How much are you "paid" to "see" it "that" way?Originally Posted by Jan2017
Last edited by Raginfridus; 01-10-2018 at 06:40 PM.
Probably was never really a bigger ticket issue for him in the first place. Trump gets a lot of sympathy from people who feel like he gets unfairly criticized for holding views that they hold, even if they weren't views that Trump ran a campaign on. Part of it was what made him popular in the first place, people liked that Trump would say anything to get elected, they saw that as a trait of his character and to them it was endearing.
He refuses to call it amnesty. But for all intents and purposes, that's what it is. He is against deporting them. And he's against pretty much any kind of effective enforcement of any immigration laws. He's against a wall. He's against requiring employers to report whom they employ to the government. He's even against requiring people to show passports to enter the country.
So right, yeah, they don't get to be citizens. I think that's great, honestly. If only we could eliminate the citizen (i.e. subject) status of everyone else too.
As for the OP though, what exactly were the contradictions?
But is it 120 ft tall?
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Extending daca. He also lamented congress weren't getting along, like they did in the good old days, and earmarks could bring back the bipartisan dinner parties.
How did I guess.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
How is that a contradiction?
He said he favored a clean DACA bill and then a few minutes later said any DACA bill would have to include his wall for one. He said he would sign anything that Congress sent to him and later said he would not sign anything which left out his wall.
How is that contradictory? Couldn't clean just mean starting from scratch?
He used the word "anything?" Do you have a quote?He said he would sign anything that Congress sent to him and later said he would not sign anything which left out his wall.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
"Clean" means that DACA would be the only subject of the bill- nothing else added.
Source? Quote? Link?
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
This whole meeting was a ruse. Once again, the 9th circuit just put their foot in their mouth and will ultimately be knocked down. They'll need 60 votes in the Senate so any bill that would get enough dems' support would be a non-starter from the base's perspective. The dems are legitimizing Trump by having to deal w/ him on this and risk alienating their base in the process. If they don't deal, Trump can claim credit for wanting to save daca and blame the dems for its demise. Either way, the trap has been sprung and Trump comes out the winner for 2018.
It's the opposite. The Dems and their base support DACA. They'll have no problem voting for it.
Most Republicans probably support it too. But it's the GOP base that will be up in arms about it.
My guess is that they'll eventually just pass a bill codifying DACA either without including the wall in it, or else including some symbolic gesture of a little bit of wall somewhere.
They'll pass a permanent DACA, with more border cops as comprehensive reform later. Basically, nobody's getting a wall, and whatever comes of the private land the Feds have been buying will be determined in court.
Last edited by Raginfridus; 01-11-2018 at 02:44 PM.
It isn't Zippy's fault you're easily proven wrong.
How many sock puppet accounts does Zippy have?
I thought everybody was zippyHow many sock puppet accounts does Zippy have?
Sorry, Bryan4Serfdom, Ron clearly talks about the humanitarian angle of deportation. He even frames it as a violation of the Christian principle of the Good Samaritan and says it is completely incompatible with human rights.
The real issue is that most of you Progressives who want to use government violence to force your will on millions of people and violate the US Constitution as well as human liberty simply can't allow yourselves to understand Dr. Paul if you want to maintain your Progressive political positions.Even with a healthy economy and stricter border controls, the issue of what to do with twelve-million-plus illegals already here would persist. One side says use the U.S. Army, round them up, and ship them home. The other side says give them amnesty, make them full-fledged citizens, and reward the lawbreakers, thus insulting and unfairly penalizing those who have patiently waited and obeyed our immigration laws. The first choice--sending twelve to fifteen million illegals home--isn't going to happen and should not happen. Neither the determination or the ability to accomplish it exists. Besides, if each case is looked at separately, we would find ourselves splitting up families and deporting some who have lived here for decades, if not their entire life, and who never lived for any length of time in Mexico. This would hardly be a Good Samaritan approach to the problem. It would be incompatible with human rights.
Source: Liberty Defined, by Rep. Ron Paul, p.153-154
Dr. Paul is wrong on this issue and in his understanding of the good Samaritan story, the story is told in response to the question "who is my neighbor" which was asked in reference the command to love thy neighbor as thyself, it ends with the point that the Samaritan was a neighbor to the wounded man because he helped him while the fellow Jews were not neighbors to him, it is those who help us who are to be loved as ourselves, illegal aliens commit a crime just by being here and they commit many more crimes while they are here, they are not a neighbor unto us.
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A Zero Hedge comment
Exactly wrong . . .
US Senate definition is that "everything is compiled and reintroduced" as a single "clean bill"
so that not every single amendment has to be considered individually.
https://www.senate.gov/reference/glo...clean_bill.htm
It is much more likely everyone in the bipartisan meeting understood that as about one vote on one bill for the whole immigration package -
CNN's jaded perspective/definition is meant to get some to salivate over.
As long as enough folks are wearing blinders this yellow journalism could prevail more,
especially if people continually fear calling them out when they do this chit-style reporting.
The conversation from the meeting: https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/...lean-daca-bill
A bill just on DACA with a promise to do other things later in a separate bill.“What about a clean DACA bill now, with a commitment that we go into a comprehensive reform procedure?” California Sen. Dianne Feinstein asked the president. A “clean DACA bill” would protect Dreamers’ ability to stay in the country, without Republican-supported provisions such as increased border enforcement or money for Trump’s wall.
“Would you be agreeable to that?” the veteran Democratic senator pressed.
Trump replied, “Yeah, I would like — I would like to do that.”
The White House transcript removed Trump saying he would agree with that.
It also, apparently, alarmed the White House, which released a transcript of the meeting — sans Trump's comment, as the Washington Post noted.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 01-11-2018 at 05:05 PM.
Protections for dreamers would be together in the same "clean bill" that could feature border security including
immigration policy enforcement and constructing extensions of the border wall already in existence.
Trump, in vulgar terms, rejects bipartisan immigration proposal at White House meeting
Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin and Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham met with Trump to discuss
a compromise plan from a bipartisan "Gang of Six" senators, but were rebuffed and told to keep working,
Durbin said told reporters.
White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said Thursday afternoon: "There has not been a deal reached yet."
CNN: A “clean DACA bill” would protect Dreamers’ ability to stay in the country, without Republican-supported provisions . . . is NOT true.
This is CNN blinding you - CNN has tricked ya' . . . they distorted what a clean bill is really about - compromise with one vote on one bill, not piece meal/line-item amendments so voting on one thing and not another.
Promises, promises . . . a clean bill is NOT a bill just on DACA . . . they seem to have been talking about compromise at the OP time,
(and for months) to include (save) DACA which ends in March.
Last edited by Jan2017; 01-11-2018 at 05:00 PM.
Did CNN trick me or was Trump tricked? I saw a short video, its probably the only part I saw was where they asked Trump if he would support a clean daca bill without republican reforms and he said yes. I mean correct me if this is some sort of Mandela affect and you have a Tube of the conversation being different?
But compromise is not needed, because Trump, most congressional Republicans, and all congressional Democrats want to save DACA.
That depends on what the definition of the word compromise is?
If they promulgate that a clean bill is not a bill that consolidates amendments/provisions for a one vote packaged bill they are misrepresenting the Senate's definition.
Why do that ? To salivate over their headline using "appears to contradict" rather than negotiate or compromise, just to drive a wedge into the issue.
So what you are saying is Trump understands the senate rules better then the MSM? I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse, but its kind of like when Trump put Iran on notice and everyone said that wasn't even interventionism.
"Appear to contradict" was needed for a CNN headline to distort what a clean bill is. Compromise/negotiation is what the meeting really was about.
CNN fail.
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