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Thread: Let's talk about credit cards...

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphim View Post
    That's not up to you decide.

    If I have money and you don't and you want a loan, it is not immoral for you and I to make a voluntary agreement in which you spend my money now, with the obligation of paying it back + a decided premium (interest).

    The problem in the credit card market right now is NOT that people are spending future consuption, but that the creditors don't have the capital to back the counterfit digi currency being created. THAT is inflationary. Charging interest on something that does not exist is immoral (at least the argument can be made, and I would not disagree).

    I understand what you're saying...credit, however, is NOT the problem...the TYPE of credit is.
    Fine with me,give me a gold standard or a competing silver/gold dollar and Ill stay far away from the credit lending and spending. Like I said, any kind of credit is immoral. I never said ban it,i said it was immoral.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    No it is a moral issue. People should STOP living beyond their means and stop living on credit cards,its immoral it inflates prices in the market and it HURTS future generations as well as perpetuates dishonest lending/spending/dishonest interest rates.
    I see what you are saying, but you are kind of implying that everyone who uses credit cards is immoral/dishonest.

    This is simply. Not the case.

    There are 2 examples from my own personal experience that maybe can make my point. For one, my wife and I like to go on vacations annually. One thing we do throughout the year is accumulate savings through unconventional means, one of which is rack up rebate points on our credit card. We use a credit card for most of our purchases, then pay the entire balance monthly, never paying interest, instead in effect getting paid. We can't do that with our debit card. This is responsible use of a financial tool we have at our disposal. If you have a screw that needs turning, do you use your fingers or a screwdriver?

    The next example is a business aspect. I am a foreman at an electrical company. My boss can not, and will not micromanage his employees, and leaves the entire function of buying things for the job up to me. I am not going to fork my own cash over, I routinely spend lots of money, so I have to use company money. Should they give me a cash allowance? Not smart, potential for abuse, it might limit me, etc. No, they give me credit card so i can make purchases when i need, while they get a statement of what i spend. The credit card company pays the bill instantly, and the company pays the combined bill monthly, usually giving us time to be paid by the customer.

    A system of credit, used responsibly is a good thing. I don't believe all credit is bad, although there are marked times in our history that shows that abuse of credit can be devastating to the country and economy. Unfortunately, the answer has always been to give more credit and power to the largest creditor in the world. If we want to end bad credit, we need to rally behind "end the fed". We need to be strong advocates of sound money, and educate people every chance we get.



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  5. #33
    Thank you for clarifying.

    I disagree with that broad sweeping generalizationg but at least you take a liberty stance when it comes to dealing with things you disagree with!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica View Post
    Fine with me,give me a gold standard or a competing silver/gold dollar and Ill stay far away from the credit lending and spending. Like I said, any kind of credit is immoral. I never said ban it,i said it was immoral.

  6. #34
    If you're going to suggest credit cards be banned, you might as well suggest bank loans be banned. Money is created out of thin air in both cases. You're slashing at the branches (credit cards) instead of hacking at the roots (fiat money and fractional reserve banking).

    Libertarian 4321 has it right - credit cards are a tool and must be used properly if you don't want to get hurt. You shouldn't play with credit cards any more than you should play with fire, and never should either be banned from existence.

    Government bailouts of credit card companies have to be put to a stop, but that doesn't mean the private sector can't bail out a credit card company (if I recall, J.P. Morgan privately bailed out failing banks in 1907 before there was a Federal Reserve). If you play your cards right, you can bail yourself out w/ a credit card at no charge if the need arises. I had an expensive car repair last winter. I put it on a credit card and then transferred the balance to a different credit card that I already had at 0% interest for 12 months. And the original credit card is sending me offers in the mail to transfer the balance back to them at 0%! I could do that, but I'm getting offers in the mail all the time from new credit card issuers trying to entice me - one is offering a 0% interest rate for 12 months AND they are willing to waive the normal 3% transfer fee. Credit cards are great if you play your cards right.

  7. #35
    I think the "credit is immoral" camp are discounting the fact that sometimes good people need help in the short run.

    I fail to see how me having extra money and lending to you (shotage of money) is immoral...

    Done property it is extremely beneficial to both parties.

    A ban on credit is WHAT BROUGHT ON THE DARK AGES.

    Quote Originally Posted by emazur View Post
    If you're going to suggest credit cards be banned, you might as well suggest bank loans be banned. Money is created out of thin air in both cases. You're slashing at the branches (credit cards) instead of hacking at the roots (fiat money and fractional reserve banking).

    Libertarian 4321 has it right - credit cards are a tool and must be used properly if you don't want to get hurt. You shouldn't play with credit cards any more than you should play with fire, and never should either be banned from existence.

    Government bailouts of credit card companies have to be put to a stop, but that doesn't mean the private sector can't bail out a credit card company (if I recall, J.P. Morgan privately bailed out failing banks in 1907 before there was a Federal Reserve). If you play your cards right, you can bail yourself out w/ a credit card at no charge if the need arises. I had an expensive car repair last winter. I put it on a credit card and then transferred the balance to a different credit card that I already had at 0% interest for 12 months. And the original credit card is sending me offers in the mail to transfer the balance back to them at 0%! I could do that, but I'm getting offers in the mail all the time from new credit card issuers trying to entice me - one is offering a 0% interest rate for 12 months AND they are willing to waive the normal 3% transfer fee. Credit cards are great if you play your cards right.

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