Need Help and advice on Garage Heating

[Schifference]

I live in Connecticut. No Natural Gas available. Fuel oil readily available.

I have not been able to use this detached garage because of condensation issues with the concrete floor once the doors are opened. When I go into the garage it is always very cold inside it. The garage is built into the hill. It could be pouring rain outside for a week with many inches of rainfall and I never get a drop of water inside the garage. But, on a nice day when I enter the garage, as mentioned very cold inside garage, and open the overhead doors, the floor gets lots of moisture on it due to condensation.

I want to heat the garage. I can acquire a Oil Fired Forced air unit and an oil tank. I plan to power vent the furnace out the side wall. The furnace is 110,000 BTU. There is no plenum on top of the unit. My primary goal is to get heat as easily and cheaply inside the garage to warm it up. Not worried at this time about heating the second floor.

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This back corner where the orange snow blower is where I would want to put the oil tank. I know there needs to be min 5' clearance between the tank and appliance.

Any advice or input will be appreciated.

[acptulsa]

The second floor will get warm before the ground floor does.

Do you want it warm, or just want to dry it out? Because a dehumidifier would be more economical to operate, and sealing those doors would be somewhat easier than insulating them.

[oyarde]

I am old and do not do any more brutal cold weather work in mine than what is needed. I just use a portable propane tank heater. Bought it for , probably 45 FRN's , I already had some etra propane tanks .They cost about 20 FRN's to fill , not sure how many hours one lasts on the low heat setting. I managed last winter ( mild ) on less than one tank . I have an extra wood stove out there too , but I never hooked it up because I did not want to lose all the room.

[Suzanimal]

I am old and do not do any more brutal cold weather work in mine than what is needed. I just use a portable propane tank heater. Bought it for , probably 45 FRN's , I already had some etra propane tanks .They cost about 20 FRN's to fill , not sure how many hours one lasts on the low heat setting. I managed last winter ( mild ) on less than one tank . I have an extra wood stove out there too , but I never hooked it up because I did not want to lose all the room.

My dad used one of those in his garage in the winter and it kept it toasty warm in there.

[Anti Federalist]

Woodstove

[HVACTech]

I live in Connecticut. No Natural Gas available. Fuel oil readily available.

I have not been able to use this detached garage because of condensation issues with the concrete floor once the doors are opened. When I go into the garage it is always very cold inside it. The garage is built into the hill. It could be pouring rain outside for a week with many inches of rainfall and I never get a drop of water inside the garage. But, on a nice day when I enter the garage, as mentioned very cold inside garage, and open the overhead doors, the floor gets lots of moisture on it due to condensation.

I want to heat the garage. I can acquire a Oil Fired Forced air unit and an oil tank. I plan to power vent the furnace out the side wall. The furnace is 110,000 BTU. There is no plenum on top of the unit. My primary goal is to get heat as easily and cheaply inside the garage to warm it up. Not worried at this time about heating the second floor.

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This back corner where the orange snow blower is where I would want to put the oil tank. I know there needs to be min 5' clearance between the tank and appliance.

Any advice or input will be appreciated.

that should work just fine, and probably be big enough to heat the entire building in the future.
so,
I am going to assume an upflow unit. (pulls air in at the bottom, discharges air out of the top)
chose a spot where you can discharge the air towards the center of the room. you will need to order a plenum made at a sheetmetal shop. (do not make one yourself. it has to be metal / non-combustible) look at the top of the unit and you will be able to tell what size. then have them make it at least 18" tall.
mount 4 to 6 discharge air grills that you can adjust the direction of.

cut the bottom, return (inlet) air hole to the standard size for the air filter. place the filter directly over the hole. (a "Z" channel will work for a holder)

with so little ductwork, you will need to check the amp draw of the blower motor while it is running. if it draws too many amp's. slide a piece of sheetmetal over the inlet air side.. (restrict the inlet air) until the amp draw drops to FLA. (full load amps) then screw it in place.

do not mount the thermostat on an exterior wall. mount it on one of those posts that I can see. also, mount it out of the discharge air flow.

for the Chevy Truck you can find restoration stuff here.

http://www.lmctruck.com/chevrolet/

they even have stuff for my Dodge! yay!

[HVACTech]

Woodstove

to stop the floor from sweating? LMFAO!!

I am not even sure that you know HOW a woodstove heats... is it by conduction or convection AF?
do you even know what the other TWO methods of heat transfer are?

"I lights the fire" (is not an answer AF)

for the smart people. yes.
there REALLY are four methods of heat transfer.
you can look up the first three. the fourth is "latent"

comment and I will explain it.

[presence]

My primary goal is to get heat as easily and cheaply inside the garage to warm it up.

Pellet stove. There is someone local that will deliver you a pallet of bags. Fuel cost will be 1/2 oil or propane.

Check out wiseway, no electronics to break... or heatilator, easy to service. Either machine is about $1500 new; you can find used heatilators for sub $500 on craigslist.

I disagree with HVAC, a wood burning appliance will dehydrate any space and will surely dry that floor out.

[Danke]

For a workshop, infloor heating is great, but not cheap to install now that you have a slab.

[presence]

For a workshop, infloor heating is great, but not cheap to install now that you have a slab.

I did slab on slab one time for a 3 car garage to apartment conversion; double 6 mil vapor barrier, then 8" wire mesh with 1/2 pex loop 16" centers tied down. Poured 3" of fibred concrete. That floor is glorious in the winter.

[Danke]

I did slab on slab one time for a 3 car garage to apartment conversion; double 6 mil vapor barrier, then 8" wire mesh with 1/2 pex loop 16" centers tied down. Poured 3" of fibred concrete. That floor is glorious in the winter.

In my climate, need good insulation below. Doable, just not as efficient.

[Schifference]

I was thinking of creating a channel along the floor on the far cement wall and directing the hot air from the oil fired forced air furnace through the concrete/cement tunnel thinking that the mass would heat up and retain heat rather than just blowing air. What do you think?

[HVACTech]

Pellet stove. There is someone local that will deliver you a pallet of bags. Fuel cost will be 1/2 oil or propane.

Check out wiseway, no electronics to break... or heatilator, easy to service. Either machine is about $1500 new; you can find used heatilators for sub $500 on craigslist.

I disagree with HVAC, a wood burning appliance will dehydrate any space and will surely dry that floor out.

when my customers complain about the floor "sweating" in the morning. (and want to "dry it out" ) I tell them to turn up the A/C at night.
this can happen in commercial kitchens. here in the south.
the problem is that the floor is below the dewpoint. THAT it why it sweats.

when you go to the super market, those glass doors in the frozen food section? they are heated to keep them above the dewpoint.

peace.

the only hard-core anarchist that I pick on anymore is anti-federalist.
I would think that the reason would be OBVIOUS on a site with Ron Pauls name on the banner..
but it would seem this is not so.

[presence]

the problem is that the floor is below the dewpoint. THAT it why it sweats.

yes but with a wood burning appliance in the room you're going to dehydrate the air, which is going to lower the dewpoint

A average wood stove will pull 5 gallons of water a day out of the air in your home

A higher dew point indicates more moisture in the air

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dew_point

so a wood stove will lower the dew point by creating a condition of less moisture in the air, therefore it wont condensate.

[HVACTech]

I was thinking of creating a channel along the floor on the far cement wall and directing the hot air from the oil fired forced air furnace through the concrete/cement tunnel thinking that the mass would heat up and retain heat rather than just blowing air. What do you think?

human experience with large commercial frozen food warehouses has indicated that concrete is a rather incredible thermal heat sink... it just won't stop!

I Learned this when I was tasked with converting a warehouse. to ALL frozen.
to protect the concrete floor in the front section. we have to keep it at or above zero Fahrenheit.
anyhow.

your original idea is the best one. and, you can get that damn truck fixed if you are warm!
yes, I noticed that the slab is below grade. an automatic system set for "freeze protection" should keep the slab above dew-point.
as Acptulsa pointed out, this will also serve the upper section for the same purpose.

as the illustrious Danke pointed out. "Radiant" heating systems are best for this application.
this is also the third method of heat transfer. (the one that I did not mention)
there are many different types BTW.
they heat surfaces, not the "air" in between.

you can see one in action at any auto dealership.
see that thing on the ceiling? it looks like a pipe with reflectors around it...

that is why you feel warm as soon as the $#@!ing door is closed!

[HVACTech]

yes but with a wood burning appliance in the room you're going to dehydrate the air, which is going to lower the dewpoint

A average wood stove will pull 5 gallons of water a day out of the air in your home


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dew_point

so a wood stove will lower the dew point by creating a condition of less moisture in the air, therefore it wont condensate.

yah. "humidity" is a funny thing.. especially when it gets "relative"
it has the ability to ignore gravity... how cool is that!

and in a controlled environment, you are correct sir.

however, in a garage, the "air" gets douched. (purged) on a semi-frequent basis.

think of it this way. did Thomas Jefferson recommend frequent revolutions?

[osan]

Hmmm... I'm partial to gas. It is WAY cleaner than oil. I had oil heat in my house in NJ and the tank leaked into the ground. Had the tank not been sitting on the property line, the insurance company would have told me to take a hike. The clean up was $130K (!!!) and was treated as if I'd discovered a nuke in my yard. It was ridiculous.

That said, a 275 gallon oil tank (typical size) takes up a lot of space inside - to my eyes, that is. I'd put it outside, perhaps under a shed roof just to keep most of the water off it.

How about an external wood/coal heater? The unit sits outside the building. I've heated with wood and coal and like it... but then, I am a blacksmith and am partial to the stench of coal forges.

Nice garage.

[Schifference]

From what I have gathered, a tank outside is prone to moisture collecting inside the tank from condensation due to the extreme temperature swings. Moisture gets inside the tank and then it rusts from the inside out. If I am able to acquire this furnace and tank for cheap as expected I figure I can put it inside and move it outside at a future date if I choose to do that. I have lived here for more than 3 years and have not been able to use that garage. Too cold in winter. Too far from house. Too wet in spring and summer. This year I want and need to get active out there. I want to make that into my workshop. Finishing that nice Chevy Truck would be a good start. I also ordered a floor fan that is supposed to dry floors and move 3200 CFM. From my recollection it is amazing how freaking cold that garage is even in July. One year, I left all 3 doors open and the windows upstair hoping to get the air moving and dry the floor with no positive result. The only way that floor has stayed dry for me is with the overhead doors down and keeping the cold air inside it. There could be torrential downpours for a week outside and not a drop in the garage until I open those overhead doors on a nice day.

[HVACTech]

Hmmm... I'm partial to gas. It is WAY cleaner than oil. I had oil heat in my house in NJ and the tank leaked into the ground. Had the tank not been sitting on the property line, the insurance company would have told me to take a hike. The clean up was $130K (!!!) and was treated as if I'd discovered a nuke in my yard. It was ridiculous.

That said, a 275 gallon oil tank (typical size) takes up a lot of space inside - to my eyes, that is. I'd put it outside, perhaps under a shed roof just to keep most of the water off it.

How about an external wood/coal heater? The unit sits outside the building. I've heated with wood and coal and like it... but then, I am a blacksmith and am partial to the stench of coal forges.

Nice garage.

let me see if I got this right.
you ignored a leaking oil tank, OR you did not know that the tank was leaking... it nearly cost you 130K.... and.
you recommend that he place the tank someplace where he possibly cannot tell if his tank leaks...

then you then recommend a non-automatic system to warm up his slab.... and himself..

and this will get the truck fixed? how?

[Schifference]

After considering all options, I went with a coal stoker. I got a great deal on this stove. $400 with direct vent. I plan to investigate modifying it to be a waste oil burner too.

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[CPUd]

It seems kinda close to that corner. Is that wood, concrete, or plaster over brick?

I know someone who has a stove like that, it is surrounded by brick, because it is on a slab where a fireplace used to be. You could definitely heat both floors with it. I think you will need an oscillating fan to move some of that hot air around.

[Ronin Truth]

How about a little 1500 watt electric heater on a timer plug switch?

[FindLiberty]

It seems kinda close ....

Yikes, IMO that's way too close for that kind of "hot spot" fire box.

It's not a modern 98% PVC flue pipe furnace with very low clearance specs.

I looked closer at picture, that's a solid concrete wall - never mind... I guess

Will the roof burn? Needs a BIG fan?

I don't like it.

[Anti Federalist]

Cool, not quite the woodstove idea, but close, I had a buddy of mine install one similar to that up Maine and he loves it.

What type and size of coal and how much does it cost by you?

After considering all options, I went with a coal stoker. I got a great deal on this stove. $400 with direct vent. I plan to investigate modifying it to be a waste oil burner too.

[Anti Federalist]

I've heated with wood and coal and like it... but then, I am a blacksmith and am partial to the stench of coal forges.

I'm surprised HVACTech didn't tell you that there is no way you could be a blacksmith without going on, at length about thermal conductivity of metals.

I too, enjoy a good whiff of bituminous smoke as well.

[Anti Federalist]

Go home, you're drunk.

to stop the floor from sweating? LMFAO!!

I am not even sure that you know HOW a woodstove heats... is it by conduction or convection AF?
do you even know what the other TWO methods of heat transfer are?

"I lights the fire" (is not an answer AF)

for the smart people. yes.
there REALLY are four methods of heat transfer.
you can look up the first three. the fourth is "latent"

comment and I will explain it.

[HVACTech]

Yikes, IMO that's way too close for that kind of "hot spot" fire box.

It's not a modern 98% PVC flue pipe furnace with very low clearance specs.

I looked closer at picture, that's a solid concrete wall - never mind... I guess

Will the roof burn? Needs a BIG fan?

I don't like it.

yah, that unit is a radiant heater. sure, you will [B]still get some convection[/B] out of it. (it is hot after all)
2 of the 4 heating surfaces are blocked. but it will heat those concrete walls nicely!

coal? hell, and I thought oil heat was nasty.
it looks like it has a blower on it to aid combustion... I am guessing that is the "stoker" part.
and not the person who has to keep shoveling the coal...

they sell bulk coal up there? my Dodge would get pissed at me if I asked it to haul that $#@!!

[HVACTech]

I'm surprised HVACTech didn't tell you that there is no way you could be a blacksmith without going on, at length about thermal conductivity of metals.

I too, enjoy a good whiff of bituminous smoke as well.

not bad AF! you are doing better! yes!
"conduction" is in fact one of the four methods of heat transfer.

btw, I am thinking about $#@!ing with christiananarchist about cavitation...
have you figured out yet... if an airplane sucks or blows it way through the sky? do you know what causes "lift"?

did you ever answer my query about the difference between anarchy and Liberty?
or did you cavitate again?

[luctor-et-emergo]

Why did you raise it off the ground that much ?

[HVACTech]

Why did you raise it off the ground that much ?

to protect the concrete of course.
silly.

keep it up.. and you will get me going about pizza ovens friend.