Transgender weightlifter Hubbard at the Olympics

[Firestarter]

It is almost certain that the 43-year-old tranny Laurel Hubbard will compete at the coming (?) summer Olympics.
I tip Laurel Hubbard as a favourite for an Olympic medal in the 87+ kg category. I guess as a man, he wouldn't stand a change of winning a medal.

Only in his thirties, he got a sex change operation to become a "female transgender".
At the 2017 Australian International & Australian Open in Melbourne, it competed at the heaviest 90 kg+ category, winning the gold medal as a woman at a bodyweight of 132 kg. It became the first tranny to win an international weightlifting title for New Zealand.

To call this a "man" would be a horrible example of "bigoted" "hate speech", but I guess we are allowed to call it an ugly "woman"...


There are reasons to believe that some people would do just about anything to win a medal in sports, even taking all sorts of doping to enhance once performance at the risk of being caught, and with negative effects on one's overall health, so I don't find Hubbard's argument very convincing.

If anyone thinks that a person would be willing to change one’s gender just to win at sport clearly does not understand that individual’s struggles and is far too quick making small minded, bigoted judgements. Look at your own behaviours before casting such ugly aspersions ...

https://www.rt.com/sport/523043-laur...okyo-olympics/

[Anti Globalist]

Transgenders should only be competing against other transgenders.

[TheTexan]

Such a brave woman.

[Brian4Liberty]

Transgenders should only be competing against other transgenders.

Good idea.

[Anti Globalist]

Good idea.

Now if only leftists would get behind it.

[Firestarter]

Now if only leftists would get behind it.

As far as I can tell, the transgender thing goes even too far for most socialists.

Feminists get really upset, calling this unfair competition, going as far as to say that transgender "women" shouldn't go to the women's toilet or be incarcerated at a women's prison.
If feminists argue for ultimate equality for women compared to men, shouldn't they be happy that they get to compete with trannies in sports?

[Firestarter]

There are some differences in testosteron level between "biological" males and females; but this isn't unfair or something...

[dannno]

[Firestarter]

This makes it even more bizarre. According to the IOC, trannies can even compete in woman's sport, without a sex change operation....
So let's see: a man that is not near the top level in male sports but still better than women, can simply take hormones to suppress its testosteron level for a year, claiming to be really a woman, and then win a gold medal!

In 2015, the IOC changed their transgender guidelines, meaning athletes who transition from male to female can compete in the women’s category without requiring surgery to remove their testes – provided their total testosterone level in serum is kept below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months. While these guidelines exist under the guise of creating a fair playing field, Worley says they do anything but. The 2015 changes were in response to the legal challenges faced by the IOC, and were not based on scientific research, she said. The policy has been challenged by researchers who found a person who had undergone puberty as a male, retained a physical advantage.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/24-...-really-means/

[dannno]

This makes it even more bizarre. According to the IOC, trannies can even compete in woman's sport, without a sex change operation....
So let's see: a man that is not near the top level in male sports but still better than women, can simply take hormones to suppress its testosteron level for a year, claiming to be really a woman, and then win a gold medal!



https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/24-...-really-means/

You must not watch very much right wing commentary, that's been discussed for years. Also hope you caught the video I posted.

[Firestarter]

You must not watch very much right wing commentary, that's been discussed for years.

I didn't think the whole article was any good, but posted it for reference. As it is impossible to find "good" articles, I really don't have a choice...
If I understand correctly, transgender "woman" Hubbard still has testes.

Also hope you caught the video I posted.

While I agree with the sentiments of the video, I often think that this whole transgender thing, you have the "right" to chose your sex, is so preposterous that sarcasm isn't even needed.
Unfortunately I don't find it "funny" at all...

In basically all sports where the level is decided by strength and speed, the difference between men and women is huge.
That's besides in some sports length is important, like basketball and volleyball, where the difference is arguably even larger.

[Firestarter]

While I think that born men shouldn't be allowed to change their gender and then compete in women's sports, the following is a bit more difficult to judge.
There are "intersex", "CIS gender" women that were born with "high" testosterone levels that aren't allowed to compete at the Olympics in the 400, 800 and 1500 meter distances. So these women don't have an advantage in the other running distances?

For these "CIS" women the maximum testosterone level is (only) 5 nanomoles per liter, but Hubbard is allowed to win a medal in weightlifting at double the level of testosterone (10 nanomoles per litre): https://apnews.com/article/namibia-a...8a1e0ab346c20b

[TheTexan]

I don't know why women would even bother having a strength competition.

They should stick to their beauty pageants or something else (?) that women are generally good at.

[sparebulb]

I think these trannies competing in women's sports is great.

How many young females reject the notion of preferential hiring of unqualified women and minorities in the workplace?

Undoubtable, not many.

So lets hear it for actually placing better qualified competitors in the field.

[TheTexan]

I think these trannies competing in women's sports is great.

How many young females reject the notion of preferential hiring of unqualified women and minorities in the workplace?

Undoubtable, not many.

So lets hear it for actually placing better qualified competitors in the field.

So, by workplaces filling their women-quotas with men in dresses, it leads overall to a more male work force, and therefore a more qualified work force.

Interesting hypothesis.

I think I would still prefer actual females to fill the company's female quota. Part of the reason that quota exists is to have female coworkers to hit on

[RJB]

I don't know why women would even bother having a strength competition.

They should stick to their beauty pageants or something else (?) that women are generally good at.

They should make pornography an Olympic sport.

[TheTexan]

They should make pornography an Olympic sport.

Thanks, I knew there was something else that women were good at. I just forgot what it was.

[Dr.3D]

They should make pornography an Olympic sport.

Sammich making.

[TheTexan]

Sammich making.

It's still somewhat dominated by women. Probably for not much longer

https://worldfoodchampionships.com/scores/competition/5

[Firestarter]

They should stick to their beauty pageants or something else (?) that women are generally good at.

Maybe strange that I have more respect for trannies that do their best to win beauty contests than compete with (born) women in sports...

In 2018, the tranny Ángela Maria Ponce Camacho became Miss Spain. It became the first "openly" (?) transgender "woman" competing for the title of Miss Universe.

NV-Trans-Queeer-wins-Miss-Silver-State-USA-quot-beauty-contest

[Firestarter]

As a boy/man our hero was named Gavin. Laurel's father Richard 'Dick' Hubbard is a wealthy cereal manufacturer who is the former mayor of New Zealand’s largest city Auckland.
See Gavin Hubbard (right) at 35 years old, shortly before he transitioned to transgender woman, with its parents.



Some say that the testosterone level of 10 nanomoles per litre is unfair towards born females, which is at least 5 times more than a biological woman.
Some say that Hubbard at +130 kg also has an advantage as its closest born female competition barely weighs 100 kg.

Belgium's superheavy weightlifter Anna Vanbellinghen, who will likely compete against Hubbard, said that this is “like a bad joke” for women competitors:

I am aware that defining a legal frame for transgender participation in sports is very difficult since there is an infinite variety of situations and that reaching an entirely satisfactory solution, from either side of the debate, is probably impossible. However, anyone that has trained weightlifting at a high level knows this to be true in their bones: this particular situation is unfair to the sport and to the athletes.

.
At 43, Hubbard is the oldest weightlifter at the Olympics: https://japantoday.com/category/toky...htlifting-team
(https://archive.is/eGs89)


To put this age into perspective, the oldest man to ever win gold at the Olympics in weightlifting (competing against men) is Pljukfelder Rudolf from the USSR at 36 years of age: http://cev.org.br/biblioteca/researc...weightlifting/

[Invisible Man]

If anyone thinks that a person would be willing to change one’s gender just to win at sport clearly does not understand that individual’s struggles and is far too quick making small minded, bigoted judgements. Look at your own behaviours before casting such ugly aspersions ...

I don't hear anybody saying that's what Mr. Hubbard's motivation for the sex change was. But the complaint about the unfair advantage he has competing against women in a competition that is supposed to be exclusively for women to compete against other women stands regardless what his motivation was.

And while we're on the topic of motivation, let's run with that for a second. If something as momentous as competing in the Olympics (which most competitors at that level make great sacrifices to do to the point that it basically defines their lives) is not a reason someone could be willing to surgically remove their genitals, then there probably is no good reason to do such a thing.

[Invisible Man]

I don't know why women would even bother having a strength competition.

I agree. With no sarcasm or irony intended.

One of the silver linings of the recent spate of this kind of thing is that is does call attention to question of why we have women's sports at all. It's not like it really shows any kind of equality with men in those arenas if the winners haven't established any more than that they're good in comparison to other women.

[sparebulb]

I think I would still prefer actual females to fill the company's female quota. Part of the reason that quota exists is to have female coworkers to hit on

This would be easily solved by enacting workplace regulations requiring you to hit on the tranny employees that have identified themselves as female.

There is no problem that can't be solved through legislation.

[Danke]

This would be easily solved by enacting workplace regulations requiring you to hit on the tranny employees that have identified themselves as female.

There is no problem that can't be solved through legislation.

I doubt @TheTexan would welcome the additional competition.

[dannno]

Unfortunately I don't find it "funny" at all...

Wow, I guess some people are born without a sense of humor. It doesn't get much more funny than that clip.

[dannno]

While I agree with the sentiments of the video, I often think that this whole transgender thing, you have the "right" to chose your sex, is so preposterous that sarcasm isn't even needed.

It is important for people on both sides not to talk past each other, so let's get the terminology straight.

With the whole transgender thing, they believe that they have a right to choose their gender. Gender is not the same as sex. Gender is a collection of identifiable traits typically held by people of each sex. However, instead of using the terms male and female, gendered traits are considered masculine or femine. Therefore a person who is biologically male can have feminine traits, and a person who is born biologically female can have masculine traits.

So for example, on the extreme end, fighting, hunting and sports competition would typically be activities that are gender masculine. Cooking, cleaning, taking care of children, knitting and fashion design are typically activities considered femine.

Ultimately, a girl who exhibits masculine traits when they are young was always referred to as a tomboy. This did not change what gender they were. In fact, defining somebody as a specific gender is going to be subjective because it is the trait that is considered masculine or femine. Every society is different, but in the US and most places in the world, historically people take on the gender of the biological sex they are born.

Society chooses what gender people are, and individuals in that society who disagree can attempt to convince their society that they belong to change that definition in order for their gender traits to figure more into their gender than their biological sex. That is what is happening currently with the trans movement. They want to remove biological sex from being a determining factor, and let the individuals choose, rather than the society.

Some societies have historically had different sets of genders, like the Native Americans. They didn't let people "choose" their gender so much as they allowed them to choose their gender traits, and their gender was assigned by society. The trans movement now is trying to allow each individual to choose, which complicates things a lot because every individual will have a different definition and be able to come up with their own genders. The other issue is the trans movement is trying to force people to have their way using the state instead of convincing them voluntarily.

The big issues are of course the fact that many societies have bathrooms and locker rooms that are separated by biological sex - not gender. As well as sports teams. That's what the trans movement gets wrong. The bathrooms and sports teams are not separate by gender, they are separated by biological sex, and there are good reasons for that.

[TheTexan]

I doubt @TheTexan would welcome the additional competition.

In all seriousness I'm already too popular with the trannies. Apparently they're really into straight people. It's like a game to them.

They probably wouldn't be very interested in someone like you.

[Firestarter]

As a teenager, Gavin Hubbard was a top national weightlifter in New Zealand, but in 2001 stopped competing. After transitioning to transgender woman in 2012 aged 35, Laurel Hubbard in 2017 competed again at international level against women.

According to a poll, 96% of Daily Mail readers say Laurel Hubbard shouldn't be allowed to compete as a woman.
And more than 21,000 signed a petition calling for the IOC's transgender policy to be pulled: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mpetition.html

[Working Poor]

I seem to recall Native Americans calling trans people "2 Spirits". I think first they may need an exorcism then psych treatment of some kind.

Maybe our Uncle @oyarde could come and weigh in on this.