High-Paying Trade Jobs Sit Empty, While High School Grads Line Up For University

[DamianTV]

https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/0...for-university

While a shortage of workers is pushing wages higher in the skilled trades, the financial return from a bachelor's degree is softening, even as the price -- and the average debt into which it plunges students -- keeps going up. But high school graduates have been so effectively encouraged to get a bachelor's that high-paid jobs requiring shorter and less expensive training are going unfilled. This affects those students and also poses a real threat to the economy. "Parents want success for their kids," said Mike Clifton, who teaches machining at the Lake Washington Institute of Technology, about 20 miles from Seattle. "They get stuck on [four-year bachelor's degrees], and they're not seeing the shortage there is in tradespeople until they hire a plumber and have to write a check."

In a new report, the Washington State Auditor found that good jobs in the skilled trades are going begging because students are being almost universally steered to bachelor's degrees. Among other things, the Washington auditor recommended that career guidance -- including choices that require less than four years in college -- start as early as the seventh grade. "There is an emphasis on the four-year university track" in high schools, said Chris Cortines, who co-authored the report. Yet, nationwide, three out of 10 high school grads who go to four-year public universities haven't earned degrees within six years, according to the National Student Clearinghouse. At four-year private colleges, that number is more than 1 in 5.

Education doesnt service the existing industry, Education IS the industry.

What we have today also is not education, its workforce training.

"If education is beaten by workforce training, civilization dies." - CS Lewis

[phill4paul]

From Mike Rowe's facebook....

Off the Wall

Mike - Is it satisfying to see that every single thing in this article is PRECISELY what you've been saying for the last ten years, or is it annoying to see that mikeroweWORKS isn't even mentioned?

Steve Reynolds

Hi Steve

The short answer, is yes. It's always gratifying when large news organizations support my foundations agenda - especially with an article this good - but if I'm being honest, I would have liked to been asked for a quote. Not because I like to see my name in print, but because I could have told their readers we're accepting applications for the next round of Work Ethic Scholarships. I could have said something like...

"Well thanks, NPR, that's an excellent question. In my view, the widening skills gap and the increasing cost of college aren't problems, in and of themselves; they're symptoms - symptoms of our insistence on promoting one form of education at the expense of all the others. This lopsided, cookie-cutter approach to learning has led to a mountain of myths and misperceptions that discourage millions of people from exploring many viable opportunities that don't require an expensive four-year degree. To close the skills gap, we need to affirmatively debunk the misinformation surrounding these opportunities, and stop treating whole categories of jobs like vocational consolation prizes. Toward that end, mikeroweWORKS is accepting applications for another round of Work Ethic Scholarships, specifically designed for people who wish to learn a skill that's actually in demand. And your readers are welcome to apply at mikeroweWORKS.org/scholarship."

Or something like that...

Mike

https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/

[Anti Federalist]

Rand Paul/Mike Rowe 2020

[VIDEODROME]

I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle. I mean they're probably doing okay with that, but I don't know if I'd call that High-Paying. Many other jobs with a college education would probably pay a lot more with less negative effects on health like work place injury or back strain.

Also, I think both Blue Collar and White Collar industries keep making the claim they can't get enough qualified people; it's not just the Trades. We never have enough Doctors or Nurses. Not enough people are learning Computer Programming or Cyber Security. Or there is a shortage of people in STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) related career paths.

I feel like we're not getting the whole story. In some cases, I suspect the Colleges are providing General Education and Fundamentals, while Businesses demand people with experience who understand their highly specialized proprietary systems, equipment, work methods, or even terminology. To some extent, I also think this is business scapegoating colleges and students while not admitting this is a failure by industry to bridge this gap or mismanaged by clueless HR people.

[Brian4Liberty]

I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle. I mean they're probably doing okay with that, but I don't know if I'd call that High-Paying. Many other jobs with a college education would probably pay a lot more with less negative effects on health like work place injury or back strain.

Also, I think both Blue Collar and White Collar industries keep making the claim they can't get enough qualified people; it's not just the Trades. We never have enough Doctors or Nurses. Not enough people are learning Computer Programming or Cyber Security. Or there is a shortage of people in STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) related career paths.

I feel like we're not getting the whole story. In some cases, I suspect the Colleges are providing General Education and Fundamentals, while Businesses demand people with experience who understand their highly specialized proprietary systems, equipment, work methods, or even terminology. To some extent, I also think this is business scapegoating colleges and students while not admitting this is a failure by industry to bridge this gap or mismanaged by clueless HR people.

What is lacking today is a perfect employee that is fully trained, with 5 years experience, who is willing to work for peanuts, who says yes to everything, that works 12 hours a day, never takes a day off, is related in some way to the hiring manager, and magically appears out of thin air without the employer even having to say they need a new employee.

And if all of those conditions are not met, the US Chamber of Commerce or some lobby group will make sure it makes headlines and becomes the top priority of government.

[dannno]

I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle. I mean they're probably doing okay with that, but I don't know if I'd call that High-Paying. Many other jobs with a college education would probably pay a lot more with less negative effects on health like work place injury or back strain.

There are three things that typically happen to students after they graduate college.

They get a decent well paying job or better.

They get a part time or low paying job like a barista at Starbucks or something in the service industry.

They don't find work at all.

I think there are a lot more people in the second and third category than you think, who would be well served by either not going to college and just sticking to the service sector or learning some type of trade if they want to make more money.

[Brian4Liberty]

This is a failure of recruitment and hiring, which does take some effort. Most employers put zero effort into it. They want a perfect person dropped in their lap.

[jmdrake]

[specsaregood]

This is a failure of recruitment and hiring, which does take some effort. Most employers put zero effort into it. They want a perfect person dropped in their lap.

It takes both, plenty of those potential hires would rather slack off at starbucks than really work to advance in a career.

[fisharmor]

I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle.

Wow, no kidding.

If you get your foot into IT, you will be earning almost that at entry level, sitting in an ergonomic chair, in climate control, wearing comfortable clothes, screwing around online a couple times a day, and if you work for the right place you'll be able to get high in your down time without worrying about losing your job.
Even if that $50k is accurate, it's not necessarily a better deal.

[dannno]

Wow, no kidding.

If you get your foot into IT, you will be earning almost that at entry level, sitting in an ergonomic chair, in climate control, wearing comfortable clothes, screwing around online a couple times a day, and if you work for the right place you'll be able to get high in your down time without worrying about losing your job.
Even if that $50k is accurate, it's not necessarily a better deal.

lol... we aren't talking about people who can just "get their foot into IT". We are talking about people who go to IT when they have a problem with their computer, which is the vast majority of people.

[VIDEODROME]

There are three things that typically happen to students after they graduate college.

They get a decent well paying job or better.

They get a part time or low paying job like a barista at Starbucks or something in the service industry.

They don't find work at all.

I think there are a lot more people in the second and third category than you think, who would be well served by either not going to college and just sticking to the service sector or learning some type of trade if they want to make more money.

This gets closer to the real issues of the job market. All industries whine saying they have a shortage of qualified people, but is anyone really addressing how to pair up these unemployed grads with these jobs or figure out why they fell through the cracks?

[angelatc]

Or there is a shortage of people in STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) related career paths. .

I don't know what to believe. My neighbor is a gay woman with a STEM degree. She is managing a local car rental place.

[VIDEODROME]

Possibly it's mostly bull$#@! from industry explaining any shortcomings saying they understaffed. Mike Rowe and journalists need to dig deeper.

[Brian4Liberty]

It takes both, plenty of those potential hires would rather slack off at starbucks than really work to advance in a career.

Yeah, it does go both ways. You won't get a job sitting on the couch playing X-Box. It take some initiative and perseverance. But too many employers discourage that initiative by redirecting potential employees to the black hole of the "official" HR online application process.

[DamianTV]

This gets closer to the real issues of the job market. All industries whine saying they have a shortage of qualified people, but is anyone really addressing how to pair up these unemployed grads with these jobs or figure out why they fell through the cracks?

You may have missed what you said, but "cracks" is plural, there are multiple problems. One is that higher education has become its own industry and is built to service itself, not the job market. Next big one is HR. Also a product of education. Many people in HR are taught to "match" applicants perfectly to employer standards. And they rely on software to use it. HR people are not IT people, so expect those programs to have problems. Im getting really sick of my resume getting tossed aside because I didnt use a "buzz word" customized to an employers liking when they wont offer more than a pittance of what they should be. Also, wages are not 100% employers fault due to economy, but Im not gonna waste time going thru eight hours of forms to have a one in a thousand chance of even being looked at.

So lets take an adult swing at this and ask the right questions that lead to solutions.

What are the Cracks?
- Wages are too low for applicants to care
- Employer Standards are too high
- Employer Expectations of "perfect" matches
- Education failed to properly prepare students for real world job market
- H1B Visas cover the failure of Education
- Software for HR is too complex for any applicant to just "know" how to make their customized resume too high
- Too much competition from collapsing industries
- MSM distortion of reality
- Employer lack of willingness or resources to properly train applicants
- Applicants feel their jobs are disposable and do not put forth 100% effort
- Lack of Career Path
- Lack of meaningful full time work
- Lack of Insurance
- Job Websites profit by not matching Applicants to Jobs
- Credit Scores should not be used to disqualify applicants from many jobs
- Cost of Education in Student Loans to the student seen as a major risk by many unskilled workers
- Government Subsidies of very low wage jobs like Amazon Warehouse
- Government Interference by requiring Licenses for an ever increasing number of jobs
- Illegal Immigration
- Age / Gender Discrimination
- Businesses that wont hire someone that is over qualified due to "flight risk"
- Cost to run the same business in another country is far more profitable to many businesses
- Trickle Down Economics do not work
- Saturation of Applicant Competition

Not every problem applies to every employer / applicant. But these are all major factors that have complicated the process of hiring people. If everything were awesome, there wouldnt be as many applications for jobs. Businesses seem like they dont hire for positions they offer, and they have huge resources to look through. They arent just looking thru the applications for the jobs, but Resume Postings on Unemployment Websites as well as other Job Sites that also host Resumes.

It can cost an employer $300 to post a job listing on some Job Websites like Monster.com. Monster has a financial incentive to not match a qualified applicant. The result, without conspiracy, is that the worse their system functions, the more money the Job Website makes. There is not just one crack. There are a ton. Our economy has been shattered.

[Brian4Liberty]

... Next big one is HR. Also a product of education. Many people in HR are taught to "match" applicants perfectly to employer standards. And they rely on software to use it. HR people are not IT people, so expect those programs to have problems. Im getting really sick of my resume getting tossed aside because I didnt use a "buzz word" customized to an employers liking when they wont offer more than a pittance of what they should be. Also, wages are not 100% employers fault due to economy, but Im not gonna waste time going thru eight hours of forms to have a one in a thousand chance of even being looked at. ...

Yeah, the software aspect of HR has probably made it less likely for a potential employee to get through. I have seen situations at large companies where the job req and keywords in the HR system were completely wrong. Wrong programming languages and tools were listed, while the actual required ones were not there. The complaint that came to me was that they couldn't get any good candidates through HR. The alternative was an Indian body shop importing H1-Bs. Was it intentional or incompetence? It was hard to track down this "error". People in HR were not forthcoming. I found out when a person hired was complaining that the actual job did not match the req at all.

Incompetence is always most likely, but sabotage with an alternative business agenda also occurs...

[DamianTV]

It probably wouldnt help if SJWs are drawn to HR jobs for some odd reason, and carry with them the normal hating cry baby malicious personas we see in so many extremists!

[r3volution 3.0]

Hard to imagine why an 18 year old would forgo manual labor in favor of 4 years of partying financed on loans which he expects to be forgiven...

[kcchiefs6465]

I don't know what to believe. My neighbor is a gay woman with a STEM degree. She is managing a local car rental place.

The value of a degree has gone down and often prior experience within a field is required as a prerequisite for hire (or enough people have experience who in turn get selected over them). Many cannot afford to intern to gain the experience needed to qualify for the position.

In the few cases of people I know who have degrees and no job within their field of study, this is what it has boiled down to.