The problem with the NFL protestors

[acptulsa]

Tucker had a black lawyer on his show the other day...

And all the forty million who share his ethnicity march in lockstep with him?

Sounds like a mighty collectivist theory. I never imagined forty million individuals could agree on anything.

[Madison320]

You spend a lot of time whining that people don't address every little, semi-relevant point you make. Yet instead of addressing the point that the government sets up controlled groups with which they try to reframe the debate, from the Official Tea Party Organizations of a few years ago to BLM today, you just reinforce their hand by insisting that no one else should even try to reach the individuals protesting and tell them to be careful what they wish for.

I know the MSM and the CIA are formidable adversaries. But they only win total victories when good people forfeit the game.

The bad guys are winning this domestic war through collectivism. Like their organized 'Tea Party' astroturf, BLM can't collectivize every protestor out there. But they can make those unhappy people look collectivized, and unappetizing enough that we decide they're too far gone to reason with. Just as the Astrotea Parties made us took too far gone to reason with minority citizens, though those few who tried found out we're really pretty reasonable. And just like the legions who jump on threads like this, and conflate protesting NFL players with BLM even though there's no proof that more than a small handful have anything to do with BLM itself, are making it hard for many minority former regular posters to this site to stomach it for more than a few minutes at a time any more.

So would you stand with the KKK and protest discrimination laws despite the fact that you disagree with them on other points?

[acptulsa]

So would you stand with the KKK and protest discrimination laws despite the fact that you disagree with them on other points?

Do you consider discrimination laws as urgent and important an issue as fascist, federalized, militarized police indiscriminately shooting citizens? Or are you just pulling an issue out of your ass because it's pretty much the only thing of which the KKK could conceivably come down on the correct side?

Go find someone else with whom to play your little game. I'm not even suggesting going to a BLM rally. I try to avoid hanging with the CIA. And, no, an NFL game is not a BLM rally. I know that's the point you're trying to gloss over, in your tireless efforts to divide us so we can be conquered. I never offered to help you do it.

[Madison320]

Do you consider discrimination laws as urgent and important an issue as fascist, federalized, militarized police indiscriminately shooting citizens?

Maybe not discrimination laws by themselves, but combined with other similar violations of property rights, like progressive taxation, minimum wage yes, absolutely. If you really want to help black people how about:

eliminating the welfare state
eliminating public schools
eliminating discrimination
legalizing drugs

Protesting police won't do squat.

You still haven't answered the question. Would you stand with the KKK to protest an issue you agree with them on? Free speech for example?

[acptulsa]

Maybe not discrimination laws by themselves, but combined with other similar violations of property rights, like progressive taxation, minimum wage yes, absolutely. If you really want to help black people how about:

eliminating the welfare state
eliminating public schools
eliminating discrimination
legalizing drugs

Protesting police won't do squat.

LOL

You want me to do all that--even legalize drugs--without even taking one step to build coalitions and attract allies. Not even as obvious a step as protesting federally militarized police.

You still haven't answered the question. Would you stand with the KKK to protest an issue you agree with them on? Free speech for example?

Yet you do want me to build a coalition with the most deservedly unpopular people in the nation. Talk about doing something that won't accomplish squat!

Why U want me 2 B stoopid?

Why are you pretending the question is even relevant? If I am talking about going out of the way to find protestors against federally militarized police to stand with while avoiding BLM, why on Earth would I go out of my way to stand with your racist, divisive, long-since-CIA-infiltrated organization?

[Madison320]

LOL

You want me to do all that--even legalize drugs--without even taking one step to build coalitions and attract allies. Not even as obvious a step as protesting federally militarized police.



Yet you do want me to build a coalition with the most deservedly unpopular people in the nation. Talk about doing something that won't accomplish squat!

Why U want me 2 B stoopid?

Why are you pretending the question is even relevant? If I am talking about going out of the way to find protestors against federally militarized police to stand with while avoiding BLM, why on Earth would I go out of my way to stand with your racist, divisive, long-since-CIA-infiltrated organization?

I thought you wanted me to kneel with the NFL protestors to protest police brutality, not protest police brutality separate from them. I'd be glad to do it separately.

"I propose that the best way to convince these people all white people aren't the same is to help them fight federally militarized police. I propose that no one should pass up a chance to put a dent in the federal militarization of police because they might get close enough to some socialist in the process to explain to them why socialism leads to things like federally militarized police afterward. I propose Count had a point when he said the right place to be might be on the knee next to those protestors. "

It's hypocritical to ask me to build a coalition with groups I don't like when you won't do the same.

[Madison320]

Another point is that I consider police brutality to be a symptom of the problem, not the cause. I think the root cause is socialism and trying to treat a symptom won't do any good.

[acptulsa]

I thought you wanted me to kneel with the NFL protestors to protest police brutality, not protest police brutality separate from them. I'd be glad to do it separately.

What part of 'an NFL game is not a BLM rally' are you pretending not to understand?

It's hypocritical to ask me to build a coalition with groups I don't like when you won't do the same.

I like people who are against the federal militarization of police. And I figure the only way to conquer BLM is to divide those people from BLM. Which cannot be done without rubbing the elbows of those people, and driving a wedge of reason between them and the government-sponsored socialist astroturf.

Another point is that I consider police brutality to be a symptom of the problem, not the cause. I think the root cause is socialism and trying to treat a symptom won't do any good.

So, helping the grassroots see that federal militarization of police is what has made the problem worse, and that federally-sponsored astroturf organizations will subvert the effort to end it, won't do any good? Or is your argument that, despite evidence to the contrary (who sometimes post on this very forum) not one in forty million blacks are capable of understanding these facts and seeing the evidence? Because that's just another collectivist argument, and I know better than to buy it.

[Madison320]

What part of 'an NFL game is not a BLM rally' are you pretending not to understand?



I like people who are against the federal militarization of police. And I figure the only way to conquer BLM is to divide those people from BLM. Which cannot be done without rubbing the elbows of those people, and driving a wedge of reason between them and the government-sponsored socialist astroturf.



So, helping the grassroots see that federal militarization of police is what has made the problem worse, and that federally-sponsored astroturf organizations will subvert the effort to end it, won't do any good? Or is your argument that, despite evidence to the contrary (who sometimes post on this very forum) not one in forty million blacks are capable of understanding these facts and seeing the evidence? Because that's just another collectivist argument, and I know better than to buy it.

I'm an equal opportunity hater. I hate white racist groups and black racist groups and I'm not going to "stand" with either of them.

[FSP-Rebel]

[Madison320]

It should be up to the NFL to decide if it is a problem and what to do about protests. The government should not be telling a business what to do and who to fire. There is also the question of free speech.

So for the second time, are you against discrimination laws?

[helmuth_hubener]

Tucker had a man on his show the other day...

And all the forty million who share his sex march in lockstep with him?

Sounds like a mighty collectivist theory. I never imagined four billion individuals could agree on anything.

Ask yourself, first: are you most interested in:

A) Scoring rhetorical points on this issue, or

B) Thinking about it

Because if the answer is A), I will leave you to your strawmen, your clever tricks, and all the ways you can show off your great verbal prowess. And you do have great verbal prowess. No doubt about it.

But to address your post, I have edited the theory that you are criticizing to be sex instead of race, to make it more clear. The theory that you seem to be accusing --- someone? Tucker? The black fellow? Malcolm X? -- of putting forth is that men and women are different. Or, excuse me, that whites and blacks are different. But whatever. Straw for straw.

And are men and women different?

Lo and behold: they are!

Is this statement above in red a horrible, awful, hateful, criminal statement guilty of the SJW crime of "collectivism"? Of course it is.... according to crazed, batty, insane SJWs. Does holding to the obvious truth that "they are" mean holding that all four billion male humans on Earth are in lockstep with each other? In total agreement on everything and the same in every way? Of course it does, according to..... nobody ever, except you.

So, if you, or anyone else, want to deny obvious biological realities and claim that men and women are not different, then that is your business, I suppose, and in today's deranged world it will make you quite popular as that is the Correct, Approved View that the elite require and are compulsorily shoving down our throats, but be aware that every step that you take away from reality like this weakens you, undermines your intellect and your integrity, and brings you closer and closer to La-La Land.

As for me, I just posted the article because it was interesting; who can say what my opinion is? Maybe I believe men and women are neurologically identical. Or interchangeable. A myth? A cultural construct we need to irradicate? Who can say. Who can say.

[helmuth_hubener]

Another interesting article.


Not surprising in some ways, surprising in others:

Q7: Last week, Donald Trump said NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem. Do you think NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem?

Yes: 64%
No: 25%
Unsure: 11%

It is not surprising that Trump is winning already, even before talking about it at a Patrolman’s Benevolent Association convention to the cheers of Police Officers or at a VFW convention to the cheers of veterans. It is not surprising if he would have slightly higher support than he won the election by.

What is surprising is that he has 64% support, and only 25% would oppose Donald Trump. We have been told President Trump is Hitler, and resisting him is a solemn duty of all Americans. We were told Black Lives Matters is a very influential protest movement that everyone supports. We are told all minorities oppose Trump. yet if you added every black and Hispanic in the nation, you would just about have 25%. And you know most of those 25% are white liberals.

In fact if the left is honest when they assess how many Americans are liberal, 25% means not even every liberal opposes Donald Trump.

This means that President Trump is now conditioning 64% of the nation to feel he represents their interests. Probably 52 or 53 percent were already supporters (not all vote). So that means he is increasing his support, and the number of people who view him as an ally, by 11 or 12 percent. Meanwhile, he also K-ifies the nation with conflict stimuli, erases the toxic leftist culture that is poisoning our youth, and teaches SJWs they need to keep their mouths shut.

None of this is merely good luck, that happened by accident after an off-the-cuff remark that happened to blow up into an issue. This was all planned and mapped out. Every outrage by the media is merely Donald pulling their marionette strings, using a plan that has been months in the making.

What it has produced is a pretty impressive set of victories. It is funny to watch how President Trump simply showed up and took them, at no cost to him in political support, while no Establishment Cuckservative in history would dared have even utter a word. I have never seen a better example demonstrating how George W. Bush failed the nation and handed this country to Obama, despite his leadership in the War On Terror.

Despite all of their professional degrees in political science, communications, history, and law, and their representations to conservative voters that they were professional politicians, it is almost like the Republican Party to date, and all of its candidates, were completely incompetent with respect to political leadership and running a nation.

Tell others about r/K Theory, because K-selection is coming back strong

[charrob]

I side with Ron. Not a fan of the forced militarism, but that is separate from all of the other issues. See the video above.

The forced patriotism is what started all of this. I agree with Ron that before 2009 players didn’t even participate in the singing of the national anthem: they were in the locker rooms. That the origination of all this was pentagon money for recruitment; if that never occurred, we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.

I agree with Ron that this is not a freedom of speech issue and that it’s up to the NFL owners whether they demand their employees to worship a piece of cloth that, to them, represents death by cop for black people.

Insisting that employees worship a religious God or a state God is political: if I were made in my job to worship anybody’s state or religious God, I would quickly find another job. I want to focus on my job field at work not some ridiculous religious or state crap. I was interviewed/offered a job in the south many years ago and was flown down there over several days with others as they were hiring numerous people. On one day we all sat in a circle for lunch and the owners of the company stood up and said “let’s bow our heads in prayer” at which time they went into this long prayer. I knew that minute I could not work for them. I am a Christian but on the job I want nothing to do with religious worship or state worship; I want to simply do my job. imho forcing religious or state worship is completely inappropriate for a job that has nothing to do with religion or the state.

Can the owners force their employees to worship the state God by forcing them to stand for the anthem? Yes they can. I agree with Ron: there is no free speech rights at work. But then the employees also have the right to pick up and leave to find work where they are simply allowed to play football.

I also agree about the globalism agenda of the left and strongly oppose it. But Colin Kaepernick started all this and his statement is clear that for him this is about black people being killed by militarized police:

Colin Kaepernick: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

And what would you be siding with if you took a knee?

Do you agree with the side that wants NFL owners to force players to worship a piece of cloth that, to them, represents death by cop for black people?

I oppose cultural Marxism but I also oppose the side that pushes their authoritarian nationalistic agenda down my throat and the throats of others that want nothing to do with it.

It has changed several times. At first it was about Police shootings, then it was about oppression, then it was about a whole host of cultural Marxist goals.

The oppression is the police shootings. The protests in St. Louis Missouri against a murderous police officer are currently happening going on now for almost 2 weeks. That’s current news; these players see that.

There may be some football players who add Marxist goals onto that, but I suspect most are kneeling for the same reason people in St. Louis are currently protesting. Police violence.

Will this group get hijacked for Marxist goals? Most likely, just as all groups seem to get hijacked: Even Ron Paul’s tea party back in 2007 got hijacked by establishment republicans; it was proven back in 2011 that violence in the occupy movement was created by undercover cops who had infiltrated the group – they had pictures and video of some guys involved in violence at the doors of the National Air and Space Museum in D.C. when an occupy group went there to peacefully protest an exhibit on drone warfare; a few months later someone posted pictures of cops that were those same people. So yes, all movements have to worry about infiltration by others with different agendas.

And for those who haven't followed the news about all of the various people who took a knee this past weekend, including bands and kids teams, it's now all about "freedom of speech", which, as Ron (and I) have so clearly stated, it does not apply while at work. It's purely the discretion of the employer.

Yes, I completely agree with this.

-----------------------------------------------------------

So in summary:

• All this got started by the pentagon.
• If it was not for the pentagon we would not be having this conversation right now.
• It’s not a good idea to incorporate Religion or State worship into jobs that have nothing to do with the church or the government; if they do, it creates the exact problems we see today.

[acptulsa]

But to address your post, I have edited the theory that you are criticizing to be sex instead of race, to make it more clear. The theory that you seem to be accusing --- someone? Tucker? The black fellow? Malcolm X? -- of putting forth is that men and women are different. Or, excuse me, that whites and blacks are different. But whatever. Straw for straw.

And are men and women different?

I can't believe all of this is couched in a lecture about straw men.

What difference does it make if humans of different races are different or not? Even different people can have the same enemies in Washington.

[helmuth_hubener]

I can't believe all of this is couched in a lecture about straw men.

No lecture, man. Chill!

What difference does it make if humans of different sexes are different or not?

Oh, I don't know.... acceptance of reality? Always nice to have an acceptance of reality.

Otherwise, La-La Land, here we come!

Not all facts about reality always have an immediately obvious practical application.

[euphemia]

The NFL, NBA, and NCAA are nothing but viaducts for human trafficking. Kneeling with them would be like kneeling with slaves. As much as I love sports, I think the wiser slaves will escape while they can.

[dannno]

What difference does it make if humans of different races are different or not? Even different people can have the same enemies in Washington.

That's a great question, because it shouldn't really matter that much, if at all... but it does. And the reason is because of the left.

You see, the left claims that women and minorities are not as successful in the marketplace, and that since all of the races are equal and because men and women are all equal, the only possibly reason for these disparities must be due to white male privilege and racism against minorities.

This creates two very large problems. The first one is that it sets up an entitlement mentality which leads to bigger government. The second is that it creates a huge problem with resentment, white males are hated because minorities believe that the lack of success in their communities is their fault.

By coming to terms with reality, both of these very large problems could be alleviated.

[spudea]

Its so much more than disrespectful to veterans and fallen solders. The flag and anthem represent EVERYONE in this country! All races, and all colors, all rich or poor. Its 1776 man! When we stared down the most powerful military in the world. In that moment MANY became ONE! You think there wasn't issues and disagreements then too? Many founders wanted to end slavery right then, but they also realized what they were up against, many southern states wouldn't join the war effort without assurances that slavery would remain legal in the new nation. Without the south, the war was lost! Its $#@!ing independence day man! We declare in one voice WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on, we're going to survive! Because its worth it, its worth dying for man, this freedom that we have is unique to the world. Never before seen in human history. Freedom is the most unifying idea we have. Yes it includes the freedom to kneel but anyone that does either doesn't understand what it means or truly hates America. I think Colin Kaepernick actually does hate America. He wears shirts with Fidel Castro, he wears socks depicting cops as pigs. He raises a clinched fist in anger, dividing us all into groups he likes and groups he hates. Since this started is he ever on record saying he loves America? Because kneeling during the anthem does nothing for any cause whatsoever. If he has a cause that is important to him, maybe its perceived inequality, what has changed since he started this?? NOTHING! Because he encourages division and hate for his country nothing will ever change with a message like that.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Well...I guess I better get my ass to Reno then.

Next September. Better plan on it. We have NO idea how many more years this kind of racing can continue before either the expense gets too great to put it on or the goonerment goonsquad simply denies the permits necessary to exist...

[juleswin]

The NFL, NBA, and NCAA are nothing but viaducts for human trafficking. Kneeling with them would be like kneeling with slaves. As much as I love sports, I think the wiser slaves will escape while they can.

You are the smartest person I know who supports Trump so I don't believe for one second you believe a word of that rubbish you posted. I know this because you would have buried any millionaire football player who came out to dare say that his team owners were treating him like a slave or he was being treated like slaves by anyone including the govt.

You are a smartest person arguing for the other side so for you guy's sake, I hope the post is a joke

[Dr.3D]

Thread winner!

If I had a T watter, I would spread it around.

Is somebody playing the National Anthem?

[Madison320]

Can the owners force their employees to worship the state God by forcing them to stand for the anthem? Yes they can. I agree with Ron: there is no free speech rights at work. But then the employees also have the right to pick up and leave to find work where they are simply allowed to play football.

I seriously doubt the government would allow the NFL to fire the players who are protesting. Which is another thing that irritates me about this (I'm highly irritable as you can tell).

[Brian4Liberty]

What makes you think liberty people would be welcome? Again, you have not been paying attention.

Just scratching the surface, it is not that hard to find.

BLM Co-Founder "Allah Give me strength not to cuss/kill these men and white folks out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYkvZodBRuY

BLM No Whites Allowed
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...es+not+allowed

BLM Whites in Back
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...es+in+the+back

BLM attacks whites
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...attacks+whites

This was retweeted by Kaepernick's Saudi girlfriend and political adviser:

https://www.twitter.com/hbryant42/st...71528185597952

[Krugminator2]

Kaepernick's girlfriend also seems to have a problem with whitey moving in next door and making the black neighborhood unrecognizable. She doesn't seem racist at all.

[Brian4Liberty]

Another retweet by Kaepernick's controller, uhhh, Saudi girlfriend...

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColorOfCh...77938274836480

[Brian4Liberty]

Kaepernick's girlfriend also seems to have a problem with whitey moving in next door and making the black neighborhood unrecognizable. She doesn't seem racist at all.

In other words, white players are not welcome. This comes from the originator of the NFL kneel-down protest.

[enhanced_deficit]

'Goodbye Pittsburgh Steelers, burn in hell!' upset NFL fans torch their gear, NFL ratings fall

Is somebody playing the National Anthem?

Not all kneeling is equal.

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-st...90037290-2.jpg
















Relational

How the NFL sells (and profits from) the inextricable link between football and war

[anaconda]

100% in agreement with Ron.

I can only claim 97% agreement since Alex Jones completely cut him off.

[anaconda]

Not all kneeling is equal.