that direction. If it were Romney or McCain I really wouldn't think so (also it was very different circumstances... Rand was hardly even in the primary this go around. Ron actually could have won, especially in 2012. Trump was always my second best pick this go around mainly because he wasn't owned).

    In terms of the political system, if you refuse to participate in any form, you aren't going to be too effective changing anything within. I know we have civil disobedience and the like, but we need some of us in politics to at least try and lessen the damage government does to us (that's my view of what Ron Paul did).

    And if anyone is a little awed by what I said, just read everything Rothbard has done in his life. He had a similar idea as well.

  6. #34
    I want progress---- PERIOD. I do NOT necessarily require progress in the next 4 years, nor the next 40 years, or even my lifetime. As someone who has studied Libertarianism and politics extensively, I am resigned to, and content with, the fact that true liberty will never be achieved in my lifetime. I think progress comes from ideas. Bills and laws are sometimes nice, but they can be erased instantly. Ideas are forever.

  7. #35

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    I detest the term purist. It's a weasel word. Given that to be libertarian simply means to be against government-over-man, there is only fundamental. Fundamental is not purist. Fundamental is fundamental. So either The Individual or a group of Individuals support and defend the fundamental principles of (as well as the primary foundation for moral code for) Individual Liberty as an Indivisible whole or the Individual or group of Individuals do not. It's relatively simple. When you start inserting terms like purist into the terms of controversy all it really demonstrates is one's arbitrary sacrifice of fundamentals without actually acknowledging so. Weasel words like "purist" are intellectually dishonest.
    Well said.
    I am the spoon.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    Stolen from whom?
    I would say it was on a downward spiral by the time white men crossed the Alleghenies and Cumberlands ( Mountains )in any number greater than a few. By then it was only a matter of time, next thing you know govt is blowing the peoples money on food stamps , Mango farms in Pakistan etc
    Do something Danke

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
    it was stolen by the federalists in 1787
    from whom?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  11. #39
    Technological and scientific progress are real things, so-called "social progress" is a myth.

    But I digress. There's a certain kind of person who intentionally holds political opinions that cannot be tested or applied, and indeed, they don't want them to be. They don't actually want to do the work that it takes to move civilization in their preferred direction. Instead, they want to portray themselves as "above the fray" and take pot shots at the status quo. It gives them pleasure to view themselves as having transcended the mire that the rest of the masses wallow in.

    These people don't want power. They talk endlessly about the kind of society they desire and complain about how little the one they live in resembles it while giving no plan of action to actually move toward that goal. The irony is, they'd be miserable living in the kind of civilization they crow about. If it came about, they'd be unable to be the critic, constantly talking about how the system sucks.

    This phenomenon is far bigger than just libertarianism, but the vast majority of ancaps fall under this umbrella.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  12. #40
    And yet the man himself pursued the GOP, an imperfect party in order to gain progress for Liberty. His son also followed his father's lead, as well as other liberty-minded representatives. Does that mean Ron compromised his principals by abandoning a third party run and trying to convert the GOP? No, it was a brilliant move. It was a strategy that pushed a movement into the mainstream (God I hate that word now ). He worked with a party he resigned from in order to give himself and other like-minded people a platform that we needed.

    If your goal is to win, then you need to take every advantage you can. A compromising position is not the same as compromising your principals if you are honest about yourself and to yourself and willing to strike when the time is right. The battlefield is not 2020, it's now and constantly will be.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Natural Citizen View Post
    I detest the term purist. It's a weasel word. Given that to be libertarian simply means to be against government-over-man, there is only fundamental. Fundamental is not purist. Fundamental is fundamental. So either The Individual or a group of Individuals support and defend the fundamental principles of (as well as the primary foundation for moral code for) Individual Liberty as an Indivisible whole or the Individual or group of Individuals do not. It's relatively simple. When you start inserting terms like purist into the terms of controversy all it really demonstrates is one's arbitrary sacrifice of fundamentals without actually acknowledging so. Weasel words like "purist" are intellectually dishonest.
    1000% in agreement-
    There is no spoon.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    from whom?
    the people that won the Revolution

  16. #43

    Trump Plays With Puppets, Apparently

    Quote Originally Posted by nbhadja View Post
    How do you expect to make progress in America? Your strategy seems to be convert everyone to become paleoconservatives or libertarians and then elect an entire government full of Ron Pauls. Does that really sound realistic to you?

    You are missing the big picture. America was not stolen in one day and will not be taken back in one day either. It was stolen incrementally. There wasn't just a surge of globalist wrong on everything politicians that suddenly were elected and took control of the government. They slowly shifted the political landscape. They didn't instantly create the Fed, end the gold standard, create heavy taxes, police the world, create the war on drugs all in one swoop.

    By not understanding the value of electing politicians who at least are good in certain areas, only supporting Ron Paul purity level candidates, and equating politicians who have some good views in critical areas with bad on everything politicians (like equating trump to bush or hillary) you are making your efforts in vain. Your strategy is awful.

    Thankfully most people don't have this view, which is why there is a surge of support for anti-trade anti-globalist and anti-immigration politicians etc in Europe and America. Brexit and the future certain fall of the European Union would not be possible with your mindset.

    I supported Rand Paul for president first. He lost and normally I wouldn't have voted after that for the big 2 candidates...but I voted for Trump because he is not some puppet shill like McCain Romney or Bush. He has some good views.

    Consider the following:

    Hillary wants to antagonize Russia and basically build up a massive conflict further while Trump is friendly with Russia. Its possible the election outcome may have prevented a war. Is there no value in that for you?

    Trump will crack down on illegal immigration and finally end open borders. No value in that? What about establishing voter ID laws? Huge improvements in free trade deals at min or repealing them? No value? Cutting taxes? Cutting welfare? Ending Obamacare (even if you think he will replace it with bad at the very least he will open competition by ending state lines, repealing the individual mandate etc). What about how Politicians like Bush and Hillary directly fund terrorists, while trump will end that. At the very least foreign aid will be cut down and other countries will have to pay us for any services. At best he will slash foreign aid significantly....will crack down on islam... campaign finance reform.... This can go on and on.

    In football terms you are basically trying to throw a hailmary every drive , going for it on 4th down every time and only accepting drives that end up with 7 points with no regard to field position, time of possession, field goals, plays that go for intermediate or short gains.. going for that madden bomb on every play.

    Some of the hardcore purists (not many though) are so extreme that they refuse to even support Rand Paul.

    You don't seem to know how to get things done.
    [Bold emphasis mine]

    You voted for Trump because he's not a "puppet shill like Romney"? Then why is Trump considering that "puppet shill" as his Secretary of State?
    "Then David said to the Philistine, 'You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of Yahweh of hosts, the God of the battle lines of Israel, Whom you have reproached.'" - 1 Samuel 17:45

    "May future generations look back on our work and say that these were men and women who, in moment of great crisis, stood up to their politicians, the opinion-makers, and the Establishment, and saved their country." - Dr. Ron Paul

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    We all have cognitive dissonance; you have cognitive dissonance. Get over it!

    It is perfectly reasonable to be optimistic that President Trump will cut the size of the national government over the next four years -- maybe even more than Rand would have!

    It is also perfectly reasonable to be pessimistic and assume that President Trump will turn into a typical politician, break his promises, grow the government, and do nothing particularly interesting.

    Neither of these positions require any cognitive dissonance, logic-ignoring, mental disease, insanity, nor anything of the kind.
    A senior Trump advisor just promised to take 1 trillion dollars for "infrastructure", throw it against the wall and see what sticks. So if I believe Trump's promises......

    Seriously, which of Trump's promises should I believe? Should I believe him when he says he's going to deport all of the illegals and just bring back the "good ones" through the "big beautiful hole" in the "big beautiful wall" that he's going to build and that Mexico is going to pay for? Do I believe him when he say no to wars of regime change or when he was advocating taking out Gaddafi but making sure we "get the oil" in the process? If Trump keeps his promises....he'll be breaking his promises.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #45
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    Nov 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    "Progress" is for Progressives, not "purists." As a "purist" I want regress.


    ...going back (a regression) in US history will reveal no/very little 'purity'....(pure fascism maybe)

    ..lol!..what a thread!...hey 'impurists,' how much sh!t do you tolerate in your water and still swallow it?..

    [hint for republicrats:...learn a little honest monetary reality and stfu about purity...]

  19. #46
    I'm w/ Panqui.

    It all boils down to financial freedom to me.

    Zero "progress" can be counted on this side of a legal tender and income tax regime.

    END THE FED
    END THE IRS

    When 60k pages of tax code and the "money" printing machines are gone, we can talk about "progress" from there toward eliminating federal, state, and local economic regulations.

    Until the theft ends, I only see revolution on the horizon and have little care for progress.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  20. #47
    The free state concept is a sound idea. Unfortunately we have neither the numbers or resources to realize that dream.

    In a state that has many of the same qualities, a free county project has a much better chance of success, and serve as the pilot program which demonstrates the concept.

    In any case, the amount of liberty gained and maintained must be defended by force of arms. This is an unpleasant truth that it seems to me is wished to be avoided by many libertarians. There is always a point in time at which the forces of tyranny will seek to destroy such an undertaking, and the result must be bodies on the ground and piles of hot brass.

    Until we are willing to do that, there will not be liberty throughout the land.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  21. #48
    If the goal is to climb the mountain of liberty, you don't progress towards that goal by digging a deeper hole.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    If the goal is to climb the mountain of liberty, you don't progress towards that goal by digging a deeper hole.
    or,
    If you want to be Free, you don't build a wall.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    or,
    If you want to be Free, you don't build a wall.
    I do when I want to make it more difficult for people to be free to steal my stuff, or my job, or my family members, or my life.
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    I do when I want to make it more difficult for people to be free to steal my stuff, or my job, or my family members, or my life.
    You have a wall around your own little Athens, Pericles?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    You have a wall around your own little Athens, Pericles?
    Look at very prosperous and more often than not relatively free citizenry at times and places throughout history. They were very restrictive about who was accorded the privilege of joining them.

    Everyone else in the world was perfectly free to copy those successful societies. Why didn't they?
    Out of every one hundred men they send us, ten should not even be here. Eighty will do nothing but serve as targets for the enemy. Nine are real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, upon them depends our success in battle. But one, ah the one, he is a real warrior, and he will bring the others back from battle alive.

    Duty is the most sublime word in the English language. Do your duty in all things. You can not do more than your duty. You should never wish to do less than your duty.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Look at very prosperous and more often than not relatively free citizenry at times and places throughout history. They were very restrictive about who was accorded the privilege of joining them.

    Everyone else in the world was perfectly free to copy those successful societies. Why didn't they?
    What does that have to do with your desire to rob me so you can feel safe?
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Pericles View Post
    Look at very prosperous and more often than not relatively free citizenry at times and places throughout history. They were very restrictive about who was accorded the privilege of joining them.

    Everyone else in the world was perfectly free to copy those successful societies. Why didn't they?
    I'll just leave this here...
    Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
    That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
    And spills the upper boulders in the sun,
    And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
    The work of hunters is another thing:
    I have come after them and made repair
    Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
    But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
    To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
    No one has seen them made or heard them made,
    But at spring mending-time we find them there.
    I let my neighbor know beyond the hill;
    And on a day we meet to walk the line
    And set the wall between us once again.
    We keep the wall between us as we go.
    To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
    And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
    We have to use a spell to make them balance:
    'Stay where you are until our backs are turned!'
    We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
    Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
    One on a side. It comes to little more:
    There where it is we do not need the wall:
    He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
    My apple trees will never get across
    And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
    He only says, 'Good fences make good neighbors'.
    Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
    If I could put a notion in his head:
    'Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
    Where there are cows?
    But here there are no cows.
    Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
    What I was walling in or walling out,
    And to whom I was like to give offence.
    Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
    That wants it down.' I could say 'Elves' to him,
    But it's not elves exactly, and I'd rather
    He said it for himself. I see him there
    Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
    In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
    He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
    Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
    He will not go behind his father's saying,
    And he likes having thought of it so well
    He says again, "Good fences make good neighbors." - Robert Frost, Mending Wall
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    A senior Trump advisor just promised to take 1 trillion dollars for "infrastructure", throw it against the wall and see what sticks. So if I believe Trump's promises......

    Seriously, which of Trump's promises should I believe? Should I believe him when he says he's going to deport all of the illegals and just bring back the "good ones" through the "big beautiful hole" in the "big beautiful wall" that he's going to build and that Mexico is going to pay for? Do I believe him when he say no to wars of regime change or when he was advocating taking out Gaddafi but making sure we "get the oil" in the process? If Trump keeps his promises....he'll be breaking his promises.
    I am not saying you ought to believe any of them. Nor that anyone else should. Nor, indeed that anyone should believe anything that anyone says.

    I am simply saying that both optimism and pessimism are outside of the realm of logic. Both attitudes are equally reasonable in this case.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by otherone View Post
    What does that have to do with your desire to rob me so you can feel safe?
    Your hallucination is noted.

    Pericles expressed no such desire.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    Your hallucination is noted.

    Pericles expressed no such desire.
    Neither did he express a desire to build a wall around his own house, using his own money, to keep his own stuff safe.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by helmuth_hubener View Post
    I am not saying you ought to believe any of them. Nor that anyone else should. Nor, indeed that anyone should believe anything that anyone says.

    I am simply saying that both optimism and pessimism are outside of the realm of logic. Both attitudes are equally reasonable in this case.
    Sure. I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be optimistic about when it comes to Trump.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Sure. I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to be optimistic about when it comes to Trump.
    I am optimistic. So, perhaps, I'm a good one to explain. (Or perhaps that actually makes me poorly-suited to the task!)

    Anyway, first: Trump is his own man, not a puppet. That's just a fact. So, that means: who knows what he'll do! He could do whatever! Literally. There are not the massive behind-the-scenes strings of lobbyists and puppet-masters controlling him. So he's a wild card. That certainly doesn't mean he'll do something good -- but it means that he could.

    Second: many, many of the things he talked about during the campaign are things that would be good for liberty. People tend like to stay in character. Politicians can't keep impossible promises, but they can and do stay true to the general ideological platform they set out during the campaign. Obama promised ObamaCare. Guess what? Delivered! Promise kept. Bush delivered on his promise to be a "compassionate" big-government conservative and to expand Medicare to pay for drugs. Presidents generally are pretty much -- or, often, exactly! -- the type of president anyone could have predicted them to be before being elected. Obama has been exactly the type of President I would have expected him to be, based on who he was while campaigning. Exactly. Same with Bush.

    Let's expand on this second point. Mr. Donald J. Trump has:

    • Promised to put a freeze on all new regulations. This actually seems to be happening, by the way! To all appearances, this is his settled policy, his actual plan. It realistically may happen once he is sworn in. If it does, this would be, by far, the best and most important libertarian victory on the Federal level in my lifetime. Probably, in fact, the hugest victory since the mass-liberalization following WWII.

    • Proposed to pay off the national debt by selling off federal assets. This is the Harry Browne plan. That Mr. Trump proposed this shows, by the way, if nothing else, that he has listened to or read Harry Browne's policy proposals (or that he's a libertarian super-genius who came up with the same thing as Harry independently). That is a good thing, in my book. Now, it goes without saying, this is wildly unlikely to actually happen. If it does, we will all be so insanely happy we will forget about any problem we ever had with Trump and every libertarian in America will build a monument to him in his front yard and name or re-name all his children Donald... including the girls.

    • Promised to appoint people to the (so-called) Supreme Court from a list of candidates who are conservative and largely small-government people (compared to the status quo). This is certainly not too hard to imagine happening. Seems very doable. Very likely he will deliver on this promise.

    There are lots of other proposals and policy statements that could be listed, but three's a good number, people can wrap their heads around three. And those are three great positions Trump took on the campaign trail. Good for him.

    Third: Both the House and Senate are Republican majority. Donald Trump will just be the President. A lot of what happens is determined by Congress. There are many items that are on the Republican agenda that are small-government pro-liberty items. With both houses and a friendly President, they could start to get through. Even some Rand Paul bills might get passed and signed. We'll see.

    Anyway, I can't control what happens, so why not enjoy it? Why not be optimistic? For the first time in my lifetime, there is actually some real, articulable reason to be optimistic! (no matter how slight.) So yeah, I'm optimistic, and then when nothing good happens and instead everything bad does, I can have my hopes crushed to pieces and dashed on the rocks and shake my fist at the betrayal! It's all part of the fun!
    Last edited by helmuth_hubener; 11-21-2016 at 02:41 PM.

  35. #60
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    helmuth trumpets: Anyway, first: Trump is his own man, not a puppet. That's just a fact.



    ....and you know this exactly how?...do you know him personally?...or do you 'know' him through 'the media' ?your republicans frequently condemn...

    ...let's say someone owed gold sack$ and/or the chinese government banksters, etc., some yuuuuuuge illion$...would that person be his own man?...

    ...good grief, helmuth, i know the holiday season is rough for a lot of republicrats...maybe lay off the keyboard republicrat cheerleading for a while...
    Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 11-22-2016 at 08:16 AM.

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