What Ashli Babbit was doing the moment she got shot

[phill4paul]

“…Of all of the lines from Byrd, this one stands out: “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.” So, Byrd admitted he did not see a weapon or an immediate threat from Babbitt beyond her trying to enter through the window…”


https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/0...nbc-interview/

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

[phill4paul]

There was a greater rules of engagement in Afghanistan for the Taliban than there were for Ashli Babbitt.

The rules of engagement place the burden on U.S. air and ground troops to confirm with certainty that a Taliban fighter is armed before they can fire — even if they are 100 percent sure the target is the enemy.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...tions-in-afgh/

[RJB]

Alright. I see you guys just need to blow off steam. I will let you all get back to the fight with no further interruptions

[TheTexan]

“…Of all of the lines from Byrd, this one stands out: “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.” So, Byrd admitted he did not see a weapon or an immediate threat from Babbitt beyond her trying to enter through the window…”


https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/0...nbc-interview/

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

Exactly. The only thing he was protecting was the sanctity of the church.

[Snowball]

I have an idea. Let's arm the capitol police with medieval man-catchers.

Babbitt would have been better off with her neck in one of these:


I suppose these would be considered overkill:


The man-catcher could have saved George Floyd's life, and made Chaivin's job a lot easier, too.

[Occam's Banana]

I'm not able to watch the video posted because I don't have a youtube account, so I can't sign in to confirm my age. [...] (If so, if anyone has a link to identical video please post - rumble maybe?)

You can use YouTube NSFW for this.

Just take the YouTube URL and add "nsfw" right after "youtube" and before ".com".

For example, the URL of the age-restricted video in the OP is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWMpTHLJXbw.

So you can just change it to http://www.youtubensfw.com/watch?v=AWMpTHLJXbw to watch the video without a YouTube account.

(There is a "CLICK HERE if Video does not play" link under the video player on the page the "nsfw" link takes you to. You might need to use that, too, depending on your browser setup.)

[Philhelm]

Ron Paul may not have seen this video. Either way I respectfully disagree with his assessment. As he pointed out in a recent video, at one point the police were pretty much "inviting people in." But the protestors got to a point where they were no longer being invited to go further. Some turned around and went back. Some pressed on. Some got to a makeshift barricade and said "Break it down." Somebody broke the window in that makeshift barricade. Ashli Babbitt tried to climb through it. We talk a lot in this movement about individualism and individual responsibility. I don't think Ashli Babbitt should have been shot. But she should have been arrested for climbing through the broken window. Whoever broke the window should have been arrested. The protestors who walked through, invited by the cops, and then turned around and left when they realized they weren't being invited any further should not be arrested or charged at all.

Rules of Engagement. The officer can't (well, shouldn't) just execute people. Execution is a far sight from arrest.

[jmdrake]

Rules of Engagement. The officer can't (well, shouldn't) just execute people. Execution is a far sight from arrest.

That's true. He shouldn't. But he should be able to use the appropriate amount of force to save lives. It was NOT and execution. Ashli Babbitt wasn't just sitting there peeking through a window. She was climbing through a barricade that her fellow compatriots were trying to smash through. As @Snowball rightly pointed out, the crowd posed a potential real risk to whoever was on the other side of the barricade. I think pepper spray or simply a well placed front kick to her chest "This Is Sparta" style would have done the trick though. But it's not honest to call it an execution.

[jmdrake]

Ok so you don't think the shooting was justified.... but he shouldn't be tried for murder?

That is correct. Not every unjustified shooting results in a murder charge. Sometimes they result in civil penalties.

....

$#@!ing inconsistent as $#@! dude wow.

Just admit that you think the shooting was justified. (or "justifiable")

Remember when you were arguing with @Snowball? He made a valid point THAT YOU COULD NOT TRULY REBUT! His point was the crowd posed a danger in total, not just Ashli Babbitt herself. Your "rebuttal" was that congress had all been evacuated. But the fact that Massie and his staff were there proves that isn't true. More importantly, you have no idea whether Byrd knew the evacuation was complete. So, by your own admission, the shooting was "justifiable" if by that you mean there was some reason for that. However, I prefer the position of @Valli6. Since there wasn't an immediate threat of death from Ashli Babbitt he shouldn't have shot her IMO.

That said, this wasn't an "execution." He wasn't acting like a "coward." The other cops, that you refuse to call out, who left their posts were the real cowards. He did his job. Not in the way I would have wanted him to do it. He should be fired, but not tried. Those people with Ashli Babbitt who were trying to break through the barricade are in part guilty of her death. I get it. You think the "insurrection" (or whatever that clown show was called) was justified. Ashli Babbitt is your Crispus Attucks. Crispus Attucks is a personal hero of mine. But I understand why John Adams defended the British redcoats that shot him and the others at the Boston Massacre. They weren't "peaceful protestors." I thank @Anti Federalist for first posting this picture of Attucks.

If you don't think he should even be in a court room then its pretty $#@!ing clear you think the shooting was justified but what I don't understand is why you won't just come out and say that.

I think he should be fired. That itself is a consequence. Why don't you understand that?

[TheTexan]

That is correct. Not every unjustified shooting results in a murder charge. Sometimes they result in civil penalties.



Remember when you were arguing with @Snowball? He made a valid point THAT YOU COULD NOT TRULY REBUT! His point was the crowd posed a danger in total, not just Ashli Babbitt herself. Your "rebuttal" was that congress had all been evacuated. But the fact that Massie and his staff were there proves that isn't true. More importantly, you have no idea whether Byrd knew the evacuation was complete. So, by your own admission, the shooting was "justifiable" if by that you mean there was some reason for that. However, I prefer the position of @Valli6. Since there wasn't an immediate threat of death from Ashli Babbitt he shouldn't have shot her IMO.

That said, this wasn't an "execution." He wasn't acting like a "coward." The other cops, that you refuse to call out, who left their posts were the real cowards. He did his job. Not in the way I would have wanted him to do it. He should be fired, but not tried. Those people with Ashli Babbitt who were trying to break through the barricade are in part guilty of her death. I get it. You think the "insurrection" (or whatever that clown show was called) was justified. Ashli Babbitt is your Crispus Attucks. Crispus Attucks is a personal hero of mine. But I understand why John Adams defended the British redcoats that shot him and the others at the Boston Massacre. They weren't "peaceful protestors." I thank @Anti Federalist for first posting this picture of Attucks.





I think he should be fired. That itself is a consequence. Why don't you understand that?

The fact that the staff was evacuated is more of an observation than a core part of my argument. It doesn't change anything.

With that said, the staff was very clearly evacuated and even the mainstream media agrees with me if you read through the bs. You've been wrong repeatedly, and provably, and this is just another thing you are wrong on.

And I don't care if Massie evacuated or not because I know for a fact that the others did.

Either way, the shooting was not justified, Byrd is a $#@!ing coward, and he should be in court presently facing at minimum a 5+ year prison term. Being generous.

[TheTexan]

You and I just have very different opinions on shooting unarmed white women

[jmdrake]

The fact that the staff was evacuated is more of an observation than a core part of my argument. It doesn't change anything.

With that said, the staff was very clearly evacuated and even the mainstream media agrees with me if you read through the bs. You've been wrong repeatedly, and provably, and this is just another thing you are wrong on.

I'm not sure when you are serious or trolling but you can't point to one thing I've been wrong on regarding Ashli Babbitt except I didn't realize her actions were as bad as your video shows they were. I didn't realize she was halfway through the barricade. You said she was just "peeking." And a half truth is a lie, so no I do not accept your "I didn't say she wasn't climbing through the window" excuse. Massie and his staff weren't evacuated. That is an inconvenient fact that destroys your whole argument. Even if Massie himself was the only person not evacuated, that was reason enough for Byrd, and the three cowards you refuse to call out to man their posts and take every reasonable means at their disposal to keep the violent mob (they threatened the cowards and that's why they left their posts) from breaking through. I would have preferred a "Spartan Kick." This is what should have happened to Ashli Babbitt.



She would have had broken ribs. She might have died from it. But she would have had a much better chance of survival. But no. I'm not wrong. You've offered no evidence that I was wrong. You've told half truths. You've ignored what doesn't fit your narrative. You tried to pretend Ashli Babbitt was a "peaceful protestor." She wasn't. The crowd around her wasn't. And she was halfway through the barricade you kept talking about in the other thread. So...by your own words she was a threat. I still wouldn't have shot her. Byrd should be fired because he had a better option than shooting her. (Spartan kick). But tried for murder? Nope. You haven't made the case to anyone but yourself or to people too biased to have any sort of objectivity on the matter. Not only would you have to prove that everyone was evacuated, and the truth is Massie was not evacuated, but you have to prove that Byrd knew everyone was evacuated. And why were the other officers standing "shoulder to shoulder" in front of the barricade, that you admit was a barricade, if there was nothing to protect?

And I don't care if Massie evacuated or not because I know for a fact that the others did.

LOL. So......if Massie got killed that would be okay? And don't say "The crowd wouldn't have killed Massie." Mobs are stupid. And people on the right have made the claim that antifa was mixed in with the mob. So there's no way to know some antifa thug couldn't have snuck in with the crowd and gotten to Massie. Plus Massie himself was concerned which is why he was armed and barricaded himself. And you know for a fact that everybody else did? You have a list of all the people who were evacuated before Ashli Babbitt died? If so, please post it. I know you don't but I'm just humoring you.

Either way, the shooting was not justified, Byrd is a $#@!ing coward, and he should be in court presently facing at minimum a 5+ year prison term. Being generous.

You're entitled to your opinion. You're just not entitled to your own facts. Please provide your source that shows the names of everyone who was in the building prior to the incursion and the names of those who were evacuated prior to the shooting of Ashli Babbitt.

[jmdrake]

You and I just have very different opinions on shooting unarmed white women

I know you're trying to be funny, but your humor is weak and pretty stupid actually. I've posted more against police killing of white people than you have. It's just that in this case Ashli Babbitt was halfway through the barricade that you kept bringing up as significant in the other thread. I still wouldn't have shot her. I don't know how many times I have to say that before it sinks through. Spartan kick? Absolutely!

[TheTexan]

I'm not sure when you are serious or trolling but you can't point to one thing I've been wrong on regarding Ashli Babbitt except I didn't realize her actions were as bad as your video shows they were.

You were going on for like 6 pages of this thread saying that she was pushing through the guards and I was just making $#@! up when I said they were standing shoulder to shoulder and just moved aside. On the facts that were in dispute, the video proved you 100% wrong and me 100% right.

You said she was just "peeking." And a half truth is a lie, so no I do not accept your "I didn't say she wasn't climbing through the window" excuse.

Dude get a $#@!ing dictionary. If you shoot someone the moment their head peeks through, that means that the person shot the person's head the moment it became visible.

There is nothing about that usage of the word that is wrong and never once did I claim she was physically looking around like you are suggesting. Nor did I ever claim she was not in the process of climbing through the window.

We have enough god-damn immigrants in this country who can't speak fluent english and it's bad enough when people like you don't understand that a word can have more than one meaning. And then spend 6 pages of a thread braying like a dying donkey about one $#@!ing word.

Your whole $#@!ing argument sucks, is full of holes, inconsistent, and a $#@!ty waste of time in general.

[TheTexan]

I know you're trying to be funny, but your humor is weak and pretty stupid actually. I've posted more against police killing of white people than you have. It's just that in this case Ashli Babbitt was halfway through the barricade that you kept bringing up as significant in the other thread. I still wouldn't have shot her. I don't know how many times I have to say that before it sinks through. Spartan kick? Absolutely!

Kinda similar to the way you say stupid $#@! like "if Massie were to have shot un unarmed woman I bet people would have different opinion". (paraphrasing)

a) Massie wouldn't have shot an unarmed woman in same situation as Byrd
b) if he did [he wouldnt] I would call him out just the same.

As usual, your argument is based on $#@!in retarded fallacies that you pull out of your ass is in some desperate hope to justify your position that killing an unarmed woman is OK. Or more precisely, killing an unarmed woman is both "not ok" but "ok enough to not have to stand trial" ($#@!ing weak $#@! - stand by your choice, its either justified or not)

[jmdrake]

You were going on for like 6 pages of this thread saying that she was pushing through the guards and I was just making $#@! up when I said they were standing shoulder to shoulder and just moved aside. The video proved you 100% wrong and me 100% right.

No. You were not "100% right." The guards did not just "move aside." THE MOVED AFTER THEY WERE THREATENED WITH BODILY HARM! For some stupid reason you don't think that's important. The hell it isn't. Ashli Babbitt and the rest of the rioters with her were a violent mob that needed to be dealt with. She shouldn't have been shot. She should have been Spartan kicked. And once again, thanks for the video. It shows more than any other video the level of threat that Babbitt and the mob she was with actually posed.

Dude get a $#@!ing dictionary. If you shoot someone the moment their head peeks through, that means that the person shot the person's head the moment it became visible.

Quit being an a$$hole. This has nothing to do with the dictionary. Do you know what a half truth is? If you're peeking through a window with a sniper rifle, you are still peeking through a window. Leaving out the sniper rifle makes the claim "My client was peeking through a window...there was no reason to shoot him" dishonest. Ashli Babbitt wasn't shot for peeking through a window. She was shot for climbing through the barricade. She shouldn't have done that. But she shouldn't have been shot either. A Spartan kick would have been good enough.

[TheTexan]

You're entitled to your opinion. You're just not entitled to your own facts. Please provide your source that shows the names of everyone who was in the building prior to the incursion and the names of those who were evacuated prior to the shooting of Ashli Babbitt.

I saw it with my own eyes during the live coverage and the news I have read since then has confirmed it to be true.

I give exactly 0 $#@!s to whether your believe me. It doesn't matter if I proved it to you, it would not change your mind.

If you give more than 0 $#@!s, than do your own research into it.

[jmdrake]

Kinda similar to the way you say stupid $#@! like "if Massie were to have shot un unarmed woman I bet people would have different opinion". (paraphrasing)

If Massie had shot an unarmed woman climbing through his barricade? No need to paraphrase. I've been very specific about what happened.

a) Massie wouldn't have shot an unarmed woman in same situation as Byrd
b) if he did [he wouldnt] I would call him out just the same.

So....no paraphrase here. We both know that Massie had armed himself and barricaded himself in his office. If a violent mob outside his office started smashing through the barricade, threatened the officers on the other side of the barricade to the point that they abandoned their post in fear of imminent bodily harm, and then one member of that violent mob started climbing through a hole smashed in that barricade, wearing a backpack, and Massie shot him or her...you'd want him arrested and spend 5 years in prison? That's what you're saying? Put in all the facts or don't say anything at all.

[TheTexan]

No. You were not "100% right." The guards did not just "move aside." THE MOVED AFTER THEY WERE THREATENED WITH BODILY HARM! For some stupid reason you don't think that's important. The hell it isn't. Ashli Babbitt and the rest of the rioters with her were a violent mob that needed to be dealt with. She shouldn't have been shot. She should have been Spartan kicked. And once again, thanks for the video. It shows more than any other video the level of threat that Babbitt and the mob she was with actually posed.

I never said that didn't happen and I never said that wasn't important. The thing I said was that they stepped aside (factually true), and you said I was just straight up making $#@! up out of my ass. Even now you are digging through your own ass pulling out turds to try to recuse yourself from admitting you were wrong and I was right.

Quit being an a$$hole. This has nothing to do with the dictionary. Do you know what a half truth is? If you're peeking through a window with a sniper rifle, you are still peeking through a window. Leaving out the sniper rifle makes the claim "My client was peeking through a window...there was no reason to shoot him" dishonest. Ashli Babbitt wasn't shot for peeking through a window. She was shot for climbing through the barricade. She shouldn't have done that. But she shouldn't have been shot either. A Spartan kick would have been good enough.

Still braying like a dead donkey on a single god-damn word "peek". It was a legitimate use of the word, you read it in a way that it was not intended, which is fine, miscommunication happens. Just quit brayin' about it

[phill4paul]

“…Of all of the lines from Byrd, this one stands out: “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.” So, Byrd admitted he did not see a weapon or an immediate threat from Babbitt beyond her trying to enter through the window…”


https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2021/0...nbc-interview/

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

“I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

'nuff said. That's the equivalent of Biden telling you to shoot a shotgun through your front door.

[jmdrake]

I saw it with my own eyes during the live coverage and the news I have read since then has confirmed it to be true.

I give exactly 0 $#@!s to whether your believe me. It doesn't matter if I proved it to you, it would not change your mind.

If you give more than 0 $#@!s, than do your own research into it.

The research already provided proves that everyone wasn't evacuated. Massie and his staff were still there. But hell, to humor you here's some research.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/23/u...i-babbitt.html

The video timeline shows people still leaving the House Chamber at 2:40. Ashli Babbitt, according to this report, was killed at 2:44. That's just a 4 minute lapse. It's impossible that was in the House Chamber at 2:40 was completely out of the building by 2:44. Absolutely impossible. Now, where is your source that shows the chamber cleared prior to 2:40 or Ashli Babbitt killed after 2:44?

[jmdrake]

I never said that didn't happen and I never said that wasn't important. The thing I said was that they stepped aside (factually true), and you said I was just straight up making $#@! up out of my ass. Even now you are digging through your own ass pulling out turds to try to recuse yourself from admitting you were wrong and I was right.

And I said we were both wrong. And we were. I was wrong. You were wrong. I hadn't seen the video. You had. You left out important facts about what happened to make it sound like Ashli Babbitt was being invited to go in.

Still braying like a dead donkey on a single god-damn word "peek". It was a legitimate use of the word, you read it in a way that it was not intended, which is fine, miscommunication happens. Just quit brayin' about it

Still ignoring the fact that she climbed through the barricade that you put such an emphasis on in the previous thread. A half truth is still a lie.

[TheTexan]

So....no paraphrase here. We both know that Massie had armed himself and barricaded himself in his office. If a violent mob outside his office started smashing through the barricade, threatened the officers on the other side of the barricade to the point that they abandoned their post in fear of imminent bodily harm, and then one member of that violent mob started climbing through a hole smashed in that barricade, wearing a backpack, and Massie shot him or her...you'd want him arrested and spend 5 years in prison? That's what you're saying? Put in all the facts or don't say anything at all.

There are some dfiferences. First, Byrd was not alone. There were many others who would be able to assist. Second, Byrd had room to retreat if needed. Third, Byrd very likely had an egress route to the basement. Fourth, I would hardly classify the specific group of people outside Byrd's barricade as being "violent". At worst, they were on the verge of being violent.

But, even if we ignore those differences, and just assume that Massie is locked in an office with an arguably violent mob outside, and an unarmed woman jumps through the window of his door, and he shoots her, then yes - he should stand trial for that.

If another unarmed woman jumps through the window? Maybe at that point they no longer have the resources to restrain them and at that point it becomes a threat. But the first person through (Babbitt) certainly is not the threshold where that occurs.

[TheTexan]

And I said we were both wrong. And we were. I was wrong. You were wrong. I hadn't seen the video. You had. You left out important facts about what happened to make it sound like Ashli Babbitt was being invited to go in.

You pretty much called me a liar for saying they stepped aside.

Which they did.

[jmdrake]

'nuff said. That's the equivalent of Biden telling you to shoot a shotgun through your front door.

So if you've barricaded yourself in your house, someone has smashed open your window, you show that person your gun, they climb through it anyway....you're going to wait until you can see him or her pull the weapon out of the backpack. And there is a violent mob behind him or her. Got it. I will say this. Byrd did a horrible job defending himself. That's why most lawyers tell their clients to just shut the F up. But no. This isn't the same as just "shooting through your front door." Ashli Babbitt was halfway through when she was shot. Still, she shouldn't have been shot. A Spartan Kick would have done just fine.

[jmdrake]

You pretty much called me a liar for saying they stepped aside.

Which they did.

My apologies. I hadn't seen that video. The video that I had seen showed something different. Now, would you care to address the violent threats made by these "peaceful protestors?"

[TheTexan]

The research already provided proves that everyone wasn't evacuated. Massie and his staff were still there. But hell, to humor you here's some research.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/23/u...i-babbitt.html

The video timeline shows people still leaving the House Chamber at 2:40. Ashli Babbitt, according to this report, was killed at 2:44. That's just a 4 minute lapse. It's impossible that was in the House Chamber at 2:40 was completely out of the building by 2:44. Absolutely impossible. Now, where is your source that shows the chamber cleared prior to 2:40 or Ashli Babbitt killed after 2:44?

I've already said that 1 person (Himes) chose to stick around longer than others. But his egress route was never in question and he did evacuate once it started getting too close for comfort.

I've also already said, that anyone who didn't evacuate (e.g., Massie) would have done so entirely by choice. Massie is not the type of congress critter that would be scared by a little interaction with the average MAGA crowd.

As for sources, find your own... 0 $#@!s and all that, remember.

[Snowball]

Still, she shouldn't have been shot. A Spartan Kick would have done just fine.

No, she deserved the bullet. They crossed the Rubicon. Watch again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...video-capitol/

[TheTexan]

My apologies. I hadn't seen that video. The video that I had seen showed something different. Now, would you care to address the violent threats made by these "peaceful protestors?"

As far as violent threats go, it was pretty polite. "Guys, we've seen others get hurt, probably best if you step aside".

We don't even know if that's a true statement "we've seen others get hurt".

With that said, yes, it's an implicit threat, so while I wouldn't go as far as to call the mob "violent" I would definitely say they are "dangerous".

And yes, the officers that stepped aside, are most likely cowards. Though it's also possible they were ordered to step aside through their ear pieces. They did seem to act in a fair amount of unison.

It's entirely possible they stepped aside, because there was no longer anything beyond that barricaded that needed to be protected.

[jmdrake]

There are some dfiferences. First, Byrd was not alone. There were many others who would be able to assist. Second, Byrd had room to retreat if needed. Third, Byrd very likely had an egress route to the basement. Fourth, I would hardly classify the specific group of people outside Byrd's barricade as being "violent". At worst, they were on the verge of being violent.

Massie wasn't alone either. He was with his staff. That said there's no telling how much help they would have been. From the video I can't tell how many people were with Byrd. But, and you keep ignoring this, I think a Spartan kick would have been enough. As for the violence of the specific group, they said they were violent. They told the police that other people had already gotten hurt and they didn't want them (the police) to get hurt. Two of the members of the violent mob were smashing the barricade, one with a helmet and the other with a wooden dowel about an inch in diameter. Remember the skateboard wielding thug that Kyle Rittenhouse shot? A one inch wooden dowel is at least as deadly as a skateboard.

But, even if we ignore those differences, and just assume that Massie is locked in an office with an arguably violent mob outside, and an unarmed woman jumps through the window of his door, and he shoots her, then yes - he should stand trial for that.

If another unarmed woman jumps through the window? Maybe at that point they no longer have the resources to restrain them and at that point it becomes a threat. But the first person through (Babbitt) certainly is not the threshold where that occurs.

With a backpack? And Ashli Babbitt was the only woman I saw in the crowd. The next person through was most likely the man with the wooden dowel. And Byrd was the only person at the door at that time. I saw one maybe two other people further down the hall. From the best information that's been posted in this thread at this point the evacuation, which was still ongoing at 2:40, was not finished when Ashli Babbitt was killed at 2:44. So the other people that could have helped contain the breach were likely occupied. That's why those three cowards who "stood aside" shouldn't have left their post. They plus Byrd could have held the crowd back. Byrd could not have afforded to let Ashli Babbitt get through the window and then "deal with her", hoping that the next person to jump through the window wasn't the wooden dowel wielding thug who could have clocked Byrd in the back of the head while she was handcuffing Babbitt. That's why I keep saying (and you keep ignoring) SPARTAN KICK. That would have kept Babbitt on the other side of the barricade. He could have kept Spartan Kicking everyone who tried to come through. But I can't thing of anything else that would have worked. Even pepper spray might not have been enough because she could have kept her forward momentum going despite the pain and blindness. Taser? Maybe. But those have at most two shots.