Building Your Home w/o A Mortgage

[andrew1229649]

So I was doing some research on the steps one might take in the pursuit of building a home without going into debt. I don't want a "small house" either so you can keep those comments out. :P I came across a very inspiring article found here http://www.motherearthnews.com/Moder...Debt-Free.aspx The guy in the article says it took him about 3 years which sounds reasonable if you have a spouse. Even if it takes 5 years, It would be better to sacrifice for 5 years than end up paying way more than you borrowed for 15-25 years.

Any thoughts, comments, or complaints would be great.
P.S. No "small house" comments please, the things are not practical or made for some long term living arrangements.

[TruckinMike]

Start building it and don't look back. But if you are in a high property tax area I would suggest building it with camouflage in mind. A friend of mine lives in a barn/home and he saves thousands every year. Our homes are close to the same square footage but I pay over three times what he pays - we're in the same county and out of the nearest city limits by 3-4 miles.

TMike

[The Goat]

Sounds like a plan, go for it! I know a couple of people that did this. They really enjoyed it. Although one of their houses burned down less than a year after completion. (the fire wasn't a result of any thing he did wrong) He hired a bulider to rebuild his house and was able to change the little things he ended up wanting different. Also had a chunk of change left over. Not a total loss but the insurance payment couldn't replace all the love that went into his work.


nice to see a fellow SCer, I'm in greenville.

[roho76]

I have been looking into this lately. I have wanted to use insulated concrete along with radiant heat to make a neat semi modernistic home on the cheap. The thing I like most about concrete is it's ability to withstand the weather. Even while building it. With stick framed homes you have to do all the underground. Then when it's time to frame it up you have to get it all enclosed and weather proof relatively quickly to protect it from the elements. I found 20 Acres of bank owned property ripe for the building that I'm about to purchase for dirt cheap and I plan to put up a concrete ranch.

Anybody know about concrete building, forms, insulation, textures? I'm trying to decide weather to make the outside decorative pattern in the concrete or stucco over it or some sort of siding. Any people know about radiant heat buried in concrete? I basically want my heat and hot water to consume very little energy.

Quite honestly I can see why affordable and energy efficient concrete homes aren't popping up everywhere but it seems builders are still stuck on building these extremely inefficient cookie cutter money pits.

[driller80545]

Quite honestly I can see why affordable and energy efficient concrete homes aren't popping up everywhere but it seems builders are still stuck on building these extremely inefficient cookie cutter money pits.

This type of construction is very popular in Mexico and Central America for the obvious reasons. Very efficient and long lived.

[fisharmor]

Quite honestly I can see why affordable and energy efficient concrete homes aren't popping up everywhere but it seems builders are still stuck on building these extremely inefficient cookie cutter money pits.

I blame code.
With strict building codes, the code doesn't become the bar, it becomes the target.
There are a limited number of targets, and stick framing is the most affordable, mainly because of economy of scale. Code is well defined across the country, and you have your pick of unskilled and semiskilled laborers to put them up.
A concrete home is going to run you at least twice what a stick-framed home will run, and then you wouldn't be able to afford your dog$#@!-brown-with-pink-flecks granite countertops which are going to be passe' in six months but you can't live without.



I look into construction methods once in a while and my current favorite is cob.
The materials are likely free, it lends itself to much more organic shapes, and you can do things like radiant heating by just mudding utilities into the structure.
I think overall the idea of making a play-doh house appeals to the kid in me, too.
The only issue I have with it is that I am pretty against the idea of ranch homes. With cob it seems like you're stuck doing a timber-framed type of arrangement.

Also, in a lot of the US the full basement seems to be the norm. AFAIK the full basement evolved because the builder needs to dig down a certain number of feet in order to get to ground solid enough to support the house. If you look at 100+ year old houses in those areas, there's maybe a 5-6' tall basement that's used as a root cellar or storage, but it's assumed it's going to be wet and dirty down there.
Then in the 50's-60's builders figured out if they go down a couple more feet they can get useable space out of the basement.
Of course, the second you stop paying attention to your gutters, it floods, and any finish work is ruined. So they put in sump pumps to eject the groundwater, special sealants on the concrete form walls, french drains outside, etc.

My house has a basement that flooded, and I tore everything out, and spent $9000 on getting a trench busted through the foundation to put in a drain pipe and ejection sump. And it largely works.
But if I was building my own house, I'd probably skip all that crap and just not have a basement. I'd probably just go with timber framing for cob, and have the timbers sitting on gigantic footers, have the ground floor at least 1' off of grade so it's fairly impossible to flood, and skip the slab altogether. Of course, some details would need to be worked out.
If such a thing was even possible for the locality's code, that is.

[roho76]

This type of construction is very popular in Mexico and Central America for the obvious reasons. Very efficient and long lived.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. I heard concrete cost slightly more than conventional stick frame but when you add in the cost of energy savings over the matter of a couple years it more than pays for itself.

[Barrex]

It seems like a no-brainer to me. I heard concrete cost slightly more than conventional stick frame but when you add in the cost of energy savings over the matter of a couple years it more than pays for itself.

In Croatia aerated concrete blocks(ytong) are popular. If you are going for "pure" concrete you should do a research on moisture(if you neglect it you will have big problems).

[bwlibertyman]

Concrete homes sound interesting. I've often thought about building an inground house to help insulate it.

[Shane Harris]

As an architecture student I approve this thread. I would love to have a concrete house of my own someday (for practical and aesthetic reasons). I would even moreso love to live completely energy self-sufficient for obvious "off-the-grid" reasons. Finding someone to build outside of the norm is difficult though.

[The Northbreather]

I have been looking into this lately. I have wanted to use insulated concrete along with radiant heat to make a neat semi modernistic home on the cheap. The thing I like most about concrete is it's ability to withstand the weather. Even while building it. With stick framed homes you have to do all the underground. Then when it's time to frame it up you have to get it all enclosed and weather proof relatively quickly to protect it from the elements. I found 20 Acres of bank owned property ripe for the building that I'm about to purchase for dirt cheap and I plan to put up a concrete ranch.

Anybody know about concrete building, forms, insulation, textures? I'm trying to decide weather to make the outside decorative pattern in the concrete or stucco over it or some sort of siding. Any people know about radiant heat buried in concrete? I basically want my heat and hot water to consume very little energy.

Quite honestly I can see why affordable and energy efficient concrete homes aren't popping up everywhere but it seems builders are still stuck on building these extremely inefficient cookie cutter money pits.

If your [pouring traditional ready-mix concrete delivered on a truck from a plant I would suggest renting SYMONS forms and forming yourself http://www.daytonsuperior.com/lists/...t.aspx?id=1313.

Many places with very humid climates have been building with steel frames and concrete more frequently because of their resistance to expansion. They sometimes use styrofoam as forms for the concrete.

There are however many new alternative building methods that use cement mixed with other materials (papercrete ect) that may work for you depending on your local codes.

One thing to keep in mind is the use of passive solar heating especially if your making use of concrete. Make sure to orient your house and windows with the thermal mass (huge chunk of concrete) facing south for maximum solar gain (free winter heat).

As far as the radiant floor, yes you can buy kits and install them into concrete and they are much more efficient and comfortable than most other options but cost more in the install. The most efficient configuration (if you have a wood source)would likely be to have an outdoor wood boiler and solar electric to power its fans and pumps.

You might what to look into slipforming and cordwood walls as other ways to use cement and on site materials.

[jkr]

hempcrete!

[Bruehound]

I built a hyper efficient ferrocement home with steel framing. 8" deep wall assembly with spray foam insulation for R39 walls and R70 attic. 3 kW solar PV array and solar water heater for household hot water and also for a small hydronic heater. The hot water also powers a whole house desiccant wheel dehumidifier so we can keep RH at 45% and that allows us to keep air conditioner setpoint at 78-80 without loss of comfort.

Here in Louisiana, we get 80% in solar tax credits so even when factoring in in solar electric and solar water heating cost, we ended up with a net zero home for around $117/sq ft.

[cstarace]

I built a hyper efficient ferrocement home with steel framing. 8" deep wall assembly with spray foam insulation for R39 walls and R70 attic. 3 kW solar PV array and solar water heater for household hot water and also for a small hydronic heater. The hot water also powers a whole house desiccant wheel dehumidifier so we can keep RH at 45% and that allows us to keep air conditioner setpoint at 78-80 without loss of comfort.

Here in Louisiana, we get 80% in solar tax credits so even when factoring in in solar electric and solar water heating cost, we ended up with a net zero home for around $117/sq ft.

Very nice, man! Wish I was that good with my hands.

[FrancisMarion]

Mr. Proenneke would have voted for RP.



If you have the land you can build for way less than $100 per ft^2. I would suggest taking a look at a bird building a nest...

All the materials are outside your door. Just work em. Don't pay for concrete, use stone for thermal mass or look into rammed earth depending on your climate. If you are building without a mortgage, then you are building w/o a loan. Forget the inspector, forget the code. The code is a racket and a standard for those that don't know how to build. Do you think vernacular architecture that has lasted generations would pass code? Building codes have killed the beauty in residential architecture.

Don't be afraid to add on as you need it. Let it take shape.

Lastly, I would suggest using windows and doors placement as your wind tunnel to cool your home depending on your lattitude. Air tight buildings for Air Conditioning is bad for buildings and you probably don't want to be dependent on it anyway.

Although I use power tools I can also build with nothing but hand tools and timber. I would be happy to suggest some methods for you to help you realize your goal.

[roho76]

I would like to build a concrete oval ranch house with a small cellar for a built in safe (I can get an old bank safe door for a great price) and tornado/bomb/Tri-letter agency raid shelter. I want really high ceilings on one side and slope back to 10' ceilings in the back. Something simple yet aesthetically pleasing and kinda modern and of course extremely energy efficient.

I built a hyper efficient ferrocement home with steel framing. 8" deep wall assembly with spray foam insulation for R39 walls and R70 attic. 3 kW solar PV array and solar water heater for household hot water and also for a small hydronic heater. The hot water also powers a whole house desiccant wheel dehumidifier so we can keep RH at 45% and that allows us to keep air conditioner setpoint at 78-80 without loss of comfort.

Here in Louisiana, we get 80% in solar tax credits so even when factoring in in solar electric and solar water heating cost, we ended up with a net zero home for around $117/sq ft.

Awesome home Brue. Is that stucco on the outside of your house or is that the natural concrete? You mention "spray foam insulation for R39 walls". Is that inside the concrete or did you stick frame walls inside and stick the insulation behind the drywall? I'm curious because I heard you don't want to build with un-insulated concrete exterior walls. That's why I was looking at ICF blocks but I like your method much better. Did you use forms or do you apply "ferrocement" like a drywall mud and add layer after layer?

Is that your passive solar hot water on the small building? How well does it work when the sun doesn't shine?

Mr. Proenneke would have voted for RP.



If you have the land you can build for way less than $100 per ft^2. I would suggest taking a look at a bird building a nest...

All the materials are outside your door. Just work em. Don't pay for concrete, use stone for thermal mass or look into rammed earth depending on your climate. If you are building without a mortgage, then you are building w/o a loan. Forget the inspector, forget the code. The code is a racket and a standard for those that don't know how to build. Do you think vernacular architecture that has lasted generations would pass code? Building codes have killed the beauty in residential architecture.

Don't be afraid to add on as you need it. Let it take shape.

Lastly, I would suggest using windows and doors placement as your wind tunnel to cool your home depending on your lattitude. Air tight buildings for Air Conditioning is bad for buildings and you probably don't want to be dependent on it anyway.

Although I use power tools I can also build with nothing but hand tools and timber. I would be happy to suggest some methods for you to help you realize your goal.

I like this idea too. I want to incorporate as much natural materials as possible. Exposed wood beams, natural stone, concrete, steel beams/trusses. I actually wanted to cut down a whole tree and put it in the center of the house as a main support for the ceiling.

[Bruehound]

The exterior substrate that looks like stucco is the ferrocement. It gets troweled on like stucco but it's loaded with fibers so it is actually a structural stress skin which unifies the entire structure so any lateral forces are distributed throughout the framing.

The steel framing of the perimeter is 6" studs and the company that fabricated my framing panels developed a storm resistant construction system whereby the perimeter framing is attached to footers 28 inches below grade and then the slab is poured so your framing is embedded 2 feet into the slab. It gets more than windy in these parts from time to time. PM me if you want info on the company i used for my steel framing system.

For the wall assembly. The trade off you make for high strength steel is that steel is very conductive and you have to mitigate heat transfer through thermal bridging. To accomplish this I used a variation of the "Mooney Wall" technique- essentially bumping out the interior of the perimeter framing with horizontal 2x2's(like furring). And even at these1 inch by 1 inch points of attachment I used an aerogel spacer for additional thermal break. The wall cavity is filled with 2 1/2 inches of closed cell sprayfoam and then we used spray in fiberglass and shaved it at the furring. As you can see before the sheetrock it creates a neat optical illusion with the housing seemingly floating and no visible vertical framing.





I also have two interior walls that are each 5000 lbs of Adobe block for thermal mass and also to naturally help regulate excess humidity. We get a good bit of that in the bayou. "Air you can wear"



Yes, the out building is our pump shed and water handling and all of our hot water storage. In this region, you can reasonably expect 85-90% of your annual hot water usage to come from the solar thermal systems. We run our solar heated water through a tankless propane heater so for the few days a year when solar resources are insufficient, the tankless kicks in.

[andrew1229649]

BrueHound, What is the cost to build a home like this? Cost per square foot?

[roho76]

around $117/sq ft.

From his post above.

Awesome thread is awesome.

[roho76]

@ Bruehound.

From the cross section it looks like very little of your exterior walls are concrete. Just the thin layer on the outside and most of the guts of your wall is the steel skeleton and spray foam insulation. Isn't the spray insulation very costly per sq/ft? I wanted to avoid using materials like drywall and wood studs. I don't want to build a concrete home so it looks like a regular stick framed house on the inside. I like the outside of your house but it seems like the interior is like a normal home. Is it not a good idea to use the ICF blocks and leave a natural concrete interior. The more I look into your moisture barrier comment the more I'm curious about sweating and moisture problems. I'm in Michigan so we get the extreme ends of the weather spectrum. I just like the look of exposed concrete. Kinda like this:

[Bruehound]

From the cross section it looks like very little of your exterior walls are concrete. Just the thin layer on the outside and most of the guts of your wall is the steel skeleton and spray foam insulation. Isn't the spray insulation very costly per sq/ft? I wanted to avoid using materials like drywall and wood studs. I don't want to build a concrete home so it looks like a regular stick framed house on the inside. I like the outside of your house but it seems like the interior is like a normal home. Is it not a good idea to use the ICF blocks and leave a natural concrete interior. The more I look into your moisture barrier comment the more I'm curious about sweating and moisture problems. I'm in Michigan so we get the extreme ends of the weather spectrum. I just like the look of exposed concrete. Kinda like this

:

You are correct, the ferrocement is thin but very high strength. I've had service tech's from satellite company etc get frustrated because even their masonry bits were breaking trying to drill into the material. Yes, the house is more conventional on the interior finishing(though the floorplan is unusual and the adobe walls give it great warmth and character). I like the look of what you are going for, too. Just a matter of preference and what works in your area. I was building with design considerations of hurricanes and humidity. For additional humidity control, we use a whole house desiccant wheel dehumidifier. It uses solar hot water as an energy source to regenerate the desiccant material. There is a natural balance in that design in that the load demand for dehumidification tends to track closely with the solar resources available- i.e. longer sunnier days in summer when humidity control is crucial.

Cost of closed cell is not cheap but its coming down and varies by region. That is why we only used 2.5" and finished the cavity with sprayed in fiberglass. Anytime you use a depth of over 2" with closed cell it also will act as a vapor barrier.

[Ninja Homer]

This is what I'd like to build: http://www.undergroundhousing.com/

His construction methods are ingenious

[roho76]

Mr. Proenneke would have voted for RP.



If you have the land you can build for way less than $100 per ft^2. I would suggest taking a look at a bird building a nest...

All the materials are outside your door. Just work em. Don't pay for concrete, use stone for thermal mass or look into rammed earth depending on your climate. If you are building without a mortgage, then you are building w/o a loan. Forget the inspector, forget the code. The code is a racket and a standard for those that don't know how to build. Do you think vernacular architecture that has lasted generations would pass code? Building codes have killed the beauty in residential architecture.

Don't be afraid to add on as you need it. Let it take shape.

Lastly, I would suggest using windows and doors placement as your wind tunnel to cool your home depending on your lattitude. Air tight buildings for Air Conditioning is bad for buildings and you probably don't want to be dependent on it anyway.

Although I use power tools I can also build with nothing but hand tools and timber. I would be happy to suggest some methods for you to help you realize your goal.

You might be interested in looking at Thomas Massie's site:
http://massiehouse.blogspot.com/

Talk about making a house from the earth.

[FrancisMarion]

You might be interested in looking at Thomas Massie's site:
http://massiehouse.blogspot.com/

Talk about making a house from the earth.

Aha! "Thomas in Kentucky". It is a small world after all. Thanks for the link.

[bwlibertyman]

I really like the underground idea. I've thought about building a house into a hill. It is amazing that he built it mostly underground. Very cool. Good thread.

[Toureg89]

im not too much into construction, but being on vacation here in Morocco/Spain, both my family's several decade old 3 story house and my cousins apartment in Spain are built from what seems to be continoues slabs of concrete, and it keeps the buildings at least 10-20 degrees cooler in the heat.

being a Florida boy with one of those "cookie cutter houses", its a HUGE difference in comfort.

[Toureg89]

asked my aunt, and the wall is made up of bricks, with cement/sand poured on the outside.

[PaulConventionWV]

So I was doing some research on the steps one might take in the pursuit of building a home without going into debt. I don't want a "small house" either so you can keep those comments out. :P I came across a very inspiring article found here http://www.motherearthnews.com/Moder...Debt-Free.aspx The guy in the article says it took him about 3 years which sounds reasonable if you have a spouse. Even if it takes 5 years, It would be better to sacrifice for 5 years than end up paying way more than you borrowed for 15-25 years.

Any thoughts, comments, or complaints would be great.
P.S. No "small house" comments please, the things are not practical or made for some long term living arrangements.

My dad wants to do this. Unlike most of us, however, he has actually DONE it, since he's a construction contractor. He has completely changed both houses we have lived in. He's a carpenter, so I have no doubt he's capable. The question is, how does someone who has no knowledge of construction do something like this?

What's more, he says he can do it from the top down, so as to create an initial shelter and then just make it so that it shelters more as he goes along. If you go from the ground up, you don't have a shelter until you put the roof on.

[ZzzImAsleep]

Yeah, I would have no idea how to even begin a project like this. It seems way too advanced for someone with no knowledge to just start to tackle on a whim.

[helmuth_hubener]

Just buy an old mobile home. You could have your own house for single digits per square foot, depending on your local market! Seriously.

Division of labor. Why build it yourself, when people will sell you one at such a ridiculous discount, as if it were a broken used car?