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Thread: Jim Webb supports conscription and should not be defense chief

  1. #1

    Jim Webb supports conscription and should not be defense chief

    https://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb-006.html

    based on this, he believes in conscription



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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindy25 View Post
    https://www.cato.org/pubs/fpbriefs/fpb-006.html
    based on this, he believes in conscription
    You have now posted three erroneous threads.
    1st you claimed a Trump advisor was advocating muslim internment camps. Not true, he was not a Trump advisor, just a Trump supporter.
    Then you claimed Flynn was advocating a draft, which like Webb, is only partially true. They are only advocating it because they believe if there was one, people would be far less likely to clamor for war.
    Are you even reading what you are posting? I have a feeling you are not.

  4. #3
    All in all Jim Webb is a pretty solid man.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    You have now posted three erroneous threads.
    1st you claimed a Trump advisor was advocating muslim internment camps. Not true, he was not a Trump advisor, just a Trump supporter.
    Then you claimed Flynn was advocating a draft, which like Webb, is only partially true. They are only advocating it because they believe if there was one, people would be far less likely to clamor for war.
    Are you even reading what you are posting? I have a feeling you are not.
    so
    we're gonna send hundreds of thousands of teenagers to war to make a point???

    $#@! you man.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    You have now posted three erroneous threads.
    1st you claimed a Trump advisor was advocating muslim internment camps. Not true, he was not a Trump advisor, just a Trump supporter.
    Then you claimed Flynn was advocating a draft, which like Webb, is only partially true. They are only advocating it because they believe if there was one, people would be far less likely to clamor for war.
    Are you even reading what you are posting? I have a feeling you are not.
    Yeah, $#@! you, man! That's the argument of the left you're making! Who are you supporting now, Charlie Rangel?!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse James View Post
    so
    we're gonna send hundreds of thousands of teenagers to war to make a point???
    Nah, they're going to enslave hundreds of thousands of teenagers in the name of peace. Probably about 1/3 of them will be raped. And we will likely end up going to war anyway but at least their slavery will be in the name of peace.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    You have now posted three erroneous threads.
    1st you claimed a Trump advisor was advocating muslim internment camps. Not true, he was not a Trump advisor, just a Trump supporter.
    Then you claimed Flynn was advocating a draft, which like Webb, is only partially true. They are only advocating it because they believe if there was one, people would be far less likely to clamor for war.
    Are you even reading what you are posting? I have a feeling you are not.
    Cindy's right. He supports conscription. If you think that's OK based on the logic he uses do you also think making drug use punishable by the death penalty is OK if the logic is that it will cut down on overdose deaths?

    If you don't oppose things based on principle there is no end to the evil you will support.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Nah, they're going to enslave hundreds of thousands of teenagers in the name of peace. Probably about 1/3 of them will be raped. And we will likely end up going to war anyway but at least their slavery will be in the name of peace.
    And as if the elites children would actually get drafted, lol. they'd make sure to put enough loop holes in so that their spawn are safe...



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  11. #9
    Head of defense will not determine conscription . While there are probably many people who support it for various reasons , I cannot imagine it ever making it through both houses .
    Do something Danke

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Head of defense will not determine conscription . While there are probably many people who support it for various reasons , I cannot imagine it ever making it through both houses .
    why not? they will just combine it with the mandatory voluntary community service they've been pushing and it will sail through. I think you think our betters think more of our kids than they actually do.

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, $#@! you, man! That's the argument of the left you're making! Who are you supporting now, Charlie Rangel?!
    Yes. It is to make a point, and to avoid wars.
    so
    we're gonna send hundreds of thousands of teenagers to war to make a point???

    $#@! you man.
    No. there will not be a war, because the American people will not want wars, because their necks would be on the line.

  14. #12
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    Cindy's right. He supports conscription. If you think that's OK based on the logic he uses do you also think making drug use punishable by the death penalty is OK if the logic is that it will cut down on overdose deaths?
    Stupid analogy.

    If you don't oppose things based on principle there is no end to the evil you will support.
    Did any of you even read what was written?

    Yeah, $#@! you, man! That's the argument of the left you're making! Who are you supporting now, Charlie Rangel?!
    Yes, I supported Charlie Rangel, when many of you were losing your minds. Because Charlie Rangel was against the wars, that is why he proposed bringing back the draft. It wasn't to actually bring back the draft. But all of you were taking it too literally, just like you are now.
    Last edited by UWDude; 11-17-2016 at 12:06 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Yes. It is to make a point, and to avoid wars.


    No. there will not be a war, because the American people will not want wars, because their necks would be on the line.
    ^This is the intellect of a Trump voter?!! WTF?! When has conscription EVER prevented a war?!!!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    ^This is the intellect of a Trump voter?!! WTF?! When has conscription EVER prevented a war?!!!
    Did you even read the article posted?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Did you even read the article posted?
    Yes! I don't think YOU did.

    As a result, explains former Navy secretary James Webb, "What I worry about is that today the people who are making policy are totally dislocated, in a human way, from the people who are out there."(26) Journalist James Fallows makes a similar point. "The people who are making this decision can't imagine they are going to pay any human cost for it."(27)

    That charge is simple to make but hard to prove. Neither Webb nor Fallows has presented any evidence that President Bush is prepared to send thousands of people to their deaths because his own children, or those of his friends, are not at risk. William F. Buckley, Jr., argues that the complaint that we have an army of the poor

    does not justify the suggestion that decisions affecting the risk of combat will be made by men indifferent to their fate because they are themselves sons of power and affluence... ...It is simply an illusion to think that the children of power and privilege will not be able to manipulate a draft system. Even Webb acknowledges that the elite were able to avoid military service during the Vietnam War.
    The suggestion that this would reduce war is entirely false and only leads to MORE government force! You should be ashamed of yourself spewing this nonsense on a Ron Paul board.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  18. #16
    I'm shocked, I actually kind of liked him before.
    Stop believing stupid things



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I'm shocked, I actually kind of liked him before.
    Probably just because of who he was standing beside. It's kinda like those ugly girls in the bar that hang out with uglier friends to make themselves appear more attractive. It's only once you get them alone that you realize what has happened.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    Conscription military or civilian should be resisted by force if necessary. Still the most likely source of conscription is a dem regime.

  22. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The suggestion that this would reduce war is entirely false and only leads to MORE government force! You should be ashamed of yourself spewing this nonsense on a Ron Paul board.
    Not even.

  23. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tywysog Cymru View Post
    I'm shocked, I actually kind of liked him before.
    this was during the Iraq war, when Rangle proposed a bill to reinstitute the draft. It was not a real proposal, it was a "let's talk about why American support needless wars" proposal. It was never intended to pass.

    But when taken out of historical context, the ideologues swoop in and warn us of dangers that only exists in their Ideologueland.

    It's a fantasy boogyman.

  24. #21
    If the choice is Jim Webb, Rudy Giuliani and John Bolton, I'll take Webb every single time.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by robmpreston View Post
    If the choice is Jim Webb, Rudy Giuliani and John Bolton, I'll take Webb every single time.
    Well sure. If you have to commit suicide, do it the quickest way possible. Personally, I would rather not do it at all.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Cindy's right. He supports conscription. If you think that's OK based on the logic he uses do you also think making drug use punishable by the death penalty is OK if the logic is that it will cut down on overdose deaths?

    If you don't oppose things based on principle there is no end to the evil you will support.
    lol.. that is a horrible analogy.

    It would be more like, making illicit drug use punishable by death, so that people clamor to repeal all the drug laws.

    The intended result to is to get rid of the drug laws, not to punish people for drug use.

    The intended result of conscription, in this case, is to end the wars and prevent future wars. Whether it is effective or not is up for discussion, it's not a policy I personally support.. But I don't rabidly attack people who make the argument because they are trying to get to the same result I am, which is to end the wars.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    lol.. that is a horrible analogy.

    It would be more like, making illicit drug use punishable by death, so that people clamor to repeal all the drug laws.
    No it wouldn't. That would only be more accurate if the goal of the pro conscription crowd was to end war and end conscription. We already ended conscription, which was another evil on top of the wars that we have going on. The draft is dead, resurrecting it is a terrible idea because who knows if we could end it again. These idiots will keep it as a safety measure to ensure peace, which is absurd. Plenty of countries with a draft end up in wars.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe






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  29. #25
    That's some serious 4d Chess there. Conscription stops war. Freedom is slavery.
    @UWDude, it's very hard not to see you as the most anti-liberty person on this board. But bless you for your candor. And I respect that here's a trump supporter speaking up for Rangel. Because heaven knows trump did, slating him to be his HUD secretary in 1999 and contributing over $20,000 to his campaigns.
    Partisan politics, misleading or emotional bill titles, and 4D chess theories are manifestations of the same lie—that the text of the Constitution, the text of legislation, and plain facts do not matter; what matters is what you want to believe. From this comes hypocrisy. And where hypocrisy thrives, virtue recedes. Without virtue, liberty dies. - Justin Amash, March 2018

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    this was during the Iraq war, when Rangle proposed a bill to reinstitute the draft. It was not a real proposal, it was a "let's talk about why American support needless wars" proposal. It was never intended to pass.

    But when taken out of historical context, the ideologues swoop in and warn us of dangers that only exists in their Ideologueland.

    It's a fantasy boogyman.

    There are no "fantasy boogym[e]n" where government is concerned. Today's "fantasy boogyman" is tomorrow's real life nightmare. I've seen it happen over and over again in my 40+ years as a liberty activist.Almost every single bit of the authoritarian bull$#@! we suffer under today was deemed to be "fantasy boogym[e]n" at some point during that time frame.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    That's some serious 4d Chess there. Conscription stops war. Freedom is slavery.
    @UWDude, it's very hard not to see you as the most anti-liberty person on this board. But bless you for your candor. And I respect that here's a trump supporter speaking up for Rangel. Because heaven knows trump did, slating him to be his HUD secretary in 1999 and contributing over $20,000 to his campaigns.
    I am pro-truth, first and foremost. I do not tolerate hysterics, hyperbole, or misdirections.
    A lot of people here have a hard time with the truth. Because it reveals their goal of a Libertarian Utopia to be beyond their lifetime, and that is assuming everything went right.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by UWDude View Post
    Yes. It is to make a point, and to avoid wars.


    No. there will not be a war, because the American people will not want wars, because their necks would be on the line.
    What planet are you living in exactly? We've been pretty much at war since the founding of the country.

    Major Military Operations Since World War II

    1950-1953 Korean War

    1961 Cuba

    1961-1973 Vietnam War

    1965 Dominican Republic

    1982 Lebanon

    1983 Grenada

    1989 Panama

    1991 Gulf War (Kuwait and Iraq)

    1993 Somalia

    1994 Haiti

    1994-1995 Bosnia

    1999 Kosovo
    .
    2001—2014 Afghanistan

    2003—2010 Iraq War

    2014–present

    On August 8, 2014, the U.S. initiated military intervention against the Islamic State of Irag and the Levant (ISIL, ISIS, or Daesh) with airstrikes on key targets in Iraq. The move was later named Operation Inherent Resolve and claimed the following intent: "to reflect the unwavering resolve and deep commitment of the U.S. and partner nations in the region and around the globe to eliminate the terrorist group ISIL and the threat they pose to Iraq, the region and the wider international community." In Feb. 2015, President Obama sent a request for authorization for military force (AUMF) to Congress, but the measure couldn't win the necessary votes. According to the Department of Defense, 6,097 targets were damaged or destroyed as of April 23, 2015.
    There is no spoon.

  33. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    What planet are you living in exactly? We've been pretty much at war since the founding of the country.
    I am quite aware of the wars.
    If you can not see why Webb, Rangle and Flynn were talking about the draft in a hypothetical way, I don't know what to tell you.

    We already ended conscription
    Right, btu you still have to register for the non-draft.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrr View Post
    That's some serious 4d Chess there. Conscription stops war. Freedom is slavery.
    Here's the deal... All else equal, if Country A attacks Country B when Country B has done nothing wrong, NOBODY deserves to die - however - if innocent people are going to die, the people in Country A deserve it more than Country B. The people in Country A had a better chance at stopping the wars and putting leaders into power who wouldn't attack an innocent country.

    If there is a good way to stop Country A from attacking Country B, I am ok with it. If that means conscripting innocent people in Country A so that the people stand up and decide not to go to war, then it is worth it - it may not be good for the freedom of people in Country A, but it sure as hell is good for the freedom of the people in Country B.

    The question is whether or not that would be the outcome of such a decision. Certainly, conscripting the general population COULD lead to a pushback that could stop a war from happening. It is complete nonsense for you and William Tell to say this is impossible. It may not be a great strategy, but it is a potentially effective one.

    Again, I'm not saying I agree with promoting this idea, but I don't throw people under the bus who suggest it. They are suggesting that people who are responsible for electing a government who has the power to go kill innocent people, and who actually do so, put their own lives on the line first rather than other innocent people overseas.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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