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Thread: Lies Anti-Vaxxers Tell: "Too Many Vaccines Overloads The Immune System"

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    "Study" says that vaccinations are up and that diabetes/obesity is up. Therefore, vaccines are causing diabetes/ obesity.
    Maybe you are onto something.... But the difference is I haven't heard of countless cases where a kid gets a shot and gains 20 pounds within a few hours. But if that did happen, I'm sure you'd still say vaccines are always safe.

    There have been so many perfectly healthy kids who got deadly sick after vaccines. But I imagine you have a chart to show why that's good and normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe






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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    Maybe you are onto something.... But the difference is I haven't heard of countless cases where a kid gets a shot and gains 20 pounds within a few hours. But if that did happen, I'm sure you'd still say vaccines are always safe.

    There have been so many perfectly healthy kids who got deadly sick after vaccines. But I imagine you have a chart to show why that's good and normal.
    Do you have a chart (or other reliable data) to show how often that occurs?

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Do you have a chart (or other reliable data) to show how often that occurs?
    I don't need one of your charts, I talk and listen to real people it's enough to concern me but you can go on injecting yourself like a junkie for all I care. Health isn't a fun lotto ticket.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I don't need one of your charts, I talk and listen to real people it's enough to concern me but you can go on injecting yourself like a junkie for all I care. Health isn't a fun lotto ticket.
    Just curious- how many kids do you personally know who suffered a serious reaction to a vaccine? (not persons heard about on the internet)

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    There is no evidence that too many vaccines overload the immune system.
    There is plenty of evidence. I posted one study earlier in this thread.

    Combining Childhood Vaccines at One Visit Is Not Safe

    Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons Volume 21 Number 2 Summer 2016

    ABSTRACT

    Although health authorities including the Centers for Disease
    Control and Prevention (CDC) claim that childhood vaccines are
    safe and recommend combining multiple vaccines during one
    visit, a review of data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting
    System (VAERS) shows a dose-dependent association between
    the number of vaccines administered simultaneously and the
    likelihood of hospitalization or death for an adverse reaction.
    Additionally, younger age at the time of the adverse reaction is
    associated with a higher risk of hospitalization or death.
    Besides statistical studies like this, many pediatricians have commented on the health of their patients in their clinical practice, and there are many doctors who slow down the vaccine schedule, selectively vaccinate, or do not vaccinate at all, based on their clinical experience.

    This is REAL science, not propaganda and vaccine religion.

    Your argument is an argument from silence, which is neither logical nor scientific. There are no studies to support your position. The CDC has admitted that they have never studied vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children, which is the only kind of study one could conduct to prove your position.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    There is plenty of evidence. I posted one study earlier in this thread.

    Combining Childhood Vaccines at One Visit Is Not Safe

    Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons Volume 21 Number 2 Summer 2016



    Besides statistical studies like this, many pediatricians have commented on the health of their patients in their clinical practice, and there are many doctors who slow down the vaccine schedule, selectively vaccinate, or do not vaccinate at all, based on their clinical experience.

    This is REAL science, not propaganda and vaccine religion.

    Your argument is an argument from silence, which is neither logical nor scientific. There are no studies to support your position. The CDC has admitted that they have never studied vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children, which is the only kind of study one could conduct to prove your position.
    Author is a psychologist- not a doctor or medical professional and anti-vax. He also says AIDs does not exist. The publication is a "pay to publish" ("Open") anti- vaccine publication (propaganda)and is anti- science based. Would hardly call the source "REAL science, not propaganda and vaccine religion".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associ...s_and_Surgeons

    The association is generally recognized as politically conservative or ultra-conservative, and its publication advocates a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism.
    AAPS opposes mandated evidence-based medicine and practice guidelines,
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-21-2017 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #127
    The anti-vax debate is so misrepresented. There's 2 groups. One wants a choice, the other wants mandatory inoculations. I don't see anyone walking around trying to force people NOT to get vaccinated, just like how there's no one around forcing people to get abortions.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

    ...I think we have moral obligations to disobey unjust laws, because non-cooperation with evil is as much as a moral obligation as cooperation with good. - MLK Jr.

    How to trigger a liberal: "I didn't get vaccinated."

  9. #128
    What an incredibly dishonest article to sell to the consumers that exposure to antigen in form of environmental is the same as getting a vaccine. The dishonest author of the article is hoping that you all think vaccines do not have adjuvants in it. Yep, it is the stuff they add to vaccines to create a bigger immune response so that your immune system is stressed to the point that they start producing memory immune cells. So no, just looking at antigen size and ignoring everything else in vaccines is misleading

    Also, just forget everything I just said and everyday environmental contact with antigens is on par with getting a vaccine. Why not make the single dose vaccines available to people who don't want the multi dose medications? I heard Andrew Wakefield make this argument before. He was talking about how some of his patients he talked to were requesting single dose vaccines but at the same the govt who regulates these vaccines were ending the programs that bought these vaccines. These parents could all be irrational but would it kill the govt to order up a few extra single dose vaccines for the very crazy people who want them.



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    What an incredibly dishonest article to sell to the consumers that exposure to antigen in form of environmental is the same as getting a vaccine. The dishonest author of the article is hoping that you all think vaccines do not have adjuvants in it. Yep, it is the stuff they add to vaccines to create a bigger immune response so that your immune system is stressed to the point that they start producing memory immune cells. So no, just looking at antigen size and ignoring everything else in vaccines is misleading

    Also, just forget everything I just said and everyday environmental contact with antigens is on par with getting a vaccine. Why not make the single dose vaccines available to people who don't want the multi dose medications? I heard Andrew Wakefield make this argument before. He was talking about how some of his patients he talked to were requesting single dose vaccines but at the same the govt who regulates these vaccines were ending the programs that bought these vaccines. These parents could all be irrational but would it kill the govt to order up a few extra single dose vaccines for the very crazy people who want them.
    Only a few vaccines use adjuvants. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/co...adjuvants.html

    Only some vaccines contain adjuvants.

    Aluminum is present in U.S. childhood vaccines that prevent hepatitis A, hepatitis B, diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTaP, Tdap), Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), human papillomavirus (HPV) and pneumococcus infection.

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    . The CDC has admitted that they have never studied vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children, which is the only kind of study one could conduct to prove your position.
    Aside from not being true that there's only one true scotsman experiment, it's horrifying.

    Intentionally exposing children to diseases is the type of experiment we expect from the Nazi government. Maybe even our own. The fact that the CDC refuses to do an immoral experiment lends credibility to them, not to the people who demand it.
    Last edited by angelatc; 08-21-2017 at 02:51 PM.

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    a review of data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting
    System (VAERS) ...
    This is REAL science, not propaganda and vaccine religion.
    .
    VAERS is an open system where literally anybody can report literally anything. There are no controls.

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Aside from not being true
    It is true, as Coleen Boyle has stated under oath in a Congressional testimony.



    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    VAERS is an open system where literally anybody can report literally anything. There are no controls.
    Yes, and that is its strength, as propaganda from the government is tightly controlled. How interesting that you would say this as a negative thing on a libertarian forum.

    Not to mention that the government has a huge conflict of interest when discussing vaccine safety.

    CDC’s Purchase of $4 Billion of Vaccines a Conflict of Interest in Overseeing Vaccine Safety
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    What an incredibly dishonest article.
    What's dishonest about it?

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    Yes, and that is its strength, as propaganda from the government is tightly controlled. How interesting that you would say this as a negative thing on a libertarian forum.
    The point was simply that it is not scientific. It's just unverified data collection.

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    It is true, as Coleen Boyle has stated under oath in a Congressional testimony.
    ]
    The part that wasn't true is the contention that a study that would purposely expose unprotected children to infectious disease is the only way to prove the point.



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The point was simply that it is not scientific. It's just unverified data collection.
    Data collection is part of science. Calling people "morons" when they don't agree with your views on vaccines is not.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    The part that wasn't true is the contention that a study that would purposely expose unprotected children to infectious disease is the only way to prove the point.
    That's the typical straw man argument. The fact is there are plenty of unvaccinated children already in the population that could be studied if this were truly the concern. But it is not. They know full well that unvaccinated children are healthier.
    There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
    (1 John 4:18)

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Created4 View Post
    That's the typical straw man argument. The fact is there are plenty of unvaccinated children already in the population that could be studied if this were truly the concern. But it is not. They know full well that unvaccinated children are healthier.
    Facts to back that claim up?

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    What's dishonest about it?
    It is dishonest because it omits part of the story. Antigen you encounter in your daily life is rarely delivered directly to or near your vascular system like with vaccines and unlike environmental antigens, they rarely come with boosters that promote an immune reaction to the host.

    I get a small fever every time I get a flu shot and I have always been told it was because of my immune system overreacting to the shot. This is sometime that probably doesn't happen to me when I breath in the same amount of flu antigen from the air. Your immune system doesn't react the same way to the different sources of the virus.

  24. #141
    Is there anyone in this thread who receives immunotherapy? Besides me?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Any time a sentence begins with the word so, the odds are good that a strawman will follow.
    Any time someone makes the above statement, you know they have no argument and are full of $#@!.
    There is no spoon.

  26. #143
    I guess nobody else is receiving immunotherapy besides me. My own experience in immunotherapy is that according to doctors who use it with patients, they do not give a whole lot at once, but build the dose over time. Patients go through rigorous testing to find the level of need. Doses and responses are carefully monitored.

    Believe the government or the UN, if you like, but please consider the actual standard of care as it is administered by doctors whose job is the immune system and how it affects the whole patient. I trust that experience a lot more than any bureaucrat or someone whose basic education on the subject comes from the internet.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  27. #144
    Still waiting to see who else is currently on immunotherapy.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Since you don't actually provide any actually quotes, and I'm not giving your garbage sites any traffic, I'm just going to look at the headlines and state that these links have absolutely no bearing to the point actually being made.

    I'm shocked.
    Honest question, not looking to quarrel. Is there an upper limit to how many shots a child can have before it becomes a concern to you? 26 shots by age 2, with as many as 5 shots in a single visit seems excessive to me. What if in 10 years, the number of vaccines on the 'schedule' went up to 36...46... 56... would you be concerned then? Is there no limit to how much stuff we pump into our kids before we step back and start to ask honest questions?
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  30. #146
    This is actually a concern, not just for the reasons a lot of people think. Food allergies are on the rise in a measurably dramatic way. Viruses are cultured in eggs, and the concentrated egg exposure can be very significant. For a child whose natural immunity is not yet fully developed, five shots that were cultured in eggs can be a different kind of overwhelming to the child and leave him or her with a lifelong allergy that will mean a lot of nonsense and label reading forever, and constant fear of the sneak ingredient.

    As Thomas Sowell says, "There are no solutions, only trade-offs."
    Last edited by euphemia; 08-22-2017 at 10:39 AM.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Honest question, not looking to quarrel. Is there an upper limit to how many shots a child can have before it becomes a concern to you? 26 shots by age 2, with as many as 5 shots in a single visit seems excessive to me. What if in 10 years, the number of vaccines on the 'schedule' went up to 36...46... 56... would you be concerned then? Is there no limit to how much stuff we pump into our kids before we step back and start to ask honest questions?
    If they wear a labcoat, they must be correct. It's axiomatic. Now shock the test subject to death please.

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Author is a psychologist- not a doctor or medical professional and anti-vax. He also says AIDs does not exist. The publication is a "pay to publish" ("Open") anti- vaccine publication (propaganda)and is anti- science based. Would hardly call the source "REAL science, not propaganda and vaccine religion".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associ...s_and_Surgeons
    WOW! TOUCHE!
    That had to sting.... Good job Zippy!

  33. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    This is actually a concern, not just for the reasons a lot of people think. Food allergies are on the rise in a measurably dramatic way. Viruses are cultured in eggs, and the concentrated egg exposure can be very significant. For a child whose natural immunity is not yet fully developed, five shots that were cultured in eggs can be a different kind of overwhelming to the child and leave him or her with a lifelong allergy that will mean a lot of nonsense and label reading forever, and constant fear of the sneak ingredient.

    As Thomas Sowell says, "There are no solutions, only trade-offs."
    A lot of people claim to have food allergies but don't really have them. One way to avoid a food allergy is to get exposed to foods- keeping kids from eating peanuts for example can be counter-productive in avoiding peanut allergies- it may instead make the body react to them like a foreign object instead of recognizing it as OK.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/...lth-guidelines

    Give babies peanut-based foods early to prevent allergies, doctors suggest


    Most babies should start eating peanut-containing foods well before their first birthdays, according to new guidelines that aim to protect high-risk tots and other youngsters from developing the dangerous food allergy.

    The guidelines from the US National Institutes of Health mark a shift in dietary advice, based on landmark research that found early exposure dramatically lowers a baby’s chances of becoming allergic.

    The recommendations released on Thursday spell out exactly how to introduce infants to peanut-based foods and when – for some, as early as four to six months of age – depending on whether they’re at high, moderate or low risk of developing one of the most troublesome food allergies.

    “We’re on the cusp of hopefully being able to prevent a large number of cases of peanut allergy,” said Dr Matthew Greenhawt of the American College of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology, a member of the NIH-appointed panel that wrote the guidelines.
    So are food allergies actually on the rise?


    http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/...they-dont-know

    Are Food Allergies On The Rise? Experts Say They Don't Know

    A new report from the National Academy of Sciences says it's hard to know how many people in the U.S. actually have food allergies or whether they're on the rise.

    Part of the challenge is this: Food allergies are often self-diagnosed and symptoms can be misinterpreted. Sometimes people can't distinguish a food allergy from other conditions such as lactose intolerance or gluten sensitivity, which don't fit the medical definition of an allergy.

    "There are a lot of misconceptions about what a food allergy is," says Dr. Virginia Stallings, a board-certified nutrition pediatrician at the The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and the chair of the committee that wrote the new report.

    One scenario is this: A parent of a young child introduces a new food — say, milk — into the diet, and then notices the child has an upset stomach or other symptoms of gastrointestinal distress.

    The parent may suspect a food allergy. But, perhaps, these are signs of lactose intolerance — a completely different condition.

    "The reason food allergy symptoms are often confused with other [conditions] such as lactose intolerance is because there's an overlap in some of the symptoms," Stallings explains.

    An allergy is an immune response to a food or other substance that is normally harmless. Common symptoms include hives and swelling or GI distress. Food allergies can be life threatening. Lactose intolerance, on the other hand, means a person can't easily digest the natural sugar found in milk. And, as the American Academy of Pediatrics points out in this FAQ on the topic, "while lactose intolerance can cause a great deal of discomfort, it will not produce a life-threatening reaction such as anaphylaxis."

    Adding to the confusion, food allergies can be complicated to diagnose.

    "We do not have an optimal diagnostic tool. There isn't one skin test or blood test" that can accurately determine whether a person has an allergy to a specific food, says Stallings.

    Stallings says if parents recognize clear signs of allergic reactions, such as swelling lips or difficulty breathing, they should seek emergency care.

    But, often times, the symptoms are milder. In these cases, rather than self-diagnosing an allergy, families should see an expert, such as a pediatric allergist. The National Academies of Sciences "committee really does recommend that people seek more expert advice," Stallings says.

    Lots of families jump to conclusions about food allergies before being tested. "We unfortunately see kids avoiding a food unnecessarily because of some fear of a potential allergy," says Bruce Lanser, who directs the pediatric food allergy program at National Jewish Health in Denver.

    Lanser says the gold standard test used to diagnose a food allergy is known as an oral food challenge. Under medical supervision, patients eat small amounts of the food they may be allergic to. "We start with a small amount of food and slowly give increasing doses up to a full serving," Lanser explains. If the patient has a reaction during the test, "we obviously stop and treat."

    Lanser says he tests many of his patients once a year to see if they've outgrown their food allergies. And often they have. "Milk and egg allergy are commonly outgrown," he says. And "about 1 in 5 people outgrow their peanut allergy."

    and the concentrated egg exposure can be very significant.
    Just live virus vaccines are cultured in eggs- and those are very few (MMR, yellow fever, flu). Very little egg protein remains in the final vaccine product so exposure is incredibly small (you will get far more by eating one slice of bread or for kids a few Cherrios). https://www.everydayhealth.com/speci...ggs/index.aspx
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-22-2017 at 12:40 PM.

  34. #150
    I suppose all the hundreds of scratch and prick tests I went through were just fun and games? And why I experience serious symptoms if I eat certain fruits more than three days in a row, or have eggplant or banana at all?

    The connection to vaccines is not lost on me. The protien in the food contains the allergen. Vaccines, cultured in eggs, cause protiens to be introduced through the skin and vascular system, which is not how they are meant to be received.

    This has been my experience over the last 25 years or so.

    Food allergies were unheard of 150 years ago because people ate a locally grown, seasonal diet. They ate from the earth around them, where they had natural immunity. This is why local honey is considered to be beneficial. These days we really do not know what we are eating, how it was raised, or whether it has been modified. Peanuts were among the first to be genetically modified so that the protien changed. This is why so many kids have allergies today.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

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