Yes Rand Paul, there is an emergency at our border!

[Origanalist]

I brought up "brown people" and Orig didn't?

I bought up brown people because most people the wall is meant to keep out are brown. Amirite?

[Origanalist]

I'm color blind and you were trying to imply I am not, I don't want Swedish communists coming here either.
The color of the people is not relevant and the only reason to bring it up is to imply that I care about it.

Swedish communists? Is there a new invasion????????? Are they coming from South America????

[Swordsmyth]

Because, you lying sack of shyt I was responding to what Kahless wrote when you responded to me! So, you lying sack of shyt, start a new conversation if you don't want me to point out what kahless was talking about. Got that you lying sack of shyt? Kahless didn't say anything about communism in her post you lying sack of shyt. So you were putting words in kahless mouth and trying to change the subject lying sack of shyt.

What does it mean when you call my statement about communists a pretext and imply that I am not being honest about my motives while Kahless is?
We all know it means you are claiming that I share the same motivation as Kahless that you claim is racist.

I responded to one issue in your reply to Kahless and you ignored my point and called me a racist.

[Origanalist]

I'm color blind and you were trying to imply I am not, I don't want Swedish communists coming here either.
The color of the people is not relevant and the only reason to bring it up is to imply that I care about it.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

[jmdrake]

And we should let happen to us what Mexico let happen to Texas? (By the way, the Texans had the Mexican government's permission to move into Texas)

And H1B Visa holders come here with our permission. Are you now going to go on record as supporting more H1B Visas?

Excessive and unselective immigration is a crisis whether it takes places over a land border or through ports and whether it is legal or illegal.

H1B visas are, by definition, selective.

Also I see that you didn't even address the point that the immigration in the early 1800's was not what you are now calling a "border crisis." So...once again you lied.

[Swordsmyth]

Swedish communists?

Yes.

Is there a new invasion?????????

There may be now that their destruction of their homeland is nearing completion.

Are they coming from South America????

They may very well travel to Mexico to cross our southern border as many people from countries all over the world do.

[jmdrake]

What does it mean when you call my statement about communists a pretext and imply that I am not being honest about my motives while Kahless is?

Why the fvck were you even bringing up communism in response to my response to Kahless when she didn't bring it up you lying sack of shyt?

[Swordsmyth]

And H1B Visa holders come here with our permission. Are you now going to go on record as supporting more H1B Visas?

No, I don't think we should repeat Mexico's mistake.

H1B visas are, by definition, selective.

They are selected based on the wrong criteria, immigrants should be selected based on the liberty level of the culture they come from.

Also I see that you didn't even address the point that the immigration in the early 1800's was not what you are now calling a "border crisis." So...once again you lied.

A border crisis is an immigration crisis, the 1800's excessive immigration primarily coming through ports is irrelevant, if they were all dropping from space it wouldn't matter.

[Origanalist]

Yes.


There may be now that their destruction of their homeland is nearing completion.


They may very well travel to Mexico to cross our southern border as many people from countries all over the world do.

Is that what the voices in your head are telling you?

[Swordsmyth]

Why the fvck were you even bringing up communism in response to my response to Kahless when she didn't bring it up you lying sack of shyt?

Let's carefully read what you wrote and what I replied and maybe if I highlight the important part you will understand since you failed to comprehend it the first time:

Originally Posted by jmdrake

Should I be trying to stop the white people from moving into my historically black neighborhood? Seriously did you not realize how racist you are sounding right now? No, you probably don't. Here is the thing. People can buy property and move where they want to move. Nothing is permanent. Not even this entire planet.



When has immigration not been regulated? Oh yeah. Back when the waves of white immigrants came to this country. And many of them were criminals.



So the Ron Paul movement is dead and people like you killed it. Seriously. We survived the "Let's give up freedom for security" even in the wake of the 9/11 hysteria, but now nearly 20 years late, let's give up freedom for security for non existent foreign terrorist that you think might exist. Okay.



And ^this shows that all of that "We just want to keep out the criminals, terrorists, and welfare recipients" argument that you and others are floating is just a pretext. Really it's what you led with. You're worried about white people being outnumbered. It matters not that certain waves of the brown people coming over might be better educated, have their own money, not need welfare, be less violent then native born Americans black or white, and might even be starting businesses and creating jobs. (I know someone in Kentucky who works at a Japanese owned factory for example.) Nope. It's really about "Our white European communities will be run over by darkies! What to do?" Still, I'm glad you were at least honest about that. And again. White people are taking over my black community. And I don't really care.





Right. Because they want their communities to remain white. And I really don't care to cater to their racism. But again, thanks for being honest.

Letting foreign communists invade is not choosing freedom and keeping them out is choosing both freedom and security.

[Swordsmyth]

Is that what the voices in your head are telling you?

The race card failed so now you are playing the insanity card?

LOL

You've got NOTHING.

[jmdrake]

No, I don't think we should repeat Mexico's mistake.

Letting in people who support slavery? I fully agree that was a mistake.

They are selected based on the wrong criteria, immigrants should be selected based on the liberty level of the culture they come from.

Hong Kong and Singapore are numbers 1 and 2 on the Heritage Economic Freedom Index. They also rank very high on H1B Visa applications. Point, set, match.

https://www.heritage.org/index/

A border crisis is an immigration crisis, the 1800's excessive immigration primarily coming through ports is irrelevant, if they were all dropping from space it wouldn't matter.

So specifically what do you consider to be the immigration crisis of the early 1800's? And references please.

[jmdrake]

Let's carefully read what you wrote and what I replied and maybe if I highlight the important part you will understand since you failed to comprehend it the first time:

Well you didn't highlight that the first time. But okay. Once again I was responding to Kahless. And Kahless was talking about unidentified terrorists. But now I will respond to you. First a question. Are you ready to go on record for increasing H1B visas for people from countries on the top 10 list of the Heritage Foundation economic freedom rankings?

[Origanalist]

The race card failed so now you are playing the insanity card?

LOL

You've got NOTHING.

I'm just playing the cards dealt me, maybe you should bring it up with the voices.

[Swordsmyth]

Letting in people who support slavery? I fully agree that was a mistake.

Letting in foreigners intent on taking over in numbers too large for you to control.

Hong Kong and Singapore are numbers 1 and 2 on the Heritage Economic Freedom Index. They also rank very high on H1B Visa applications. Point, set, match.

https://www.heritage.org/index/

That is not the criteria they are selected for and both of those places have very authoritarian governments, even if we say that perhaps we should consider allowing immigrants from those places we would need to alter the system so it doesn't let in people from all of the other places it let's them in from.

So specifically what do you consider to be the immigration crisis of the early 1800's? And references please.

Excessive numbers of immigrants fleeing Europe in the wake of the failed socialist revolutions of the time starting with the French revolution.

One example:

"The year 1848 is turning out well", wrote Engels. "By this glorious revolution the French proletariat has again placed itself at the head of the European movement. All honour to the workers of Paris!" That revolution spread across the whole of Europe, marking an important development in the class struggle. "A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of Communism", wrote Marx and Engels in the opening passage of the Communist Manifesto. "All powers of old Europe have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Pope and Tsar, Metternich and Guizot, French Radicals and German police spies." Prophetically, on the day of the Manifesto's publication in London, Europe was ablaze with revolution.
King Louis-Phillipe of France abdicated immediately. Guizot the French Prime Minister was dismissed and Prince Metternich of Austria fell within a few weeks. Marx and Engels hoped that the revolution would only serve as "the immediate prelude to the proletarian revolution." They immediately hailed the revolution which first broke out in France on 24^th February 1848.

"The year 1848 is turning out well", wrote Engels. "By this glorious revolution the French proletariat has again placed itself at the head of the European movement. All honour to the workers of Paris!
"Our age, the age of democracy, is breaking. The flames of the Tuileries and the Palais Royal are the dawn of the proletariat. Everywhere the rule of the bourgeoisie will now come crashing down, or be dashed to pieces." (Marx Engels Collected Works, vol.6, p.558)

After a prolonged period of reaction with the defeat of the 1830 revolutions, the revolutionary masses of Paris, guns and red flags in hand, took to the streets, built barricades, drove out the monarchy and forced the Provisional government to declare a Republic. The worker Guibert burst into the Chamber brandishing a pistol, bringing the debate to an abrupt end with the words, "No more deputies, we are the masters."
It was the workers and the lower middle class that propelled the revolution forward. The bourgeoisie, who would eventually gain from the revolution, had not expected or wanted such an outcome. "We wanted to climb from step to step", said one, "but we were forced to leap over a whole flight of stairs."
Above all, the bourgeoisie feared the working class, who pushed forward their own independent class demands: the right to work, a minimum wage, shorter hours, pensions for the disabled, the creation of workshops, compulsory universal education, universal suffrage, progressive taxation, and other working-class demands. In turn, the working class did not trust the bourgeoisie deputies, who wanted an accommodation with the monarchy. As a result, on the walls of Paris revolutionary posters urged the masses: "Let us keep our arms!"
The new bourgeois republican administration was forced to bring in two socialists into the government, one of whom was Louis Blanc, a popular workers' leader. His role, however, became that of class conciliator, struggling to keep the revolutionary movement within acceptable legal limits. Under the pressure from the radical masses, some reforms were introduced, including the establishment of national workshops, in effect, poor law relief for the unemployed.
The elections to the Constituent Assembly were held in late April and recorded big gains for the bourgeois parties, largely due to the support of the conservative peasantry which made up 84% of the new electorate. The new government failed to address the plight of the workers and attempted to undermine the revolution by attacking the workers' leaders, particularly Blanqui and Cabet, as "communists". Trust in the bourgeois government melted away. It was becoming obvious that growing frustration was preparing a new showdown. The government's announced closure of the national workshops in Paris was the last straw. "The February revolution raised the problem of property and labour", stated the revolutionary Paul-Louis Deflotte. "This problem must be solved."
However, the government was making its own plans to teach the workers a lesson by sending them to the school of General Cavaignac who was brought back from butchering the peoples of Algiers, a faithful servant of the counter-revolution.
On 21^st June a decree was promoted, abolishing the national workshops. That day the workers of Paris arose again and threw up barricades throughout the capital. Flags were raised with the inscriptions: "Bread or Death!" and "Work or Death!" It was a purely workers' uprising, devoid of the carnival atmosphere of the February revolution. "The insurrection [is] growing into the greatest revolution that has ever taken place", wrote Marx, "into a revolution of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie." (MECW, vol.7, p.128, emphasis in original.)
The fighting was ferocious. The bourgeois counter-revolution gave no quarter. The workers were shot down like wild beasts. "The bourgeoisie, fully conscious of what it is doing, conducts a war of extermination against them", wrote Marx. He went on to quote a captain of the republican guard, describing events on 23^rd and 24^th June. "The cannon replied and until 9 o'clock windows and bricks were shattered by the thunder of artillery. The firing was terrible. Blood flowed in streams while at the same time a tremendous thunderstorm was raging. The cobblestones were red with blood as far as one could see... The number of dead is immense and the number of injured much greater still." (ibid, p.138)
The workers, on the other hand, fought for four solid days with unequalled bravery. "The courage with which the workers have fought is truly marvelous", wrote Marx. For three full days, 30,000 to 40,000 workers were able to hold their own against more than 80,000 soldiers and 100,000 men of the national guard, against grape-shot, shells, incendiary rockets and the glorious war experiences of generals who did not shrink from using these methods employed in Algeria! They have been crushed and in large part massacred. Their dead will not be accorded the honour that was bestowed upon the dead of July and February. History, however, will assign an entirely different place to them, the martyrs of the first decisive battle of the proletariat." (ibid, p.143)
After almost a week of battles and street-fighting, the full might of the state was used to crush the movement in blood. A frenzy of shootings and torture were on the order of the day. Some 15,000 were killed and wounded during and after the uprising. The ruling class exacted its revenge for the independent movement of the French workers. The workers' demand "contained a threat to the existing order of society; the workers who put it forward were still armed; therefore, the disarming of the workers was the first commandment for the bourgeois, who were at the helm of the state." (Engels)
The revolutions of 1848 were essentially bourgeois-democratic in the tasks they attempted to solve. Their fundamental aspect was the destruction of the old feudal structures and the creation of the independent nation state. While Marx and Engels hoped that this bourgeois revolution would be the immediate prelude to the proletarian revolution, given the weakness of the Communist League, they had no alternative but to form in Germany the extreme proletarian wing of the democratic movement. Its aim was to destroy absolutism and to unity the backward states into one democratic republic. This could only be brought about by revolutionary means. The daily paper, Neue Rheinische Zeitung, edited by Marx, was the organ of democratic revolution, but, as Engels wrote, of "a democracy which everywhere emphasized in every point the specific proletarian character." The paper, which had widespread support, became the true headquarters of the militant proletariat, the leading centre of the Communist League.
Not only did Marx and Engels fight for national independence for the oppressed nationalities, but put forward a genuinely internationalist approach. There were other nations oppressed by reactionary German states, such as the Poles in Prussia, the Italians, Czechs and others in Austria, as well as Russian Tsarism. At this time Tsarism was the most counter-revolutionary force in Europe in the same way that American imperialism is on a world stage today.
Marx and Engels sharply criticized the cowardly bourgeois leaders for failing to support the struggles of oppressed nations such as the Poles, Czechs, Hungarians and Italians against Prussian and Austrian despotism. The leadership of the revolution will fall to the working class. "... not the cowardly German burghers but the German workers; they will rise up, put an end to the whole filthy, muddled official German rule and with a radical revolution restore the honour of Germany", explained Engels. "Germany will liberate herself to the extent to which she sets free neighbouring nations."
Revolution broke out in Germany on 18^th March with fighting in nearly every town and barricades erected in Berlin and Vienna. The people won a series of democratic rights but control passed into the hands of the big bourgeoisie, which quickly betrayed the struggle.
It was out of these experiences that Marx and Engels were to raise the idea of permanent revolution. The bourgeoisie were more afraid of the working class than the forces of feudal despotism. They were to play an increasingly counter-revolutionary role. They were incapable of bringing about genuine national unification, as history proved. Marx and Engels put their confidence in the working class. They believed that a successful bourgeois-democratic revolution, under the leadership of the workers, would become the prologue of the proletarian revolution and the transformation of Europe. "Before reaction can be destroyed in Italy and Germany, it must be routed in France", explained Engels. "A democratic social republic must first be proclaimed in France and the French proletariat must first subjugate its bourgeoisie before a lasting victory of democracy is conceivable in Italy, Germany, Poland, Hungary and other countries." (ibid, p.403) Marx agreed: "The Hungarian shall not be free, nor the Poles, nor the Italians, as long as the work remains a slave."
The defeat of the 1848 revolutions removed any threat of proletarian revolution. The forces of capitalism were still maturing. It took a further 23 years before the glorious Paris Commune (the first workers' state in history) would place proletarian revolution once again on the agenda of the European continent.

https://www.marxist.com/1848-revolutions.htm

[Swordsmyth]

Are you ready to go on record for increasing H1B visas for people from countries on the top 10 list of the Heritage Foundation economic freedom rankings?

No.
After we get our immigration crisis under control I would be willing to allow some regular immigration from countries with the best liberty cultures and those countries on that list might qualify but the numbers would have to be low in order to ensure proper assimilation and safeguard our political culture and liberty.

[Slave Mentality]

I understand that my anarchist utopia is out, but I will be damned if I won’t default to less state every time.

“Spending money you don’t have on $#@! you don’t need...”

-George Carlin

Yes Swordsmyth, hordes of invaders, commies, and other things I should be concerned about....saved you some time here.

[Swordsmyth]

I bought up brown people because most people the wall is meant to keep out are brown. Amirite?

No, you are wrong, the wall is meant to keep out anyone who violates our rules about who may come here, that could be people of any color.

[CCTelander]

I'm just playing the cards dealt me, maybe you should bring it up with the voices.

Usually when someone feels the need to declare victory they've actually achieved nothing of the kind.

[Swordsmyth]

I understand that my anarchist utopia is out, but I will be damned if I won’t default to less state every time.

“Spending money you don’t have on $#@! you don’t need...”

-George Carlin

Yes Swordsmyth, hordes of invaders, commies, and other things I should be concerned about....saved you some time here.

The commie invaders will bring you much larger government.

[kahless]

Should I be trying to stop the white people from moving into my historically black neighborhood? Seriously did you not realize how racist you are sounding right now? No, you probably don't. Here is the thing. People can buy property and move where they want to move. Nothing is permanent. Not even this entire planet.

No, I was specifically speaking of suddenly flooding the country with people of a different, race, language and culture combined in mass. The white or black American family ends up being a foreigner in their own neighborhood. It is just not right.

Nothing racist about it. Being a realist and I never said anything about restricting how anyone can buy property already here.

So the Ron Paul movement is dead and people like you killed it. Seriously. We survived the "Let's give up freedom for security" even in the wake of the 9/11 hysteria, but now nearly 20 years late, let's give up freedom for security for non existent foreign terrorist that you think might exist. Okay.

I posted Ron Paul's 2008/2012 immigration policy. I support that, you don't obviously.

And ^this shows that all of that "We just want to keep out the criminals, terrorists, and welfare recipients" argument that you and others are floating is just a pretext. Really it's what you led with. You're worried about white people being outnumbered. It matters not that certain waves of the brown people coming over might be better educated, have their own money, not need welfare, be less violent then native born Americans black or white, and might even be starting businesses and creating jobs. (I know someone in Kentucky who works at a Japanese owned factory for example.) Nope. It's really about "Our white European communities will be run over by darkies! What to do?" Still, I'm glad you were at least honest about that. And again. White people are taking over my black community. And I don't really care.

Right. Because they want their communities to remain white. And I really don't care to cater to their racism. But again, thanks for being honest.

It is simply means keeping the demographic the same as the majority of the history of the US. This way we all have a common language and culture. Other races as a minority have assimilated as a minority and that is fine.

What you are however advocating has throughout the history of the world ended up with racial, ethnic or religious strife. That is where we are headed without maintaining the demographic composition this country historically had. That is not racist, it is just being real.

You want to start slinging accusations of racism, well here is some regional race realism for you. I would not be welcome moving into most black neighborhoods. But a black family would in most cases be welcomed into a white neighborhood. So don't $#@!ing tell me that I am racist since I have probably been subjected to more racism in my lifetime than you for being a white minority. I have been on the receiving end of racism from blacks and other minorities throughout my entire lifetime. Yet I have not once treated anyone different. I have scene it first hand people unable to speak the language and become a foreigner in the communities they lived in their whole lives. My like minded friends are of all races, cultures and religions know the real deal not this fake media $#@! about race you are spewing.

Am I supposed to enjoy walking down the street and the new immigrant family that moved in is cheering on their 4 year old calling me a white devil and that I do not belong here. Yeah, that $#@!ing happened and I can tell many more stories.

Do I wish people could be like in Star Trek, sure. But no, the reality is there are racists in all races. Whites do not have some monopoly on racism.

[Origanalist]

Usually when someone feels the need to declare victory they've actually achieved nothing of the kind.

[CCTelander]

ROTFL! I'd +rep you if I could.

[jmdrake]

No, I was specifically speaking of suddenly flooding the country with people of a different, race, language and culture combined in mass. The white or black American family ends up being a foreigner in their own neighborhood. It is just not right.

Nothing racist about it. Being a realist and I never said anything about restricting how anyone can buy property already here.

With the ebb and flow of people of different races moving in and out of neighborhoods there is no way to prevent one race that might be a majority from becoming an minority in any particular neighborhood. And I've seen that happen with blacks and whites with everyone born in the good old USA. There is nothing "not right" about that. It is what it is. It's not good, not bad, just is.

I posted Ron Paul's 2008/2012 immigration policy. I support that, you don't obviously.

You are obviously a liar if you obviously think I don't support that and somehow you do. You have it exactly backwards actually. Ron Paul isn't the one running around saying "It's just not right that white people might become a minority in their own neighborhoods." Ron is the one who said he is against a border wall. Ron is against Trump using emergency powers to build a border wall. I fully agree with Ron Paul's demagnetization strategy.

It is simply means keeping the demographic the same as the majority of the history of the US. This way we all have a common language and culture. Other races as a minority have assimilated as a minority and that is fine.

Demographics never stay the same and they don't need to stay the same.

What you are however advocating has throughout the history of the world ended up with racial, ethnic or religious strife. That is where we are headed without maintaining the demographic composition this country historically had. That is not racist, it is just being real.

What I am advocating is what Ron Paul is advocating. And throughout the history of the United States racism has been a government manufactured problem.

You want to start slinging accusations of racism, well here is some race realism for you. I would not be welcome moving into most black neighborhoods. But a black family would in most cases be welcomed into a white neighborhood. So don't $#@!ing tell me that I am racist since I have probably been subjected to more racism in my lifetime than you for being a white minority.

LOL. 1) Bullshyt! 2) You were the one that brought up race sweetheart. 3) You may have missed it but I told the story in this thread of the white neighbor that asked my aunt to rent to whites because he didn't want his kids to be a minority only to ask her later to rent to blacks because the whites that moved in were trash. He probably wouldn't have liked you either. I guess you would have thought he was racist even though he was white.

[PAF]

ROTFL! I'd +rep you if I could.

Covered

[jmdrake]

No.
After we get our immigration crisis under control I would be willing to allow some regular immigration from countries with the best liberty cultures and those countries on that list might qualify but the numbers would have to be low in order to ensure proper assimilation and safeguard our political culture and liberty.

LOL. So it was a pretext. Thanks for being honest (finally). And no that doesn't mean I'm calling you a racist. I'm sure there is some other hidden reason you have.

[Swordsmyth]

LOL. So it was a pretext. Thanks for being honest (finally). And no that doesn't mean I'm calling you a racist. I'm sure there is some other hidden reason you have.

It is not a pretext, I have always been honest, I don't care about race, I care about liberty and political culture, we must keep out those who don't believe in liberty and we must limit the number of people we allow from anywhere because no other country has a liberty culture as good as ours.

[kahless]

LOL. 1) Bullshyt! 2) You were the one that brought up race sweetheart. 3) You may have missed it but I told the story in this thread of the white neighbor that asked my aunt to rent to whites because he didn't want his kids to be a minority only to ask her later to rent to blacks because the whites that moved in were trash. He probably wouldn't have liked you either. I guess you would have thought he was racist even though he was white.

Where are not talking about American blacks immigrating to America. That makes no sense. So saying race in regards to immigration is simply short hand. Since race with immigration comes vastly different cultures, religions, values, etc.

For example massive "race" and immigration from a majority black Muslim country or something like the Sudan would present a problem. That is not being racist, it is being real.

[Zippyjuan]

Where are not talking about American blacks immigrating to America. That makes no sense. So saying race in regards to immigration is simply short hand. Since race with immigration comes vastly different cultures, religions, values, etc.

For example massive "race" and immigration from a majority black Muslim country or something like the Sudan would present a problem. That is not being racist, it is being real.

How many terrorists from Sudan have committed attacks in the US? How many people from Sudan have been caught trying to sneak across our southern border? Are the a major problem/ threat?

[jmdrake]

Where are not talking about American blacks immigrating to America. That makes no sense. So saying race in regards to immigration is simply short hand. Since race with immigration comes vastly different cultures, religions, values, etc.

You're missing the point "sweetheart." Demographics change. If a bunch of Swedish people immigrated to your neighborhood would you be peachy with it because you would still be majority white? How about a bunch of Chechens? They're white too.

For example massive "race" and immigration from a majority black Muslim country or something like the Sudan would present a problem. That is not being racist, it is being real.

Islam is a religion not a race you dimwit. If you had a lot of people immigrating form the Bahamas the vast majority of them would be Christian albeit most of them would be black. (And most would likely have more money than you). If you had a bunch of people immigrating from Chechnya they would all be white but the vast majority would be Muslim. If your concern is Muslims immigration then just say Muslim immigration and not make it about black or white the way you did.