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I agree that people shouldn't be afraid of opposing ideas or bad ideas especially with libertarians but part of liberty is the right of people and individuals to censors and control what is said in their space. I hate it when facebook does it, hate it even more when a liberty forum does it but individuals/corporations have the right to censor.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul
"We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book
Looks like she was bit by a bat, got a rabies shot.
Libertarian candidate scraps rally appearance after being bitten by bat
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...-bitten-by-bat
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
True. The issue IMO isn't "Can a racist ever make money in a truly free market." Rather, "can a person affected by racism nonetheless find somebody willing to take him on as a customer with full customer service and benefits in a free market?" Again the Uber/Lyft model. As a black person I have never had to wait what I considered a long time for a rideshare. I've never had one cancel on me. As a driver I've had riders cancel on me but I never chalked that up to racism. Even if race was a factor I was not concerned because most of the time I got a new rider in minutes. I have not had the "I'm black and I can't get a taxi" experience, but then I've only ridden in a taxi twice in my life that I can recall, but I've heard those stories enough and seen enough stats to accept that is a thing. But taxis operate off of government licenses and an artificially created monopoly.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
Focus on racism, IMHO, plays directly into the hands of the Marxians. In the entire universe of freedom, how big of a role does the dreaded and inflammatory "racism" play?
What business is affected by it one way or another? Sports, entertainment, retail, small business, etc? ... there is no aspect of modern business that is based upon or directed by racism, other than as a political virtue signalling marketing angle.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Slow down, by "their space" I am talking about inside their property, physical or virtual property. We get complains all the time about facebook censorship and bans but they do have the right to do so inside their virtual property, the same way RPF can ban member for absolutely no reason. Heck facebook at least tries to give you a reason for the ban and a chance to appeal the ban unlike this place.
Can you give examples of pure libertarianism leading to chicom style social scoring? I am not saying that it cannot lead to it but do you have examples of this happening?
Last edited by John-G; 08-09-2020 at 06:26 AM.
She inserted herself squarely on one side of the culture war by praising black lives matter and demanding that we be actively anti-racist. Whatever that means.
At heart, I'm a libertarian anarchist. So I view everything the state does as evil and unnecessary. However, a free society is not utopia. I recognize that. I just wish other libertarians would as well.
Embellishment to what end? Gaining an extra .01% of the popular vote? Siding with the left on cultural issues has not proven to be effective at growing the libertarian movement.
I just don't agree that the free market will improve on racial discrimination. Might it? Yes, of course. Could it make it worse? Certainly in some areas.
In the end, Jo represents pragmatic libertarianism instead of principled libertarianism. Pragmatics have decided to plant their flag with the left on cultural issues and demand that the libertarian movement as a whole be dragged in that direction. Would her message work for some groups in some areas? Yes. Would it work for all groups in all areas? Clearly not.
Libertarianism must be decentralized. Out of the NAP can be spawned all sorts of arguments in favor if a libertarian society. Its just that it needs to be tailored to specific groups.
Interesting. Yes, that is an important question.
Is there a market for serving an under served portion of society?
If there is no market, would charities and non-profits fill in the gaps?
It is possible that neither could exist in a given geographical area within a free society. At which point that person/people need to find another location that is more friendly to their inherent traits or chosen attributes.
It's happening every day, all around us.
Where people, for holding or speaking "incorrect" political positions are subject to job loss, loss of banking services, loss of academic standing and so on.
Granted it has not, yet, widely affected the ability to travel, it doesn't take too much imagination to see that is what is coming next as more and more corporate entities adopt ever more punitive "wokeness" policies.
“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee
We live in a system where the govt can shutdown private enterprise because of an overreaction to a virus and you think any of this is pure libertarianism? sorry but very little of what is going on around us is pure libertarianism. But yes, in a pure libertarian society, there will be communities and systems that will shun/ban you for your speech but those places are going to be the least profitable businesses. Yes, there will be bad actors in it and just as long as there are enough people to turn a blind eye to their immoral actions, those places will continue to operate. Take RPF for example, I used to think there will be a backlash when all the banning of long time beloved members started and nothing happened. Members were surprising OK with the the management's actions. If RPF can get away with it, I wouldn't be shocked if xxxx woke corporation would be able to do the same.
We all have to speak up when we see unfair actions like the firing of people with incorrect political speech. We need to boycott, write letter and make as much noise as we can. The free market works best when people push back against injustice. You start in small places like online forum where you post and move up to businesses you patronize.
I think the mistake you make here is to conflate under served with poor people without money. Jmdrake is referring to under served groups with money, if there is money to be made, there is usually someone willing to take a chance. So no need for charity/non profits to enter the market.
I will continue to agree with you that a free market system will not be perfect, it will have gaps, businesses that discriminate, business failures, scammers and frauds etc but the idea is that it would have less of those negative components than the govt regulated markets.
And here is where my Christian morality trumps my libertarian ideals. The NAP is a moral argument. As long as you have not initiated force you are within libertarian morality. You see a child drowning in pool? Even if you could save his life by simply extending a pole to him, under strictly a NAP principle as long as you didn't push him in the pool you have no moral duty to intervene. But from the Christian principle "Whatsoever you would that men would do to you, do you also unto him", you have a moral duty to save a life if you can do so without risk to yourself or others. The Christian Bible doesn't call me to use force against those who don't want to follow its precepts. But it calls me to shun them. "Have no fellowship with unbelievers. For what fellowship has light with darkness?" As a Christian I fully expect God to take care of those who refuse in this life to "Do unto the least of these My brothers" because that's what He said he would do. My job is to "shake the dust off my feet" and go to another town, not just to find people more friendly to "me" but to find people who are truly Christian and friendly to everyone. That's how I see Jo Jorgenson's call to "anti-racism." There shouldn't be thought crime laws against racists. But people who aspire to an ideal greater than NAP, a Christian ideal (that's how I define it) don't need to associate themselves with people who use NAP as an excuse to be a$$holes. There are things in this life more important than NAP. Being anti-racist doesn't mean you have to kick in people's doors and burn their copies of mein kampf. I'm not a fan of the confedaracy or confederate statutes though I support other people's right to be fans but that support wouldn't have extended to my going to Charlottesville to protest alongside neonazis and klansman. Yes there is a culture war. And our culture is, and has been for a long time, f'cked up. I am no more a fan of the rightest "Let's keep up statues of civil-war criminals and post-war racial terrorists like Nathan Bedford Forrest because...history" than I am of leftest "Let's let dudes with beards go into the ladies room as long as they throw on a wig and say they are women" culture. Both are morally bankrupt IMO.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
You raise many valid points. I agree with some and disagree with others.
You could be correct in what she believes, but her statements on "black lives matters" and her attempt to clarify her comments leave me no less sure of her intentions. It looked to me (and many, many others) that she was taking a strict leftist approach to racism, the state and culture. I've already made up my mind on who will get my vote, but I will continue to follow her campaign whether she is the one that gets it or not.
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