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Thread: 7 Issues Where Donald Trump is MORE Libertarian than Gary Johnson

  1. #1

    7 Issues Where Donald Trump is MORE Libertarian than Gary Johnson

    http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/do...arian-johnson/
    There doesn’t seem to be a lot of middle ground with Donald Trump. You either love him or you hate him. For every Republican Twitter account with “Make America Great Again” in the bio, there is a “#NeverTrump” lurking right behind it. Those who oppose Trump usually claim the libertarian mantle, and most of them have jumped on board the Gary Johnson train.

    What if liberty-loving Republicans and Libertarians are wrong? Is it possible that Donald Trump is actually MORE Libertarian than Gary Johnson?

    Here are seven reasons why this might be true:

    Every Cake You Bake.

    Gary Johnson believes that the government should compel private businesses, with deadly force, to do something they disagree with. Austin Peterson hammered this point in the Libertarian debate with John Stossel earlier this year, and the governor admitted that he would force a Jewish baker to bake a Nazi-themed cake. I wonder if the governor would compel a Muslim baker to make a cake with the image of Muhammed? Can a Civil War historian compel Walmart to make a Confederate Flag themed cake now despite their new policy banning it?

    Donald Trump says he’s for “religious freedom.” That puts him more firmly in line with the 1st Amendment, and isn’t that a more Libertarian position than compelling by force?

    Syrian Refugees.

    Gary Johnson believes we should take “our fair share” of Syrian refugees. When the American government takes on refugees, it takes responsibility for their health and well-being. It offers benefits. It offers free transportation, shelters, guidance, food, medicine, and almost anything else that the taxpayer can think of. Wouldn’t the Libertarian position oppose taxpayer-funded intervention of this scale in favor of charitable assistance? What constitutes our “fair share” is also unclear in the governor’s answer. We know it’s somewhere between 1 and 65,000 according to his own words.

    Donald Trump doesn’t want Syrian refugees harbored in the United States. He cites concerns over terrorism and ties to the broader issue of border security, but is this not within the purview of the Executive Branch? If Donald Trump supports a religious litmus test for refugees, this is clearly not a Libertarian-backed idea. However his call for Middle Eastern neighbors of Syria to do more for the refugees flowing across their own borders would seem to be more Libertarian for Americans as it doesn’t involve greater involvement and mandatory expenditures from our government.

    More at link ...
    ....

    When the Libertarian nominee claims that he agrees with the self-professed Socialist candidate 73% of the time, it should give any Libertarian a reason to step back and take a wider view.
    .....
    * See my visitor message area for caveats related to my posting history here.
    * Also, I have effectively retired from all social media including posting here and are basically opting out of anything to do with national politics or this country on federal or state level and rather focusing locally. I may stop by from time to time to discuss philosophy on a general level related to Libertarian schools of thought and application in the real world.



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  3. #2


    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  4. #3
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    op, that site totally blows... one of those clickbait bulls.hit sites.

  5. #4
    Why am I not surprised that such an inane article came off of Austin Petersen's blog? Petersen, nor his paid cronies, have no right judging anyone else for being libertarian or not. Petersen is a hard statist himself. Of course he would be shilling for another one.

    And some of these objections are just downright dumb. Gary Johnson doesn't talk much about teh UN, therefore he must support it. Gary Johnson supports vaccinations. Donald Trump is more libertarian because he wants to equally control when you get vaccinations and wants to make you get less over a longer time. What kind of logic is that?

    The whole article is just silly. I'm no fan of Johnson, but trying as hard as you can to try and make Trump, a hardcore statist authoritarian into a libertarian is not only a joke, it is downright Orwellian.

  6. #5
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Why am I not surprised that such an inane article came off of Austin Petersen's blog? Petersen, nor his paid cronies, have no right judging anyone else for being libertarian or not. Petersen is a hard statist himself. Of course he would be shilling for another one.

    And some of these objections are just downright dumb. Gary Johnson doesn't talk much about teh UN, therefore he must support it. Gary Johnson supports vaccinations. Donald Trump is more libertarian because he wants to equally control when you get vaccinations and wants to make you get less over a longer time. What kind of logic is that?

    The whole article is just silly. I'm no fan of Johnson, but trying as hard as you can to try and make Trump, a hardcore statist authoritarian into a libertarian is not only a joke, it is downright Orwellian.
    i found the first comparison to not really be a good comparison and then going to the site having to click next on each thing with all that bulls.hit ads and $#@! coming up i just said f it... it like another breitbart site

  7. #6
    Truly pathetic, people grasping at straws to rationalize their support for Trumpenfuhrer.

  8. #7
    In before the **********s come in to accuse everyone not down with the article as Hillary supporters.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    In before the **********s come in to accuse everyone not down with the article as Hillary supporters.

    What are you, a frickin' Hilary supporter?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Why am I not surprised that such an inane article came off of Austin Petersen's blog? Petersen, nor his paid cronies, have no right judging anyone else for being libertarian or not. Petersen is a hard statist himself. Of course he would be shilling for another one.

    And some of these objections are just downright dumb. Gary Johnson doesn't talk much about teh UN, therefore he must support it. Gary Johnson supports vaccinations. Donald Trump is more libertarian because he wants to equally control when you get vaccinations and wants to make you get less over a longer time. What kind of logic is that?

    The whole article is just silly. I'm no fan of Johnson, but trying as hard as you can to try and make Trump, a hardcore statist authoritarian into a libertarian is not only a joke, it is downright Orwellian.
    The religious freedom is also a joke.

    What Trump wants to do to American Muslims is completely anti-1st Amendment,
    There is no spoon.

  12. #10
    Bump
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    The religious freedom is also a joke.

    What Trump wants to do to American Muslims is completely anti-1st Amendment,
    Um, no, it's not. We are a representative republic, and a group does not just get to come in and tell law enforcement or whatever what *their law* requires. Forced marriage, honor killings, and female genital mutilation are unconstitutional.

    So there.

    And whatever other drivel you have to share, just remember that US law does not allow them to do that to each other, and I won't even mention driving box trucks into bike paths or shooting homosexuals in night clubs.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Bump
    Yep, Johnson is a fraud.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Um, no, it's not. We are a representative republic, and a group does not just get to come in and tell law enforcement or whatever what *their law* requires. Forced marriage, honor killings, and female genital mutilation are unconstitutional.

    So there.

    And whatever other drivel you have to share, just remember that US law does not allow them to do that to each other, and I won't even mention driving box trucks into bike paths or shooting homosexuals in night clubs.
    That's utter bull$#@!.

    Anyone in a country must obey the law- period. We have 3 million muslims in the US today & what percentage of them are breaking it? About 5-7% according to Pew. A bit higher than Christians 39%.

    And BTW- that's the same thing Americans used to say about the dirty Irish Catholics.
    There is no spoon.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    That's utter bull$#@!.

    Anyone in a country must obey the law- period. We have 3 million muslims in the US today & what percentage of them are breaking it? About 5-7% according to Pew. A bit higher than Christians 39%.

    And BTW- that's the same thing Americans used to say about the dirty Irish Catholics.
    You are full of crap. Sharia law requires genital mutilation of females. Look it up.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    The religious freedom is also a joke.

    What Trump wants to do to American Muslims is completely anti-1st Amendment,
    What does Trump want to do to American Muslims?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What does Trump want to do to American Muslims?
    He campaigned on the claim of making American Muslims be registered.

    https://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...s-to-register/
    There is no spoon.



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  20. #17
    Can you cite the Executive Order or the legislation he wants passed?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    He campaigned on the claim of making American Muslims be registered.

    https://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...s-to-register/
    That is completely insane and totally preposterous.


    “President-elect Trump has never advocated for any registry or system that tracks individuals based on their religion, and to imply otherwise is completely false," Jason Miller, Communications Director of the Presidential Transition Team, wrote in a statement. "The national registry of foreign visitors from countries with high terrorism activity that was in place during the Bush and Obama Administrations gave intelligence and law enforcement communities additional tools to keep our country safe the President-elect will release his own vetting policies after he is sworn in."In an interview with NBC News last November, Trump was asked: "is there going to be a database that tracks the Muslims here in this country?"

    The remarks were made after a rally, and there was speculation by some on social media afterwards that Trump did not hear the entirety of the question, because he refers to the border in his answer.


    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump...ry?id=43639946
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Can you cite the Executive Order or the legislation he wants passed?
    No, he can't, because it never has and never did exist except in the minds of people with Trump derangement syndrome who all thought he was "literally Hitler"
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That is completely insane and totally preposterous.
    It was also creative editing after the fact. His post originally said, "He wants...." not "He campaigned on..."
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  24. #21
    And Gary Johnson was never a libertarian. He is an authoritarian libertine and an opportunist who hoped to use government to enrich himself through cannabis regulation.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    You are full of crap. Sharia law requires genital mutilation of females. Look it up.
    There is NO Sharia law here. And Christian law requires genital mutilation of men. Look it up.
    There is no spoon.

  26. #23
    Here, apparently is the full explanation of Trump's vague position.

    Does Donald Trump want a registry for all Muslims? Or just some Muslims? Or no database at all?

    The Republican presidential candidate’s comments on the topic have drawn a lot of criticism, with some pundits and commentators comparing it with the registration of Jews in in Nazi Germany. But Trump has said he didn’t propose such an idea -- a reporter did, and Trump just didn’t understand the question.

    His comments and the media coverage of them have left us confused, so we did a deep dive into what exactly Trump said about registering Muslim people in a database.

    After going through all of his comments from this past weekend, it seems that Trump definitely wants a database of Syrian refugees, and he hasn’t ruled out the possibility of a database for all Muslims -- though he isn’t actively calling for the latter. And we’ll warn you now that many of Trump’s comments strike us as contradictory or confusing.

    Thursday, Nov. 19

    It all started on Thursday, Nov. 19, when a Yahoo News reporter asked Trump about his position on increased surveillance of American Muslims.

    "France declared this state of emergency where they closed the borders and they established some degree of warrantless searches. I know how you feel about the borders, but do you think there is some kind of state of emergency here, and do we need warrantless searches of Muslims?" the reporter asked.

    "We’re going to have to do certain things that were frankly unthinkable a year ago," Trump said.

    The Yahoo reporter then asked Trump, "Do you think we might need to register Muslims in some type of database, or note their religion on their ID?"

    Trump responded, "We’re going to have to look at a lot of things very closely. We’re going to have to look at the mosques. We’re going to have to look very, very carefully."

    Here, Trump didn’t reject the idea of a Muslim registry, but he also didn’t give an affirmative "yes" that he wanted to create such a database.

    It escalated the next day.

    Friday, Nov. 20

    The next day, an MSNBC reporter asked Trump, "Should there be a database or system that tracks Muslims in this country?"

    "There should be a lot of systems," Trump responded. "Beyond databases. I mean, we should have a lot of systems."

    Trump then digressed to talk about a wall along the southern border, before the reporter interjected, "But that’s something your White House would like to implement."

    "I would certainly implement that. Absolutely," Trump said.

    Here, we’re not clear if Trump is talking about implementing a wall or implementing a database.

    But a few seconds later, when asked how he would register people into a database, Trump said, "It would just be good management."

    Finally, the reporter asked if Muslims would legally have to be part of the database.

    "They have to be — they have to be," Trump said. "Let me just tell you: The key is people can come to the country, but they have to come legally."

    While many headlines came out after this exchange saying Trump would "absolutely" require Muslims to register in a database, it’s not entirely clear that’s what he said. Trump was talking about building a wall along the border when the reporter asked if he would implement an unspecified policy -- "that" -- as president.

    Through the end of the conversation, it’s possible Trump thought the exchange was about illegal immigration.

    The same day, an NBC reporter also repeatedly asked Trump what the difference is between a registry for Muslims and the registry for Jews under Nazi Germany, to which Trump only replied, "You tell me."

    Later that day, Trump wrote on Twitter, "I didn't suggest a database -- a reporter did. We must defeat Islamic terrorism & have surveillance, including a watch list, to protect America."

    While that is accurate, Trump also did not dismiss the idea of a database.

    After Trump’s tweet, Fox News asked him about his position on a Muslim registry.

    "Let's hear it directly from you," said host Kimberly Guilfoyle. "Would President Donald Trump support a full Muslim database?"

    "Basically the suggestion was made and (it’s) certainly something we should start thinking about," Trump said, repeating that the reporter presented the idea. "But what I want is a watch list. I want surveillance programs. Obviously, there are a lot of problems. … But, certainly, I would want to have a database for the refugees, for the Syrian refugees that are coming in because nobody knows where they're coming from."

    Guilfoyle followed up: "So to be clear, you are not saying anything with respect to a religious database. You are talking about the Syrian refugees in light of the national security development affecting this country as we speak here tonight."

    Trump said he didn’t hear the MSNBC reporter’s question clearly, "but even if I did, I mean, I want databases for the Syrian refugees that Obama is going to let in if they come in."

    Listening to this interview, we noticed that Trump still didn’t give a definitive "yes" or "no" answer on whether he would want an all-encompassing Muslim registry, though he said it’s "certainly something we should start thinking about." He also clearly said he wants a registry for Syrian refugees.

    Saturday, Nov. 21

    At a rally in Birmingham, Ala., Saturday night, Trump addressed the registry question in a somewhat rambling way but still did not deliver a straightforward answer.

    "So the database -- I said yeah, that’s alright fine," he said. "But they also said the wall, and I said the wall, and I was referring to the wall, but database is okay, and watch list is okay, and surveillance is okay. If you don’t mind, I want to be -- I want to surveil. I want surveillance of these people that are coming in -- the Trojan Horse -- I want to know who the hell they are. And the biggest story yesterday -- the biggest -- was ‘Trump wants database on Muslims.’ I said what’s all happening here?"

    He then explained that he couldn’t hear the MSNBC or NBC reporter’s questions well. "But I do want databases for those people coming in, but I also insist on a wall. And it was all fine, all of a sudden I end up with some story, and I’m saying, what are you talking about? So here’s the story -- just to say it clear -- I want surveillance of these people. I want surveillance if we have to, and I don’t care. Are you ready for this folks? Are you ready? They’re going to make it such a big deal … I want surveillance of certain mosques."

    While much of that passage is incoherent, it seems Trump is trying to say that he was previously talking about illegal immigration and a wall -- not a registry for Muslims. And he seems taken aback by stories that said he wanted such a database. But he does say "database is okay," which might indicate that he is on board with the idea. Then he specifies that he wants a registry for Syrian refugees.

    Sunday, Nov. 22

    On ABC News’ This Week, host George Stephanopoulos asked Trump, "You did stir up a controversy with those comments over the database. Let's try to clear that up. Are you unequivocally now ruling out a database on all Muslims?"

    "No, not at all," Trump responded. "I want a database for the refugees that -- if they come into the country. We have no idea who these people are. When the Syrian refugees are going to start pouring into this country, we don't know if they're ISIS, we don't know if it's a Trojan horse. And I definitely want a database and other checks and balances. We want to go with watchlists. We want to go with databases. And we have no choice."

    Trump’s exchange with Stephanopoulos seems to be the clearest explanation of his position. No, he would not rule out a database on all Muslims. But for now, he wants a database for refugees.
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...rican-muslims/
    There is no spoon.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    There is NO Sharia law here. And Christian law requires genital mutilation of men. Look it up.
    The alarming rise of female genital mutilation in America

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/11/healt...rnd/index.html
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  29. #25
    So where’s the EO or legislation? Can you find an article that is from the past siix months?

    Gary Johnson said he would make Christians bake cakes, some wars were useful, and that he thought the EPA was a worthwhile use of tax dollars.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Here, apparently is the full explanation of Trump's vague position.



    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...rican-muslims/
    Why don't you just read what I wrote instead of posting more horse $#@! to obfuscate the forum with?

    When Trump made the statement he mentioned the border wall in the same breath, meaning he was referring to immigrants.. not, say, a 5th generation Muslim. He has NEVER had ANY intention of registering every Muslim in the US. The one time that seemed to be insinuated, it was clear that he mis-heard the question and it was crystal clear from his answer he was talking about immigrants.

    Stop cementing your Trump derangement syndrome into your own head and trying to cram it into everyone else's. It is an unhealthy disease/obsession.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-14-2018 at 05:49 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  31. #27
    Yet @Ender wonders why I simply asked if he is a Muslim. Post after post defending all sorts of Muslim immigration and moral equivalence despite the facts to a point of twisting the facts.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    So where’s the EO or legislation? Can you find an article that is from the past siix months?
    Yesterday I made the statement in another thread, "Really who cares if we bring the troops home" and a couple posters called me out and piled on me for saying that, but really the statement was in response to another statement from zippy and a more clear statement that would have expressed what I said would have been "Really who cares as long as we bring the troops home"

    By taking my quote out of context, it sounded like I didn't care if we brought the troops home. But in context, I was saying that it doesn't matter what the excuse for bringing the troops home is, the important thing is that we bring them home.

    It wasn't until I posted the entire exchange for one of the posters who called me out that they finally understood why what I said, which sounded like something completely different, actually meant what I was telling him.

    Some people have too low of an IQ to realize that the same word phrase can have multiple different meanings in different contexts. Some people have too low of an IQ to understand that sometimes the same thing happens in the opposite direction, and someone might mis-hear a question and answer the question in a different context.

    People with Trump derangement syndrome tend to have low IQs because they believe all the bull$#@! headlines that take advantage of this misunderstanding that people have of the english language and communication.

    They have been convinced that Trump is literally Hitler and so they will believe anything the media tells them, even when it is completely and totally ridiculous nonsense.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-14-2018 at 06:01 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  33. #29
    loveshiscountry
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    You are full of crap. Sharia law requires genital mutilation of females. Look it up.
    It's not Sharia Law it's the government. Plenty of muslim majority countries that do not have genital mutilation. Plenty of Christian nations that do. It's about the government.


  34. #30
    The Koran requires it.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

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