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Thread: Insurers warn losses from ObamaCare are unsustainable

  1. #1

    Insurers warn losses from ObamaCare are unsustainable

    Health insurance companies are amplifying their warnings about the financial sustainability of the ObamaCare marketplaces as they seek approval for premium increases next year.

    Insurers say they are losing money on their ObamaCare plans at a rapid rate, and some have begun to talk about dropping out of the marketplaces altogether.


    “Something has to give,” said Larry Levitt, an expert on the health law at the Kaiser Family Foundation. “Either insurers will drop out or insurers will raise premiums.”

    While analysts expect the market to stabilize once premiums rise and more young, healthy people sign up, some observers have not ruled out the possibility of a collapse of the market, known in insurance parlance as a “death spiral.”

    In the short term, there is a growing likelihood that insurers will push for substantial premium increases, creating a political problem for Democrats in an election year.

    Insurers have been pounding the drum about problems with ObamaCare pricing.

    The Blue Cross Blue Shield Association released a widely publicized report last month that said new enrollees under ObamaCare had 22 percent higher medical costs than people who received coverage from employers.

    And a report from McKinsey & Company found that in the individual market, which includes the ObamaCare marketplaces, insurers lost money in 41 states in 2014, and were only profitable in 9 states.

    “We continue to have serious concerns about the sustainability of the public exchanges,” Mark Bertolini, the CEO of Aetna, said in February.

    The Aetna CEO noted concerns about the “risk pool,” which refers to the balance of healthy and sick enrollees in a plan. The makeup of the ObamaCare risk pools has been sicker and costlier than insurers hoped.

    The clearest remedy for the losses is for insurers to raise premiums, perhaps by large amounts — something Republicans have long warned would happen under the healthcare law, known as the Affordable Care Act (ACA).

    “The industry is clearly setting the stage for bigger premium increases in 2017,” said Levitt of the Kaiser Family Foundation.

    Insurers will begin filing their proposed premium increases for 2017 soon. State regulators will review those proposals and then can either accept or reject them.

    Michael Taggart, a consultant with S&P Dow Jones Indices, pointed to data from his firm showing per capita costs for insurers are spiking in the ObamaCare marketplaces.

    “We made a significant change in the rules with the ACA, and we're still working through the process to see how that market stabilizes,” Taggart said at a panel on Wednesday. “Is [a death spiral] a possibility? Sure it's a possibility. I wouldn't attempt to put a probability on it, because I think there are a lot of things going on.”

    One factor helping to prevent a death spiral is ObamaCare's tax credits, which cushion the impact of premium increases on consumers.

    “What we're likely to see is more of a market correction than any kind of death spiral,” Levitt said. “There are enough people enrolled at this point that the market is sustainable. The premiums were just too low.”

    Dr. Mandy Cohen, the chief operating officer of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), said in an interview that there is “absolutely not” a risk of a death spiral or collapse in the ObamaCare marketplaces.

    While acknowledging that “companies are needing to adjust” to the new system, she pointed to the 12.7 million people who signed up this year, 5 million of whom were new customers, as a sign of success.

    “What brings us the most confidence about the long term stability and health of the marketplace is its growth,” Cohen said.

    Another risk, should regulators reject large premium increases, is that insurers could simply decide to cut their losses and drop off the exchanges altogether.

    “Given that most carriers have experienced losses in the exchanges, often large losses, it only makes sense that most exchange insurers will request significant rate increases for 2017,” said Michael Adelberg, a former CMS official under President Obama and now a consultant at FaegreBD.

    “Market exits are not out of the question if an insurer is looking at consecutive years of losses and regulators are unable to approve rates that get the insurer to break-even.”

    The most prominent insurer eyeing the exits is UnitedHealth, which made waves in November by saying it was considering whether to leave ObamaCare in 2017 because of financial losses. The company last week announced that it is dropping its ObamaCare plans in Arkansas and Georgia, and more states could follow.

    The Department of Health and Human Services argues that the attention on UnitedHealth is overblown, given that the insurer is actually a fairly small player in the marketplaces.

    It’s more important to watch what happens with Blue Cross Blue Shield plans, which are the backbone of the ObamaCare marketplaces.

    There have been some rumblings of discontent from Blue Cross plans. The plan in New Mexico already dropped off the marketplace there last year after it lost money and state regulators rejected a proposed 51.6 percent premium increase. Now, Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina says that it might drop out of the marketplace because of its losses.

    Blue Cross of North Carolina CEO Brad Wilson said in an interview that the company had lost $400 million due to its ObamaCare business.

    “We're not alone, and I think that that also is evidence to suggest that there are systemic and fundamental challenges that we all need to have a civilized conversation about,” Wilson said.

    He said a key factor in the decision on whether to stay in the market next year will be whether regulators approve whatever premium increase the company ends up proposing so as to try to make up for its losses.

    Asked about the risk of a death spiral, Wilson said he is not worried about that happening “tomorrow,” but has concerns if the situation does not change over time.

    ...
    http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare...-unsustainable
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
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  3. #2
    In the short term, there is a growing likelihood that insurers will push for substantial premium increases, creating a political problem for Democrats in an election year.
    Just make healthcare free. Problem solved.
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  4. #3
    Odd, I thought insurance lobbyists were heavily involved with drafting Obamacare... Shouldn't the insurance companies make a (large) profit now ?
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  5. #4
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    Many lost their preferred long time doctors, due to Obamacare. I met one guy, while shopping at Staples, he lost his long time doctor due to this law. This guy was mad.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomp View Post
    Many lost their preferred long time doctors, due to Obamacare. I met one guy, while shopping at Staples, he lost his long time doctor due to this law. This guy was mad.
    I lost my long time gynecologist. At first, he wasn't accepting Obamacare and then he decided to retire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Odd, I thought insurance lobbyists were heavily involved with drafting Obamacare... Shouldn't the insurance companies make a (large) profit now ?
    They will get bailed out, big pharma will profit, we will all lose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I lost my long time gynecologist. At first, he wasn't accepting Obamacare and then he decided to retire.

    I will do it for free.
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  8. #7


    http://www.wsj.com/articles/health-l...how-1446423498

    But meanwhile (from August):

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/20...with-Obamacare

    Aetna beats profit estimates

    As more and more Americans get insured under Obamacare, health insurance giant Aetna is watching its profits soar.

    On Tuesday, Aetna Inc reported that its adjusted net profit for the second quarter was better than expected after more members joined its government plans and medical costs remained the same. Over the past few years, many large health insurance companies and hospitals have been reaping the benefits of the Affordable Care Act, a fact that observers say proves that the biggest winners of Obamacare are the healthcare giants themselves.

    “For years, insurance companies and hospitals told Americans that one reason their insurance bills were so high was because they were paying the hidden cost of medical care for the uninsured,” wrote Chad Terhune for the LA Times in December.

    “The Affordable Care Act sought to remedy much of that by unleashing the biggest expansion of insurance coverage in half a century. Ten million Americans became newly insured, and federal officials estimate that $5.7 billion in uncompensated care was wiped out this year as hospitals received more paying patients,” he continued.

    As more and more Americans get insured under Obamacare, health insurance giant Aetna is watching its profits soar.

    And more paying patients have translated into higher profits and soaring stock shares for insurers, observers note.

    "Among five of the largest health insurers – Aetna, Anthem, Cigna, Humana, and UnitedHealth Group – their stocks are up an average of 107% over the past two years," Ed Snyder, a financial planner at Oaktree Financial Advisors in Carmel, Indiana, told the website Main St.

    "ACA-compliant plans are required to include certain benefits, and the insurance companies are pricing those benefits into the plans, which means premiums are increasing," Mr. Snyder added. "In a lot of cases, the insurance company's claims liability is not increasing, though, and that ends up being profit."

    Over the past five years, as the five largest insurers consistently beat the S&P 500, overall profits rose substantially.
    More at link.

  9. #8
    Yes, of course, they "warn" of losses. That's because they want even more money.

    The foolish progressive talks about everyone being covered by magic. People are being "covered" because they are covering themselves. I have to buy a product I neither wanted or needed. So now, my money goes to an insurance company. Multiply that by thousands of people like me and you have multiple transfer payments. No different than welfare.
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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Odd, I thought insurance lobbyists were heavily involved with drafting Obamacare... Shouldn't the insurance companies make a (large) profit now ?
    Top CEOs must be in on the whole "business plan" of crashing their own industry in order to get bailed-out/eventually nationalized.

    Think Henry Paulson and the housing bubble.
    Donald Trump > SJW ass-tears

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    I lost my long time gynecologist. At first, he wasn't accepting Obamacare and then he decided to retire.
    My Dr retired . I had to make a cash deal like I had previously with the guy who took over his practice .

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Odd, I thought insurance lobbyists were heavily involved with drafting Obamacare... Shouldn't the insurance companies make a (large) profit now ?
    The profit was never that large , percentage wise , less than a Mnfg co . It is volume they need , and , yeah they wrote it and there are things that kick in for them in it as well to prevent losses .

  14. #12
    I will say that one of the nasty things I've seen is the "give them a chance" clause most of these plans have. We check a patient's insurance up front, but if it says they are in the grace period to pay their premiums, we still have to take them. Then their policy is retroactively cancelled. We've already provided the care. We don't get paid by the insurer. We wind up billing the patient, who already has a pretty established history of not paying things (like their premium). It goes to collections. We still don't get paid. We're out thousands of dollars.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    They will get bailed out, big pharma will profit, we will all lose.
    That was my first thought.
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Then their policy is retroactively cancelled.
    Da Fuq you say? That's impressive.
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  17. #15
    A lot of people are having to insure themselves, at high premiums, and take a cut in hours at work so that the employer doesn't have to cover it. In other words, those employers that didn't provide health insurance are still not doing it but are forced to reduce the number of hours that they allow you to work...watfm.
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  18. #16
    I'm pretty confident that this situation was forseeable and is/was NOT accidental.



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  20. #17
    Designed to fail...been saying that all along.

    And Killery or Bern will be right in line pushing "single payer" government run healthcare.

    Which is what theye wanted all along.

    And if you think healthcare is costly now, whoo boy, just wait until it's "free".

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More at link.
    Annnnd here's Zip, to tell us all is well, not to worry, move along now.

  22. #19
    And more paying patients have translated into higher profits and soaring stock shares for insurers, observers note.

    "Among five of the largest health insurers – Aetna, Anthem, Cigna, Humana, and UnitedHealth Group – their stocks are up an average of 107% over the past two years," Ed Snyder, a financial planner at Oaktree Financial Advisors in Carmel, Indiana, told the website Main St
    And why not, initially?

    Government stuck a gun to everybody's head and said "buy these products, or else!"

    Stands to reason there would be a bunch of people buying your $#@! at that point, no?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by idiom View Post
    Da Fuq you say? That's impressive.
    It can happen with commercial policies, too, but the grace period is much shorter.
    I wish I were joking.

    Under the Affordable Care Act (ACA), if a patient who receives an advance premium tax credit does not pay his or her health insurance premiums in full, he or she enters a 90-day "grace period." During the first month of the grace period, the patient continues to have health insurance coverage, and the patient's health insurer will pay claims for health care services provided to the patient during that time. However, if the patient enters the second or third month of the grace period, the health insurer may pend claims for services provided to the patient during that time. If the patient pays his or her premiums in full before the end of the grace period, the patient retains health insurance coverage for the second and third months of the grace period, and the insurer will pay the pended claims. But if the patient does not pay his or her health insurance premiums in full before the end of the grace period, the health insurer will not extend coverage for the second or third months of the grace period and will deny claims for services provided during that time. In this case, a patient is then responsible for paying the entire bill for services rendered during the second and third months.
    So if someone hasn't paid their premium in 89 days, they will still show up as insured, we will render care, but by the time the bill is submitted to their insurer, it's 100% patient responsibility --- a patient who already had to be under an ObamaCare plan and didn't pay their premiums for a few months. How likely is it they are going to pay thousands to us for services rendered? Add to this that we might still be seeing the patient, which means we then have to figure out whether or not they can be safely discharged or transferred to some other form or care.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  24. #21
    They lobbied for it. It's Gingerich/Romneycare: the corporatist answer Hillarycare. Now it's called Obamacare and it's called mis-called socialism. This whining by the corporations is to get the republicans to make it more "free-market" friendly in which the corporations pocket more money. It's a bunch of garbage.

  25. #22
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    Insurance is reverse gambling. The entire industry is bureaucratic waste.



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