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Thread: Chicago Gun Violence: 74 People Shot In Past Week As Temperatures Warm

  1. #1

    Chicago Gun Violence: 74 People Shot In Past Week As Temperatures Warm

    The city of Chicago had seen a large reduction in murders and shootings for the first four months of 2018, but as temperatures have increased, so has crime.

    The Chicago Police Department recorded that at least 74 people were shot in the country's third-largest city, with 28 of those shootings occurring between Friday evening and Sunday morning. Two men in their 20s were shot outside an East Garfield Park building just hours after two other people were shot on the exact same block Sunday, the Chicago Sun-Times reported. Police had previously been hopeful that gun violence was on a downward trend after seeing more than 1,400 total homicides between 2016 and 2017. The city's shooting victims are predominately on the city's south and west sides.
    hxxps://www.yahoo.com/news/chicago-gun-violence-74-people-182103689.html

    Does anyone care?

    David Hogg?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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  3. #2
    I would say most people don’t care.

    People care when the violence spreads out to schools, malls, etc..

    Speaking for myself only, I know I’m never going to Chicago. I didn’t cause the situations that fuel gang and ghetto violence. There’s nothing I can do to prevent future violence.

    But as a parent, it strikes a chord when kids are shot at a school. It becomes more personal then. All of a sudden I realize that the violence could happen to me/my family despite me doing everything I can to locate myself in a safe area.

    When thugs are getting killed by other thugs, it’s hard to spend a lot of time worrying about it. But when innocent children are getting killed it’s a different story.
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  4. #3
    Good points.

    I'd only say that not all who are shot are enveloped in a life of crime.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  5. #4
    24 hours in Chicago: 2 killed, 19 wounded in shootings, including 12-year-old boy, 2 women outside Mount Sinai


    Two men were killed and at least 19 people wounded in shootings in Chicago on Saturday and early Sunday, including a 12-year-old boy. Two women were shot outside Mount Sinai Hospital while waiting for news on a relative who was shot earlier in the day.

    The boy was critically injured and a 23-year-old man was wounded when a male shooter fired into a crowd around 9:20 p.m. Saturday in the West Side’s East Garfield Park neighborhood, police said.

    They were on a sidewalk in an apartment complex in the 3300 block of West Madison Street when the shooter fired a gun after arguing with a female.

    The boy was taken to Stroger in critical condition with a gunshot wound to the abdomen, and the man was stabilized at the same hospital with a wound in the arm.

    Another two people were shot at the same apartment complex several hours later, according to police.

    In that shooting, the men, 22 and 24, were coming out of a building in the complex on Madison when they heard gunfire and felt pain around 2 a.m. Sunday.

    The 24-year-old was taken to Stroger Hospital in critical condition with wounds to the chest and pelvis. The 22-year-old was shot in the buttocks and stabilized at Mount Sinai Hospital.

    The later shooting happened across the street from the earlier shooting in the Martin Luther King Jr. Plaza apartments.

    Earlier, two 35-year-old women were shot around 8 p.m. Saturday during a drive-by outside Mount Sinai Hospital in the 2700 block of West Ogden Avenue on the West Side.

    The assailants were inside a dark-colored car that pulled up and began firing — hitting both women in the lower body area, police said.

    Their conditions at Mount Sinai were not known immediately.

    At least two other gunshot victims, including a 25-year-old man shot and critically wounded in the 3700 block of West Roosevelt Road, were taken to Mount Sinai earlier Saturday.

    That man’s aunt, Amanda Morris, 47, was among the crowd of people who relocated to the hospital’s main entrance after the women were shot.

    She and about 20 other family members were waiting outside the hospital for several hours because her nephew was shot earlier in the day at the Roosevelt Road address, she said.

    The hospital would not let her group inside, so the people stood on the sidewalk along Ogden Avenue, Morris said.

    While the nephew was undergoing surgery, a car pulled up and began shooting into the group, she said.

    “Nothing but gunfire,” she said. “No words or nothing. They just pulled up and started shooting.”

    One of the women who was shot is the sister of the man who was taken there after the earlier shooting, Morris said.

    “We are still standing outside the hospital waiting to find out what’s going on with our families and loved ones,” Morris said. “What kind of city do we live in?”

    Earl Wilson, 56, said he was walking toward the hospital to pick up his cousin when he heard about 15 gunshots.

    He was standing outside the hospital’s main entrance, which appeared to be on lockdown, with about 30 other people.

    “They are not letting anyone inside,” he said.

    ...
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...505-story.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  6. #5
    Where's Alyssa Milano? I'm sure a few more gun laws will straighten this out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  7. #6
    I care. I drove semitruck deliveries through and to Chicago many times last year.

    As for the guns, they're probably all coming from Gary, IN.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    hxxps://www.yahoo.com/news/chicago-gun-violence-74-people-182103689.html

    Does anyone care?

    David Hogg?
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  9. #8
    I mean, don’t get me wrong, I do care. I wish all the senseless violence ends. But what worries me is when more and more school shooting occur. I don’t want fear to be a every day part of my childrens’ lives
    No - No - No - No
    2016



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    I mean, don’t get me wrong, I do care. I wish all the senseless violence ends. But what worries me is when more and more school shooting occur. I don’t want fear to be a every day part of my childrens’ lives
    Then get your kids out of the government indoctrination center.

    That's their primary job, to instill fear and dependency.

    Fact of the matter is that school shootings are at record lows, and the safest place you could be is in school and you are at much greater risk in the drive to school.

  12. #10
    The only murders we are supposed to care about are the "important" ones. You know, the murders that are plastered all over the television networks 24/7 until there is complete and total brain saturation to hundreds of millions of citizens. Once they accomplish that, they can twist and manipulate these citizens any which way to achieve unspoken, but yet, in your face goals of reducing gun and civil rights. Rinse and repeat when next chosen death(s) is covered.

    Chicago violence is inconvenient for this purpose and although the numbers far exceed all of the predetermined "important" events combined, covering gang and gun violence in areas that already have stringent gun laws is not an effective way to get people to buy into destroying gun rights. We can't have people waking up or catching onto this, so we just have to accept there will always be complete media blackout in the one area of the country that is in desperate need of intense focus, because these peoples' lives don't matter, only the lost lives that effectively get people like Hogg and Milano on there soap boxes.

  13. #11


    David Hogg has already gotten an invitation to St. Louis to address concerns about gun violence within the urban community.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    I mean, don’t get me wrong, I do care. I wish all the senseless violence ends. But what worries me is when more and more school shooting occur. I don’t want fear to be a every day part of my childrens’ lives
    School shootings are extremely rare- they just generate a lot more publicity.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Then get your kids out of the government indoctrination center.

    That's their primary job, to instill fear and dependency.

    Fact of the matter is that school shootings are at record lows, and the safest place you could be is in school and you are at much greater risk in the drive to school.
    Believe me, I would if I could, but it’s just not in the plans right now. We are thinking get the kids through elementary school, then once they are self sufficient, begin a homeschool program. Not every family can keep one parent home in today’s economy.

    I agree and already feel that way in regards to your last sentence. Understanding that school shootings are incredibly rare, we aren’t living in fear. But the question of the OP was who “cares” about the shootings in Chicago, to which I was responding with a comparison to something that I felt would give an appropriate level of contrast to illustrate my point.

    But you mentioned that these school shootings are at record lows- is that true? Honest question, I know media hypes these events up, but it seems that the frequency has increased. I may be wrong, I have no numbers in front of me...
    No - No - No - No
    2016

  16. #14
    Bicycles are much more deadly.

    Article in Mises in March of this year: https://mises.org/wire/there-are-few...w-during-1990s

    In response to the latest shooting in Florida, Northeastern University released a preview of new research by James Alan Fox slated for publication this fall which shows, quite clearly, that there is no growing trend in school shootings. The university notes:

    Mass school shootings are incredibly rare events. In research publishing later this year, Fox and doctoral student Emma Fridel found that on average, mass murders occur between 20 and 30 times per year, and about one of those incidents on average takes place at a school.

    Fridel and Fox used data collected by USA Today, the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Report, Congressional Research Service, Gun Violence Archive, Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries, Mother Jones, Everytown for Gun Safety, and a NYPD report on active shooters.

    Their research also finds that shooting incidents involving students have been declining since the 1990s.

    Four times the number of children were killed in schools in the early 1990s than today, Fox said.

    “There is not an epidemic of school shootings,” he said, adding that more kids are killed each year from pool drownings or bicycle accidents. There are around 55 million school children in the United States, and on average over the past 25 years, about 10 students per year were killed by gunfire at school, according to Fox and Fridel’s research.
    In a February 22 article, New York Magazine came to a similar conclusion, noting:

    Schools in the United States are safer today than at any time in recent memory. Criminal victimization in America’s education facilities has declined in tandem with the nation’s collapsing crime rate. Meanwhile, as of 2013, the year after the Newtown massacre, mass shootings accounted for only 1.5 percent of all gun deaths in the United States, or 502 total fatalities.
    More at link.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-07-2018 at 12:24 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    Believe me, I would if I could, but it’s just not in the plans right now. We are thinking get the kids through elementary school, then once they are self sufficient, begin a homeschool program. Not every family can keep one parent home in today’s economy.

    I agree and already feel that way in regards to your last sentence. Understanding that school shootings are incredibly rare, we aren’t living in fear. But the question of the OP was who “cares” about the shootings in Chicago, to which I was responding with a comparison to something that I felt would give an appropriate level of contrast to illustrate my point.

    But you mentioned that these school shootings are at record lows- is that true? Honest question, I know media hypes these events up, but it seems that the frequency has increased. I may be wrong, I have no numbers in front of me...
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  18. #16
    It really depends on who was shot and why..

    some of these might have been good things.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    hxxps://www.yahoo.com/news/chicago-gun-violence-74-people-182103689.html

    Does anyone care?

    David Hogg?
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Where's Alyssa Milano? I'm sure a few more gun laws will straighten this out.
    As it always is with Marxists, it's who does the shooting that is most important. Some animals are more equal then others.

    Plus it is hard for them to protest in cities and States where they have already had their successful revolution.
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  21. #18

  22. #19
    Somebody cares:
    U.S. Navy Medics Prepare For Combat By Treating Gunshot Victims In Chicago

    They wouldn't want to lose their training ground.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Somebody cares:
    U.S. Navy Medics Prepare For Combat By Treating Gunshot Victims In Chicago

    They wouldn't want to lose their training ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    ...
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    As it always is with Marxists, it's who does the shooting that is most important. Some animals are more equal then others.

    Plus it is hard for them to protest in cities and States where they have already had their successful revolution.
    I have seen some of these guys say that gun violence effects minorties more. I guess the implication is that racist white people want guns readily available to hurt POC.
    ...

  25. #22
    I suspect cops are selling the guns.

    Cicero cop shooting tied to gun Chicago P.D. should have destroyed

    Thirteen years ago, William Stewart Boyd, a Cook County judge, drove to a South Side church to turn in a handgun his late father had owned.

    The Chicago Police Department was accepting guns as part of a buyback program meant to take weapons off the streets and help make the city safer.

    Boyd, who hears domestic relations cases, brought them his father’s .38-caliber Smith & Wesson revolver, serial number J515268. He remembers handing it to plainclothes officers who wore their badges and service weapons on their belts. Under the buyback program, they, in turn, gave him a prepaid Visa card. It was for less than $100.

    The police recover thousands of guns every year, many of them through buyback programs like this, as well as by confiscating weapons seized during arrests — more than 5,000 guns so far this year alone.

    The guns are supposed to be destroyed. But the gun Judge Boyd took in somehow wasn’t. Instead, it turned up eight years later next to the body of a young man who was shot to death by a Cicero police officer.

    The cop — Officer Donald Garrity, who, records show, had a history of discipline problems — is now out of the suburban department and collecting a disability pension as a result of post-traumatic stress he blames on the shooting.

    How did a gun Chicago cops were supposed to have kept in a locked custody room and then destroyed end up all of those years later at the scene of a police shooting in Cicero, on a patch of pavement next to the body of a 22-year-old Latin Counts gang member named Cesar A. Munive?

    ...

    Police departments in Harvey, Elmwood Park and Dolton all have had guns vanish in recent years. And long before Boyd’s gun disappeared, a city audit found that the Chicago Police Department lost track of more than 130 guns that were stored at an evidence warehouse in the 1990s. Four of those later were seized during arrests.

    Now, the Chicago department has opened an internal affairs investigation into how the judge’s revolver ended up in Cicero — something police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi calls “extremely abnormal and troublesome.”

    ...
    https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/ci...ave-destroyed/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  26. #23
    Chicago sees its most violent week of the year: 9 killed, 76 wounded

    he last seven days in Chicago have been the most violent week of the year, with just three police districts on the West Side bearing the brunt, according to data kept by the Tribune.

    At least 85 people were shot between Monday, April 30, and this past Sunday, including a 4-year-old girl, a 12-year-old boy, a 15-year-old on a CTA bus, a young mother, several other young teens, a federal agent and two relatives of a gunshot victim waiting outside a hospital.

    Of those shot, at least nine died.

    The city had been averaging about 42 shootings each week this year, according to Tribune data. With last week’s shootings, the average rises to almost 45 people a week. The least violent period was the week of Feb. 5, when 16 people were shot in Chicago.

    Nearly half of those shot in the last week were hit by gunfire in three police districts that have long been troubled by violence: Harrison, Ogden and Austin.
    hxxp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-chicago-weekend-violence-20180507-story.html

    And of course this bears out for National statistics on gun crime as well. Violent neighborhoods of major US cities account for the majority of gun crime.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I care. I drove semitruck deliveries through and to Chicago many times last year.

    As for the guns, they're probably all coming from Gary, IN.
    That is where they have to get cigarettes from too .
    Do something Danke



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    That is where they have to get cigarettes from too .
    "Named for Elbert Gary of judiciary fame!"

    annnd dont forget fireworks!

    Gulag Chief:
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    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
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  30. #26
    A weekend of gun violence in Chicago left at least 12 people dead and 59 wounded.

    Three people were shot Friday evening, 14 were shot Saturday, 48 were shot Sunday and six were shot early Monday, capping off the weekend, which began 5 p.m. Friday and ended 5 a.m. Monday.

    The violence reached a peak Sunday, when 30 people were shot during a three-hour span between midnight and 3 a.m. Eight shooting incidents that morning had three or more victims. A single shooting in Gresham wounded eight people, including four teenage girls, as they stood in a courtyard.

    The influx of trauma patients at Stroger Hospital was so large Sunday morning, visitors of shooting victims were kept from entering, leaving them to congregate outside near a parking lot.

    ......

    Last weekend, five people killed and at least 38 were wounded in citywide shootings.

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/we...-gun-violence/
    Update: 1,785 shot this year in Chicago

    In Chicago, 1,785 people have been shot this year. That is 480 fewer than 2017.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/d...tmlstory.html#
    Very interesting link. A lot of information regarding shootings in Chicago. Most shootings and homicides are in two parts of town (South and West Side). It also has graphs analyzing the months that homicides are more likely to happen in (summer) and trends regarding shootings.

    Side Note:

    So... ~75,000 shootings come year end for total US.

    Some 2.38% of all shootings from one city. Now imagine the 50 most violent cities. Or the most violent city of each state. They represent the majority of shootings (and even still, within those cities, certain neighborhoods represent the majority of all gun violence), and David Hogg still has not gone to South Chicago or East St. Louis to address the tragedy of gun violence.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Update: 1,785 shot this year in Chicago


    Very interesting link. A lot of information regarding shootings in Chicago. Most shootings and homicides are in two parts of town (South and West Side).
    South side is right in the sh!t... "Hamsterdam" if you've ever watched the wire. Send that scrawny "Hog" into "Hamsterdam". They'd beat the living fk out of him, and take his shoes.

    The old death totals were being tracked here: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com Glad the trib has taken the baton - their site is more comprehensive. The city of chicago has really gone above and beyond to hide these numbers.

    You know, I'll bet Chicago is probably the single most dangerous place in the first world - I'm sure it must rival Glasgow at this point. All that death, a ~30% arrest rate, and nearly all of them are of black ethnicity. If you ask the alderman and the IL Black Caucus, they'll tell you "A brother has no business carrying a gun". Who's the racist?

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    South side is right in the sh!t... "Hamsterdam" if you've ever watched the wire. Send that scrawny "Hog" into "Hamsterdam". They'd beat the living fk out of him, and take his shoes.

    The old death totals were being tracked here: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com Glad the trib has taken the baton - their site is more comprehensive. The city of chicago has really gone above and beyond to hide these numbers.

    You know, I'll bet Chicago is probably the single most dangerous place in the first world - I'm sure it must rival Glasgow at this point. All that death, a ~30% arrest rate, and nearly all of them are of black ethnicity. If you ask the alderman and the IL Black Caucus, they'll tell you "A brother has no business carrying a gun". Who's the racist?
    And what's worse is that Chicago, while bad, is only a mirror of other metropolitan areas.

    Baltimore, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Miami, Phoenix, Detroit, Minneapolis, Albuquerque, San Diego, Hartford, Flint... the list is endless. And then when you start to look at it in depth, what is the common denominator? Cancerous government intervention and government/mob controlled rackets.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by brushfire View Post
    South side is right in the sh!t... "Hamsterdam" if you've ever watched the wire. Send that scrawny "Hog" into "Hamsterdam". They'd beat the living fk out of him, and take his shoes.

    The old death totals were being tracked here: http://homicides.redeyechicago.com Glad the trib has taken the baton - their site is more comprehensive. The city of chicago has really gone above and beyond to hide these numbers.

    You know, I'll bet Chicago is probably the single most dangerous place in the first world - I'm sure it must rival Glasgow at this point. All that death, a ~30% arrest rate, and nearly all of them are of black ethnicity. If you ask the alderman and the IL Black Caucus, they'll tell you "A brother has no business carrying a gun". Who's the racist?
    Should Chicago still be considered part of the first world?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    I guess its easy livin in chi-town... At least over the last 5 years. I wonder what the shorter term looks like?



    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/201.../#728ea2f5a475

    Gulag Chief:
    "Article 58-1a, twenty five years... What did you get it for?"
    Gulag Prisoner: "For nothing at all."
    Gulag Chief: "You're lying... The sentence for nothing at all is 10 years"



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