What changing attitudes have you noticed in your average leftist voter?

[Todd]

What if I told you it doesn't matter who loses an election? What matters is who wins, causing someone to lose an election doesn't stop their agenda from happening, it may even cause it to happen worse depending on who wins.

The enemy has an unlimited supply of puppets to do their bidding, no matter how many you throw out they will always have more, the only effective thing you can do is to support the best available option until a better option is available.

You aren't cutting off fuel to the engine, you are allowing the speed freak to take over the controls.

Yes....It's much better to be tortured slowly

[Swordsmyth]

The Left's tea party was OWS: a grassroots effort to remove moneyed interests from politics.

Which was an unconstitutional attack on freedom of speech, OWS actually has a few good positions but that wasn't one of them.

I seem to recall a GOP primary where Ron Paul's followers were illegally crushed and removed from the debate, pushed out of event halls, and mocked and denounced by the GOP wing of the press. Don't pretend that the Dems have a lock on crushing free speech. Everyone here witnessed the events of 2007, many of us first-hand.

The left was always worse and they are getting even worse yet.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes....It's much better to be tortured slowly

If you are still alive you can try to escape, if you are dead you can't.

[nobody's_hero]

The Left's tea party was OWS: a grassroots effort to remove moneyed interests from politics.



I seem to recall a GOP primary where Ron Paul's followers were illegally crushed and removed from the debate, pushed out of event halls, and mocked and denounced by the GOP wing of the press. Don't pretend that the Dems have a lock on crushing free speech. Everyone here witnessed the events of 2007, many of us first-hand.

I recall the events vividly as well, no reminders necessary. Was it the average Republican voter who did that, or the people running the party? I was present at the GA GOP convention when this happened:



And I seem to recall a bunch of libertarians here who joined the left in kicking the Tea Party when they were down, instead of trying to find some common ground with them and working to rout the neocons. Rand Paul rode the tea party wave into office. There seems to be a tendency to turn to bitterness here, over who gets credit for the victory, rather than seeing the bigger picture.

Basically I walked into a low-level county GOP meeting one day, not knowing a single person in that room, and they gave me a slot as a delegate (to be fair, it was a bunch of old white people who didn't really want to do be bothered with delegate responsibilities, lol, but they were nice). And they knew I supported Ron Paul. Can you do that in the democratic party?

[Anti Federalist]

What? In the NH Senate, only 3 incumbents lost - two R's and one D (a couple are still undecided)
https://ballotpedia.org/New_Hampshir...lections,_2018
The NH House, it was worse for team red, but the overall incumbent percentage was still pretty high. https://ballotpedia.org/New_Hampshir...lections,_2018

It's really the best predictor of an election - who is the incumbent?

Damn it, that's what I get for skimming The Concord Monitor's headlines...they had printed some such about "all the old guard are out".

I retract my statement.

[Swordsmyth]

Damn it, that's what I get for skimming The Concord Monitor's headlines...they had printed some such about "all the old guard are out".

I retract my statement.

Your main point about what would happen if all the incumbents were thrown out no matter who the opposition was still stands.

[Anti Federalist]

Your main point about what would happen if all the incumbents were thrown out no matter who the opposition was still stands.

Many of the incumbents that would not have supported all those measures were voted out.

[Cleaner44]

Everyone wants freedom for themselves; it's the other guy that they want controlled.

True. Reminds me of the old joke I heard, the comedian said something lie, "ever notice how everyone driving slower than you is an idiot and everyone driving faster is crazy?"

Should I jump off a bridge now or should I jump off later?

I don't think its that dire. Just accept the reality and deal with it accordingly. Protect yourself at all times.

The authoritarianism would be MUCH worse if Hillary and the left had gotten control, that's what you are losing site of and why people here don't buy that you guys are such big fans of liberty. If you were fans of liberty, you would want us to have the most amount of liberty possible rather than throwing it all away and becoming part of a global socialist oligarchy dictatorship.

Nobody here who likes Trump would be giving him support if we lived in a free society with our Constitution functioning. If our congress was full of Massie's, our Supreme Courts full of Judge Naps and our President was Rand and we had a peaceful foreign policy then Trump is the last thing anybody here would want.. The reason people like Trump is because he is the best weapon to defend what we are up against. If you don't understand what that is (what we are up against), then you are either naive or you ARE a part of what we are up against and you are just pretending not to know.

In fact, Trump is a businessman.. if our government was small and we lived in a free society, you couldn't pay Trump enough to become a politician. These are things you guys don't really think about or understand.

The reason I voted for Trump and am glad he beat Hillary is exactly what I have bolded. Trump is a powerful weapon against what I consider the #1 enemy of freedom, Marxists.

[nobody's_hero]

Seeing as we're getting ready to go into a Biden presidency, and it will therefore be prudent to find common ground with those on the left, I'm looking forward to policy changes that will bring about liberty by working with our friends on the left to get stuff repealed.

Most likely that means getting liberal voters to stand against the establishment DNC, as principled republicans have completely lost faith in theirs. I'm sure they're out there. Let's help them out.

I guess we've got um, lets see, Jimmy Dore and Tulsi Gabbard oops, she's done with politics. Oh and that Glenn Greenwald guy who was turned into a nobody by his own news outlet.

Let's hear it for our coalition.

[CaptUSA]

Seeing as we're getting ready to go into a Biden presidency, and it will therefore be prudent to find common ground with those on the left, I'm looking forward to policy changes that will bring about liberty by working with our friends on the left to get stuff repealed.

Most likely that means getting liberal voters to stand against the establishment DNC, as principled republicans have completely lost faith in theirs. I'm sure they're out there. Let's help them out.

I guess we've got um, lets see, Jimmy Dore and Tulsi Gabbard oops, she's done with politics. Oh and that Glenn Greenwald guy who was turned into a nobody by his own news outlet.

Let's hear it for our coalition.

Ironically, I wonder if we'll see them take a more open position to free trade. Historically, the left has been the party of controlled trade, but Trump sorta co-opted that policy. I guess the question becomes, did they really shift their thinking or was it just a show to oppose Trump?

[nobody's_hero]

Ironically, I wonder if we'll see them take a more open position to free trade. Historically, the left has been the party of controlled trade, but Trump sorta co-opted that policy. I guess the question becomes, did they really shift their thinking or was it just a show to oppose Trump?

Hmm. Free trade, possibly. I heard Hunter had been making sure we've got really good deals with other nations. Trips to China, Trips to Ukraine. Sadly he got disappeared for some reason. Hopefully we've got our Charles Schwab accounts set up and are ready to invest in the same companies for maximum free trade prosperity.

But more important than that, I'm thinking the anti-war leftists are going to be critical in the next 4 years. There's probably a dozen or so remaining and I can't wait until Biden gets up on stage and brags about not starting any new wars and the principled liberal crowd cheers him on as the principled conservatives did at the Trump rally I went to in Valdosta, Georgia (To be clear, I went solely for scientific purposes to find out just how deplorable his supporters were, and was disappointed to find that their deplorableness was deeply overstated).

Hearing republicans cheer military restraint was pretty damn surreal tho. Definitely not the party of Bush anymore, just as I'm sure the democrats are not the party of Clinton anymore. (disclaimer: all principled voting decisions ultimately subject to a promise of a $2,000 bribe stimulus in ads for US Senate seats)

(forgive me, the_Texan is rubbing off on me)

[CaptUSA]

Hmm. Free trade, possibly. I heard Hunter had been making sure we've got really good deals with other nations. Trips to China, Trips to Ukraine. Sadly he got disappeared for some reason. Hopefully we've got our Charles Schwab accounts set up and are ready to invest in the same companies for maximum free trade prosperity.

But more important than that, I'm thinking the anti-war leftists are going to be critical in the next 4 years. There's probably a dozen or so remaining and I can't wait until Biden gets up on stage and brags about not starting any new wars and the principled liberal crowd cheers him on as the principled conservatives did at the Trump rally I went to in Valdosta, Georgia (To be clear, I went solely for scientific purposes to find out just how deplorable his supporters were, and was disappointed to find that their deplorableness was deeply overstated).

Hearing republicans cheer military restraint was pretty damn surreal tho. Definitely not the party of Bush anymore, just as I'm sure the democrats are not the party of Clinton anymore.

(forgive me, the_Texan is rubbing off on me)

Yeah, you can never tell anymore. These people are not really known for the strict adherence to principles. Republicans had traditionally been opposed to foreign wars of adventurism, but that changed for 20-30 years there.

[nobody's_hero]

Yeah, you can never tell anymore. These people are not really known for the strict adherence to principles. Republicans had traditionally been opposed to foreign wars of adventurism, but that changed for 20-30 years there.

True. Do you suppose it could change back? I mean if we sit on our laurels and not nurture it while the GOP is out of power, then we'd have only ourselves to blame if the Bill Kristols in exile come rushing back into the party in 2024 or '28. Although I'm thinking DamianTV might be right when he says elections stopped mattering last November. Even if the average GOP voter doesn't want Kristolites back in their party, it's nothing an algorithm can't tidy up.

The basic premise of the thread is that I still see more opportunity to reach people in the GOP than the Democratic Party. I saw absolutely NO worthwhile effort to reach principled liberals in the 4 years that Trump was in office, even from people here who tell us that everyone is reachable and teachable. I sincerely believe that if these Sage Guardians of the Truth™ here on RPF actually spent just 10% of their effort trying to undermine the liberal establishment as they do trying to discredit and denounce anyone for trying to fight the GOP establishment, all those disgruntled Bernie supporters from the 2016 primary season would have burnt the DNC to the ground ages ago (not that I would have agreed with Bernie, but again, I would give anything to see just one democrat these days stand up to the establishment).

The good news is, with Biden in the presidency, and dems having complete control (I'm not counting the spineless RINOS on the SC, irrelevant branch of government at this point and Biden might as well pack 100 additional justices before it is over), there should be plenty of time for these principled liberals to get disillusioned with establishment corruption. --Not holding my breath.