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Thread: Democrat's bold plan to return to power.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Except ICE agents and cops, right? You support that kind of government employee.
    We have not had enough ICE agents for longer than anyone can remember and more than usual are required to deal with the overwhelming number of illegals that have been let in.
    Cops vary by location but almost everywhere has too many, you know very well I have said I want less cops.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We have not had enough ICE agents for longer than anyone can remember and more than usual are required to deal with the overwhelming number of illegals that have been let in.
    Sounds like a yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Cops vary by location but almost everywhere has too many, you know very well I have said I want less cops.
    Also sounds like a yes. You support cops, just not all cops. But 'less' cops.


    Therefore, you do not oppose all government employees. You oppose some mythical, specific class of government employees who you view to be in the wrong somehow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    As much as I can't stand most republicans, democrats are even worse. I heard Chuck Schumer this morning talking about how the democrats were too timid and that's why they lost the election. He said this time they are going to be bold and "GO AFTER" the evil rich. He used the phrase "GO AFTER" over and over. "We're going to "GO AFTER" the big pharma companies. We're going to "GO AFTER" the big oil companies. "GO AFTER" big mergers."

    What do you suppose GO AFTER means?
    In Dem speak it means steal from them and give to a worthless ignorant $#@! that would vote for them .
    Do something Danke

  6. #34
    The Dems have no new or bold plans , in fact it is the same stale old communism cronyism they have peddled since 1913 .
    Do something Danke

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    As much as I can't stand most republicans, democrats are even worse. I heard Chuck Schumer this morning talking about how the democrats were too timid and that's why they lost the election. He said this time they are going to be bold and "GO AFTER" the evil rich. He used the phrase "GO AFTER" over and over. "We're going to "GO AFTER" the big pharma companies. We're going to "GO AFTER" the big oil companies. "GO AFTER" big mergers."

    What do you suppose GO AFTER means?
    Nearly all republicans suck and all Dems are much worse .
    Do something Danke

  8. #36
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    Therefore, you do not oppose all government employees. You oppose some mythical, specific class of government employees who you view to be in the wrong somehow.
    Worthless lawyers, regulators, city hall, epa administrators, climate change scientists, climate change science grant reviewers, DEA officers, CIA employees, NSA employees, DHS employees, women's studies professors, NEA administrators and recipients, road construction standabouts and sign flippers, propaganda writers and PSA commercial actors, and about 1000 other positions are all overpaid, and hardly "mythical".

    And no, as much as it pisses me off that bad cops get away with bad stuff all the time, and as much as it pisses me off that so much is spent on a military empire we don't need, I will never say we don't need cops, firefighters, and a military. As a matter of fact, almost all the jobs I listed above, I also think are required for a functioning government in some instances. There are just way too much, and they are way overpaid.


    Punishing insurance companies won't keep the government from bailing other other companies in the future.

    Punishing bankers won't stop the government from printing money.

    Deporting all the immigrants won't stop the government from taxing you.
    What do you mean by "punishing"? You mean like taking back the money they stole from us in the bailouts? Do you mean like stopping the subsidation of insurance, and ending insurance requirement laws? Deporting all the immigrants would mean more money for American citizens who actually do and have paid taxes, as well as lower rents, etc....

    So why do you want to blame people for things that are the fault of government?
    Insurance companies and banks run the government. AIG is an insurance company, and it told the government pay all it's buddies $700 Billion, so it wouldn't have to cover it's bad deals itself, and the government agreed. There is no difference especially between the banks and the government.
    Last edited by UWDude; 07-24-2017 at 11:59 PM.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    What do you suppose GO AFTER means?
    Letting them go first?

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    As Lewis Black said, we have a party of no ideas and a party of bad ideas.

    Hell, I couldn't even tell you what each party's core message is anymore. The Democrats are all over the damn place and the Republicans haven't decided if they're going to throw away all of their principles and just go flat out populist or not.

    As for "going after" big banks, big pharma, and big mergers: I don't think that is a Democratic thing. You can find the same suggestions right here on this forum, usually advocated by the very Trumpiest of posters. This is fundamentally a populist idea, in my opinion, and that is why Trump and Sanders shared many of the same fundamental economic philosophies during the campaign. Everything that is wrong with your life is the fault of somebody else, and that person is (fill in the blank; some suggestions: Mexican, White, rich, a government employee, a private sector employee, a banker). Your life would be way better if only we went and $#@!ed that guy over.
    Well said

    The Deep State brigade is dancing to the same tune as the Bernie Bros. Contrary to what a couple other posters said, the former are not (almost all of them) interested in (nor do they understand) the market. It's not conservativism, just mindless populist rage. "Get the bankers!" means just what it says, and no more; it's surely not about hard money. Anyway, if the Dems are moving away from weirdosexualism as their totem, and back to good old fashioned populist demogoguery, they'll be more formidable in future elections. Hell, if the Dems carry through on that transformation, and there's a libertarian reaction in the GOP (crosses fingers), expect a great many Trumpers to (re)join the Dems.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 07-25-2017 at 02:51 AM.

  11. #39
    I think most of the time parties are too bold and that's what costs them. If you had a party that just sat in office doing nothing they'd probably get re elected without question.

    Unfortunately you have a party that goes rip-roaring across the entire middle east in wars without end, or a party that completely $#@!s the healthcare system up through the mouth and out the ass.

    It's almost as if they get elected and try to do as much damage as they can before they get kicked out again.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    As Lewis Black said, we have a party of no ideas and a party of bad ideas.

    Hell, I couldn't even tell you what each party's core message is anymore. The Democrats are all over the damn place and the Republicans haven't decided if they're going to throw away all of their principles and just go flat out populist or not.

    As for "going after" big banks, big pharma, and big mergers: I don't think that is a Democratic thing. You can find the same suggestions right here on this forum, usually advocated by the very Trumpiest of posters. This is fundamentally a populist idea, in my opinion, and that is why Trump and Sanders shared many of the same fundamental economic philosophies during the campaign. Everything that is wrong with your life is the fault of somebody else, and that person is (fill in the blank; some suggestions: Mexican, White, rich, a government employee, a private sector employee, a banker). Your life would be way better if only we went and $#@!ed that guy over.

    Arm chair blah blah and pseudo intellectualism of tee vee shows. You spouted some basically meaningless crap to--ONCE AGAIN--derail a thread by making it about your pursuit of Trump supporters. You do some nice coffee klatching and derailing, but your one trick pony turned into a bad magic act long ago. This is Ron Paul Forums. Who was your voting choice in 2016? Hillary Clinton? The candidate going after the "super wealthy," "corporations," and "Wall St. banks."


    Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 07-25-2017 at 07:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    Arm chair blah blah and pseudo intellectualism of tee vee shows. You spouted some basically meaningless crap to--ONCE AGAIN--derail a thread by making it about your pursuit of Trump supporters. You do some nice coffee klatching and derailing, but your one trick pony turned into a bad magic act long ago. This is Ron Paul Forums. Who was your voting choice in 2016? Hillary Clinton? The candidate going after the "super wealthy," "corporations," and "Wall St. banks."


    Actually @TheCount was absolutely correct in his post.

    And don't hit me- you know I like you.
    There is no spoon.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I DO pay attention AND I appreciate your honesty but I think you are just falling into the hate-bait pit that a few other members are promoting.

    Zip's always been blasted on but, AFIK, the Count only started drawing the hate-bait when he started posting against Trump. Now people try to make him baaaaad and I do not agree. Besides, if you don't like them, put them on ignore.

    And, for what it's worth, I don't like the 2 parties, either- just want a Ron Paul or 2 or 3 to help us in this critical time.
    Search on old posts. I challenge you to find a negative post about dems by either. That's very weird to me. Anyway I'm tired of arguing about it.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    I should think it means they mean to follow behind them in an obeisant manner.

    ...like they HAVE been, but THIS time they ain't gonna be timid about it.
    All modern revolutions have ended in a reinforcement of the power of the State.
    -Albert Camus

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Search on old posts. I challenge you to find a negative post about dems by either. That's very weird to me.
    You'd also be hard pressed to find an anti-Dem post from me. You know why? There aren't any pro-Dem posts. 99.9% of people here already loathe all Dems, so why beat a dead horse? Similarly, I don't often make posts criticizing cannibalism or the slapping of puppies. Moreover, most of the anti-Dem postings here are actually pro-Trump postings in disguise. For every "Dems are bad because they support illiberal policy X," there are 100 "Dems are bad because they're attacking Trump." I don't jump on that bandwagon because I'm not interested in carrying water for Trump. I'd much rather criticize him, since there are many people here who support him for reasons incomprehensible.

    TL;DR - absence of anti-Dem postings =/= Dem support
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 07-25-2017 at 01:37 PM.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Similarly, I don't often make posts criticizing cannibalism or the slapping of puppies.
    Obviously that's because you are a puppy-slapping baby eater. We don't want your kind here!

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You'd also be hard pressed to find an anti-Dem post from me. You know why? There aren't any pro-Dem posts. 99.9% of people here already loathe all Dems, so why beat a dead horse? Similarly, I don't often make posts criticizing cannibalism or the slapping of puppies. Moreover, most of the anti-Dem postings here are actually pro-Trump postings in disguise. For every "Dems are bad because they support illiberal policy X," there are 100 "Dems are bad because they're attacking Trump." I don't jump on that bandwagon because I'm not interested in carrying water for Trump. I'd much rather criticize him, since there are many people here who support him for reasons incomprehensible.

    TL;DR - absence of anti-Dem postings =/= Dem support
    Yeah, I've heard that argument but it doesn't make sense. It might make sense if this was a Rush Limbaugh site but it's not. This is a Ron Paul website. A libertarian website, not a right wing republican website. Most of the people here hate both parties. And it has nothing to do with Trump, I've noticed the repub only criticism long before Trump. It's extremely fishy. Especially combined with support for the federal reserve, saying the economy was "good" under Obama (seriously?), downplaying the debt, and some other red flags like equating tax breaks to welfare benefits.


    Just out of curiosity do you like the federal reserve? Think the economy was good under Obama? 20 trillion in debt not that bad?
    Last edited by Madison320; 07-25-2017 at 03:23 PM.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard that argument but it doesn't make sense. It might make sense if this was a Rush Limbaugh site but it's not. This is a Ron Paul website. A libertarian website, not a right wing republican website. Most of the people here hate both parties.
    About a quarter of the active members spend all day promoting the sitting Republican President. No one did that when Obama was President, or if they did, they got negged to infinity and/or banned in 10 seconds. There was never any lasting pro-Obama faction here in the way there is now a pro-Trump faction. This site is no longer the hardcore libertarian site it once was; it has become (not entirely, but to a large extent), a Limbaugh type pro-Trump site.

    And it has nothing to do with Trump, I've noticed the repub only criticism long before Trump. It's extremely fishy.
    It has everything to do with Trump. Pre-Trump, there was no faction here promoting mainstream political candidates. We were pretty much all united in opposition to basically everybody in DC except for the Pauls, Amashes, etc. Naturally, most of the criticism was focused on GOPers, because those were the immediate obstacles (it wasn't Dems screwing Ron in the GOP primaries). Then Trump comes along and, as I said above, a quarter of the membership become Trump promoters. Anti-Trump posting from the rest of us was the natural reaction.

    Especially combined with support for the federal reserve, saying the economy was "good" under Obama (seriously?), downplaying the debt, and some other red flags like equating tax breaks to welfare benefits.
    Yea, a couple people on this forum are leftists on economic issues, Zippy the only prominent one. I've never seen The Count post leftist material. But anyway, the point is, the absence of anti-Dem posting, and prevalence of anti-Trump posting, is not evidence of a Democratic Party plot. It's the natural reaction of libertarians against their forum being overrun by supporters of the extremely anti-liberty sitting GOP President. If a couple years ago a quarter of the members had suddenly joined the Obamanation and spammed the forum with pro-Obama promotions, you'd have seen an equal and opposite reaction.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 07-25-2017 at 03:23 PM.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    About a quarter of the active members spend all day promoting the sitting Republican President. No one did that when Obama was President, or if they did, they got negged to infinity and/or banned in 10 seconds. There was never any lasting pro-Obama faction here in the way there is now a pro-Trump faction. This site is no longer the hardcore libertarian site it once was; it has become (not entirely, but to a large extent), a Limbaugh type pro-Trump site.



    It has everything to do with Trump. Pre-Trump, there was no faction here promoting mainstream political candidates. We were pretty much all united in opposition to basically everybody in DC except for the Pauls, Amashes, etc. Naturally, most of the criticism was focused on GOPers, because those were the immediate obstacles (it wasn't Dems screwing Ron in the GOP primaries). Then Trump comes along and, as I said above, a quarter of the membership become Trump promoters. Anti-Trump posting from the rest of us was the natural reaction.



    Yea, a couple people on this forum are leftists on economic issues, Zippy the only prominent one. I've never seen The Count post leftist material. But anyway, the point is, the absence of anti-Dem posting, and prevalence of anti-Trump posting, is not evidence of a Democratic Party plot. It's the natural reaction of libertarians against their forum being overrun by supporters of the extremely anti-liberty sitting GOP President. If a couple years ago a quarter of the members had suddenly joined the Obamanation and spammed the forum with pro-Obama promotions, you'd have seen an equal and opposite reaction.
    Pretty much my POV.
    There is no spoon.



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Yea, a couple people on this forum are leftists on economic issues, Zippy the only prominent one. I've never seen The Count post leftist material.
    Here ya go:


    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320
    That's true, an increase in the base of 10%, 20% even 50% could easily be hidden by other factors and we might not ever notice it. But we increased it by something like 400-500%. It will get noticed.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount
    If this is an economic fact, then the effects would have happened already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320
    Plus I believe we are going to print more.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount
    People have been repeating that continuously on this forum since the end of the last round of QE. Anything is possible, of course, but the economy is performing very well and there's no reason to think that they would do so without a major change in economic conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320
    Don't you think the markets have tripled because of QE?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount
    Not in the way that you mean, no. If the markets had tripled solely due to inflation, then it would be extremely apparent in all aspects of the market.

  24. #50
    @Madison320

    I don't see anything particularly leftist in those comments; nowhere does The Count praise any of the state's illiberal economic policies.

    He's simply disagreeing with you on their effects.

    Being a libertarian, and recognizing that QE (for instance) is harmful, doesn't require one to have any particular economic forecast.

    I, for one, don't expect a hyperinflationary collapse in the near future, yet I'm as critical of inflationary monetary policy as one can be.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Here ya go:
    Those same posts again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    @Madison320

    I don't see anything particularly leftist in those comments; nowhere does The Count praise any of the state's illiberal economic policies.

    He's simply disagreeing with you on their effects.

    Being a libertarian, and recognizing that QE (for instance) is harmful, doesn't require one to have any particular economic forecast.

    I, for one, don't expect a hyperinflationary collapse in the near future, yet I'm as critical of inflationary monetary policy as one can be.
    Since Madison broke the links when he quoted it, here's the thread itself: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ime-in-Decade/


    This is the second time he's attempted to derail in this exact same manner with the same quotes. I suspect that it won't be the last.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    From that thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    What is the benefit to pretending that a increase of X in the money supply will always cause a predictable increase of Y in prices, whether stock prices or otherwise? It's simple and from the point of view of philosophy it may feel good, but it's not an convincing argument for anyone who bothers to look at the actual changes in the market because it will never pan out to be a direct 1-for-1 correlation.
    That's not even the Austrian theory; it's the simple quantity theory of money, discredited a long time ago. Anyone attacking The Count for denying that an increase in the money supply must cause a proportional increase in prices doesn't even understand the ideology they claim to be defending.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    From that thread:



    That's not even the Austrian theory; it's the simple quantity theory of money, discredited a long time ago. Anyone attacking The Count for denying that an increase in the money supply must cause a proportional increase in prices doesn't even understand the ideology they claim to be defending.
    All things being equal it will. Since it grew by 500% what's going to offset it?

    So you think the economy is performing well? You skipped that part. Also the part where I said QE caused the markets to triple. You disagree with that as well?
    Last edited by Madison320; 07-25-2017 at 07:19 PM.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    All things being equal it will. Since it grew by 500% what's going to offset it?
    All things being equal, of course, but is that what you and The Count were discussing?

    It looked to me like you weren't discussing pure theory in a ceteris paribus world, but economic reality.

    And in economic reality, if output increases sufficiently, inflation will not cause an increase in the price level.

    ...it still causes problems, of course, just not price increases.

    So you think the economy is performing well?
    Relative to what? Living standards aren't too bad in the US right now I'd say.

    There are massive structural problems beneath the surface, which will eventually make themselves felt, but that's another matter.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    All things being equal, of course, but is that what you and The Count were discussing?

    It looked to me like you weren't discussing pure theory in a ceteris paribus world, but economic reality.

    And in economic reality, if output increases sufficiently, inflation will not cause an increase in the price level.

    ...it still causes problems, of course, just not price increases.



    Relative to what? Living standards aren't too bad in the US right now I'd say.

    There are massive structural problems beneath the surface, which will eventually make themselves felt, but that's another matter.

    OK I give up. But I'm expecting something to happen in the near future and then we'll know who's right.



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    OK I give up. But I'm expecting something to happen in the near future and then we'll know who's right.
    Point is, it doesn't matter who's right; good libertarians can disagree on economic forecasting.

    You can believe hyperinflation is coming tommorow and I not, and we're both libertarians provide we both object to inflationary monetary policy.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post



    And don't hit me- you know I like you.

    No, I know I've never negged you and don't foresee that at all.

    Over 99% of my negs are for trolls. I don't neg people for difference of opinion. I neg for bad behavior and $#@!ty behavior. I neg people who get paid to post here.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Point is, it doesn't matter who's right; good libertarians can disagree on economic forecasting.

    You can believe hyperinflation is coming tommorow and I not, and we're both libertarians provide we both object to inflationary monetary policy.
    I agree, but that's not where I was going.

  35. #60
    Their message is still jacked up because they won't abandon mega tech corporatism. These are the companies that will enable the government to actually execute their goal of tyranny.

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