A true Neo-Conservative

[Mikezelot]

From my understanding Neo-Conservativism started in revolutionary France during the 19th century as a nationalist branch off of classical liberalism. Into the 20th century it hit an extreme in fascism in Italy and Germany. With this in mind I believe they may have become what we now call the alt right and who we call Neo-Cons may really just be moderates.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the main platform of a Neo-Conservative platform would be:
Corpatalism
Strong national offense
Nationalism

[BamaAla]

You're misunderstanding the two ideas. You could literally write a dissertation that turned into a 5 volume treatise on the differences between the two ideologies. They are essentially the same two camps that have been fighting it out in conservative circles since the 1960's when you view the alt-right as an evolution of paleoconservatism.

[r3volution 3.0]

There is a certain overlap with the alt-right.

• anti-capitalism in the pre-modern sense ("money is dirty, corrupting...")
• collectivism in the pre-modern sense ("individualism is egoism, undermines community...")
• nationalism (though the neocons' nationalism is not racial)
• cultural conservatism of a secular variety

...basically, a return to the GOP of the 19th century, proto-fascism, "third way" politics, etc. It's guess it's no surprise then that they despise the libertarian faction within the modern GOP, as we're the heirs of their old enemies, the 19th century Jeffersonian Democrats.

[Tywysog Cymru]

...basically, a return to the GOP of the 19th century, proto-fascism, "third way" politics, etc. It's guess it's no surprise then that they despise the libertarian faction within the modern GOP, as we're the heirs of their old enemies, the 19th century Jeffersonian Democrats.

The 19th century GOP was anti-slavery so the alt-right probably would have hated it.

[Brian4Liberty]

From my understanding Neo-Conservativism started in revolutionary France during the 19th century as a nationalist branch off of classical liberalism. Into the 20th century it hit an extreme in fascism in Italy and Germany. With this in mind I believe they may have become what we now call the alt right and who we call Neo-Cons may really just be moderates.

Please correct me if I am wrong but the main platform of a Neo-Conservative platform would be:
Corpatalism
Strong national offense
Nationalism

Do you have a reference for this old definition of neoconservatism, or is this just your current understanding?

As used today in the US, this is a typical definition of neoconservatism:

This thread is intended to be a running reference list of those who advocate the neoconservative foreign policy agenda, including politicians, those in the media, and those at think-tanks and other organizations.

Quick definitions for use in this thread:

[*] - True neoconservatives: Someone who believes in a large, powerful, central government, especially when related to foreign policy. They will not really care about size and scope of government, taxes or spending. They probably (albeit sometimes secretly) support Common Core (Federal eduction control), Obamacare and Amnesty. They probably don't really care about the Second Amendment or the rest of the Bill of Rights. They may go with international standards rather than US Constitutional standards. If old enough, they very well may have been a former leftist-communist.

Their foreign policy will be very aggressive in most situations. They will believe in nation-building, nation changing and global manipulation. They will be particularly obsessed with anything related to Israel, Iran or Russia. Some of that obsession with Russia may stem from old communist ties and Stalin's betrayal of the international communist movement. The importance of spending for military contractors far outweighs any concerns about fiscal conservatism or spending. The military spending agenda results in a high amount of agenda overlap with advocates and lobbyists for the crony corporatist special interests generally referred to as the Military-Industrial complex by President Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[*]- Neoconservative on foreign policy: Fellow travelers with neoconservatives on some issues related to foreign policy. They may not align with neoconservatives on any other issues at all. Many average people in this category are unaware of the neoconservative agenda, but have been led into this position over the years. Often hard to distinguish from lobbyists for the military industrial complex.

...
More: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Reference-List

[r3volution 3.0]

The 19th century GOP was anti-slavery so the alt-right probably would have hated it.

They were anti-slavery but pro-segregation/deportation back to Africa.

...they and the alt-right would have got along just fine methinks.

[Tywysog Cymru]

They were anti-slavery but pro-segregation/deportation back to Africa.

...they and the alt-right would have got along just fine methinks.

They wish it happened now, but back then they would be fanatically against abolitionism as they would see it as anti-white.

[Mikezelot]

Do you have a reference for this old definition of neoconservatism, or is this just your current understanding?

As used today in the US, this is a typical definition of neoconservatism:

Thats just the conclusion I came to. Economically they seem to be more corpatalist then capitalist and they despise unions. All these have ties to the alt right.

[euphemia]

If you want to look at people who are pro-segregation, look at any liberal city. Why do you think San Francisco and New York have neighborhoods called Chinatown?

[Brian4Liberty]

Thats just the conclusion I came to. Economically they seem to be more corpatalist then capitalist and they despise unions. All these have ties to the alt right.

Except that they are in opposition to the alt-right. Not sure that neoconservatives "despise" unions. More the opposite. Does the alt-right support corporatism? Haven't heard that before.

Which commentators or politicians are you basing this on?

[Mikezelot]

Except that they are in opposition to the alt-right. Not sure that neoconservatives "despise" unions. More the opposite. Does the alt-right support corporatism? Haven't heard that before.

Which commentators or politicians are you basing this on?

Henry Ford would be an example of the alt right.

“How Will You Get Robots to Pay Union Dues?” “How Will You Get Robots to Buy Cars?”

[Brian4Liberty]

Henry Ford would be an example of the alt right.

How so? Have you been reading recent interviews with Henry Ford?

[Mikezelot]

Sorry just edited that post with this quote: “How Will You Get Robots to Pay Union Dues?” “How Will You Get Robots to Buy Cars?”

Also if they were on the side of unions then the uaw would be sending money to republicans

[Brian4Liberty]

Sorry just edited that post with this quote: “How Will You Get Robots to Pay Union Dues?” “How Will You Get Robots to Buy Cars?”

Not sure how that relates to neoconservatism. And the validity of that discussion is questionable. How is that proof that Henry Ford was a neoconservative?

[Mikezelot]

That's a quote from Henry Ford, he has said multiple times when he owned ford that he was against the workers forming a union.
And this is all based on my understanding of neo-conservatisim.

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Neoconservatism did not begin in 19th Century France. I'm assuming you're talking about Napoleon and the era after his death at the end of the 19th Century because nothing else I'm aware of would fit. Military expansionism is not something that is unique to Neocons; it's existed at every point in history after the creation of anything that could properly be called "civilization".

Neoconservatism was a rebirth of Wilsonian foreign policy and an outgrowth of the anti-Stalin, anti-USSR, Cold Warrior left; hence the idea that "a Neoconservative is a liberal who's been mugged by reality".

Neoconservatism:

-Doesn't really have an economic philosophy. Most of them supply-siders and neo-Keynesians. Some exceptions; Donald Rumsfeld liked Milton Friedman. Most Neocons sit somewhere between Reagan and Clinton in terms of economics (there's barely any difference between the two, to begin with), making them moderates. The vast majority of Neocons like modern free trade agreements like NAFTA.

-Support of a welfare state, though somewhat smaller than their those further to the left.

-Robust militarism in support of an American hegemony worldwide. This is the Wilsonian foreign policy mentioned above. It's globalist, but it's a different kind of globalism from someone further to the left. The Neocon globalist order has America at the head of it, whereas the globalist order of someone like Obama has America as just one nation among many and a genuine Marxian globalism has nations abolished altogether due to worker's revolutions.

-Open borders and very liberal economic policy; a belief in civic Americanism as opposed to racial, ethnic or religious.

-Moderates on social policy, similar to economics.

-Patriotism over nationalism.

The alt-right has next to nothing in common with Neoconservatism. The alt-right are much closer to paleocons like Sam Francis and the pre-WWII Old Right. I know he alt-right can be difficult to pin down at times, but there are some very bizarre ideas floating around about them and this is definitely one of them.