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Thread: Biden Administration Considers Banning Gas Stoves over Health Concerns

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    When the government threatens to do something so incredibly stupid you know it'll never happen, turn the newspaper to page six and see from what they're trying to distract you.

    https://twitter.com/Tim_Nagle/status...87344966180864

    There's a pretty long list of stupid things that government did manage to do. I wish I were so confident that this was a distraction. You might be right, but I do not see why they would need a distraction to cover something that Biden won't be held accountable for anyway. Let's say that they found 10,000 classified documents in Biden's ice cream freezer. It wouldn't matter. So, I believe that the banning of gas stoves is intentional and purposeful.

    Although that's not to say it can't be both.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 01-13-2023 at 02:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    You might be right, but I do not see why they would need a distraction to cover something that Biden won't be held accountable for anyway.
    For the same reason nobody grouses about a seat belt ticket when the cop forgets to ask for their expired insurance card. Biden gives our gas stove a pass, we give Biden a pass.

    Yeah, he'll get away with it. But they don't like it when the public is up in arms. They remember how none of them could get away with anything while Watergate was being prosecuted. They tend to run distractions whether they think they'll be needed or not.

    The whole notion is so ridiculous. The energy needed to pressurize gas lines is negligible compared to the resistance in electric lines. And a great many electric plants burn gas. It's a tremendous waste. But then, that isn't the excuse for this clownery, it's saaaaaaaafety.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 01-13-2023 at 03:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    There's a pretty long list of stupid things that government did manage to do. I wish I were so confident that this was a distraction. You might be right, but I do not see why they would need a distraction to cover something that Biden won't be held accountable for anyway. Let's say that they found 10,000 classified documents in Biden's ice cream freezer. It wouldn't matter. So, I believe that the banning of gas stoves is intentional and purposeful.

    Although that's not to say it can't be both.
    Everything is a distraction from something else, so don't pay attention to anything.

    Just move along, now.

    HTH

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Everything is a distraction from something else, so don't pay attention to anything.

    Just move along, now.
    I think you just explained the deep secret behind this entire clown show.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I would not be surprised if today's gas IS toxic from all the fracking.
    lol here's someone who has no idea how fracking works...

    Jeezus, the people on this forum sometimes...

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You think fracking is done to yield natural gas?

    What, besides water, do you think is used in the fracking process?
    Fracking is used to produce NG.

    There are plenty of chemicals used in the fracking process. Where should we start?

    Drilling fluids include such chemicals as diesel, clay, and various anti-coagulants... nothing particularly toxic, especially when you consider that these materials are not left permanently down hole. These are not "fracking fluids". They are basically drilling lubricants, and they are almost entirely returned to surface once each section of the well is TD'd (total depth).

    Fracking fluids are mostly water and sand, with some chemicals that prevent bacterial contamination, etc. ALL of these chemicals are pumped downhole inside of multiple layers of steel casing and concrete until they reach the pay zone, which in most cases is at least a mile plus deep, vertically.

    The chances of contaminating water sources are exceedingly slim. One wouldn't believe the precautions that are taken to protect not just subsurface aquifers, but also ground water. It does on occasion happen that ground water can be contaminated, but those instances, while rare, are far less impactful than instances where subsurface aquifers are impacted. that almost NEVER happens. In fact I'm not aware of a single instance of a proven case of a subsurface aquifer being negatively impacted by drilling or fracking (and it is important to note that drilling and fracking are two very separate and distinct operations).

  9. #67
    US Govt: You live in a Free Society which is democratic of choices, opinions.
    Meanwhile...

    US Govt:US govt planning to ban diesel vehlics switch electric vehlics, plans on banning gas stoves over "Health Concerns"


    So much for the idea of a free society where you arent given options.

  10. #68
    https://twitter.com/LPNational/statu...91338314887168

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I would not be surprised if today's gas IS toxic from all the fracking.
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You think fracking is done to yield natural gas?

    What, besides water, do you think is used in the fracking process?
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    lol here's someone who has no idea how fracking works...

    Jeezus, the people on this forum sometimes...
    Here's a video of fracking a water well.



    The process is the same for a gas or oil well, except the pressures are much higher and the wells deeper.

    Which is why, unless you have damaged the first run of casing, there is no way you can contaminate ground water by fracking.

    Water wells at the deepest are less than 1000 feet.

    TD on an oil well is typically 20,000 feet or more.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Here's a video of fracking a water well.



    The process is the same for a gas or oil well, except the pressures are much higher and the wells deeper.

    Which is why, unless you have damaged the first run of casing, there is no way you can contaminate ground water by fracking.

    Water wells at the deepest are less than 1000 feet.

    TD on an oil well is typically 20,000 feet or more.
    My brother...

    Only one point of clarification - if the first run of casing is damaged, which would be the outermost casing string, there would be as many as 5 casing stings between that casing and the inner casing wherein the gas and/or oil would be flowing. So go ahead and blow out the first run of casing... you've got plenty of steel and concrete between the naked earth and the wellbore until you're endangering the surrounding environment.

    Gawd my dude, what people don't understand about how a well is drilled... it's amazing.

  13. #71
    The Washington Post guide to "gaslighting" (ha-ha) in four easy steps (from just one day to the next):

    1. Regulators aren't banning gas stoves:


    2. Regulators are thinking about banning gas stoves:


    3. Banning gas stoves would be a good thing, actually:


    4. Gas stove bans are just a culture war nothingburger:


    (h/t Oilfield Rando)

  14. #72



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  16. #73

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    My brother...

    Only one point of clarification - if the first run of casing is damaged, which would be the outermost casing string, there would be as many as 5 casing stings between that casing and the inner casing wherein the gas and/or oil would be flowing. So go ahead and blow out the first run of casing... you've got plenty of steel and concrete between the naked earth and the wellbore until you're endangering the surrounding environment.

    Gawd my dude, what people don't understand about how a well is drilled... it's amazing.
    Exactly right.

    On ultra deep offshore wells, the kind I was working on last in my career, there could be as many as ten runs all cemented together at the sea bed well head.

    I supported the Tiber Field well in Keathley Canyon, way back, supplying the Deepwater Horizon.

    We hauled miles of casing for that job, over 35000 feet in well depth in over 4000 feet of water.

    The Horizon blew up and sank less than year later.

    I think that well still holds the world record as the deepest ever and BP estimated oil reserves at 6 billion barrels from just that one find.

    Gawd my dude, what people don't understand about how a well is drilled... it's amazing.
    Sadly, it's human nature to be disconnected from and know almost nothing about the critical supplies and technologies that keep people alive.

    Celebrities and sportsball they can tell you everything you'd want to know, but where they get their heat or food or light...not a clue.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  18. #75

  19. #76

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    That, or probably even more likely, make the installation regulations so woefully expensive to follow that... guess who... will be the only people who can afford them.

  21. #78
    The sad fact of the matter is this:

    They will eventually ban your gas stove.

    It's only a matter of time.

    The Ameri$#@! people have already accepted the premise that government has the right to regulate and ban pretty much anything it wants.

    It's regulated cars down to the last nut and bolt, and is now going to ban them outright.

    It regulates every stick in your home, down to how much water you are allowed to use in your toilet.

    Your clothes, your doctor, your job, your money, your church, your marriage, your children, your death, your birth, from beginning to end, from top to bottom, government has stuck it's vile beak into everything you do, nothing is exempt.

    They'll get your stove if they want it.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The sad fact of the matter is this:

    They will eventually ban your gas stove.

    It's only a matter of time.

    The Ameri$#@! people have already accepted the premise that government has the right to regulate and ban pretty much anything it wants.

    It's regulated cars down to the last nut and bolt, and is now going to ban them outright.

    It regulates every stick in your home, down to how much water you are allowed to use in your toilet.

    Your clothes, your doctor, your job, your money, your church, your marriage, your children, your death, your birth, from beginning to end, from top to bottom, government has stuck it's vile beak into everything you do, nothing is exempt.

    They'll get your stove if they want it.
    Most blue states have regulating agencies that are currently studying what they call "beneficial electrification". Sometimes, there are multiple agencies in the same state working on tangential studies. These are usually 2-3 year studies where they pull in engineers, policy advocates from special interests, and paid analysts. The first step in these studies is creating the working assumptions that the study will use. There's lots of back and forth, but ultimately it comes down to the special interests on how those assumptions are created. Once the assumptions are established, there are calculations done. Eventually, they'll release a report including what they call "data sensitivities". They use those sensitivities to further manipulate the data to achieve the desired outcome. At the end of the report are policy recommendations.

    So, they purposefully start with flawed assumptions, tweak the data (and it's VERY detailed data) to suit their desired outcome, exclude the countervailing data, then ignore Hume's "Is/Ought" problem, and label it "science". The bureaucrats and politicians take the "science" to implement "policy changes".

    I've participated in several of these. It's maddening. Of course, my input is often treated as alien. I do have some successes, but it only results in slightly moderating their preconceived outcomes. There are sometimes non-ideological engineers that can appreciate my efforts, but these working groups are dominated by the special interests.


    In every society, there is a dominant ideology. Government will leverage that dominant ideology, whatever it is, to gain power. It's impossible to impact change against the dominant ideology. Unfortunately, until the dominant ideology becomes individual liberty and economic prosperity, this path will continue. But, for a white pill, just know that ideological dominion can shift VERY rapidly when the conditions are right. I'm hoping that we're approaching that shift soon. Not just on the environmental front, but on every front.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The first step in these studies is creating the working assumptions that the study will use. There's lots of back and forth, but ultimately it comes down to the special interests on how those assumptions are created. Once the assumptions are established, there are calculations done. Eventually, they'll release a report including what they call "data sensitivities". They use those sensitivities to further manipulate the data to achieve the desired outcome.
    Do they prefer to use gas or electric to cook the numbers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Here's a video of fracking a water well.

    The process is the same for a gas or oil well, except the pressures are much higher and the wells deeper.

    Which is why, unless you have damaged the first run of casing, there is no way you can contaminate ground water by fracking.

    Water wells at the deepest are less than 1000 feet.

    TD on an oil well is typically 20,000 feet or more.
    I did not say anything about HYDROFRACKING. Hydrofracking a tap water well and in most cases a residential gas well
    only uses water and pressure. This has nothing at all to do with my suggestion that residual chemicals are in fracked natural gas
    that utilities send to customers. There are hundreds of toxic chemicals used in the shale fracking.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fracking+s...&t=ffsb&ia=web
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  26. #82
    Noone really needs a gas stove
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I did not say anything about HYDROFRACKING. Hydrofracking a tap water well and in most cases a residential gas well
    only uses water and pressure. This has nothing at all to do with my suggestion that residual chemicals are in fracked natural gas
    that utilities send to customers. There are hundreds of toxic chemicals used in the shale fracking.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fracking+s...&t=ffsb&ia=web
    Oh, cool! You did a search! Good job!

    You're so out of your element here that I'd really suggest you just walk away. You're dealing with people who ACTUALLY know how this works.

    You're talking about "hydrofracking" as if that is some how distinct from fracking an oil/gas well. You don't even understand the basic language...

    We have been hydraulically fracturing wells since the FORTIES. The only thing that has changed has been evolutions in the technology, and the innovation of directional drilling in particular.

    Let's do this - on your own, without referencing one of your bullsh!t sources, describe for us how a well is developed from construction to production. Let's hear how much you know about how this technology works...

    I'm absolutely tired of these know-nothing people spouting off about technologies which LITERALLY make their modern lives possible. So let's hear it! Tell us what you know about drilling and completing a well?
    Last edited by A Son of Liberty; 01-14-2023 at 11:18 AM.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Noone really needs a gas stove
    Or an electric either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We believe our lying eyes...

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    I did not say anything about HYDROFRACKING. Hydrofracking a tap water well and in most cases a residential gas well
    only uses water and pressure. This has nothing at all to do with my suggestion that residual chemicals are in fracked natural gas
    that utilities send to customers. There are hundreds of toxic chemicals used in the shale fracking.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=fracking+s...&t=ffsb&ia=web
    Vinegar?

    Crushed pecan and walnut shells?

    Nitrogen?

    Citric acid?

    Salt water solutions?

    Bentonite clay dust?

    That's what I've transported by the millions of gallons and tons for frack jobs around the world.

    Because the job involves such extreme high pressures, the fracking solutions are deliberately designed to be as benign and non-toxic as possible, in the event of a blow out.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  30. #86
    I'm no fan of the ugly ass wind farms, but this argument sounds like the same one being made to pin the recent whale deaths on wind farm activity.

    As far as I know there is no high powered sub sea sonar passes being made by anybody for anything out there.

    I've got former shipmates working the project, they are taking core samples and surveys, and that's about it as far as I know.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Vinegar?

    Crushed pecan and walnut shells?

    Nitrogen?

    Citric acid?

    Salt water solutions?

    Bentonite clay dust?

    That's what I've transported by the millions of gallons and tons for frack jobs around the world.

    Because the job involves such extreme high pressures, the fracking solutions are deliberately designed to be as benign and non-toxic as possible, in the event of a blow out.
    It could be really bad for people with nut allergies
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Vinegar?

    Crushed pecan and walnut shells?

    Nitrogen?

    Citric acid?

    Salt water solutions?

    Bentonite clay dust?

    That's what I've transported by the millions of gallons and tons for frack jobs around the world.

    Because the job involves such extreme high pressures, the fracking solutions are deliberately designed to be as benign and non-toxic as possible, in the event of a blow out.

    Chemicals, like benzene, toluene and ethyltoluenes were found at up to 10 times the recommended levels at a distance of 500 feet from fracking operations. Those levels were still unsafe at distances of 2,000 feet from some oil and gas fracking facilities.
    https://www.newsweek.com/colorado-fr...-sites-1466091

    List of 78 Chemicals Used in Hydraulic Fracturing Fluid in Pennsylvania
    https://marcellusdrilling.com/2010/0...-pennsylvania/

    Gas Piped Into Homes Contains Benzene and Other Risky Chemicals
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/28/c...chemicals.html

    Natural Gas Inside Homes Contains Toxic Compounds, Study Finds
    Jun 28, 2022 In the samples, the team found 296 chemical compounds, and 21 of these compounds are federally considered to be hazardous air pollutants, including benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene, and hexane.
    https://www.ecowatch.com/natural-gas...chemicals.html
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Chemicals, like benzene, toluene and ethyltoluenes were found at up to 10 times the recommended levels at a distance of 500 feet from fracking operations. Those levels were still unsafe at distances of 2,000 feet from some oil and gas fracking facilities.
    https://www.newsweek.com/colorado-fr...-sites-1466091

    List of 78 Chemicals Used in Hydraulic Fracturing Fluid in Pennsylvania
    https://marcellusdrilling.com/2010/0...-pennsylvania/

    Gas Piped Into Homes Contains Benzene and Other Risky Chemicals
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/28/c...chemicals.html

    Natural Gas Inside Homes Contains Toxic Compounds, Study Finds
    Jun 28, 2022 In the samples, the team found 296 chemical compounds, and 21 of these compounds are federally considered to be hazardous air pollutants, including benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene, and hexane.
    https://www.ecowatch.com/natural-gas...chemicals.html
    Those are not chemicals pumped into the well, those are naturally occurring hydrocarbon compounds that are part of untreated and unprocessed natural gas and oil.

    Did you read the study that your last link referenced?

    The presence of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) in unprocessed natural gas (NG) is well documented; however, the degree to which VOCs are present in NG at the point of end use is largely uncharacterized. We collected 234 whole NG samples across 69 unique residential locations across the Greater Boston metropolitan area, Massachusetts. NG samples were measured for methane (CH4), ethane (C2H6), and nonmethane VOC (NMVOC) content (including tentatively identified compounds) using commercially available USEPA analytical methods. Results revealed 296 unique NMVOC constituents in end use NG, of which 21 (or approximately 7%) were designated as hazardous air pollutants. Benzene (bootstrapped mean = 164 ppbv; SD = 16; 95% CI: 134–196) was detected in 95% of samples along with hexane (98% detection), toluene (94%), heptane (94%), and cyclohexane (89%), contributing to a mean total concentration of NMVOCs in distribution-grade NG of 6.0 ppmv (95% CI: 5.5–6.6). While total VOCs exhibited significant spatial variability, over twice as much temporal variability was observed, with a wintertime NG benzene concentration nearly eight-fold greater than summertime. By using previous NG leakage data, we estimated that 120–356 kg/yr of annual NG benzene emissions throughout Greater Boston are not currently accounted for in emissions inventories, along with an unaccounted-for indoor portion. NG-odorant content (tert-butyl mercaptan and isopropyl mercaptan) was used to estimate that a mean NG-CH4 concentration of 21.3 ppmv (95% CI: 16.7–25.9) could persist undetected in ambient air given known odor detection thresholds. This implies that indoor NG leakage may be an underappreciated source of both CH4 and associated VOCs.

    These amounts are almost undetectable.

    The sensitivity of modern spectrometers is staggering, now being able to detect not parts per billion but parts per trillion.

    One hour of spray painting will expose you to more VOCs (volatile organic compounds like benzene) than a whole lifetime of living and using natural gas appliances, based on these numbers.

    Furthermore, according to the National Fire Prevention Association, you are 3.4 times more likely to die in a house fire cause by electric cooking devices than in home with gas cooking devices.

    Cheap, clean, energy dense fuel is the bedrock of modern civilization, it is why we (were) living so much longer than our ancestors.

    Look, there's no question what the long range plan of our oppressors are:

    Step One - Ban these lifesaving and life enhancing devices like gas appliances, cars, refrigerators, air conditioning, fertilizers and modern farming.

    Step Two - Put everybody on a "green grid" like they did in Sri Lanka for instance or Holland.

    Step Three - Watch food shortages and starvation increase, heat and cold related deaths rise and diseases sweep entire nations.

    Step Four - Proclaim that "well, we did all we could do", declare there is nothing left to try but a Global Green Final Solution.

    Step Five - Release COVID 23 from the Chinese Communist bio-weapon lab where it is now being researched and tested.

    Step Six - Watch 7 to 8 billion people die of choking, stinking man made plague.

    Step Seven - Bask in the sunshine of a new day on a planet all to yourselves.

    You want to be part of that?
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 01-15-2023 at 06:42 PM.
    Another mark of a tyrant is that he likes foreigners better than citizens, and lives with them and invites them to his table; for the one are enemies, but the Others enter into no rivalry with him. - Aristotle's Politics Book 5 Part 11

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/CoverdaleReed/st...24505406316544
    The way AOC uses that mocking tone it makes me think she took a page out of Pelosi and got drunk.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

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