The Passing of the Libertarian Moment?

[William Tell]

Some liberty people have won elections. It's kind of comical really how so many seem to think Ron Paul's congressional electorate must have been libertarian, or Trump was elected by tens of millions of members of the Alt Right. There is so much more to winning an election than principles. Only a handful of voters care about principles enough to research every race and vote on them, but a high percentage of voters have voted for a principled candidate at some time. A lot of the same people who voted for Rand for Senate also like John Bolton. A lot of Rubio supporters would vote for a local liberty candidate if he knocked on their door and asked.

[Swordsmyth]

Some liberty people have won elections. It's kind of comical really how so many seem to think Ron Paul's congressional electorate must have been libertarian, or Trump was elected by tens of millions of members of the Alt Right. There is so much more to winning an election than principles. Only a handful of voters care about principles enough to research every race and vote on them, but a high percentage of voters have voted for a principled candidate at some time. A lot of the same people who voted for Rand for Senate also like John Bolton. A lot of Rubio supporters would vote for a local liberty candidate if he knocked on their door and asked.

Most voters are politically schizophrenic, the candidate's job is to convince them to vote for him in support of the beliefs they hold that align with his, it takes a combination of logical and emotional appeals.

[Anti Globalist]

The only way to save this country would be to have another revolution and overthrow the government. That's what the Founders would be doing right now if they were still alive. Jefferson even said that the government should be overthrown every 18-20 years.

[Swordsmyth]

The only way to save this country would be to have another revolution and overthrow the government. That's what the Founders would be doing right now if they were still alive. Jefferson even said that the government should be overthrown every 18-20 years.

And the founders were lead and organized by men of power and wealth, it will take a lot more work for us to organize a successful revolution (either political or the classic kind) because we have yet to benefit from those with power and wealth joining our cause.

Gaining power and wealth and converting the wealthy and powerful are vital.

[thoughtomator]

Cry me a river. More Americans than ever believe in a Deep State (former crack pottery), have lost faith in Interventionism (even as it’s imposed against their will) and despise the MSM (the same one we watched slander a living Thomas Jefferson - Dr. Paul). Face facts, the Liberty Movement was never going to take over Mordor and run it “properly”. The ring must be destroyed. One step at a time Samwise.

You'd almost think Trump was a secret libertarian, with the progress that has been made in such a short time in building suspicion of and hostility to centralized organs of power.

[acptulsa]

You'd almost think Trump was a secret libertarian, with the progress that has been made in such a short time in building suspicion of and hostility to centralized organs of power.

What kind of Trumpcuck gives Trump credit for doing things he clearly did not do, but merely recognized and capitalized upon the already existent trend?

That's not the kind if thing a libertarian says. That' the kind of thing the fakenews media says to discredit all the hard work libertarians did.

Not even Zippy works that hard at changing history.

[Gumba of Liberty]

That's certainly true, but I don't know that it much brightens the gloomy picture I painted.

To succeed, we need people to do just what you're saying they don't do (care about the liberty of others).

People would care about the liberty of others if they realized (were educated to understand) that your own liberty fundamentally hinges on others understanding and exercising theirs. Liberty is a state of respect, peace, and civilization (cooperation). When Liberty reigns we respect the ability of others to live their own way without harming those around them. When people attempt to socially engineer their neighbors they are declaring war on their fellow man. When they use politicians to do their social engineering we call that (politics) war by other means.

Respect, Liberty, Peace & Civilization or Hostility, Oppression, War, & Barbarism. Those are our choices. There is no middle ground.

[acptulsa]

People would care about the liberty of others if they realized (were educated to understand) that your own liberty fundamentally hinges on others understanding and exercising theirs. Liberty is a state of respect and peace. When Liberty reigns we respect the ability of others to live their own way without harming those around them. When people attempt to socially engineer their neighbors they are declaring war on their fellow man. When they use politicians to do their social engineering we call that (politics) war by other means.

Respect, Liberty, & Peace or Hostility, Oppression, & War. Those are our choices. There is no middle ground.

And their divide and conquer tactics are designed to encourage Americans to steal liberties from each other. Time to listen to wiser heads--if we can get their voices heard above the MSM noise:

You can only get as much liberty as you give.--Will Rogers

[Matt Collins]

I'm not familiar with Williamson but now I'm curious how you and Collins can have such different views of the man.

Because he knows nothing about him other than he made fun of a significant swath of Ron Paul supporters. That is the only explanation can think of.

Kevin Williamson is the single best liberty writer and has been my favorite writer for any publication for at least the last five years or so.

This is all you need to know:





Sep 2011

[Champ]

This seems like a defeatist thread.

Stop waiting on politicians to come flying in on golden chariots to save the day. You should be using people like Ron and Rand as inspirations, not saviors.

If you think we are in trouble right now, then what are you waiting for? Get to work!

[Gumba of Liberty]

This seems like a defeatist thread.

Stop waiting on politicians to come flying in on golden chariots to save the day. You should be using people like Ron and Rand as inspirations, not saviors.

If you think we are in trouble right now, then what are you waiting for? Get to work!

+1

[The Rebel Poet]

I know that's a common and easy sentiment to believe, but I don't buy it. Most people want maximum liberty for themselves - just not for the other guy.

I think the real issue is that we have been discussing things on the State's terms. Nearly EVERY politician talks about what government can do FOR you. Ron Paul was one of the few that talked about what government was doing TO you. Libertarianism has absolutely zero chance to succeed in winning the first argument - but it does surprisingly well when the focus is on the latter. It just never gets there because people like to think government can give them goodies.

Freedom is popular, but unfortunately, most people only care about their own liberty. Even in this forum, people don't care about violating the liberty of others if it helps them.

Saying most people like freedom because they don’t want theirs to be abridged is like saying most people are in favor of starvation because they don’t want to be a meal. Until people value everyone else’s liberty, they are functionally anti-liberty.

People would care about the liberty of others if they realized (were educated to understand) that your own liberty fundamentally hinges on others understanding and exercising theirs. Liberty is a state of respect, peace, and civilization (cooperation). When Liberty reigns we respect the ability of others to live their own way without harming those around them. When people attempt to socially engineer their neighbors they are declaring war on their fellow man. When they use politicians to do their social engineering we call that (politics) war by other means.

Respect, Liberty, Peace & Civilization or Hostility, Oppression, War, & Barbarism. Those are our choices. There is no middle ground.

This.

[wizardwatson]

This seems like a defeatist thread.

Stop waiting on politicians to come flying in on golden chariots to save the day. You should be using people like Ron and Rand as inspirations, not saviors.

If you think we are in trouble right now, then what are you waiting for? Get to work!

+1

This.

If only we had even this much consensus in actual action rather than just consensus that there exists a need to act.

[Raginfridus]

This is all you need to know:





Sep 2011

Oh hell, this guy speaks for NatRev too? Look, John Bolton is also featured.

[Krugminator2]

This is all you need to know:





Sep 2011

No it isn't. That was the first thing that came to mind and is actually the specific thing I linked to. Read my post again.

Your post proves the point Williamson was making. Ron Paul is in the same category as Ayn Rand and Murray Rothbard. People treat them as religious figures that are somehow immune to even mild legitimate criticism. Even around the time that article was published Williamson still was pretty complimentary to Ron Paul, especially given the publication he worked for. As an example, https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...-d-williamson/

[Pauls' Revere]

The LP is controlled opposition, there is the Constitution party but the leftarians wouldn't like it.
Our options are 1: to reform either the Reps or the LP or 2: go with the Constitution Party and ditch the leftarians or 3: start a new party.

Option #3.

[Indy Vidual]

Cry me a river. More Americans than ever believe in a Deep State (former crack pottery), have lost faith in Interventionism (even as it’s imposed against their will) and despise the MSM (the same one we watched slander a living Thomas Jefferson - Dr. Paul). Face facts, the Liberty Movement was never going to take over Mordor and run it “properly”. The ring must be destroyed. One step at a time Samwise.

+rep
Now, how to actually proceed?

[Indy Vidual]

We are here because we believe that Libertarian Principles are better than what we have today. Is it not on us to make being a Libertarian popular?

Almost valid but..
No
It is "On Us" to make money, and opportunities for others from creating more freedom. We need a clear financial incentive for the movement to go forward, or we can continue to always fall short of success.

[Raginfridus]

+rep
Now, how to actually proceed?

Stop paying taxes?

[DamianTV]

Almost valid but..
No
It is "On Us" to make money, and opportunities for others from creating more freedom. We need a clear financial incentive for the movement to go forward, or we can continue to always fall short of success.

Agreed. Having money helps to make things popular.

[H_H]

If only we had even this much consensus in actual action rather than just consensus that there exists a need to act.

[Gumba of Liberty]

+rep
Now, how to actually proceed?

If the forces we are fighting are global then we must fight local.

We build local community networks. We fly (and/or create) our county/town flags. We reach out to people in our communities that enable us to live free. Farmers, ranchers, small business owners, skilled instructors, veterans (think Oath Keepers - most are on our side), local law enforcement (they can either be our worst enemies or our greatest allies) etc.

I met these guys last month and will be working with them in the Greater NJ, PA, & NY area when they launch on July 4th: https://www.sonsoflibertyso.com/memberships

Decentralized community networks built by patriotic Americans designed to educate & increase skill and sustainability will build independence and confidence in the people. As they watch Mordor descend into chaos, when the next financial crisis hits, they will not fear their own freedom and will become natural allies as free men even if they are not 100% ideologically pure. It is vital to coordinate before the next crisis erupts. The time is now. Get moving.

[H_H]

The only way to save this country would be to have another revolution and overthrow the government.

I see no even remotely realistic narrative where this happens and turns out well. No one has ever explained to me how this violent revolution thing could possibly happen. So it's not really possible to take it seriously.

If this is really your plan, break it down for us, man.

[AuH20]

I see no even remotely realistic narrative where this happens and turns out well. No one has ever explained to me how this violent revolution thing could possibly happen. So it's not really possible to take it seriously.

If this is really your plan, break it down for us, man.

Special forces veterans could theoretically pull it off. But you need a leader in the shadows. The clandestine manner in which the the elites act, the resistance must emulate.

[H_H]

Special forces veterans could theoretically pull it off. But you need a leader in the shadows. The clandestine manner in which the the elites act, the resistance must emulate.

So, you are proposing a coup, basically?

I mean, I think everyone understands coups can and do happen, they're totally feasible.

But in a coup, the peasants are, like, not involved.

If your plan is to have a coup, I am all for it. Carry on. I will passively root for you Good Deep State guys to take out the Bad Deep State guys. It's not a revolution, and it's not exactly a plan you would have to (nor want to) be discussing on RPF, but it's a doable plan.