Mass disobedience

[brandon]

The federal, state, and local governments of the country need to provide scientific evidence of the risk of sars-cov-2 to the general public. That means randomized test samplings of the population and real statistical data of the risk to the general public. In the absence of data we will refuse to comply

We need mass disobedience in every major city.

April first. Either provide the data, or lets rise up.

[tfurrh]

People are eating it up though. Praising the govt all over for its preventative action. People are gladly closing up shop and "doing their part." WE'VE GOT TO FLATTEN THE CURVE

[69360]

I have publicly announced that my business is open and will not be closing. This wasn't intended as a publicity stunt or act of disobedience. I just as an individual owner do not see a need to close. I expected a flood of negative comments, hate mail and threats. Surprisingly I got nothing. It gives me some hope. I also saw a recent poll on yahoo news where 25% of respondents say they have little or no concern about this virus. Anecdotally, I was in international airports 4 times last week and aside from less than 5 travelers in masks everything was totally normal. I have been to 2 business related events this week and again everything was normal, with no concern from anyone present.

[Working Poor]

Sounds good to me. I am doing the same things I always do during flu season.

I think businesses need to encourage anyone running a fever to stay home. It is just common sense. No company should threaten a good employee with firing if they stay home under these conditions this flu stuff would probably go away if people did not go to work when running a fever. Some people might call in when they are not sick there will always be people who are lazy I suppose.

I don't understand why people who are sick run out into a public place such as a restaurant when they should know they are spreading something to at least 20 people who will then infect another 20 people.

Otherwise I agree with you civil disobedience is the way to go.

[presence]

Either provide the data, or

I read a lot of whitepaper; scientific study type stuff... let me catch you up on what I've gleaned

to begin with this virus has an r0>2; some studies put it as high as 5 or 6. In short that means that it WILL as a matter of fact push through the entire population until herd immunity is reached.


to reach "herd immunity" of a novel virus you'd need 60% plus of population to be infected; until that time comes it is more than likely it will continue chewing through the populace unabated. The rate of new cases is doubling at least every 6 days.

0.6*330,000,000 = 198,000,000

the problem is the prevalence of the requirement of intubation in those infected

when you do the math on ventilators... situation is pretty $#@!ed.

in italy; better than 40% require hospitalization; 6.5% of all cases are on ventilators

push the issue of 40% hospitalization aside... assume we can all have home IV therapy for fluids and pain killers

*0.065 = 12,870,000

there are only 80k ventilators in the US

12870000/80000=160 people per ventilator

average ventilator time is 25 days before recovery

160*25=4000 days

/365=11 years to treat the US population with the ventilators currently on the shelves.

Reality though... greater than 80% of the ventilators in US stock are already in use on existing patients with other issues.

the urgency in the situation is that if we do not flatten the curve, then anyone that needs a ventilator and can't get one in time is dead.

That's no less than 10 million people in the US - dead.

You could make an adjustment here and say... 75% of all cases will be asymptomatic and we'll never even notice them. I suspect that is high end estimate. Nonetheless, that's still 2 million dead - which required ventilators and could have survived.

the only solution to the problem is to buy time to build ventilators - or find some yet unknown pharmacological solution.

Vaccines for coronavirus are notoriously difficult; in all animal studies to date everything that has been developed has had a 2% or better kill rate; you take the vaccine and there is 2% chance a healthy animal dies within 2 years. It is highly unlikely that any vaccine will be on the table in the coming year.



I strongly discourage you from "rebelling" simply because you disagree with "what" the government is doing; do take this seriously.

Mathematically, there is strong likelihood that healthcare across the globe is about to become highly strained.

If anything... this is the time when your self sufficiency and forward planning as a liberty advocate should come into play. Do what you can to see to it that YOUR FAMILY is not requiring healthcare when the masses are.


These are trying times; I advocate for self-sufficiency and urge you not to engage in rebellion.

[brandon]

I was a little ahead of the times with the call for civil disobedience on April first. The people weren't ready yet.

Critical mass is growing. The time is almost upon us. Maybe May 1st?

Civil disobedience should take place on a local level.

Some ideas :

* Open your "non-essential" business
* Cross the tape and take your kids to the playground
* Leave your house to see friends and post pics on social media
* Have a large BBQ with all of your friends in public

other Ideas? The time is coming.

[Working Poor]

#NEWDAY2020 Reopen America May 1 2020

[Slave Mentality]

I read a lot of whitepaper; scientific study type stuff... let me catch you up on what I've gleaned

to begin with this virus has an r0>2; some studies put it as high as 5 or 6. In short that means that it WILL as a matter of fact push through the entire population until herd immunity is reached.


to reach "herd immunity" of a novel virus you'd need 60% plus of population to be infected; until that time comes it is more than likely it will continue chewing through the populace unabated. The rate of new cases is doubling at least every 6 days.

0.6*330,000,000 = 198,000,000

the problem is the prevalence of the requirement of intubation in those infected

when you do the math on ventilators... situation is pretty $#@!ed.

in italy; better than 40% require hospitalization; 6.5% of all cases are on ventilators

push the issue of 40% hospitalization aside... assume we can all have home IV therapy for fluids and pain killers

*0.065 = 12,870,000

there are only 80k ventilators in the US

12870000/80000=160 people per ventilator

average ventilator time is 25 days before recovery

160*25=4000 days

/365=11 years to treat the US population with the ventilators currently on the shelves.

Reality though... greater than 80% of the ventilators in US stock are already in use on existing patients with other issues.

the urgency in the situation is that if we do not flatten the curve, then anyone that needs a ventilator and can't get one in time is dead.

That's no less than 10 million people in the US - dead.

You could make an adjustment here and say... 75% of all cases will be asymptomatic and we'll never even notice them. I suspect that is high end estimate. Nonetheless, that's still 2 million dead - which required ventilators and could have survived.

the only solution to the problem is to buy time to build ventilators - or find some yet unknown pharmacological solution.

Vaccines for coronavirus are notoriously difficult; in all animal studies to date everything that has been developed has had a 2% or better kill rate; you take the vaccine and there is 2% chance a healthy animal dies within 2 years. It is highly unlikely that any vaccine will be on the table in the coming year.



I strongly discourage you from "rebelling" simply because you disagree with "what" the government is doing; do take this seriously.

Mathematically, there is strong likelihood that healthcare across the globe is about to become highly strained.

If anything... this is the time when your self sufficiency and forward planning as a liberty advocate should come into play. Do what you can to see to it that YOUR FAMILY is not requiring healthcare when the masses are.


These are trying times; I advocate for self-sufficiency and urge you not to engage in rebellion.

Do the white papers account for the extreme probability that 100s of millions have had it and never went on to be part of all those statistics?

If not, those numbers are garbage.

Also, we would never leave the house if we number crunched our likelihood of dying on a given day. I guess I am not buying it.

[dean.engelhardt]

I'll rebel against a government that is using the virus to money grab, BUT I don't believe putting my health and the health of others at risk is a effective form of rebellion. The data is overwhelming that the U.S. medical system cannot handle COVID 19. We need to know why a federal government that spends roughly 4 trillion dollar a year wasn't prepared for a virus that was it should have been. Thieves don't make good planners.

[PAF]

I'll rebel against a government that is using the virus to money grab, BUT I don't believe putting my health and the health of others at risk is a effective form of rebellion. The data is overwhelming that the U.S. medical system cannot handle COVID 19. We need to know why a federal government that spends roughly 4 trillion dollar a year wasn't prepared for a virus that was it should have been. Thieves don't make good planners.

Hey dean we haven’t spoken in years, hope all is well. Good to see you on. Give a call, I’d like to chat about this with you, the forum is too cumbersome to have a focused discussion ;-)