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Thread: Bill Kristol admits Ron (and Rand) Paul supporters are the future of the GOP

  1. #1

    Bill Kristol admits Ron (and Rand) Paul supporters are the future of the GOP




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  3. #2
    He didn't quite "admit it" but it's clear they understand now they aren't going anywhere without us.

    The battle for the party has just started, and I think ultimately Rand's presentation is going to attract a lot of the mainstream voters that these NeoCons have taken for granted.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  4. #3
    Interesting. My mother called me and told me she heard a similar conversation on the radio. (Republicans saying "Maybe we compromise on social issues like abortion" and saying "Ron Paul" in the same breath.) Here's the irony. Ron Paul is rock solid on conservative social issues! It's harder to get more "pro life" than Ron Paul without going crazy like Santorum. It's the wars stupid! (I'm glad someone brought up the foreign policy issue). It's also civil liberties. Does who can marry who even resonate in a country where American citizens can be detained without trial or even extra-judicially killed? Does your marital status even matter if you are illegally detained or on a kill list?
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    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    The battle for the party has just started, and I think ultimately Rand's presentation is going to attract a lot of the mainstream voters that these NeoCons have taken for granted.
    Rand is also going to win over a lot of people that knew Ron was right but were emotionally invested in being opposed to him.

  6. #5
    Kristol also wants amnesty and tax raises.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Rand is also going to win over a lot of people that knew Ron was right but were emotionally invested in being opposed to him.
    Yes the "I like Ron Paul's domestic policy, but his foreign policy is scary" and "Rand is great, but his father is crazy" crowd.

  8. #7
    "They also are not fond of occupying war, and they are in support of the old Republican way of less foreign entanglement."

    Based on the idea of natural rights, government secures those rights to the individual by strictly negative intervention, making justice costless and easy of access; and beyond that it does not go. The State, on the other hand, both in its genesis and by its primary intention, is purely anti-social. It is not based on the idea of natural rights, but on the idea that the individual has no rights except those that the State may provisionally grant him. It has always made justice costly and difficult of access, and has invariably held itself above justice and common morality whenever it could advantage itself by so doing.
    --Albert J. Nock

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Rand is also going to win over a lot of people that knew Ron was right but were emotionally invested in being opposed to him.
    This is a great point. There were far too many people - GOP primary voters - who absorbed the lies about Ron Paul being a "racist anti-Semite who hates our troops" and never bothered to discover the truth of the matter. Rand is starting without that handicap, since they've been hearing guys like Shamity praising him for all these years.
    “Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?” - Oxenstiern

    Violence will not save us. Let us love one another, for love is from God.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    "They also are not fond of occupying war, and they are in support of the old Republican way of less foreign entanglement."

    Nonsense; the GOP has always been in favor of war with Eastasia
    “Do you not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?” - Oxenstiern

    Violence will not save us. Let us love one another, for love is from God.

  12. #10
    The most significant thing about the Tea Party is it's leaderless? Rand Paul is more respectable than his father? Republicans should be concerned that Bill Kristol 'won't like' peace? Something about imperialism is working so well that we should be concerned that peace is '...the old Republican way'?

    The neocons seem to be feeling the Reaper. Thank God.

    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Rand is also going to win over a lot of people that knew Ron was right but were emotionally invested in being opposed to him.
    And the majority of these are going to be independents and disaffected Democrats. The more Rand makes the right noises to win over Republicans, the more everyone else is going to have a knee jerk reaction against him. But you can't have a huge federal government and destroy corporatism. That handwriting is on the wall. I don't know what more proof an anti-corporatist could possibly need than what we have before us that Thomas Jefferson was right when he said that a strong central U.S. government would be, '...the most corrupt government on the face of the Earth.'

    Quote Originally Posted by Inkblots View Post
    Nonsense; the GOP has always been in favor of war with Eastasia
    And thank God some of us will deny the Memory Hole version of events to our dying breaths.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-12-2012 at 03:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Interesting. My mother called me and told me she heard a similar conversation on the radio. (Republicans saying "Maybe we compromise on social issues like abortion" and saying "Ron Paul" in the same breath.) Here's the irony. Ron Paul is rock solid on conservative social issues! It's harder to get more "pro life" than Ron Paul without going crazy like Santorum. It's the wars stupid! (I'm glad someone brought up the foreign policy issue). It's also civil liberties. Does who can marry who even resonate in a country where American citizens can be detained without trial or even extra-judicially killed? Does your marital status even matter if you are illegally detained or on a kill list?
    On the other hand I gather Ron is the type of person who would allow social issues to be dealt with on the state level...

    You don't have to be pro-life or pro-choice to recognize that each state should be allowed to deal with those types of issues in their own way.

    This is why I never bother arguing about social positions on these boards... if we just followed the 10th amendment and allowed the states the right to choose none of us would we have a right to complain or argue about anything outside the state level.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  14. #12
    Rand is the future. They know it. They can't stop it.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Rand is the future. They know it. They can't stop it.
    The last week was spent in the 6 stages of grief...

    They're closing in on acceptance.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  16. #14
    These people just don't understand. To them it's a game to be won. Victory means power. What they are really not getting is the fact that they have been rendered obsolete. The Republican Party isn't licking it's wounds. The Republican Party is dead and these guys killed it with their Neo-Conservative agenda. In other words, Communists infiltrated the Democratic Party decades ago, and now they infiltrated and suicided the Republican Party. And we are left with a one party system.

    When there is only one faction to vote for, how can you resist tyranny by voting? I'm just finding it harder and harder to buy into the whole concept of political action. Politics is always decades behind the people, so why not be on the front lines? Ron Paul didn't change the world by voting 'no' time and again. He changed it by talking with people and debating people. But as we saw approaching the end of the 2012 campaign, that pulpit can be silenced.

    Someone please convince me that I am wrong and that the world can be changed through casting a vote. After 236 years of voting, we are all on the brink of disaster.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate-ForLiberty View Post
    These people just don't understand. To them it's a game to be won. Victory means power. What they are really not getting is the fact that they have been rendered obsolete. The Republican Party isn't licking it's wounds. The Republican Party is dead and these guys killed it with their Neo-Conservative agenda. In other words, Communists infiltrated the Democratic Party decades ago, and now they infiltrated and suicided the Republican Party. And we are left with a one party system.

    When there is only one faction to vote for, how can you resist tyranny by voting? I'm just finding it harder and harder to buy into the whole concept of political action. Politics is always decades behind the people, so why not be on the front lines? Ron Paul didn't change the world by voting 'no' time and again. He changed it by talking with people and debating people. But as we saw approaching the end of the 2012 campaign, that pulpit can be silenced.

    Someone please convince me that I am wrong and that the world can be changed through casting a vote. After 236 years of voting, we are all on the brink of disaster.
    My response to that would be... true conservatism is due for a win.

    Now is not the time to stop.
    It's just an opinion... man...

  18. #16
    +Rep

    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Interesting. My mother called me and told me she heard a similar conversation on the radio. (Republicans saying "Maybe we compromise on social issues like abortion" and saying "Ron Paul" in the same breath.) Here's the irony. Ron Paul is rock solid on conservative social issues! It's harder to get more "pro life" than Ron Paul without going crazy like Santorum. It's the wars stupid! (I'm glad someone brought up the foreign policy issue). It's also civil liberties. Does who can marry who even resonate in a country where American citizens can be detained without trial or even extra-judicially killed? Does your marital status even matter if you are illegally detained or on a kill list?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Inkblots View Post
    This is a great point. There were far too many people - GOP primary voters - who absorbed the lies about Ron Paul being a "racist anti-Semite who hates our troops" and never bothered to discover the truth of the matter. Rand is starting without that handicap, since they've been hearing guys like Shamity praising him for all these years.
    And with the likely direction of this economy, there will be increasing buyer's remorse for not having selected Ron Paul, or at least his policy platform. The "he was right" mantra will accrue to Rand.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    And with the likely direction of this economy, there will be increasing buyer's remorse for not having selected Ron Paul, or at least his policy platform. The "he was right" mantra will accrue to Rand.
    All of it, including the warmongering. 'Peace and prosperity' may be an antiquated notion. But a lot of Republicans are pretty antiquated, too. So, they will remember.

    Let's just hope that this 'buyer's remorse' leads them to turn off Fox. It would help if we were to start up something to compete with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  22. #19
    FOX News -We Report Somethings Sometimes -and You Decide. Sometimes We Report Somethings After You Decide.

    EDIT: I'm sharing that vid with all of the surprised Romney voters who liked to repeat the Fox "strategies" and who are looking to place blame. Playing up the fact that Fox news reports the libertatian influence AFTER Romney lost. Thanks for the vid + rep.
    Last edited by bunklocoempire; 11-12-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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  23. #20
    My only concern is the people who pay just enough attention to be complete idiots. The ones that will hear "Rand Paul" and 'think' (I use that term loosely) it's "Ron Paul" again. These are the same morons that thought we were talking about "RuPaul" in 2008 whenever Ron was mentioned. If only Rand's name was "Andrew Paul" or something distinctly different to ensure no possible confusion. This probably sounds crazy but from a marketing perspective it concerns me.

  24. #21
    Admits?? Is Bill Kristol known for accurate predictions?

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    My response to that would be... true conservatism is due for a win.

    Now is not the time to stop.
    I understand. But I would argue that true conservatism can't win all of the time, and has only won a very small number of times. And when it did win, it still wasn't even close to being enough. Also, I didn't say 'stop'. What I mean to say is to 'change tactics'. To reiterate, politics follows public opinion, not the other way around. We've seen politicians in the last 4 years change what they say and on the very rare occasion, what they do. Wouldn't it be prudent and more efficient to change tactics?

  26. #23
    Lol... this clip was delicious. How'd they get away with saying all this without someone in the earpiece telling them to stop?

    Someone must have been on vacation.
    "The average person figures that the president tells the truth, the vice president tells the truth, the secretary of state tell the truth; and they don't. They don't. The founders understood that people would be flawed, that political leaders would not be the best of men … so they set forth the constitution. We don't follow the constitution in this country; had we done so in 2001 and 2002, the world would be a different place" - Karen Kwiatkowski

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NoPants View Post
    My only concern is the people who pay just enough attention to be complete idiots. The ones that will hear "Rand Paul" and 'think' (I use that term loosely) it's "Ron Paul" again. These are the same morons that thought we were talking about "RuPaul" in 2008 whenever Ron was mentioned. If only Rand's name was "Andrew Paul" or something distinctly different to ensure no possible confusion. This probably sounds crazy but from a marketing perspective it concerns me.
    Thats why we go with 'RAND 2016' with regards to marketing. Everyone who likes Ron already knows who Rand is, while those uninformed idiots turned off by Ron will be spared the last name (at least in the most superficial form of marketing) and therefore the confusion. After a few debates this should all disappear though, as everyone gets to know Rand. I only see the confusion you're talking about possibly skewing early polling.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Interesting. My mother called me and told me she heard a similar conversation on the radio. (Republicans saying "Maybe we compromise on social issues like abortion" and saying "Ron Paul" in the same breath.) Here's the irony. Ron Paul is rock solid on conservative social issues! It's harder to get more "pro life" than Ron Paul without going crazy like Santorum. It's the wars stupid! (I'm glad someone brought up the foreign policy issue). It's also civil liberties. Does who can marry who even resonate in a country where American citizens can be detained without trial or even extra-judicially killed? Does your marital status even matter if you are illegally detained or on a kill list?
    Exactly right. The GOP esbalishment thinks they have to now take pro choice and pro gay marriage positions in order to win future elections, when in reality it's their foreign policy and their support of the police state that has hurt their popularity.

  30. #26
    I call BS. It's just another way to make us think we are relevant. $#@! 'em and $#@! politics. You don't change the mafia by joining it.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by RCA View Post
    I call BS. It's just another way to make us think we are relevant. $#@! 'em and $#@! politics. You don't change the mafia by joining it.
    did you vote for Ron Paul? If not, why are you on this forum? If so, that action seems to contradict your statement. I'm ancap too, I sympathize with your statement, but I still think that having people within the system that can use the political process to educate and work against the system as best they can is not entirely a waste. I am in favor of any progress in the right direction. Rothbard was very involved in the LP. He was interested in educating and winning elections and making change, despite being an anarchist.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by RCA View Post
    I call BS. It's just another way to make us think we are relevant. $#@! 'em and $#@! politics. You don't change the mafia by joining it.
    So is that what Ron Paul did in 1996, after he had left?

    Did he change nothing by "joining" the mafia?

    Ron Paul gave us the blueprint, now we have to keep following it...
    It's just an opinion... man...

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by NoOneButPaul View Post
    So is that what Ron Paul did in 1996, after he had left?

    Did he change nothing by "joining" the mafia?

    Ron Paul gave us the blueprint, now we have to keep following it...
    No, he didn't change anything. In fact, it got substantially worse. I'll state it again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Ron Paul changed the world because he talked with people and debated with people. All of his votes don't even come close to having the impact that his speaking did. And it was the game of politics that shut his speaking down at the most crucial point of the 2012 election.

    And what blueprint are you talking about? The one he spoke about, or the one he lived? Because just like Jefferson, Ron Paul said and did two different things.

    “Ideas are very important to the shaping of society. In fact, they are more powerful than bombings or armies or guns. And this is because ideas are capable of spreading without limit. They are behind all the choices we make. They can transform the world in a way that governments and armies cannot. Fighting for liberty with ideas makes more sense to me than fighting with guns or politics or political power. With ideas, we can make real change that lasts.”
    ― Ron Paul, Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate-ForLiberty View Post
    No, he didn't change anything. In fact, it got substantially worse. I'll state it again because it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Ron Paul changed the world because he talked with people and debated with people. All of his votes don't even come close to having the impact that his speaking did. And it was the game of politics that shut his speaking down at the most crucial point of the 2012 election.

    And what blueprint are you talking about? The one he spoke about, or the one he lived? Because just like Jefferson, Ron Paul said and did two different things.

    “Ideas are very important to the shaping of society. In fact, they are more powerful than bombings or armies or guns. And this is because ideas are capable of spreading without limit. They are behind all the choices we make. They can transform the world in a way that governments and armies cannot. Fighting for liberty with ideas makes more sense to me than fighting with guns or politics or political power. With ideas, we can make real change that lasts.”
    ― Ron Paul, Liberty Defined: 50 Essential Issues That Affect Our Freedom
    And i'll state again... how could the bolded been done outside of the GOP?

    What people here don't understand, and what even Ron doesn't understand, is being a national political figure gives you the GREATEST AUDIENCE to educate. Without Ron debating on the national stage in 2007 we'd still be lost.

    Without the platform that was given these past 2 elections there would have been no educating anyone to the degree Ron did.

    If you want to educate the masses then you've got to get the masses together to listen... that's best done within a party structure.

    If you went door to door the rest of your life preaching the message you wouldn't get as far as Ron did by having millions watching him debate.

    Ideas are VERY important, but without a real platform to give those ideas you'll never get anywhere...
    Last edited by NoOneButPaul; 11-12-2012 at 06:27 PM.
    It's just an opinion... man...

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