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Thread: Mom, 51 - son, 32: In love and want children.

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Human-Animal Chimeras Are Gestating on U.S. Research Farms
    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/5...esearch-farms/
    Again, you're talking about taking an already-produced human stem cell and giving it a source of sustenance to grow. The human stem cell isn't being produced by the animal, nor could it ever be. That's an awfully far cry from getting the genetic information from one animal to mix with another such that one or the other can reproduce an entire creature successfully. The genetic info is rejected by the embryo as soon as it recognizes that it is not the same kind of animal. If there were some way to get it to do something, it certainly wouldn't produce anything viable. They're having a hard enough time getting donkeys and horses to reproduce, and it would be nothing short of a miracle, literally, the work of God, if the scientists were able to literally splice every gene and manufacture a completely different creature from scratch that would grow inside another animal and be accepted by it. You can't just mix and match DNA to get different things. You have to divine the information onto the DNA so that every gene knows exactly what its function is in the bigger picture and it simply won't happen if the bigger picture isn't something that matches with the type of animal that's producing it.

    You can get a human organ to grow inside a pig, for instance, but the pig will never use the human organ as one of its own.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 04-10-2016 at 09:41 AM.
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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. The differences between humans and chimps are vast. We share 50% of our DNA with bananas and yet that doesn't mean we are half banana, so it's not just about the matching of the right pairs but also the information those base pairs carry, which can't simply be rearranged to make completely different functions for a completely different animal. The information must already be stored, and it cannot be imposed on the DNA. Whatever percentage they're throwing out now doesn't take that into account and I know many people believe it is possible because evolution, but that has nothing to do with the current scientific knowledge of how to do these things. Your statement is nothing but speculation.
    You should know how meaningless that fact that humans and bananas share 50% of our DNA. This is because just a tiny fraction of human genes is expressed in the final product. A lot of the DNA we carry are just left overs from our evolution. I think about 98% plus of the genes that supposed to code for a protein is not actually not coding for anything, so when you remove the junk DNA portion of our genome, I doubt that number is still 50% between humans and bananas.

    Also something about genes is positioning on the DNA strand, think how black people and white people have the same DNA to produce the same skin pigment melanin but black people produce more of the pigment than white people. Its the same gene and different positioning. So you get a a bunch of genetic scientists on the job, fund the hell out of them and with some time, they would work out the kinks and how to rearrange the genes to produce a viable human-monkey hybrid that would survive till delivery.

  4. #93
    Hybridization between humans and apes has been tried for a long time. It's not something that's going to occur naturally, which means it would require a great deal of motivation to even try to make it happen. I hope people aren't trying to build humanzees ala Stalin these days, but I could be wrong. I also doubt people would pour more time and money into that than manipulating existing knowledge of the human genome to "purify" it or otherwise change naturally emerging traits.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Hybridization between humans and apes has been tried for a long time. It's not something that's going to occur naturally, which means it would require a great deal of motivation to even try to make it happen. I hope people aren't trying to build humanzees ala Stalin these days, but I could be wrong. I also doubt people would pour more time and money into that than manipulating existing knowledge of the human genome to "purify" it or otherwise change naturally emerging traits.
    Tried how and how long ago was this try? breeding wild animals in captivity is hard already as it is. Human artificial insemination was perfected just a few decades ago, human and chimp DNA has just been mapped very recently. I think there hasn't been any meaningful effort in this regard because of the limited knowledge and technology the people trying had to work with. Whatever they were doing in the early 1900 and before cannot even be counted as an attempt. With the technology we have today, I think it would work.

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Tried how and how long ago was this try? breeding wild animals in captivity is hard already as it is. Human artificial insemination was perfected just a few decades ago, human and chimp DNA has just been mapped very recently. I think there hasn't been any meaningful effort in this regard because of the limited knowledge and technology the people trying had to work with. Whatever they were doing in the early 1900 and before cannot even be counted as an attempt. With the technology we have today, I think it would work.
    You can force some cells from one creature into another quite easily, but it doesn't make it a real hybrid. Creatures like mules, ligers, zorses, etc. wind up happening without outside help from time to time. It could be done in labs but that would only be to replicate something already observed. Despite centuries' worth of rumors about human/ape babies, nearly all of them have been debunked.

    If you read what I said, it isn't that I think it'd be impossible to create something that was a mixture of human/ape, it's that I don't think it would be pursued without a very strong motivation. Any breakthroughs made would face revulsion and ridicule. It'd be smarter to simply continue trying to understand the human genome and address chromosomal abnormalities that result in disease or reduced quality of life.

    Just my $0.02.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post

    Just my $0.02.
    I never underestimate the boundaries of evil.
    And there are minds out there as sick and twisted as they are brilliant.

    I actually expect some deliberate mutations,, in both animals and humans.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    First of all, I didn't call you a name. Secondly, growing human tissue on a foreign host is a long way from reproduction. Do you even remotely understand the mechanisms that are involved in reproduction? The genetic differences simply won't allow for such cross-breeding to occur. We're talking about thousands of base pairs difference where 3 would be fatal. It's simply not possible, and yes, you can refuse to be an ignoramus and stop believing $#@! just because you don't understand it. I'm beginning to wonder if it's a generational thing, since my dad would often use the same argument of "Well, where do you draw the line!" You're just so star-struck with science that you can't hear reason.

    And despite all this technological weirdness we've encountered in the last few decades, people tend to forget about things which are taken for granted. Even though we've made some seemingly miraculous discoveries, the various laws of nature which have held us in place for so long haven't changed a bit, so there are obviously some things that simply can't be overcome with enough grant money.

    You can tell me I've been desensitized to this age of discovery, but I really haven't seen anything that literally defies explanation as such an experiment like the one you're suggesting would. You're making it way more strange than it actually is by projecting your own ignorance onto it. Nothing that has been done so far is really that mind-boggling, including the idea that the skin can be grafted onto foreign sources of nutrition (which isn't really that amazing anyway).
    If I had told you, in 1960, what was going to be able to be accomplished now (proved, being done, millions of times a year) with genetic modification and engineering, you'd have said exactly the same thing.

    I'll be gone.

    But you'll be here when it comes to pass.

    And with any luck, you'll have the honesty to admit you were oh so wrong.

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    This all started with the Texans.

    Fixed.
    I am the spoon.

  11. #99
    eww ewww ewwww ewwwww
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    If I had told you, in 1960, what was going to be able to be accomplished now (proved, being done, millions of times a year) with genetic modification and engineering, you'd have said exactly the same thing.

    I'll be gone.

    But you'll be here when it comes to pass.

    And with any luck, you'll have the honesty to admit you were oh so wrong.
    You're really going out on a limb there. Honestly, I think our personalities are different. I'm more skeptical than you are about things in the world and you just use your ignorance as a way to say "I told you so" when something you did not deny does happen. As for me living in 1960 and saying the same things, it really depends on what you're talking about because, unlike you, I do have a basic understanding of these things and I don't use my ignorance as a way to blur the line between reality and fiction. Not science fiction, mind you, just fiction. Science doesn't belong anywhere near the word fiction as it applies to what you're talking about.

    The "So much has happened, so there must be no end to it" line of reasoning carries no intellectual weight and is logically invalid and deeply flawed thinking. You've simply decided it's better to be an all-accepting ignoramus than an occasionally wrong skeptic.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 04-10-2016 at 05:21 PM.
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  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    You should know how meaningless that fact that humans and bananas share 50% of our DNA. This is because just a tiny fraction of human genes is expressed in the final product. A lot of the DNA we carry are just left overs from our evolution. I think about 98% plus of the genes that supposed to code for a protein is not actually not coding for anything, so when you remove the junk DNA portion of our genome, I doubt that number is still 50% between humans and bananas.
    The thing is, you don't know where that DNA is from, but you ASSUME it's left-overs from evolution. DNA losing function is not proof that we are related to bananas. Is that what you people are calling science these days? Honestly, this is just evidence of the fact that we know so little. We don't even know what our own DNA is for. Heck, we barely even know anything about how our brains work and yet you think we can figure THAT out?

    Also something about genes is positioning on the DNA strand, think how black people and white people have the same DNA to produce the same skin pigment melanin but black people produce more of the pigment than white people. Its the same gene and different positioning. So you get a a bunch of genetic scientists on the job, fund the hell out of them and with some time, they would work out the kinks and how to rearrange the genes to produce a viable human-monkey hybrid that would survive till delivery.
    Just like that, huh? Because black people use the same gene to produce more pigmented skin, that means if you get a bunch of scientists together with unlimited funding, that means they have the power to "rearrange" (there's that word again) the genes to produce a viable human-monkey hybrid. Now you've really jumped the shark. I just can't describe how stupid that sounds to any reasoning mind. Just because black people use the same gene to produce more pigment, that doesn't mean you can add completely different functions to one animal or another by rearranging the genes. That's not how it works. Of course you can produce more pigment with the same gene that is DESIGNED TO PRODUCE THAT PIGMENT.

    This is where people just begin to abandon all reason. They theorize about things that have never been proven to be possible and call it science even though it's about the least scientific you can get. Just because you've been told that monkeys and humans are related, that doesn't mean using your imagination is suddenly more scientific than being skeptical.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 04-10-2016 at 05:20 PM.
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  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    The thing is, you don't know where that DNA is from, but you ASSUME it's left-overs from evolution. DNA losing function is not proof that we are related to bananas. Is that what you people are calling science these days? Honestly, this is just evidence of the fact that we know so little. We don't even know what our own DNA is for. Heck, we barely even know anything about how our brains work and yet you think we can figure THAT out?



    Just like that, huh? Because black people use the same gene to produce more pigmented skin, that means if you get a bunch of scientists together with unlimited funding, that means they have the power to "rearrange" (there's that word again) the genes to produce a viable human-monkey hybrid. Now you've really jumped the shark. I just can't describe how stupid that sounds to any reasoning mind. Just because black people use the same gene to produce more pigment, that doesn't mean you can add completely different functions to one animal or another by rearranging the genes. That's not how it works. Of course you can produce more pigment with the same gene that is DESIGNED TO PRODUCE THAT PIGMENT.

    This is where people just begin to abandon all reason. They theorize about things that have never been proven to be possible and call it science even though it's about the least scientific you can get. Just because you've been told that monkeys and humans are related, that doesn't mean using your imagination is suddenly more scientific than being skeptical.
    Oh, now I remember you are one of those who don't believe in evolution. My point about melanin is that chimps also produce the same melanin unlike the banana. Just like with melanin, humans and chimps share a lot of traits together. And when you have that much in common, it is much easier to bridge the gap.

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Oh, now I remember you are one of those who don't believe in evolution. My point about melanin is that chimps also produce the same melanin unlike the banana. Just like with melanin, humans and chimps share a lot of traits together. And when you have that much in common, it is much easier to bridge the gap.
    Yes, chimps share more in common with us than bananas. Is that really the best evidence you've got? Although chimps are more similar to humans than bananas (one is a plant, the other two are animals), there are still a lot of differences and science still hasn't been able to overcome those differences with even much, much more similar hybrids of the same species. We don't even know where to start with humans/chimps.

    My point wasn't that we could never breed a human with a banana (although we can't). The point was that sharing DNA in common doesn't really mean anything when the information carried on the DNA only makes sense in the context of the larger organism and if it differs too much from the original, then it's no longer valid and will die.
    Last edited by PaulConventionWV; 04-10-2016 at 06:09 PM.
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  16. #104
    ummmmm,. not good. I'd be totally okay if someone put them down.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulIsGreat View Post
    ummmmm,. not good. I'd be totally okay if someone put them down.
    Micro-aggression! :P They're Brits, man-it's their culture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    You're really going out on a limb there. Honestly, I think our personalities are different. I'm more skeptical than you are about things in the world and you just use your ignorance as a way to say "I told you so" when something you did not deny does happen. As for me living in 1960 and saying the same things, it really depends on what you're talking about because, unlike you, I do have a basic understanding of these things and I don't use my ignorance as a way to blur the line between reality and fiction. Not science fiction, mind you, just fiction. Science doesn't belong anywhere near the word fiction as it applies to what you're talking about.

    The "So much has happened, so there must be no end to it" line of reasoning carries no intellectual weight and is logically invalid and deeply flawed thinking. You've simply decided it's better to be an all-accepting ignoramus than an occasionally wrong skeptic.
    Yah yah yah, you already made it clear that I'm a dunce and you are my intellectual superior because, well I guess because you say so.

    So I guess you will not be honest then...

    Oh well, carry on.

  20. #107
    And you better embrace and accept and celebrate the diversity.

    Born this way!


    Disgusted by incest? Genetic Sexual Attraction is real and on the rise

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/fam...al-and-on-the/



    Isn’t it disgusting? Isn’t it funny? The woman who fell in love with her son.

    But laugh I did not, as I read the tale of Kim West – the 51-year-old who entered a romantic relationship with her child 30 years after giving him up for adoption.

    Her story was splashed over the newspapers last week after she revealed how a reunion between the pair sparked an intense romance. Now they want to get married and start a family.

    Across the internet, West and her toy boy lover were treated as circus freaks, called “sick on every level”. Some even demanded that West be sectioned and now it’s emerged they’ve gone into hiding fearing a jail sentence.

    It’s interesting that the public was so outraged, because the couple’s story is far from unique. In fact, a number of family romances have emerged over the last decade – and I can’t see them stopping any time soon. There have been cases of grandparents settling down with grandchildren, fathers and daughters in love, and even twins twinned up.

    What makes all these relationships tick isn’t love, or looks, or destiny, but – more likely – Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA). It’s the phenomenon no one wants to talk about - because it raises a taboo topic: incest.



    But it’s real – and with advances in fertility options, something we need to get our heads round. Fast.

    GSA describes a powerful sexual attraction that occurs when biological relatives – parent and offspring, siblings or half siblings or first and second cousins – meet for the first time as adults. It was first identified in the 1980s by Barbara Gonyo, who fell madly in love with her son. After they reunited in adulthood, Gonyo struggled for 13 years to break off feelings for him.

    That’s what GSA is: a struggle. When people criticise West, they overestimate her degree of control in the situation. Often GSA sufferers feel powerless – as if their feelings are impossible to change. There have been heartbreaking cases of families broken apart by GSA. It’s an affliction; a curse for all those involved.



    Quite why GSA occurs is still up for discussion. There isn’t a great deal of research into the area, because who wants a PhD in incest? Some researchers have hypothesised, however, that an effect in infancy protects against GSA. When families live closely together, they become desensitised to each other as sexual prospects. This desensitisation effect is said to happen between birth and age six. Without it, and when relatives meet later in life, GSA can occur. Evidence from the Post-Adoption Centre and University College London suggests that GSA it happens in 50 percent of reunion cases.

    Put in this context, West becomes far less of a freak and more of regularity. It is only her pride in her relationship that has perplexed others, as many GSA couples feel deeply upset about what’s happened to them. There are even communities online for them to anonymously discuss their relationships.

    In the future, I hope they won’t have to hide away. I think that will be less likely as a result of increases in fertility options, which have dramatically upped the potential for GSA cases.



    Perhaps one of the biggest causes for concern is egg and sperm donation. Over the last few decades, it has never been easier for organisations – and individuals - to dish out large quantities of eggs and sperm to different locations. The last Human Fertilisation & Embryology (HFEA) report shows that sperm donations, especially, have been rising since 2005 – with many coming from the US and Denmark.

    This seed sprinkling will essentially mean lots of children go through life without ever knowing their biological father and/ or mother, and other important close relatives, in the time where the desensitisation effect should happen.



    Should they never meet with their (unknown) biological family, then they will never put themselves at risk of GSA. But such reunions have become much easier – especially as new rules brought out by the HFEA mean that any child conceived on or after April 2005 can now seek information on their parents when they turn 16 years old. This will inevitably mean more children discovering their biological relatives in adulthood, with the potential for hundreds, if not thousands, of more GSA cases.

    And when these individuals do find that they have suddenly fallen in love with Mummy, Daddy, or Cousin Jimmy, there will be very limited routes to help them. Just as there are for Kim West.

    Instead of mocking this tale of motherly love (gone too far), I wish people though of West as an opportunity to consider GSA, and how we can prevent and treat it in the future. Those who succumb to GSA are not sickos, or freaks, but victims who desperately need help and understanding. Their feelings are not controllable, but with scientific research and support, we can give them some degree in control over this devastating affliction. And stop the cases we know are bound to come and keep coming.

  21. #108
    Disgusted by incest?

    Why?
    I find the disgust curious.

    Who do you think you descended from?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yah yah yah, you already made it clear that I'm a dunce and you are my intellectual superior because, well I guess because you say so.

    So I guess you will not be honest then...

    Oh well, carry on.
    What's honest? Admitting you're right and I'm wrong? Admitting that your conjecture is better than my skepticism?

    I never even insinuated that I was intellectually superior to you, but I've seen it before. You willfully blind yourself because you think it's better to be an all-accepting ignoramus than it is to be an occasionally wrong skeptic. You're not stupid because of it, but you are ignorant. My dad is exactly the same way.
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  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    Despite centuries' worth of rumors about human/ape babies, nearly all of them have been debunked.
    Well, here is what I want to know. Why an apostrophe in centuries'? I'll not challenge your punctuation because, admittedly, I'm horrible with it but explain this $#@!, please. Thank you.
    Last edited by Natural Citizen; 04-12-2016 at 06:13 PM.

  24. #111

    Thumbs down

    I am not reading anything in this thread I am just responding to the title:

    gross yuck ewwww


    Sorry AF this is awful.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulConventionWV View Post
    What's honest? Admitting you're right and I'm wrong? Admitting that your conjecture is better than my skepticism?

    I never even insinuated that I was intellectually superior to you, but I've seen it before. You willfully blind yourself because you think it's better to be an all-accepting ignoramus than it is to be an occasionally wrong skeptic. You're not stupid because of it, but you are ignorant. My dad is exactly the same way.
    And I've seen your type before as well: scared people whistling past the graveyard that can not, will not accept and process information that is right in front of them, because in order to do that, it would mean re-adjusting their entire mental architecture and outlook on life.

    But I understand, that's a scary prospect.

    Carry on.



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Working Poor View Post
    I am not reading anything in this thread I am just responding to the title:

    gross yuck ewwww


    Sorry AF this is awful.
    Come on mothers. Admit it, after letting junior suck on your tits all those years, you fantasize about 4th base some day.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Michael View Post
    Well, here is what I want to know. Why an apostrophe in centuries'? I'll not challenge your punctuation because, admittedly, I'm horrible with it but explain this $#@!, please. Thank you.
    My brain misfires sometimes (much like this site, since this is the second time I've had to type this).

    I started out typing "a century's worth," but then decided it was more than a single century's worth, so I changed it to "centuries' worth" without thinking. It's one of those things that's not wrong, but I don't usually see it written with an apostrophe anymore.
    Genuine, willful, aggressive ignorance is the one sure way to tick me off. I wish I could say you were trolling. I know better, and it's just sad.

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaWV View Post
    My brain misfires sometimes (much like this site, since this is the second time I've had to type this).

    I started out typing "a century's worth," but then decided it was more than a single century's worth, so I changed it to "centuries' worth" without thinking. It's one of those things that's not wrong, but I don't usually see it written with an apostrophe anymore.
    Oh, I didn't see that you explained it once already. I figured it out anyway after I looked at it better. Yes, it does work, though. Anyway, I was just curious. And there really aren't any particular search terms to look it up so I asked. Thanks.

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