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For one thing the wall increases spending, so it's hard to believe someone wants to cut spending when they want to increase it at the same time. Everyone wants to cut "some" spending. Only the ones that are serious want to cut "all" spending".
Another thing is that immigration and all the other tiny debates are a distraction from the big problem which is spending. Again, it's hard to take someone serious about spending cuts when they never mention it.
I agree that the republicans are much better in relation to the democrats. The problem is that the republicans are still moving us in the direction of socialism, but at a slower pace. The even bigger problem is that when the economy crashes from all the debt it's going to get blamed on the republicans and a failure of capitalism. That's why I wanted Hillary to win. I wanted a nice, clean, failed experiment with socialism. Now the failure is going to get wrongly blamed on capitalism.
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An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)
The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)
It temporarily increases spending. The more immigrants flowing across the more money it costs to house them and process them. Then when they are here they will cost us more in social program at the state and federal level. It is a pipe dream to believe the federal government and every state is going to immediately stop benefits to illegals. In the mean time Americans are stuck paying.
In the meantime we suffer through it for 50 or so years by giving the left what they want? We are not going to live forever and we are all making the best of the time we have while we are here by keeping our money out of government hands by slowing them down instead.
All this shilling for open borders out of fear of government spending for the wall is going to give you more government spending in the long run when these people become citizens and vote for more government spending.
True. But it's an even bigger pipe dream to think that the government is ever going to be able to stop the flow of immigrants as long as the benefits are there. First, you can't build a dam high enough to fight the pressure of the incentives. Second, you'd have to believe that politicians actually want to solve a problem rather than have it as a continuous wedge issue that drives fundraising.
So, I mean, if you're going to have pipe dreams anyway, why not have the ones that involve liberty?
"And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat
"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire
I totally agree. For example if drugs were legal that would stop most of the gang related problems. Another huge problem is the cost of hiring a legal US worker. If the cost of hiring an legal worker was the same as hiring an illegal worker, most companies would hire legal ones. I'm annoyed at people here who want to make it even harder than it already is for a company to hire someone.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Tell that to Rand Paul who supported Mitt Romney
Btw, I am posting this not necessarily to suggest Rand was right in saying Romney would be better than Obama. But you seem to dismiss Coulter earlier in the thread for saying the same thing, now are you going to dismess Rand for endorsing Romney?
Nobody liked Rand supporting Romney but he had better reasons for doing so than Coulter, he needed the cooperation of other Republicans to get things done in the Senate, she is a pundit who is supposed to hold our side's feet to the fire and denounce scum like Romney.
Rand has a much better record than Coulter on so many other things as well.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Based on what?
If you look at the percentage of federal dollars going to US citizens and the percentage of registered voters who are not new immigrants, you'd find that the problem is 99.9% with existing US citizens.
It would be interesting to see if there's a correlation between numbers of immigrants and prosperity among countries.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
Based on the fact that immigrant households receive welfare at twice the rate of the natives and vote for the Demoncrats by much higher margins.
But even if every native leftist was Lenin they still had only about half the country on their side and with enough campaigning and education we could overcome them but if they are allowed to import unlimited reinforcements we will never turn the tide.
I believe that we have actually made progress with the natives but the left has imported enough reinforcements to overcome it and not only keep thing almost evenly split but start to gain ground.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
I agree and I've always aid that's the big problem with immigration. That they lean strongly left. But it's a higher percentage of a tiny number. And the solution is not to build a wall. I'm in favor of controlling immigration but not with a wall.
Where are you seeing progress with the natives in terms of the real problem which is spending?
I know, right?
And somehow the same federal government that can't even manage to keep "illegal" drugs out of their own maximum security prisons is going to magically acquire the competence to curtail "illegal" immigration without having to construct a massive, Big Brotheresque "Fortress America" type police/surveillance state? Riiiiight.
And I get called a utopian dreamer.
Chris
"Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon
"...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul
So you would have preferred Hillary's picks for the supreme court then, that would effect libertarians and conservatives for decades not just 4-8 years ?Seriously, Trump supporters have not thought this all the way through. And it's said to see such a lack of critical thinking at a place that I once thought thrived on it.
Strategic voting to prevent a wipe out at the supreme court level, is a debate this forum can have all day everyday, talk to Rand Paul if you need clarification on this topic.
Last edited by ProBlue33; 02-23-2019 at 03:08 PM.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Overwhelmed though immigration!!! C'mon man. I'm guessing that the amount of federal money spent on immigrants is less than 1% of the total budget. Probably WAY less. And the same for the amount of new voters that are recent immigrants. I'll bet it's closer to .01%.
I'll bet there's a lot more immigration in free countries like Singapore and Hong Kong compared to totalitarian countries like Russia and North Korea.
Again, I'm not saying immigrants aren't having a negative impact but it's not remotely close to the main problem. I doubt it cracks the top twenty. The spending damage that Trump and the republicans have done is probably thousands of times more than the spending damage done by immigrants. Did immigrants forced Trump to increase spending by what several hundred billion in his first 2 years?
We do have many problems but immigrants are the last straw that threatens to break our back and prevent us from solving the others.
Recent immigrants aren't the only thing we are talking about, it takes quite a few generations for their descendants assimilate, we are much worse off because of immigrants that came here 50 years ago and we will be much worse off 50 years from now because of the immigrants that are allowed in currently.
If we don't solve the immigration problem we won't have a future even if we temporarily solve our other problems right now.
And illegal voting by immigrants is a much bigger problem than you seem to think.
Remember that the other side only has to win by one vote, excessive and illegal immigration is like letting a gambler keep "just one" ace up his sleeve.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
No big deal though, respected neoconservative voice and Bush-Cheney champion Hannity is still standing with MAGA.
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