Page 15 of 19 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 421 to 450 of 565

Thread: My first Divine Liturgy experience.

  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Biblefundyfun View Post
    I did a form of martial arts when I was younger and dumber that was called the true way as well. What do you mean by "liturgical life" Christ is the way, the New Testament church where called followers of the way. Act 22.4

    What is the gospel of holy tradition? You do realise all the apostles or most of them where beaten stoned, boiled and nailed to crosses until death don't you, as where approx another one hundred million after them, mostly by Rome. Do you plan on following that tradition too?
    Read this:


    and this:

    I haven't read this one, but it uses the KJV instead of NKJV, which the OSB uses, if you prefer that:



    I'll never have time to write all that you want to know out. Also talk to a priest at your local parish.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 06-01-2016 at 01:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #422
    Pretty ordinary day. Epistle Phillippians 2:5-11 gospel Luke 10:38-42; 11:27-28 Transfer of the Feast of the Dormition of the Theotokos. Homily focused on being selfless and focusing on helping others in the manner of Christ in today's readings. I'll upload a recording ASAP. My godmommy got me a get well present. <3
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  4. #423
    Mystery or Memorial? Sacrament or Symbol?

    SEPTEMBER 2, 2016
    BY FR. JOHN A. PECK
    LINK(the formatting is much better at link)


    What is the Lord’s Supper? What is the Eucharist? Was it always understood as a Sacrament? Throughout the history of Christianity, the overwhelming majority of Christians have consistently believed that Jesus Christ, in a mystery, imparts His Body and Blood to His people though the vehicle of the Lord’s Supper. Bypassing all the Biblical references, here is a small, non-exhaustive sampling of what they’ve had to say in every generation. If you’re going to read any of them, please read them all.

    Ignatius of Antioch AD 35-107

    “Mark ye those who hold strange doctrines touch the grace of Jesus which came to us, how they are contrary to the mind of God… They abstain from Eucharist and prayer, because they allow not that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, which flesh suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up.”

    “Assemble yoruselves together in common… breaking the bread, which the medicine of immortality and the antidote that we should not die but live forever in Jesus Christ.”

    Ignatius to the Smyrnaens, 6.2; Ignatius to teh Ephesians 20.2


    Justin Martyr AD 100-165

    “We do not receive these as common bread or common drink. But juest as our Savior Jesus Christ was made flesh through the Word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food which has been Eucharized by the word of prayer from Him is the flesh and blood of the Incarnate Jesus.”

    First Apology 66.2


    Irenaeus of Lyons AD 130-200

    “For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly; so also our bodies, when they receive the Eucharist are no longer corruptible, having the hope of resurrection to eternity.:

    “When, therefore, the mixed cup and baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the Body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life – flesh is nourished by the Body and Blood of the Lord, and is in fact, a member of Him?”

    Against Heresies 4.18; 5.2,3


    Cyprian of Carthage AD 200-258

    “We may not arouse and exhort those to battle unarmed and naked, but may fortify them with the protection of Christ’s Body and Blood. The Eucharist is designate for this very purpose, that it may be a safeguard to those who receive it.”

    Epistle 54


    Athanasius of Alexandria AD 296-373

    “You will see the Levites (deacons) bringing loaves and a cup of win, and placing them on the Table. So long as the prayers and invocations have not yet been made, it is mere bread and a mere cup. But when the great and wondrous prayers have been recited, then the bread becomes the Body, and the cup becomes the Blood of Jesus Christ… When the great prayers and holy supplications are sent up, the Word descends on the bread and cup, and it becomes His Body.”

    Sermon to the Baptized, quoted in Early Christian Doctrine by J.N.D. Kelley


    Hilary of Poitiers AD 315-367

    “He Himself declares: ‘For My Flesh is real food, and My Blood is real drink. He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood abides in Me and I in him.’ It is no longer permitted us to raise doubts about the nature of the Body and the Blood, for, according to the statement of the Lord Himself, as well as our faith, this is indeed Flesh and Blood. And these things that we receive bring it about that we are in Christ and Christ in us… How deeply we are in Him through the sacrament fo the Flesh and Blood.”

    The Trinity 8.14


    Cyril of Jerusalem AD 315-386

    “Since then He Himself declared and said of the Bread, ‘this is my Body’, who shall dare to doubt any longer? And since He Himself affirmed and said, ‘this is My Blood’, who shall ever hesitate, saying that it is not His Blood? He once, in Cana of Galilee turned water into wine, akin to blood, and is it incredible that He should have turned wine into Blood?

    “Consider therefore the bread and wine not as bare elements, for they are, according to the Lord’s declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ; for even though sense suggest this to you, yetlet faith establish you. Judge not the matter from the taste, but from faith be fully assured without misgiving, that the Body and Blood of Christ have been granted to you.”

    Catechetical Lectures XXII 1.2; XXII 6


    Basil the Great AD 330-379

    “It is beneficial and good to communicate every day, to partake of the Holy Body and Blood of Christ, for He distinctly says, ‘He that eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood h as eternal life.”

    Epistle 93 ad Caesariam


    Gregory of Nyssa AD 335-395

    “Rightly then do we believe that now also the bread which is consecrated by the Word of God is changed into the Body of God the Word… by dispensation of His grace, He disseminates Himself in every believer through that Flesh, whose substance comes from bread and wine, blending Himself with the bodies of the believers, to secure that, by this union with the immortal, man, too, may be a sharer in incorruption. He gives these gifts by virtue of the benediction through which is trans-elements the natural quality of these visibile signs to that immortal thing.”

    The Great Catechism XXXVII


    Ambrose of Milan AD 339-397

    “We, as often as we receive the Sacramental Elements, which by the mysterious efficacy of holy prayer are transformed into the Flesh and Blood, ‘do show the Lord’s death’.”

    The Faith, 4.124


    John Chrysostom AD 345-407

    “This which is in the cup is that which flowed from His side, and of that we do we partake… What is the bread? The Body of Christ.”

    Homily 24 on First Corinthians; 1,2


    Augustine of Hippo AD 354-430

    “That Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the Word of God, is the Body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the Word of God, is the Blood of Christ. Through that bread and wine the Lord Christ willed to commend His Body and Blood, which He poured out for us unto the forgiveness of sins.”

    “What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the Body of Christ, and the chalice is the Blood of Christ… How is the bread His Body? And the chalice, or what is in the chalice, how is it His Blood? Those elements, brethren, are called Sacraments, because in them one thing is seen, but anoterh is understood. What is seen is the corporeal species; but what is understood is the spiritual fruit.”

    Sermon 227; Sermon 272


    Cyril of Alexandria AD 375-444

    “He states demonstratively: ‘This is My Body’ and ‘This is my Blood,’ lest you might suppose the things that are seen are a figure. Rather, by some secret of the all-powerful God thethings seen are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ, truly offered ina sacrifice in whic we, as particpants, receive the life-giving and sanctifying power of Christ.”

    Commentary on Matthew 26,27


    Leo the Great AD 400-461

    “When the Lord says: ‘Unless you shall have eaten the Flesh of the Son of Man and shall have drunk His Blood, you shall not have life in you,’ you ought to so communicate at the Sacred Table that you have no doubt whatsoever of the truth of the Body and Blood of Christ. For that which is taken in the mouth si what is believed in faith; and in vain do those respond, ‘Amen’ who argue against that which is received.”

    Sermon 91:3


    Gelasius I of Rome d. AD 496

    “The substance or nature of the bread and wine does not cease to exist, although the elements, the Holy Spirit, perfecting them, pass over into a divine substance, as was the case with Christ Himself. And certainly the image and likeness are honored in the observance of the Mysteries.”

    Concerning the Two Natures of Christ, Thiel. Ep. Pontiff, p. 541 f.


    John of Damascus AD 675-749

    “…not that the Body which was taken up comes back down from heaven, but that the bread itself and the wine are made over into the Body and Blood of God. If you inquire into the way in which this happens, let it suffice for you to hear that it is through the Holy Spirit… Mmore than this we do not know, except that the Word of God is true and effective and all-powerful; but the manner is inscrutable… the Bread and the Wine are not a type of the Body and Blood of Christ – perish the thought! – but the deified Body itself of the Lord.”

    The Source of Knowledge, 3,4,13


    Paschasius Radbertus AD 790-865

    “Let no man be moved from this Body and Blood of Christ which in a mystery are true Flesh and Blood since the Creator so willed it… Because the sacrament is mystical, we cannot deny that it is a figure, but if it is a figure, we must inquire how it can be truth. For every figure is a figure of another thing and is always referred to that other thing as being the real thing of which it is a figure.”

    The Body and Blood of the Lord I.2; IV.1


    Ratramnus of Corbie d, AD 868

    “If, indeed, it is bread in appearance, in the sacrament it is the true Body of Christ, even as the Lord Jesus proclaims, ‘This is my Body,’… they are figures according to he visible form; but according to the invisible substances, i.d. the power of the Divine Word, the true Body and Blood of Christ truly exist.”

    Letters to Charles the Bald, 57;49


    Thomas Aquinas AD 1225-1274

    “Two things may be considered in the sacrament of the Eucharist. One is the fact that it is a sacrament, and in this respect it is like the other effects of sanctifying grace. The other is that Christ’s Body is miraculously contained therein, and thus, it is included under God’s ominpotence, like all other miracles which are ascribed to God’s almighty power.”

    Summa Theologica, Section XV, Question 1, article 9, reply to objection 6


    John Wycliffe AD 1330-1384

    “That change does not destroy the nature of bread, nor alter the nature of the Body… but it effects the presence of the Body of Christ and destroys thte preeminence of the bread, so that the whole attention of the worshipper is concentrated upon the Body of Christ… Not that the bread has been destroyed, but that it signifies the Body of the Lord there present in the Sacrament.”

    The Eucharist, p. 100,101


    John Huss AD 1375-1415

    “The humble priest does not… say that he is the creator of Christ, but that the Lord Christ by His power and Word, through him, causes that which is bread to be His Body; not that at that time it began to be His, but that there on the altar begins to be sacramentally in the form of bread what was previously was not there and therein.”

    John Huss, by David Schaff, 1915


    Martin Luther AD 1483-1543

    “What is the Sacrament of the Altar? It is the true Body and Blood of Christ, under the bread and wine, given unto us Chrisitans to eat and to drink, as it was instituted by Christ Himself… What is the benefit of such eating and drinking? It is pointed out in these words: Given and shed for you for the remission of sins.”

    Small Catechism Section VI


    John Calvin AD 1509-1564

    “It is a spiritual mystery which cannot be seen by the eye, nor be comprehended by human understanding. Therefore, it is represented for us by means of visible signs, according to the need of our weaknesses. Nevertheless, it is not a naked figure, but one joined to its truth and substance. With good reason, then, the bread is called Body, because it not only represents it, but also presents it.”

    Short Treatise on the Lord’s Supper


    John Wesley AD 1703-1791

    “All who desire an increase of the grace of God are to wait for it in partaking of the Lord’s Supper: for this also is a direction He Himself has given… is not the eating of the bread, and the drinking of that cup, the outward, visible means, whereby God conveys into our souls all that spiritual grace, that righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost which were purchased by the Body of Christ, once broken and the Blood of Christ once shed for us? Let all, therefore, who truly desire the grace of God, eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.”

    Sermon 16, The Means of Grace, points 11,12


    Andrew Murray AD 1828-1917

    “In the Supper, Christ would take possession of the whole man – body and soul – to renew and sanctify it by the power of His holy Body and Blood. even His Body is communicated by the Holy Spirit. Even our body is fed with His holy Body and renewed by the working of the Holy Spirit… ‘He that eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood, let him abide in Me, and I in him.”

    The New Life, p. 205, 2-7


    F.F. Bruce 20th Century

    “In the Biblical sense, ‘remembrance’ is more than a mental exercise; it involves a realization of what is remembered. At the Passover feast the participants are one with their ancestors of the Exodus; at the Eucharist, Christians experience the Real Presence of their Lord.”

    1st and 2nd Corinthians, Oliphants, 1971; p. 111


    R.C.H. Lenski 20th Century

    “‘My Body means exactly what the words say: in truth and reality My Body… We refuse to answer the question regarding the how because the Lord withholds the answer. We ould probably not have understood the real answer if it had ben given because of the giving of His Body in the Sacrament is a Divine act of omnipotence and grace which is beyond mortal comprehension. The Lord declares the fact: ‘This is My Body,’ and we take Him at His word.”

    The Interpretation of St. Paul’s 1st and 2nd Epistles to the Corinthians, Augsburg, 1963


    G.M.A. Jansen 20th Century

    “This is the mystery: The Body and blood of Christ are there and He offers them to us a food and drink, because He said so. If you believe in the Mystery of the Incarnation and in that of hte Redemption, you can also believe in the Mystery of the Holy Eucharist, in the Real Presence.”

    The Sacramental We, Bruce Publishing, co. 1968, p. 52



    And finally one who didn’t.

    Influenced by the rationalistic spirit of the Renaissance and reacting to abuses in the Roman Church, a small segment of Reformation churchmen, centered around Ulrich Zwingli, began to view the Lord’s Supper as an empty symbol, a Real Absence of Christ, instead of a vehicle of grace.


    Ulrich Zwingli AD 1484-1531

    “If He has gone away, if He has left this world, if He is no longer with us, then either the Creed is unfaithful to the words of Christ, which is impossible, or else the Body and Blood of Christ cannot be present in the Sacrament. The flesh may fume but the words of Christ stand firm. He sits at the right hand of the Father, He has left the world, He is no longer present with us. And if these words are true, it is impossible to maintain that His Flesh and Blood are present in the Sacrament.”

    “The Fathers held exactly the same view as we do. And they use exactly the same speech as we do, for they call the bread and wine the Body and Blood of Christ, although what they really mean is that they are the representation and memorial of His Body and Blood…”

    Zwingli and Bullinger, The Westminster Press, p. 214-234

    “And just as I have no doubt that this God created heaven and earth, and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, so I know that it is not possible that the Body of Christ is in the Sacrament.”

    Huldrych Zwingli, G.R. Potter, Edward Arnold Pub. 1978; p. 100

    Much of modern American Evangelicalism has taken its view of the Lord’s Supper from the Gnostic Zwinglian tradition, rather than from the mainstream of historic Incarnational Christianity. Althought a multitude of examples could be quoted, Zwingli has stated the case most succinctly, and substantially speaks for them all.

    The Orthodox Church, as the historic Church of Christ, has maintained the Lord’s command, and the Apostolic teaching, often at great cost, for the last 2,000+ years
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  5. #424
    Toady-Epistle I Corinthians 9:2-12 Gospel Matthew 18:23-35

    Fr Chris' homily focused on forgiveness. Some notes-*"forgiveness" appears 141 times in the Bible; 71 in OT/70 in the NT. ; Not forgiving is something that keeps us from God; being forgiving requires practice (I'll have to try this yet another character builder to work on)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



  6. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  7. #425
    Prefigurations of the Sacrament of the Divine Eucharist in the Old Testament – 1


    The sacrament of the Divine Eucharist was prefigured by a variety of events in the era of the Old Testament. These events were investigated from as early as the time when the New Testament was being written. They were interpreted and analyzed by the writers of the New Testament, and thereafter by the Fathers of the Church, not only because they’re noteworthy in themselves, but also because they were harbingers of the Truth. The advent of Christ didn’t mean a commentary on the old, nor a transfer from the relative to the relative, but a progression from the old (enslavement) to the new (liberty. His presence “makes all things new, and the very fact of His incarnation is “he only new thing under the sun”.


    1. The first historical event through which the Divine Eucharist is prefigured is the offering of bread on the part of Melchizedek. In his letter to the Hebrews, the Apostle Paul interprets this and says that Christ became a High Priest “after the order of Melchizedek”[1], who was “without father, or mother, without genealogy, with neither beginning of days or end of life”. Melchizedek is a model of the Son of God[2]. Along the same lines as Saint Paul, Clement the Alexandrian considered the oil and wine offered to Abraham by Melchizedek to be a prefiguration of Jesus as the Eucharistic Bread and Wine[3]. “Melchizedek, the king of Salem, the priest of God the Most High, who gave the food of the oil and wine as a model of the Eucharist”. Kyprianos of Carthage also considered Melchizedek to be a model of Christ, and his offering a type of that of Christ: “In the priest Melchizedek, we see the mystery of the sacrifice of the Lord prefigured”[4].

    In line with this tradition, Saint John Chrysostom writes of Melchizedek: “Moved by the spirit of prophecy, when he had grasped the offering that would be given in the future for the Gentiles, he praised God with wine and oil, imitating the Christ Who was to come”[5]. So the offering of bread and wine on the part of Melchizedek was no accident. It was an action inspired by the spirit, which heralded the sacrifice that would be offered on the part of the whole world. Melchizedek received “in a mystery” the grace of the unique sacrifice, “of the slaughtered lamb from the beginning of the world”[6]. In the Holy Spirit, he was able to understand an event that had not yet occurred in time and many centuries before the advent of Christ, Who imitated his offering. Chrysostom writes that Divine Scripture “by revelation and in advance manifests that which is to occur in the future”[7].

    Comparing the Jewish sacrifices and the offering of Melchizedek, Efsevios (Eusebius) of Caesarea tells us that at three points the latter was superior to the former: a) it was offered by a priest who didn’t belong to the family of Levi: “because he was not chosen by people, nor was he revealed by a manufactured unction, not did he belong to the tribe of priests, nor did he serve God in the Highest with sacrifices and libations”; b) Melchizedek’s offering took place outside the temple in Jerusalem: “ nor did he make his offering in the temple in Jerusalem, and c) it was a bloodless sacrifice: “Nowhere does it appear that he used material sacrifices”[8].

    But if the sacrifices of the Jews differed from the offering of Melchizedek, how much more were they different from the offering of Christ. “For in the Old Testament, because people were less accomplished spiritually, the blood they offered to the idols was accepted by Christ, in order to remove it from the idols, an act that was the result of indescribable affection. For here the ritual was subsumed into the more dread and magnificent sacrament, so that this sacrifice changed and He gave the command that they should offer Himself instead of the slaughter of animals”[9]. “For this, (the Jewish sacrifice, was made by hands, whereas that of Christ was not made by hands.

    The former had blood, the blood of goats, whereas the latter had the blood of the Lord”[10]. “Because you do not have cherubim (in the Christian sacrifice), but the Lord of the Cherubim Himself, dwelling within you; and no jar, and manna or tablets of stone and the rod of Aaron, but the Lord’s own body and blood, and the spirit instead of the written commandments, and grace that surpasses human thought, and an indescribable gift…[11]”.

    [To Be Continued]


    [1] Heb. 6,20; cf. also Ps.109, 4.

    [2] Heb. 7, 3.

    [3] Στρωματείς 4, 25.

    [4] Epistle 63, 4.

    [5] On Melchizedek.

    [6] Rev. 13, 8.

    [7] On the Nativity, Homily 35.

    [8] Ευαγγελική απόδειξις, 5, 3.

    [9] On I Cor. Homily 24, 2.

    [10] On Heb. Homily 19.

    [11] On Ps. 133.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  8. #426
    2. Besides, the person of the Patriarch Isaac, his birth and the offering of him as a sacrifice to God by his father Abraham have attracted the attention of many interpreters of the Holy Scriptures.

    Isaac truly was born through the promise of God. He was born of a mother who was sterile and a father who was well-stricken in years. According to Paul, this means that we, the faithful, “are offspring through the promise of Isaac”, precisely because Isaac was born from a sterile mother, just as the Church was sterile before the advent of Christ and the descent of the Holy Spirit.

    With reference to the sacrifice of Isaac, Saint John Chrysostom initially underlines the fact that Abraham walked with Isaac and two servants for three days, going to a high point, which prefigured Golgotha. When Abraham arrived at the place of the “new and strange” sacrifice, he went on with Isaac. Isaac undertook the task of bringing the wood for the sacrifice, in just the same way as Christ bore His cross on His shoulders to Golgotha. But the sacrifice of Isaac wasn’t completed. “He did not sacrifice by him by his hand, but by his intention; he did not bury the knife into the neck of the child; he did not cut into his skin, but there was a bloodless sacrifice. Those who are baptized understand what I am saying. This is why the sacrifice was bloodless, because it was a model of that which would take place in the future. Do you see the foreshadowed image in the Old Testament? Do not refuse to believe the truth”[12].

    The intervention of God, which came at the critical moment, prevented the completion of the sacrifice of Isaac. The “type” couldn’t be allowed to reach the heights of the Truth. Only on Golgotha would God not send an angel to prevent the sacrifice of His only-begotten Son. And as for Abraham, God was able to confirm, and did so, that he had not withheld his beloved son from Him. Saint Paul also says that, because of His overwhelming love for us, God the Father did not withhold His own Son.

    The place of Isaac was taken by a ram which had been caught in a thicket by its horns. The ram caught in the thicket its horns is the Redeemer, hanging upon the horns of the Cross. In a thicket: wearing on His brow a crown of thorns. So when Abraham offered up Isaac then he saw the sheep with its horns caught and sacrificed it, prefiguring the saving Passion[13].

    The Epistle to the Hebrews also touches upon another aspect of the sacrifice or Isaac and the Eucharistic Sacrament, the Mystery of the Cross and the Resurrection. It tells us that Abraham was prepared to sacrifice Isaac even though God’s promise depended on the boy. Why did he do this? “He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back”[14]. The intervention of God transformed the mode of the Cross into that of the Resurrection of His Son. This is why the Lord says Abraham rejoiced at the thought that he would see His own days; he saw them and was glad.

    Chrysostom asks how it was possible since he was born so many years earlier: “Through the model”, he replies, “through the shadow. Exactly as the ram was offered in the stead of Isaac, so the rational sheep was offered on behalf of the whole world. Because the truth had to be prefigured in a shadowy form. Note well, my beloved, that all of this had to be prefigured in a nebulous manner. There was an only-begotten son them and an only-begotten Son now. Much loved and real then, beloved and real now. The former was offered as a sacrifice and the latter was given by the Father to be sacrificed”[15].

    Hiermonk Grigorios, Η Λειτουργία της Ευχαριστίας του Θεού, pubd. in Modern Greek by the Holy Metropolis of Halkida, pp. 16-25.
    [12] Encomium on Saint Efstathios

    [13] On Fasting, 4

    [14] Heb. 11, 19.

    [15] On Gen. Homily 47.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  9. #427
    3. A phrase which can be found in the prophecy concerning the Messiah by the Patriarch Jacob provides St. John Chrysostom with the opportunity to speak of the sacrifice of Christ and the Divine Eucharist. “He will wash his garment in wine, his robe in the blood of grapes”. Chrysostom says: “See how the whole of the mystery has been implied for us. The faithful understand the significance of the words: ‘He will wash his garment in wine’. I believe he calls the body the garment which He condescended to put on because of the mystery of divine dispensation. Then, so that you will learn precisely what he called wine, he goes on to say that ‘he will cleanse his robe in the wine of the grape, which is red, like blood’. See how, through the name of blood, His slaughter is implied for us, as well as the cross and the whole dispensation of the sacraments”[16].


    The children of the Patriarch Jacob heard this Messianic prophesy, but did not enjoy the reality about which he spoke. For him, the prophecy was an enigma. With the coming of the Messiah, the enigma was transformed into knowledge of life. Knowledge acquired by those who were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is they who cleanse “their robe in the blood of grapes”.

    4. The Divine Eucharist is also like the sacrifice of the Prophet Elijah. Just as then, when, following the Prophet’s prayer, fire descended from heaven and devoured the sacrifice, in the same way now, the priest stands before the altar and brings down “not fire, but the Holy Spirit. And he prays intensely, not for flame to come from heaven to consume that which is before him, but for divine grace to come upon the sacrifice and with it to kindle the souls of all”[17].

    5. Speaking of his call to the prophetic office, Isaiah, too, refers to a wonderful vision which preceded the call and which prepared him to receive it:

    “In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim… And one called to another and said: ‘Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of Hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!’ And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him who called, and the house was filled with smoke… Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a burning coal that he had taken with tongs from the altar. And he touched my mouth and said: ‘Behold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin atoned for’” (6, 1-7).

    For the holy Fathers who wrote the Divine Liturgies, there was absolutely no doubt as regards the significance of the vision: the Prophet is describing for us the celestial and angelic worship. This ultramundane worship was unknown to people before the Lord’s coming to earth. Between heaven and earth there was a great chasm. But the incarnation of the Son and Word of God does away with the wall separating them. The chasm was transformed into a bridge which united the earth with the heavens. Angels came down to earth, accompanying the heavenly Lord, and the angelic hymnody, the hymn of victory, was sung in the house of the glory of the Lord.

    According to Chrysostom, this is why, when a bishop is celebrating, “when he stands before the holy altar, offering the reasonable sacrifice, he does not simply call upon us to sing the hymn, but, having first referred to the Cherubim and recalled the Seraphim, urges all of us to raise the dread voice and, with the recollection of the angels, to tear our minds away from the earth, saying to each one of us: ‘You’re singing with the Seraphim; stand beside them and open your wings with them and surround the royal throne’”[18]. “That altar was a prefiguration and image of this altar; that material fire was a prefiguration of this spiritual fire. Then the Seraphim didn’t dare touch with their hands, but used tongs, whereas you take it in your hand”[19].

    With the tongs, the angel picked up the coal, the type and image of the spiritual fire, Christ. And this coal cleansed the lips of the Prophet, to become the mouth of God. Believers who approach the Chalice of Life “in joy and trembling” receive the fire which cleanses their whole being, consumes the dross and “inexpressibly” cools them. Those who partake of the coal which is Christ at communion do not merely become the mouthpieces of God, but God-bearers and Christ-bearers.

    6. Christ’s sacrifice is also the “pure sacrifice” mentioned by the Prophet Malachi: “From the east to the west, my name has been glorified by all the nations and in every place incense is offered in my name and pure sacrifice”. “When did this happen?”, asks Chrysostom. “When was the pure sacrifice offered? You can’t put a date on it, except after the coming of Christ”[20]. Comparing the Divine Eucharist with the Jewish sacrifice, he says “we can say that only the former is really pure. Because it was not made with smoke and the aromas of roasted meats, nor with blood and ransom, but is offered with the grace of the Holy Spirit”[21].

    7. All the above prefigurations- events and prophetic words- were harbingers of the Divine Eucharist. In each one, there are details that recall the Eucharistic offering: the bread and wine of Melchizedek, the sacrifice of Abraham of his only-begotten and beloved son, the altar, and the angelic worship of the prophetic vision, the coal. With these details, a picture can be formed of the holy anaphora. But the prototype of this image did not appear in the Old Testament. This is why the picture is simply a shadow of “good things to come”, the presence of which shadow “in the long term will never be able to perfect those approaching it”.

    The purpose of the shadow was to announce the coming Truth. With the incarnation of the Word, “the people dwelling in darkness beheld a great light”. With His brilliant presence, Christ illumined “the ends of the earth”. The “old” became new; the corrupt, incorrupt; the mortal immortal. The presence of the Light of Life disperses the “shadow of death”. “Now all things are filled with light”. Everything is bathed in the light and in truth. Our long-awaited, foretasted and, in a variety of ways, prefigured salvation has become a historical and real event.

    Hiermonk Grigorios, Η Λειτουργία της Ευχαριστίας του Θεού, pubd. in Modern Greek by the Holy Metropolis of Halkida, pp. 16-25.
    [16] On Genesis, homily.

    [17] On the Priesthood, Discourse III.

    [18] On the Seraphim, 6,3

    [19] Ibid.

    [20] Discourse against the Jews 5,12.

    [21] Ibid.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  10. #428
    Pretty ordinary but very lovely Liturgy today.

    14th Sunday after Pentacost and first Sunday of Luke Righteous mother Euphrosyne, Venerable Martyr Paphnoutios of Egypt and those slain with him; repose of Venerable Sergios of Radnezh; translation of the relics of Herman, archbishop of Kazan.


    Epistle Corinthians 1:21-24 Gospel Luke 5:1-11


    Some notes from Fr Chris' homily...


    -the Church is the Kingdom Of God-His kingdom is everywhere, but especially manifest in His Church.


    -The Church existed before time; like all things from God, it is eternal


    -Why come to church? Because the mysteries of God and his word are manifest in the Kingdom


    -Worldly things become less valuable when chased; the kingdom is eternally priceless
    -endeavour to be great, not mediocre or good.


    Briefly saw my godmother at coffee hour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  11. #429
    stuff from 10/2

    Mideast festival weekend. Good food and fun for all.


    Epistle-2 Corinthians 4:6-15 gospel-Luke 6:31-36


    15th Sunday after Pentecost and Second Sunday of Luke
    Heiromartyr Cyprian the confessor Virgin-martyr Justina; Theophilos the Confessor, New-martyr George at Karatzasou, Andrew of Constantinople, fool for Christ David and Constantine, prince-martyrs of Georgia; Anna, princess of Kashin


    A few homily notes;
    Gospel commands freely giving instead of expecting returns *theology of personhood-implies relationships-purposely selfless per the nature of Orthodoxy(in contrast to Western individualism)
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  12. #430
    Nativity season is upon us. Pretty slow day overall. Epistle- Ephesians 2:4-10 Gospel Luke 18:18-27 Fr Mansour took over for Fr. Chris toady.

    Some homily notes...
    *works can't save, though works are important for God's glory *God is not against us or riches generally *Riches can be used to serve God, but that is all *have faith in God, not material things
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  13. #431
    Pretty ordinary day. Feeling kind of stiff due to being out late performing live and partying.

    Some homily notes..
    *Family in Christ transcends ethnicity, gender, etc
    *the EOC is where we "belong", not where we "go" to
    *Antioch was the most ethnically diverse place in the world when the Church was born
    Epistle-Galatians 3:23-4:5 Gospel Luke 13:10-17
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  14. #432
    Nativity season is Nativity. Fr. Chris' homily emphasizes the importance of purposeful choice-making and organizing priorities. Gospel Luke 14:16-24 Epistle Colossians 3:4-11
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



  15. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  16. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Nativity season is Nativity. Fr. Chris' homily emphasizes the importance of purposeful choice-making and organizing priorities. Gospel Luke 14:16-24 Epistle Colossians 3:4-11
    Sounds boring as hell.

  17. #434
    What? You don't care for the Gospel of Luke nor the Epistle?
    ...

  18. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by RJB View Post
    What? You don't care for the Gospel of Luke nor the Epistle?
    Not if the preaching is simply moralisms about what man has to do to be saved. Any Christian holds that in contempt, because he sees it as being slavery under the law. Only the true gospel, the one where Christ ALONE does the work required on man's behalf, is exciting and filled with hope.

  19. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Sounds boring as hell.
    Christians don't go to Liturgy to be entertained. We go to be nourished by the Gospel and the Eucharist and to take part in Church Life. ~hugs~ Entertainment is a worldly affair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  20. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Not if the preaching is simply moralisms about what man has to do to be saved. Any Christian holds that in contempt, because he sees it as being slavery under the law. Only the true gospel, the one where Christ ALONE does the work required on man's behalf, is exciting and filled with hope.
    For all the time you've been here, Sola, somehow, you are still the most ignorant person on the Orthodox faith I have ever met.
    ...

  21. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Christians don't go to Liturgy to be entertained. We go to be nourished by the Gospel and the Eucharist and to take part in Church Life. ~hugs~ Entertainment is a worldly affair.
    Whats their "gospel"? Do good works so that you'll be saved? That is not the gospel.

  22. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Nativity season is Nativity. Fr. Chris' homily emphasizes the importance of purposeful choice-making and organizing priorities. Gospel Luke 14:16-24 Epistle Colossians 3:4-11
    I think our calendar is about two weeks ahead of you. One of the things we are doing is offering compline on FB live. It's an evening meditation and prayer from the Book of Common Prayer. It has been really lovely to just take a deep breath and focus on the Lord. We will continue to do this for the whole of Advent.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  23. #440
    Who else uses the Book of Common Prayer?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



  24. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  25. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I think our calendar is about two weeks ahead of you. One of the things we are doing is offering compline on FB live. It's an evening meditation and prayer from the Book of Common Prayer. It has been really lovely to just take a deep breath and focus on the Lord. We will continue to do this for the whole of Advent.
    Yeah, that book is not used by any Orthodox people, AFAIK. (It's Episcopalian, as I understand it) There are a number of prayers for events and situations in the Orthodox prayer book. There are also a number of prayers by various saints for a number of occasions. For example, this prayer after communion by St Basil The Great:
    We give Thee thanks, O Lord our God, for the Communion of Thy holy, pure, deathless and heavenly Mysteries, which thou hast given for the good, the hallowing, and the healing of our souls and bodies. Do Thou, O Sovereign of the world, cause this Communion in the Holy Body and blood of Thy Christ to nourish us in unashamed faith, sincere charity, ripe wisdom, health of soul and body, separation from all ills, observance of Thy Law, and justification before His awful Judgment Seat. O Christ our God, the Mystery of Thy Providence has been accomplished according to our ability. We have been reminded of Thy Death and we have seen a figure of Thy Resurrection; we have been filled with Thine Infinite Life, and we have tasted Thine inexhaustible joy; and we pray Thee to make us worthy of these things in the life to come, through the grace of Thine Eternal Father and of Thy holy, good, and life-giving Spirit, now and forever, eternally: amen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  26. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Sola_Fide View Post
    Whats their "gospel"? Do good works so that you'll be saved? That is not the gospel.
    You think you know it all-or at least enough to make a judgement-you should know already and be able to list copious citations. If not, admit you're wrong and go on your way. ~hugs~
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  27. #443
    I don't recognize that prayer, HB. It's nice nonetheless!

    This is the prayer from the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil after communion:

    Lord Christ our God, King of the ages and Creator of all, I thank Thee for all the blessings Thou hast granted me and for the communion of Thy pure and life-giving Mysteries. I pray Thee, therefore, gracious Lord and Lover of mankind, guard me under Thy protection and within the shadow of Thy wings; and grant me with a clear conscience till my last breath worthily to partake of Thy sacred Gifts for forgiveness of sins and for life eternal. For Thou art the Bread of Life, the Source of Holiness, the Giver of all that is good, and to Thee we send up glory, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  28. #444
    I think the prayer you listed above HB is from the Latin Rite, but I am not certain.

    The prayer of St. Basil in the Divine Liturgy which he wrote and which is used in the Orthodox Church at times (for example, on Christmas!) is:

    Priest (in a low voice): We thank You, Lord, our God, for the communion of Your holy, most pure, immortal, and heavenly Mysteries which You have granted us for the benefit, sanctification, and healing of our souls and bodies. Grant, Master of all, that the communion of the holy Body and Blood of Your Christ may become for us faith unashamed, love unfeigned, fulness of wisdom, healing of soul and body, repelling of every hostile adversary, observance of Your commandments, and an acceptable defense at the dread judgment seat of Your Christ.

    Priest: For You are our sanctification and to You we give glory, to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  29. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by TER View Post
    I don't recognize that prayer, HB. It's nice nonetheless!

    This is the prayer from the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil after communion:

    Lord Christ our God, King of the ages and Creator of all, I thank Thee for all the blessings Thou hast granted me and for the communion of Thy pure and life-giving Mysteries. I pray Thee, therefore, gracious Lord and Lover of mankind, guard me under Thy protection and within the shadow of Thy wings; and grant me with a clear conscience till my last breath worthily to partake of Thy sacred Gifts for forgiveness of sins and for life eternal. For Thou art the Bread of Life, the Source of Holiness, the Giver of all that is good, and to Thee we send up glory, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.
    Thanks for the corrections, brother! I have much to learn, not being cradle and all. I have a humble spirit, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  30. #446
    I've got audio of the homily this week, which I made from the choir loft. @TER would like it, I reckon.
    Last edited by heavenlyboy34; 12-11-2016 at 11:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  31. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Thanks for the corrections, brother! I have much to learn, not being cradle and all. I have a humble spirit, though.
    No worries! I am humbled every day!

    Even now, I feel I have barely scratched the surface of the Orthodox faith. Every day we can learn something profound if we only look for it.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  32. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Yeah, that book is not used by any Orthodox people, AFAIK. (It's Episcopalian, as I understand it) There are a number of prayers for events and situations in the Orthodox prayer book. There are also a number of prayers by various saints for a number of occasions. For example, this prayer after communion by St Basil The Great:
    I must be the outlier . I wan't sure if other Anglicans were following this thread or not. I think a lot of evangelicals and low church are returning to a traditional liturgy. I was very surprised. There is life in the liturgy.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



  33. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  34. #449
    The Christian faith is a never ending fountain of wonder and knowledge.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

  35. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I must be the outlier . I wan't sure if other Anglicans were following this thread or not. I think a lot of evangelicals and low church are returning to a traditional liturgy. I was very surprised. There is life in the liturgy.
    It most certainly is encouraging to hear that Christians are returning to their traditions of liturgical worship. I hope and pray that continues.
    +
    'These things I command you, that you love one another.' - Jesus Christ

Page 15 of 19 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Live streaming of Holy Saturday liturgy from Greece :)
    By heavenlyboy34 in forum Peace Through Religion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-30-2016, 09:26 AM
  2. Salvation (Divine Liturgy split)
    By Sola_Fide in forum Peace Through Religion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-26-2015, 08:57 AM
  3. Divine Liturgy - split
    By Nang in forum Peace Through Religion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-11-2014, 10:34 PM
  4. Hey Orthodox Christians-- Qs on the Divine Liturgy.
    By RJB in forum Peace Through Religion
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: 11-10-2013, 11:02 PM
  5. I'm divine
    By coyote_sprit in forum Open Discussion
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 12-16-2008, 06:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •