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Quite long... cliffs?
What I say is for entertainment purposes only!
Mark 10:45 The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.
"If you want to make a lot of money, resist diversification." - Jim Rogers
If you read Zarlenga's book (the first 3/4 is highly recommended, the last 1/4 not so much), he makes a strong case that the total supply of gold is too small relative to the total economy, making it too easy for a small number of very wealthy people to gain control of enough gold to manipulate prices, interest rates, the directions of markets, etc. for their own profit, and to the detriment not only of other market players but the broader economy.
This might make sense if the price of gold was static. As some major player tries to hoard the gold, it will skyrocket in value beyond its "true" value. The powers who try to buy up all the gold will in essence be selling off other at assets dirt cheap prices. When someone is hoarding money, it is good for everyone else, assuming he gets the money in an honest way(ie selling a product rather than theft or counterfeit).
What I say is for entertainment purposes only!
Mark 10:45 The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.
"If you want to make a lot of money, resist diversification." - Jim Rogers
No, it makes sense because it isn't.
Nope. Buy on margin, kite the price, sell at a profit. You seem to have a remarkably naive view of how financial markets work.As some major player tries to hoard the gold, it will skyrocket in value beyond its "true" value. The powers who try to buy up all the gold will in essence be selling off other at assets dirt cheap prices.
Nope. Deflation is NOT good for everyone else.When someone is hoarding money, it is good for everyone else, assuming he gets the money in an honest way(ie selling a product rather than theft or counterfeit).
How would it make sense? As gold moves higher, the buyer(manipulator if you want to call him that) will have to give up more and more assets to keep finding new sellers.
If you are the only major buyer, you can't prop up the price, certainly not long enough to unload your position. Besides, you could attempt this with any asset, not just gold. It really has nothing to do with gold.
Wrong. Let's say Steve Jobs had become so rich that he owned 50% of the money in the United States. Then right before he passed away he said he was burning all his cash. You really believe this would not increase the purchasing power, thus be good, for EVERYONE else who held dollars?
What I say is for entertainment purposes only!
Mark 10:45 The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.
"If you want to make a lot of money, resist diversification." - Jim Rogers
The current system is a debt money system, not a fiat money system. A fiat money system is under the control of the money issuer, basically the government. The debt money system is under the control of bankers, who issue money by lending it. Much as I distrust government, I trust it more than I trust bankers.
He doesn't have to give up any assets. He borrows against the rising price of his gold.
LOL! I have worked with market makers and stock promoters. You are simply wrong.If you are the only major buyer, you can't prop up the price, certainly not long enough to unload your position.
It's true that people do it with other assets, typically stocks and debt instruments. But if gold is money, the manipulation affects everything else throughout the economy.Besides, you could attempt this with any asset, not just gold. It really has nothing to do with gold.
Every economist agrees with me.Wrong.
It would certainly be good in the short run for everyone else who held or was owed more dollars than he owed or wanted to spend, but it would be bad for debtors, and bad for the economy.Let's say Steve Jobs had become so rich that he owned 50% of the money in the United States. Then right before he passed away he said he was burning all his cash. You really believe this would not increase the purchasing power, thus be good, for EVERYONE else who held dollars?
Any amount of gold (or anything else for that matter) is enough to represent any size economy. To say otherwise is an absurdity. If I have to divide a kilometer of gold in enough pieces so that all people on the planet have a piece, and all of their pieces were given 1-1 ratio for their dollars, how small would you like me to go until I've proven you wrong?
Meters?
Centimeter?
Millimeter?
Micrometer?
Nanometer?
Picometer?
Femtometer? one quadrillionth (millionth of a billionth) of a meter, or 0.000000000000001m.
Surely that's enough to cover all currency units of the world combined. Again - any size of anything is large enough to represent any size economy. To say otherwise is an absurdity and ignores the above example. Anyone who claims that gold is not plentiful enough to represent any sized economy is proposing a childish argument and shows a complete lack of understanding of what money is.
We experienced deflation in the US for 150 years of our history until 1913. During that time we went from being a third world country to the leading manufacturing power in the world. By World War I we had surpassed the UK as the leading industrial power in the world. All while on a gold standard and without a central bank.
Deflation is the reward for a healthy economy. Deflation is the result of improved productivity and leads to an improvement of living conditions for the average man.
You don't see the whole picture. Whoever is giving him money would be giving up assets. If a bank is giving him money to be buy my gold at 50k an ounce, fine, I will take the banks money and go pay off my house or buy a car or start a company. Regardless of who is paying, they would have to be paying a lot.
No you don't because this doesn't happen on the scale you are purposing. Think Hunt Brothers. You are speaking of every day market manipulation.
If the fact that it is currency was important, then people could just manipulate the dollar there is no difference. And before you speak on size, remember price is relative. This is a pretty weak argument.
Don't show your ignorance so strongly.
It would be good in the long run. Some creditors would have to refinance, but everyone's purchasing power and standard of living would rise. You add to the economy why you collect money and you take from it when you spend(consume). Imagine rather than dollars, he had goods. He dies and gives them to everyone. Its the same idea.
What I say is for entertainment purposes only!
Mark 10:45 The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.
"If you want to make a lot of money, resist diversification." - Jim Rogers
What I say is for entertainment purposes only!
Mark 10:45 The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.
"If you want to make a lot of money, resist diversification." - Jim Rogers
The ability to manipulate gold long term and systemically does not exist.
The gold market trade is the largest trade on earth ... its size eventually and shortly overwhelms anyone too stupid or too slow.
Nonsense.
Roy believes if a dog barks, there must be two dogs.
Fiat system is what we have. It is under the control of the money issuer.not a fiat money system. A fiat money system is under the control of the money issuer, basically the government.
Because you hold some crack pot theory of "Debt" money - you are so twisted around, you think banks make money out of thin air - yet! when any one tries to collect this thin air money ... it evaporates!
You live in leprechaun land... as long as no one finds the gold at the end of the rainbow, it must be there!
Whereas BF believes the presence of a dog does not imply that at least two other dogs existed....
No. The current system is not a fiat money system, as the great majority of our money is issued by private banks as debt.Fiat system is what we have. It is under the control of the money issuer.
They make it out of borrowers' legal obligations to repay their debts.Because you hold some crack pot theory of "Debt" money - you are so twisted around, you think banks make money out of thin air
Nonsense. It is when debts are repaid that debt money disappears. I have already explained this to you.- yet! when any one tries to collect this thin air money ... it evaporates!
http://www.monetary.org/ As this is where the statists will come from after the collapse,They get 33% of their support from sales of his book so on second thoughts,don't buy it.Watch the videos here and on youtube and his website.
http://www.monetary.org/the-1930s-ch...ry-act/2009/08
Last edited by S.Shorland; 04-08-2012 at 04:59 AM.
My understanding is that:
Fiat money is money which is not backed by a physical asset, but circulated and used on the basis of legal tender laws.
The definition of fiat being: A formal authorization or proposition; a decree.
Debt money is "money" which is in fact not money at all, but debt. In fact if I understand correctly, it is not just that a bank creates a debt from the borrower to the bank, but also that the bank creates a debt from the bank to the borrower. So the bank promises to pay the borrower what the borrower promises to pay back to the bank. In effect there is no money, just a whole load of promises to pay (I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of XXX)
So if I understand correctly, we have a fiat-debt money system.
For Liberty!
Grignon's 'money as debt' and 'money as debt II : promises unleashed' seem to be along the same lines.In his second part,grignon hides (intentionally I expect) Hoover's ignoring of Mellon's advice to let 'em go bust and all Hoover's big programs and paints a rosey picture of FDR. From the video they are trying to create a meme and seemingly being very successfull at it.They know as well as we that something is coming down the track and they are making their plans to be the inheritors.Know your enemy.
Zerlanger is a sociologist.A mind-bender.I'd be very interested to discover his associations.A smiling face on the iron fist.
Last edited by S.Shorland; 04-08-2012 at 09:21 AM.
What is so manipulated about it? Just because you don't think a price should be where it is, means nothing. The market is greater than you.
Your "debt money" talk would make sense if you truly believe the fed will call in this debt money and eliminate it. Debt money has done and will cause inflation just as physical money.
What I say is for entertainment purposes only!
Mark 10:45 The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.
"If you want to make a lot of money, resist diversification." - Jim Rogers
Oh... i see. So for the sake of argument lets just forget for a second that the bankers and all the other special interests and complexes don't infest and control government. We just put the printing press into the hands of guys who bring us such wonderful things as the patriot act, NDDA, assassinations of US citizens, TSA, the war on drugs, endless foreign wars and 10s of trillions in debt and unfunded liabilities and things will be sooooooo much better....
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