Oh, and Option 2 would create more PoW
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Oh, and Option 2 would create more PoW
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
What Marx thought is irrelevant, progressives shift and squirm to whatever position gives them tactical advantage in each generation.
They own them because foreign socialists and Demoncrats have few differences, they sealed the deal by giving them free stuff.
Free stuff again.
Most Swampublicans want to take less of my liberty and money than almost all Demoncrats, if immigrants and minorities cared about liberty they would vote third party or they would overcome the fears of Republicans by voting Republican and changing the stereotype, the reason so many Republicans fear minorities and immigrants is because they have given them ample reason to, the bad politics came first and the fear was reaction to it.
When you adopt anti-Americanism and communism it is easy to embrace foreign communists and when you deliberately buy votes you look on those who sell out to you as useful pets.
Wrong, immigrants and minorities want free stuff and they don't care about anything else or they would vote third party.
That won't happen while kleptocracy reigns and floods of immigrants will ensure that it continues to do so.
Very undesirable and to be avoided at all costs but if they start a civil war to subject us to tyranny they might cause it, many of us would oppose war crimes and desire to expel them or give them their own territory but they will have driven many otherwise decent people over the edge and I fear that many prisoners and noncombatants will be killed.
You forgot two options:
4. Peaceful secession
CALExit etc. would save lives while allowing the left to try their plans for utopia without us pesky deplorables and would upend the "lesser of two evils" racket in our territory giving us a chance to compete with the Swampublicans and ending their ability to use "the need to compromise" as an excuse to sell us out.
5. A great awakening wherein the left exposes itself in such gruesome detail that anyone with any decency is shocked into sanity
It is a necessary permanent safeguard against the loss of freedom.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Oh-Kay! Now we're playing! So your official tactic on this one is to try to parse a difference between "It doesn't matter" and "I don't care." Beautiful! I love it! As in "this thing X absolutely doesn't matter (at all!), but boy howdy I sure do care about it (a lot!)!"
That is fantastic, railroad. I love it.
And what's up with all the /S? You end the tag, but then it ends again, never having restarted. End tags, but no start tags. Is it nested, making the first /S like a double-negative, meaning what preceeds it is actually not sarcastic? What's sarcastic, what is not? However are we to tell?
Maybe the part about "It doesn't matter" and "I don't care" being totally different are actually sarcastic, or even double- or triple-sarcastic? Because that would be awesome.
Let's just review once again your POINT -- I don't want to be accused of missing the POINT!
Railroad says:
Then says:Nation-state border traversal and nation-state trade interventions are what separate the liberty-obsessed with the merely liberty-minded. When people pretend not to get the point, it tells me all I need to know - they want their liberty but they're too scared to let the guy across the river have his.
Hmm.
Well..... there you go!
Which don't matter.
Wait, wait, wait. How about whether they're allowed to exercise them by our government?Whether they're allowed to exercise them by their government or not doesn't enter the picture.
That was, after all, your original gripe with everyone! They're too pathetically frightened to allow the river-wading foreigners their Inalienable Human Right to enter their country and access their resources. They are also mentally weak and inconsistent, right? They lack the moral courage and fortitude that you have to be 100% right all the time. They're satisfied with being right only 90% of the time. Lame! Losers! Why don't you go cower under your beds from the Mexican boogieman, losers!
What RR means is that his right to have cheap labor is more important than my right to keep as much liberty as I can for as long as I can.
He (and others here) are willing to sell their birthright for a mess of pottage.
People are not just economic animals, they have ideology even when they don't think about it consciously, in a republic that ideology will result in an attack on my freedom, for the sake of freedom I must suffer some attacks on my liberty from natural born citizens but I have every right to keep out any reinforcements for them.
Even a libertarian absolute monarchy would have to limit immigration to prevent an uprising of foreign socialists who would outnumber the domestic libertarians. (not to mention the natives that would convert to socialism under the foreigners' influence)
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
There you go again, posting an unsubstantiated assertion. It just so happens that my priority in such matters is to adhere to the text of our Constitution and its documented legislative intent, which gives context to its text. Applying this priority to immigration/migration, I side with one of our forefathers.
Let us recall what Representative BURKE says during our Nations` first debate on a RULE OF NATURALIZATION, FEB. 3RD, 1790
Mr. BURKE thought it of importance to fill the country with useful men, such as farmers, mechanics, and manufacturers, and, therefore, would hold out every encouragement to them to emigrate to America. This class he would receive on liberal terms; and he was satisfied there would be room enough for them, and for their posterity, for five hundred years to come. There was another class of men, whom he did not think useful, and he did not care what impediments were thrown in their way; such as your European merchants, and factors of merchants, who come with a view of remaining so long as will enable them to acquire a fortune, and then they will leave the country, and carry off all their property with them. These people injure us more than they do us good, and, except in this last sentiment, I can compare them to nothing but leeches. They stick to us until they get their fill of our best blood, and then they fall off and leave us. I look upon the privilege of an American citizen to be an honorable one, and it ought not to be thrown away upon such people. There is another class also that I would interdict, that is, the convicts and criminals which they pour out of British jails. I wish sincerely some mode could be adopted to prevent the importation of such; but that, perhaps, is not in our power; the introduction of them ought to be considered as a high misdemeanor.
JWK
American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance the economic needs of millions of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled aliens who have invaded America borders.
Meh. The Republicans reached out to the immigrant community in the Reagan years with amnesty. They have no reason to repeat the exercise. Undoubtedly, many of the children of those immigrants who benefited from the Republicans' generous offer of amnesty are now well over 18 and voting Democrat. To continue to offer such terms is political suicide.
"Free stuff" is hard to compete against, simply put. Few people will vote for you if you do not promise them anything in return. The more desperate and poor your audience is, the harder liberty is to sell.
Last edited by nobody's_hero; 04-13-2018 at 02:47 PM.
T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato
We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me
Originally Posted by Philhelm
Really.
I see no posts from you about unconstitutional wars; about government owning land that belongs to the states, about over-regulations that harm small businesses, about gov unconstitutionally in education, medicine, and everything else that should be private, about the WoT and the WoD.
Start objecting to those instead of your "hate dem brown people" meme & you might be taken a bit more seriously.
There is no spoon.
The answer, to me, is that democrats have positioned themselves as the party of "more government" and the party of "government that does more", which is what the vast majority of immigrants, and minorities want.
And most "natives" as well, only in slightly lower percentages.
I find democrats do the same thing, as far as fomenting and cultivating fear of "the other", especially considering we are "the other" to them.Republicans, like Democrats are almost entirely anti-liberty. But Republicans also have a culture of suspicion and fear of the other. Therefore, Republicans are repellent to immigrants and minorities, literally pushing them to the other side. It really wouldn't matter what the Democrats stood for. Republicans really F'd this up for decades and they've gone into convulsions trying to make it worse the last couple of years. But even back in 2008, I'll always remember standing in line with a bunch of white guys and one black guy at my precinct convention. One old white guy told the black guy, "Hey you, the Obama people are over there." And sure enough the black guy left. Don't know if he walked right into the Democrat convention or not, but I promise you he was through with Republicans.
That said, your anecdote is sad commentary no doubt, very unfortunate. It was one of the things that always impressed me about our "movement" in it's heady early days, that so many people could put such things aside and unite around liberty.
Gave me hope...for a brief moment in time.
I see I just addressed this, so I'm being redundant...but that fear of non progressives is poisonous.The question is, how did Democrats kick the suspicion and fear syndrome and become the inclusive big tent? I think it has nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with good strategy. The only suspicion and fear Democrats have is toward non-Democrats.
Especially when you look at history and see what statist progressives have done over and over to political heretics in their midst.
Which is why I have dug my heels in and become more militant and less "tolerant".
Many would fault me for being sucked into this dangerous game, for playing along with the narrative that has us all at each other's throats.
A valid point...but I'm only going to sit still and listen to the political opposition call for my outright banishment from the political sphere of influence, or literal, actual, for real, mass grave extermination, so many times, before I react.
Option one is impossible, for the reasons I posted above.Republicans can survive one of three ways in the future:
1. Legislate the liberty platform, dump all the xenophobic invective and decisively win over the hearts and minds of immigrants and minorities.
2. A mammoth increase in unprotected white-on-white intercourse.
3. Exterminate all immigrants and minorities, inside and outside the United States.
Your idea of keeping out some number of immigrants is at best a (liberty-compromising) temporary band-aid for the Republican party and has no positive bearing on your or anybody else's liberty.
Option one is a good one. Option two, while at first blush appealing, is a little limiting.
Option two is difficult, especially with so many woemen now committed and die hard pussy protesters and fourth wave feminists. If I were a young man on the dating/marriage/having children scene today, I'd just as soon stick my dick in a wood chipper than get involved with toxic broads like that.
Option three is a tongue in cheek non answer.
There is Option four: Secession and dissolution.
I am all for that. Let everybody go their way. Let California vote itself into becoming Venezuela, for instance.
Then build a wall around them.
Insanity. If you think Republicans = Liberty; Democrats = Slavery, you better figure out a way to change the white/brown ratio massively. If we stop immigration now and deport half of the brown citizens, Republicans still lose. White men and white women are going to need to really hump like there's no tomorrow if you want a white Republican party to succeed in the future.
The Republican marketing arm is sending the message that IF YOU ARE NOT WHITE WE DON'T WANT YOU. The grassroots has taken it up as a battle cry.
"Meh" all you want. That's hot death on a stick.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Amen. So the rest of what you're saying is you'd rather let the world go to hell in a hand-basket because you're jaded.
The "brown people and women genetically want free stuff more than white men so f em" thing is low-IQ trumpspeak and doesn't belong in your brain.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Is that why a higher % of minorities (hispanic and black) voted for Trump than Romney?
The message is America first and personal responsibility - when the jobs come back they will come back for everyone including minorities and a few of the smart ones know that and supported Trump.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
... who want free stuff not jobs apparently. Please go on with your depiction of trumptopia. Nah, I'll do it for you - an economic wonderland in which Keynesian stimulus, dynamic central banking and mercantilism seed the clouds of the free market to produce a golden shower of prosperity for even the lowliest pygmy.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
We are talking about minorities, not immigrants. It may be true that less minorities want jobs than non-minorities, but you think none of them want jobs? That sounds racist to me.
The point is that everybody will be better off because of Trump, even though dumb people don't understand very well, economic prosperity and the free market helps everybody not just rich people.
I'm not talking about a utopia, never have. I do know that what we have now is far from it, it is leading away from it, and what Trump wants is much closer to it than where we are headed otherwise. He is into slashing regulations and taxes, and only spending money on American interests. There is a lot of pressure on him by the deep state to keep spending money on non-American interests and he is using his best negotiating skills to reduce that as much as he can. A libertarian society where we don't spend any money would clearly be better, but limiting our spending to our own interests is a great start.Please go on with your depiction of trumptopia. Nah, I'll do it for you - an economic wonderland in which Keynesian stimulus, dynamic central banking and mercantilism seed the clouds of the free market to produce a golden shower of prosperity for even the lowliest pygmy.
A lot better than Hillary 'Bomb the Syrian airfields' Clinton..
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Wow! An incredible eight percent of black people voted Trump (Romney got six! That is worth bragging about! Did he sway a huge portion of Latino voters? 29% (vs 27% for Romney- not that great of an improvement). In 2004, 44% of the Latin vote went Republican.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/aviksar.../#3d7902aa35fd
Minorities be loving all over Trump!
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-13-2018 at 01:32 PM.
A 25% increase is worth bragging about.. and the main point is that Romney was not big on protecting the borders, Trump was a huge advocate of protecting the borders.
The theory would be that Trump would get less % votes than Romney, because Trump is a "racist" and wants to build a wall. That is the narrative. The truth is clearly different, and some minorities see through the bull$#@!, even though it is not many.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Minorities and immigrants and women want government to "do more".
Poll after poll after poll shows this.
So of course, they are not going to vote for the party that is perceived as wanting government to do less.
And won't touch any true limited government libertarianism with a 10 foot pole.
Absolutely everybody hated Hillary Clinton except maybe a few hundred thousand government stooges. About the same as the number of alt-righters that weren't deeply suspicious of trump. There's nothing to brag about in his numbers. Any other R candidate would have wiped the floor decisively with Hillary Clinton instead of squeaking by in the electoral college.
Virtually every American vote was for whom the voter perceived to be the least horrifying human abomination.
America is sweating it out until trump is gone. America's solution for neutralizing him is giving the House to the Democrats. Republican congressmen are leaving in droves trying to help facilitate it.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
FYF
Republicans have hated on and actively marginalized women, minorities and immigrants for generations now. Who knows what would happen if they just stopped it?
There is 1 libertarian-Republican senator in Washington DC who has stopped being a cro-magnon moron about women, minorities and immigrants. In my view, he's the only prominent politician in a position to make a difference working toward real, honest-to-goodness liberty. For him or against him?
Last edited by undergroundrr; 04-13-2018 at 02:18 PM.
Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018
Because Ender alleges to not have seen any posts from me about our federal government engaging in unconstitutional activities, does not mean such posts do not exists. In fact, I have a long history in this forum for documenting numerous activities engaged in by our federal government which violate both the text and legislative intent of our federal Constitution. Included in those posts are some of the very subjects Ender alleges to not have seen.
Instead of actually addressing the post Ender quoted from, he uses the forum to engage in an old and tired stupid debating trick creating a false innuendo and then goes on to post an extremely insulting remark which has no basis in fact.
I do not think this forum was created to invite such nonsense which disrupts civil discourse.
JWK
"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." -- Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968
LOL- all that yelling above w/o answering anything, while calling ME disruptive.
You scream constantly about the Constitution but never acknowledge the fact the Constitution was a Hamiltonian coup to create a strong central government.
And as far as this statement:
That's EXACTLY what amuricans said about the Irish:American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance the economic needs of millions of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled aliens who have invaded America borders.
The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists. And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish.
Last edited by Ender; 04-13-2018 at 02:33 PM.
There is no spoon.
Oh, and now I get a -rep from Swordsmyth & spudea because I'm "unfair" to johnwk for calling him out on hypocrisy.
Boo. Hoo.
There is no spoon.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
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