Where do we go from here.........

[phill4paul]

It seems on this forums we got jack $#@!. We coalesced around Ron and damned if we didn't do great $#@! only to be shut down by the RNC.

And this forum is a shell of what it was.

Most that participated feel the nomination was stolen, it was, and therefore $#@! it.

I get it.

And though our influence is a drop in the pan at one point we brought Ron to the for front.

So how about we find one individual. Not for POTUS but at least for Senate.

Can we find that individual and make it happen at least as close?

Just $#@!ing one.

[sparebulb]

I suppose that the smartest thing we can do is rally around those who are in office already like Massie and Rand.

But know that there is not much chance of reforming the system from the top-down.

From bottom-up, try to find and support decent people to run for school boards, city councils, and county positions.

Easier said than done, I know.

I live in rural Missouri and the good old, salt of the earth people would rather have big government fascist/commie R's and D's in office than take a chance on real liberty and independence.

[TheTexan]

Fed Gov is a lost cause, short of a 1776 type situation.

Focus on your local governments, secession specifically.

If you're in Texas, get Abbott the $#@! out.

If you're an idealist and the above isn't good enough for you, then start a FSP type project.

[cjm]

My local politics are hopeless. Dems get a minimum of 65% here. Much more in presidential election years. If there's a stellar candidate out there ( @Anti Federalist; suggested he might run once), I'll do what I can from Virginia -- at least money and phone banking.

Stellar local candidates notwithstanding. I think November @phill4paul; needs to talk to July phill4paul.

[Anti Federalist]

My local politics are hopeless. Dems get a minimum of 65% here. Much more in presidential election years. If there's a stellar candidate out there ( @Anti Federalist; suggested he might run once), I'll do what I can from Virginia -- at least money and phone banking.

Stellar local candidates notwithstanding. I think November @phill4paul; needs to talk to July phill4paul.

Right now my guys are locked in the NH House and Senate.

If one of them steps down, I'll use Shem Kellog's model and run for that office.

It's a deep red district in a deep red county.

[Brian4Liberty]

There were 13 GOP House members and 19 GOP Senators that voted for the Infrastructure grab bag of crony pork and leftist legislation.

Every single one of them needs to be primaried. We just need to find good candidates.

[69360]

There is nowhere left to go. Country is $#@!ed. Worry about yourself and take all you can back from the government. That is my plan.

[Bryan]

Good thread, no easy answers, I analyze the issue and options often. My thoughts....

-Agree to take care of home first.
- Agree to support Massie and Rand. Massie is doing amazing and getting lots of great support.
- Agree that electoral politics is a dicey game. Easy to dump in too much for low return. If anything, get behind the right person who has legitimate momentum. Or go the lost cost route, per stated Shem plan.
- Education campaigns is best default.

[Bryan]

Related, Massie recently seeked input on a conceptual new "Contract with America" for the GOP in 2022, let's see if he drive something.

Some thoughts...

[tod evans]

One simple idea;

Smaller government every year.

Less people, less laws/regulations, less spending.

The more government is reduced the greater the effect on every day people.

[fisharmor]

- Agree to support Massie and Rand. Massie is doing amazing and getting lots of great support.

Dude, I'm sorry but it's an open discussion and you just couldn't leave the elephant alone.

This movement ended on 7 June 2012 when Rand endorsed Romney. I'm not going to get in the circular firing squad of whether Ron was still in the race (despite the fact that he was) but you have to face the fact that we are a group of people who pride ourselves on not being the average voting goldfish and we actually remember things.

We are not going to forget that. We're not going to forget that his 17 hour filibuster condensed to "you can't drone strike citizens unless you filled out some paperwork".

It's true that he's doing great things with Fauci right now but that puts him roughly on par with Ted Cruz going after Garland.

Rand is not who you say he is no matter how many times you say it and we are absolutely not supporting him to the degree you wish. Rand was the golden child who was set up to inherit everything and he kicked it - and us - to the curb. He's doing fine without us so we're moving on.

[fisharmor]

To answer the question, though, if you aren't aware what's going on in the Libertarian Party, there is a Mises Caucus which is supporting a woman named Angela McArdle taking the chairmanship of the entire party. They hope to turn it around and make it a home for Ron Paul supporters.
Look into it.

[TheTexan]

Rand is not who you say he is no matter how many times you say it and we are absolutely not supporting him to the degree you wish. Rand was the golden child who was set up to inherit everything and he kicked it - and us - to the curb. He's doing fine without us so we're moving on.

Rand like most people (besides me, and maybe Ron) is not perfect.

If however we had 100 Rand's in the Senate and 400 Rand's in the House and a Rand in the Oval.... the country would be in really $#@!ing great shape don't ya think?

Can't really say that for Ted Cruz, or anyone else in the Senate.

[cjm]

To answer the question, though, if you aren't aware what's going on in the Libertarian Party, there is a Mises Caucus which is supporting a woman named Angela McArdle taking the chairmanship of the entire party. They hope to turn it around and make it a home for Ron Paul supporters.
Look into it.

I first heard of her on the Tom Woods 2000th episode. She seems fun and not crazy. I'd certainly give the LP another look. I'm technically a life member but started working with the GOP in 2010. Since 2016, I've been "retired" from electoral politics.

[TheTexan]

To answer the question, though, if you aren't aware what's going on in the Libertarian Party, there is a Mises Caucus which is supporting a woman named Angela McArdle taking the chairmanship of the entire party. They hope to turn it around and make it a home for Ron Paul supporters.
Look into it.

They hope to turn it around and make it a home for Ron Paul supporters.

In other words, they plan to make it even less politically relevant than it already is? Not trying to be a dick - I just don't get it.

Is the intention for it to be a social group for Ron Paul people to hang out and shoot the $#@! occasionally? Because that does actually make sense... though you don't really need to be a political party to do that.

[TheTexan]

One simple idea;

Smaller government every year.

Less people, less laws/regulations, less spending.

The more government is reduced the greater the effect on every day people.

Less people. Hm. I like that idea

[fisharmor]

In other words, they plan to make it even less politically relevant than it already is? Not trying to be a dick - I just don't get it.

Is the intention for it to be a social group for Ron Paul people to hang out and shoot the $#@! occasionally? Because that does actually make sense... though you don't really need to be a political party to do that.

The LP isn't politically relevant because it's been a niche that nobody wants to be in and the LPMC seems to realize that.

Last month I went to a free talk on the "Take Human Action Tour" hosted by the LPMC.

I heard Maj Toure talk about how to talk to inner city people about gun rights.

I got to hear Michael Boldin from the 10th Amendment center talk and if you haven't heard him before, holy cow that guy is on fire. He very nearly got a local resolution passed in California that would have turned off the power and water to the FBI building there.

Michael Rechtenwald talked about how he was a hardcore socialist who turned to libertarianism, and he told us about decentralized networks that people in the LPMC are setting up, particularly the Mises Mesh Network, which is intended to be an ecosystem where other liberty groups can organize.

Daniel McAdams spoke there. Is that enough to convince you it's a spiritual successor of the Revolution?

Tom Woods gave the keynote and it was on secession.

The impression I got from the group was that there are a lot of organizers and volunteers working to do with the LP what WOULD have happened in the Republican Party if Rand hadn't kicked us in the collective nuts. I don't know about you but I think taking over that group and making them stop saying idiotic things like "I think you should just bake the cake" and start replacing those things with sound bites like "End the Fed" shows some promise.

[TheTexan]

Michael Rechtenwald talked about how he was a hardcore socialist who turned to libertarianism, and he told us about decentralized networks that people in the LPMC are setting up, particularly the Mises Mesh Network, which is intended to be an ecosystem where other liberty groups can organize.

Sounds interesting. I don't suppose you have any links? Came up empty handed with search

[fisharmor]

Sounds interesting. I don't suppose you have any links? Came up empty handed with search

]It was a live thing. Woods did a podcast a couple weeks ago where he just put up his keynote.


I also am coming up blank when I search on Mises Mesh Network.
@Occam's Banana seems way more involved with LPMC - wanna jump in here?

[Occam's Banana]

To answer the question, though, if you aren't aware what's going on in the Libertarian Party, there is a Mises Caucus which is supporting a woman named Angela McArdle taking the chairmanship of the entire party. They hope to turn it around and make it a home for Ron Paul supporters.
Look into it.

Here are a couple of relevant threads:

Mises Caucus Coup D’Etat

Support the Mises Caucus

The LP isn't politically relevant because it's been a niche that nobody wants to be in and the LPMC seems to realize that.

Last month I went to a free talk on the "Take Human Action Tour" hosted by the LPMC.

I heard Maj Toure talk about how to talk to inner city people about gun rights.

I got to hear Michael Boldin from the 10th Amendment center talk and if you haven't heard him before, holy cow that guy is on fire. He very nearly got a local resolution passed in California that would have turned off the power and water to the FBI building there.

Michael Rechtenwald talked about how he was a hardcore socialist who turned to libertarianism, and he told us about decentralized networks that people in the LPMC are setting up, particularly the Mises Mesh Network, which is intended to be an ecosystem where other liberty groups can organize.

Daniel McAdams spoke there. Is that enough to convince you it's a spiritual successor of the Revolution?

Tom Woods gave the keynote and it was on secession.

The impression I got from the group was that there are a lot of organizers and volunteers working to do with the LP what WOULD have happened in the Republican Party if Rand hadn't kicked us in the collective nuts. I don't know about you but I think taking over that group and making them stop saying idiotic things like "I think you should just bake the cake" and start replacing those things with sound bites like "End the Fed" shows some promise.

The Mises Caucus is trying to take over the LP and make it a vehicle for continuing the Ron Paul Revolution - and they have the blessing of Ron Paul himself.

And ironically, they're getting the same kind of pushback and shenanigans from the LP establishment that Ron Paul supporters got from the Republicans - denunciations from "woke" leftarians and "libertarian socialists", resistance and dirty tricks from the "big fish in a little pond" types, and so forth. (I might start a thread cataloging these if there is enough interest and I can find the time.)

[Brian4Liberty]

...
This movement ended on 7 June 2012 when Rand endorsed Romney.
...
We are not going to forget that. We're not going to forget that his 17 hour filibuster condensed to "you can't drone strike citizens unless you filled out some paperwork".

It's true that he's doing great things with Fauci right now but that puts him roughly on par with Ted Cruz going after Garland.

Rand is not who you say he is no matter how many times you say it and we are absolutely not supporting him to the degree you wish. Rand was the golden child who was set up to inherit everything and he kicked it - and us - to the curb. He's doing fine without us so we're moving on.

You use “we” and “us” when you are talking about yourself. Many people here still support Rand, especially in the Rand Paul Forum. He is easily one of the best in Congress. You are free to your own opinion, and we have beaten this dead horse before. If Rand hasn't done exactly what you wanted him to in every instance, then you are free to not participate in any support of him. Nobody is perfect.

Rand like most people (besides me, and maybe Ron) is not perfect.

If however we had 100 Rand's in the Senate and 400 Rand's in the House and a Rand in the Oval.... the country would be in really $#@!ing great shape don't ya think?
...

Similar to Rand would be good. For some reason, hundreds of identical clones running the nation is disturbing (even though the vast majority already are ideological clones, controlled by the same special interests.)

[Brian4Liberty]

Here are a couple of relevant threads:

Mises Caucus Coup D’Etat

Support the Mises Caucus

The Mises Caucus is trying to take over the LP and make it a vehicle for continuing the Ron Paul Revolution.

And ironically, they're getting the same kind of pushback and shenanigans from the LP establishment that Ron Paul supporters got from the Republicans - denunciations from "woke" leftarians and "libertarian socialists", resistance and dirty tricks from the "big fish in a little pond" types, and so forth. (I might start a thread cataloging these if there is enough interest and I can find the time.)

I can only speak for myself, but I support this effort!

[Invisible Man]

Related, Massie recently seeked input on a conceptual new "Contract with America" for the GOP in 2022, let's see if he drive something.

Some thoughts...

Here are a couple that shouldn't even be controversial. But for the DC establishment they'll be downright radical. If the GOP commits to these, not only will it win them big points with voters across the political spectrum, but it will put them on the hot seat to have to follow through:
1. No votes on any bills or amendments until the public has had time to read them in their entirety.
2. No votes on bills that include anything outside of the scope of the one issue the bill is for.

[Occam's Banana]

]I also am coming up blank when I search on Mises Mesh Network.
@Occam's Banana seems way more involved with LPMC - wanna jump in here?

Ask and ye shall receive: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post7070579

ETA: The Mises Mesh Network was actually talked about by Michael Hesse (the emcee of the event and a co-founder of the Mises Caucus). He described it during his follow-up to a question for Rechtenwald. His remarks are at the 31:10 mark in the Rechtenwald video in the post I linked to.

[CaptUSA]

The Mises Caucus is trying to take over the LP and make it a vehicle for continuing the Ron Paul Revolution

That's great and I wish them the best of luck. I left the LP in the '90's because of all of the infighting and weird power struggles. Words like "take over" and the division into smaller and smaller caucuses cause me concern. I've said it before that the LP party organization is still an organization, subject to organizational flaws and drama.

I think it's really going to take a unifying figure, or at least a unifying message, to come out of that muck.

One of the best things about Ron Paul was that he packaged liberty as a whole - something that everyone could get behind. The LP, for as long as I can remember, has been focused on one brand of liberty or another. And then, when one brand gains the reins, the supporters of the other brands get angry and drop their support.

If the Mises Caucus "takes over", it'll just splinter off support; but if they can find a unifying message that can be accepted by the other factions, it could be good for all.

Where is Robert the Bruce to unite the clans??

[ClaytonB]

Poor, wretched, and stupid peoples, nations determined on your own misfortune and blind to your own good! You let yourselves be deprived before your own eyes of the best part of your revenues; your fields are plundered, your homes robbed, your family heirlooms taken away. You live in such a way that you cannot claim a single thing as your own; and it would seem that you consider yourselves lucky to be loaned your property, your families, and your very lives.

All this havoc, this misfortune, this ruin, descends upon you not from alien foes, but from the one enemy whom you yourselves render as powerful as he is, for whom you go bravely to war, for whose greatness you do not refuse to offer your own bodies unto death. He who thus domineers over you has only two eyes, only two hands, only one body, no more than is possessed by the least man among the infinite numbers dwelling in your cities; he has indeed nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you.

Where has he acquired enough eyes to spy upon you if you do not provide them yourselves? How can he have so many arms to beat you with if he does not borrow them from you? The feet that trample down your cities, where does he get them if they are not your own? How does he have any power over you except through you? How would he dare assail you if he had not cooperation from you? What could he do to you if you yourselves did not connive with the thief who plunders you, if you were not accomplices of the murderer who kills you, if you were not traitors to yourselves?

You sow your crops in order that he may ravage them; you install and furnish your homes to give him goods to pillage; you rear your daughters that he may gratify his lust; you bring up your children in order that he may confer upon them the greatest privilege he knows — to be led into his battles, to be delivered to butchery, to be made the servants of his greed and the instruments of his vengeance; you yield your bodies unto hard labor in order that he may indulge in his delights and wallow in his filthy pleasures; you weaken yourselves in order to make him the stronger and the mightier to hold you in check. From all these indignities, such as the very beasts of the field would not endure, you can deliver yourselves if you try, not by taking action, but merely by willing to be free.

Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces.

(Etienne de la Boetie, The Politics of Obedience)

Secession and the Production of Defense -Jörg Guido Hülsmann
[Chapter 11 of The Myth of National Defense: Essays on the Theory and History of Security Production, edited by Hans-Hermann Hoppe (Auburn, Ala.: Mises Institute, 2003), pp. 369–413.]

In particular, read about "originary secession" in this article...

[fisharmor]

You use “we” and “us” when you are talking about yourself.

I had understood the question to be "where do we who participated in the Revolution go from here".
What's he doing or asking us to do that is in any way comparable to what was going on 10 years ago?
I'm not $#@!-stirring here : I genuinely want to know what it is that recommends him as the new "Robert the Bruce".

[Occam's Banana]

That's great and I wish them the best of luck. I left the LP in the '90's because of all of the infighting and weird power struggles. Words like "take over" and the division into smaller and smaller caucuses cause me concern. I've said it before that the LP party organization is still an organization, subject to organizational flaws and drama.

I think it's really going to take a unifying figure, or at least a unifying message, to come out of that muck.

One of the best things about Ron Paul was that he packaged liberty as a whole - something that everyone could get behind. The LP, for as long as I can remember, has been focused on one brand of liberty or another. And then, when one brand gains the reins, the supporters of the other brands get angry and drop their support.

If the Mises Caucus "takes over", it'll just splinter off support; but if they can find a unifying message that can be accepted by the other factions, it could be good for all.

Where is Robert the Bruce to unite the clans??

I quit the LP in the '90s, too, and for much the same reason (the Perry Willis scandal was the straw that broke my camel's back).

The situation now. though, is very different from (and much more dire than) the situation in the '90s.

The Libertarian Party is just a subset of libertarians. The majority of libertarians never have been and never will be members. And there's nothing wrong with that. But for better or worse, the Libertarian Party is one of the chief "public faces" of libertarianism, and given the present situation, we simply cannot afford to allow such a venue to be run by leftarians, self-styled "libertarian socialists", and the likes of those who are intent on pandering to and seeking to win a never-to-be-granted acceptance from SJWs and progressives. These are not the kind of people who should (or even can) be "unified" with:

(They were routed by the "goons" in a clean sweep, by the way. The Mises Caucus won every elected position and now controls the Nevada state party.)

Given the opportunities afforded by COVID tyranny, rampant wokeness, regnant inflation, looming economic disaster, etc., the lackadaisical, milquetoast, Gary-Johnson-esque messaging and bland appeals to the "lowest common denominator" historically favored by the LP are simply unconscionable. The Ron Paul Revolution has been slowly fizzling out ever since 2012, and if someone doesn't actually do something about it, it's apt to die once and for all, without even a whimper. The Mises Caucus is resolved to prevent that from happening, and whatever its chances may be, with members and spokesmen like Tom Woods, Scott Horton, Michael Boldin, and Dave Smith, those chances are at least as good as any other opportunity we have available.

In other words, the Ron Paul Revolution needs to "take over" the LP, and if the other factions and caucuses can't accept and come to terms with that, then they are useless ballast that should be dumped - and good riddance! The LP needs to stop being a philosopher-heavy social club for do-nothings who want to jealously guard their "big fish in a little pond" status, and it needs to start being an active vehicle for keeping the ideas and ideals of the Ron Paul Revolution alive. Everyone should be welcome in the party - except those who wish to obstruct or interfere with that purpose. And if that means a smaller[1] and more focused Libertarian Party ... well, then, so much the better.



[1] And it doesn't necessarily mean that at all. In fact, it seems that quite the opposite is the case. One of the reasons the Nevada "takeover" was so successful was that so many new people joined the Nevada LP via the Mises Caucus, as a direct result of the obnoxiousness of the Nevada party establishment. This lesson was well-learned by the Pennsylvania party's establishment when later, at their own state convention, they had to pull shenanigans in order to prevent the Mises Caucus from "taking over" there, as well. After crowing proudly about all the new members who joined the PA state party (as a result of the Mises Caucus' recruitment efforts, no less), they had the gall to then prevent those new members from voting at the state convention (contrary to long-established custom), thereby forestalling their doom until next year's convention.

[TheTexan]

I quit the LP in the '90s, too, and for much the same reason (the Perry Willis scandal was the straw that broke my camel's back).

The situation now. though, is very different from (and much more dire than) the situation in the '90s.

The Libertarian Party is just a subset of libertarians. The majority of libertarians never have been and never will be members. And there's nothing wrong with that. But for better or worse, the Libertarian Party is one of the chief "public faces" of libertarianism, and given the present situation, we simply cannot afford to allow such a venue to be run by leftarians, self-styled "libertarian socialists", and the likes of those who are intent on pandering to and seeking to win a never-to-be-granted acceptance from SJWs and progressives. These are not the kind of people who should (or even can) be "unified" with:

(They were routed by the "goons" in a clean sweep, by the way. The Mises Caucus won every elected position and now controls the Nevada state party.)

Given the opportunities afforded by COVID tyranny, rampant wokeness, regnant inflation, looming economic disaster, etc., the lackadaisical, milquetoast, Gary-Johnson-esque messaging and bland appeals to the "lowest common denominator" historically favored by the LP are simply unconscionable. The Ron Paul Revolution has been slowly fizzling out ever since 2012, and if someone doesn't actually do something about it, it's apt to die once and for all, without even a whimper. The Mises Caucus is resolved to prevent that from happening, and whatever its chances may be, with members and spokesmen like Tom Woods, Scott Horton, Michael Boldin, and Dave Smith, those chances are at least as good as any other opportunity we have available.

In other words, the Ron Paul Revolution needs to "take over" the LP, and if the other factions and caucuses can't accept and come to terms with that, then they are useless ballast that should be dumped - and good riddance! The LP needs to stop being a philosopher-heavy social club for do-nothings who want to jealously guard their "big fish in a little pond" status, and it needs to start being an active vehicle for keeping the ideas and ideals of the Ron Paul Revolution alive. Everyone should be welcome in the party - except those who wish to obstruct or interfere with that purpose. And if that means a smaller[1] and more focused Libertarian Party ... well, then, so much the better.



[1] And it doesn't necessarily mean that at all. In fact, it seems that quite the opposite is the case. One of the reasons the Nevada "takeover" was so successful was that so many new people joined the Nevada LP via the Mises Caucus, as a direct result of the obnoxiousness of the Nevada party establishment. This lesson was well-learned by the Pennsylvania party's establishment when later, at their own state convention, they had to pull shenanigans in order to prevent the Mises Caucus from "taking over" there, as well. After crowing proudly about all the new members who joined the PA state party (as a result of the Mises Caucus' recruitment efforts, no less), they had the gall to then prevent those new members from voting at the state convention (contrary to long-established custom), thereby forestalling their doom until next year's convention.

If nothing else, the Mises Caucus provides a means of organizing a group of people who are generally resistant to being organized.

And getting organized is the first step to getting anything done.

[Invisible Man]

It seems likely to me that Massie will be running for something higher than House of Representatives some time in the not too distant future.

Maybe not as soon as 2022, or even 2024. But I can see it happening not long after that.

There's a chance McConnell won't run again in 2026 (not a certainty, since at the age of 84 he won't be remarkably old for a US Senator, but still old enough that he may opt not to put in another 6 years after that). If that seat does open up, Massie will have a real chance to take it, and he'll need help overcoming establishment opposition that will undoubtedly be better prepared for his run than they were for Rand's first one.