We're rugged individualists in the western frontier. Waaaaah! Goobment save me!Originally Posted by Deborah K
Wow! Can you imagine being scared of 4 people +30 miles away? LOL
I live less than 10 miles away from a massive military base that often drops artillery at all hours, I spend time on beaches where the MIC is constantly playing some kinda war game just offshore, every alphabet agency there is probably has massive weapon filled buildings near by and Tijuana is not far outside that 30 mile zone... AND I AM NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE HOUSE with a gun... how scared should I be LOL
Some bullet points in this article:
Finicum's family members commissioned a private autopsy and also declined to make it public.The plan was that Finicum would leave first in his truck and the Jeep with Ammon Bundy would come about 15 minutes afterward. -- Cox
McConnell said the vehicles should leave at the same time. -- CoxTwo planes are in the air and the FBI shared the "most clear" video. Oregon State Police dash cameras didn't record the shooting. – BretzingThere is a minute by minute play based on footage and the stories of Beitzig, Cox, Sharpe and McConnel.We tried to dial out 911. None of us had any service. All service was gone." -- Cox
Ryan Bundy turns on his phone to narrate and record what's happening. -- Cox
Cox grabs her camera and begins filming. -- Cox
"I'm down as low as I can get, camera up and I said to LaVoy, 'How far do you think we can get before they shoot the tires out?' He said, 'We have to go 50 miles.' I said, 'We're not going to make 50 miles. They're coming up along side of us.'" -- Cox
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...49#post6125749
Last edited by phill4paul; 02-06-2016 at 02:54 PM.
truthfully..a lot of these "westerners" are from california...and from the blue states in the midwest . They are the same kind of liberals moving into arizona by the droves...ticks me off.
Lawmakers Rush Bill To Shield Name Of Officer Who Shot LaVoy Finicum;
Oregon legislators are rushing through a bill aimed at protecting the identity of the Oregon State Police officer who shot and killed Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation leader Robert LaVoy Finicum after hearing that the officer faces potential death threats.
House Bill 4087, which would allow the police to ask a judge to bar release of the shooter’s name for 90 days at a time, is now headed to the House floor after State Police Superintendent Richard Evans Jr. described how police and other government officials in Burns faced a series of threats and intimidating behavior before and during the 41-day occupation at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge.
Evans said at a House Judiciary Committee meeting last week that law enforcement officials received a series of threats, including threats related to the death of Finicum. He was shot on Jan. 26 when the FBI and other law enforcement officers arrested several leaders of the occupation while they were traveling on a rural stretch of road between Burns and John Day.
“They are trying to figure out and ask who pulled the trigger,” said Evans, who did not go into any detail about the threats. However, House Judiciary Chairman Jeff Barker, D-Aloha and a former Portland Police officer, said in an interview Sunday that he was told privately by Evans that “there was a real, credible threat and they needed something right away” to protect the name of the state police officer.
more..http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns...3-YwQE.twitter
Why are they doing this? Aren't they supposed to erect a statue in his honor?
Fear.
This sounds like a job for Anonymous who specializes in data retrieval.
I thought he was shot nine times.
There would be more than one killer.
Why protect just one individual?
Perhaps the others were from other ........agencies.
They are not admitting $#@!.
They want to kill any investigation..
this is one more tool in obfuscation.
edit,, to add
I am not so concerned with the name of any one. not just the one that fired what was determined to be the fatal shot.
I want name of the one that fired on the truck before it skidded off the road.
I want the name of the one that fired on him on the ground.
mostly those that ordered, planed, and OK'd this $#@!.
And those capable,, who did nothing.
Last edited by pcosmar; 02-15-2016 at 09:42 PM.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
That would be nice, but I don't think they care about these kinds of issues.
The Usual Suspects are guilty in my eyes on this, as it looks like nothing less than a military style ambush.
Last edited by DavesNotHere; 02-16-2016 at 10:18 PM.
Livestream of press conference regarding DeSchutes County Sheriff investigation of Finicum's death. Should start in about another 30 minutes.
http://koin.com/koin-video-extras/
Starting.
http://koin.com/koin-video-extras/
They will be matching FBI video w/ Shawna Cox's cell video audio.
In brief....
Only 8 shots. 6 State troopers. 2 FBI. Not 100's as reported by Cox and Victoria.
Justified and necessary.
1 less than lethal shot was fired before Payne exited . Payne exited. Cox began recording.
Troopers fired 3 shots as his vehicle approached roadblock. Speeding truck considered "dangerous weapon." Justified. 2 shots by FBI agent as Finicum exited. 9mm found in left side interior pocket. Gift from a relative. Reaches for his pocket twice and is not shot yet. Refused orders twice, then a third. Reaches again and shot 3 times by the two officers behind him. Trooper by woods had a taser.
The FBI/HRT shot twice as he exited the vehicle. 3 bullets in torso entering his back by OSP troopers. All shots by OSP Justified.
4 distinct bullet holes in truck. 3 into the front (Troopers). One in the roof (HRT).
HRT operators fired 2 shots as Finicum exited truck (still under investigation). Neither hit Finicum.
HRT operators did not disclose shots. Ongoing investigation into the HRT shots.
Q&A:
Shawna Cox complete video will be released later.
No question as to authenticity of FBI videos. No manipulation.
Won't release names of officers involved for their safety.
No idea of number of non-lethal rounds. ( My personal belief is this is what Cox and Shawna may have been referring to. p4p)
Didn't communicate stop w/ Grant county Sheriff.
Office of Inspector General will investigate HRT shots.
Conference ends.
ETA: Coroners report showed three wounds. All in back. One on lower right side just above waist level. Two in upper back left shoulder and left/center of neck/spine. IIRC.
Last edited by phill4paul; 03-08-2016 at 01:53 PM.
First youtube out. Not complete from the beginning...
He said they were using flash bangs and something else (I didn't catch the term) - which I would assume sounded like gunfire to occupants.
Oregon State trooper fired 3 shots into truck.
FBI fired 2 shots as Finicum exited vehicle.
Three shots to Finicum's back torso.
There are 4 distinct bullet holes in truck - one in roof. They could not explain 4th shot at the time, as FBI did not disclose their shots and actions afterwards to the troopers. There is an ongoing investigation regarding FBI's shots.
Finicum told them repeatedly at the first stop that they intended to go meet with the sheriff. (One wonders why they didn't just arrest him there?)
I believe, it was stated that Grant County officials were not made aware of this plan. (Would that include the Sheriff they were going to see?)
Said the guy running to the left as they hit snowbank wanted to avoid being behind one of their parked vehicles if Finicm's truck hit the roadblock and that's why he runs. Has always looked to me like he was running into the path of Finicum's vehicle, but they imply Finicum was trying to run him down. Looks to me like he swerved further to avoid hitting him.
Said Finicum was shot because he did not comply and get on the ground. They knew he had a weapon from pictures/video. Said he reached towards weapon 2 times and reraised hands, and they didn't shoot. He reached towards weapon a third time and was shot 3 times in the back, in torso. Said troopers shot to protect themselves or other troopers.
After last person left vehicle, aid was rendered to Finicum and ambulance called which arrived some minutes later. He wasn't moving very long after the 3 shots, though.
Said additional video from Cox's phone would be released. Also photos. Had DVDs for the press.
No mention of other video, though. (They should have had multiple cameras running?)
Some of the speakers names (probably misspelled):
Bill Williams
Greg Bretsing - FBI special agent in charge
Tim Colahan
Bill Moygins(?) - some sort of attorney?
Oregon State Police
FBI HRT operators
Last edited by Valli6; 03-08-2016 at 02:11 PM.
It's no doubt that LaVoy felt he was under fire from the time he left the initial stop. Because he was. From the admitted non-lethal round at the initial stop which could have been misconstrued as lethal shots. The three shots into the vehicle as he approached the road block. Then the two shots by the HRT operator as he exited the vehicle with his hands up. What is a man supposed to do when he is being fired upon? I have no doubt that LaVoy was trying to draw fire and attention away from those in the truck. That makes him a hero to me.
Drudge linked to this story.
FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting
By Les Zaitz | The Oregonian/OregonLive
March 08, 2016 at 10:10 AM, updated March 08, 2016 at 11:56 AM
BEND – An FBI agent is suspected of lying about firing twice at Robert "LaVoy" Finicium and may have gotten help from four other FBI agents in covering up afterward, authorities revealed Tuesday.
The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death, but now all five unnamed agents, part of an elite national unit, are under criminal investigation by the U.S. Justice Department. Inspector General Michael Horowitz is leading the independent inquiry.
The remarkable disclosure came as a team of local investigators released findings that two state troopers shot Finicium three times in the back during the chaotic scene at a police roadblock Jan. 26. One bullet pierced his heart, an autopsy showed.
A prosecutor ruled the fatal shooting was legally justified, saying state law allows use of deadly force when officers believe a person is about to seriously injure or kill someone. Finicum kept moving his hands toward a pocket that contained a loaded handgun. Although he was shot from behind, Finicum had a trooper in front of him armed with a Taser who was thought to be in danger.
Finicum, 54, an Arizona rancher, was one of the leaders of the Jan. 2 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns.
Investigators gave no details to explain why the one FBI agent, a member of the Hostage Rescue Team, wouldn't report the two shots. They also didn't indicate what his four colleagues on the team did to warrant investigation other than saying it was related to conduct after the shooting.
"The question of who fired these shots has not been resolved," said Greg Bretzing, special agent in charge of the FBI in Portland. The federal agency is cooperating with the inspector general's investigation, he said at a news conference.
The revelation is certain to inflame suspicions about Finicum's death and shake confidence in the FBI, which came under intense fire for botched handling of violent sieges at Ruby Ridge in Idaho and Waco, Texas.
Some supporters have claimed Finicum was shot while surrendering, that he was unarmed and that he was shot nine times. The sheriff in neighboring Grant County, Glenn Palmer, described the police operation as an "ambush."
Finicum's family said in a statement a month ago that he was "executed in cold blood" and accused police agencies of deliberately misleading the public about what happened.
But investigators found that Oregon State Police and the FBI planned for days how to arrest the occupation leaders peacefully.
Investigators said they intend to release police reports, interview transcripts, photographs, the autopsy report and new video to allow the public to evaluate the police findings in Finicum's death. They didn't release the names of the involved troopers and FBI agents.
The shooting happened after police stopped a Jeep and a truck carrying the key organizers of the occupation along a remote stretch of U.S. 395 north of Burns.
Finicum was driving the truck that carried carried Ryan C. Bundy, 43, Ryan W. Payne, 32, Shawna Cox, 59, and Victoria Sharp, 18. In the Jeep behind them was driver Mark McConnell, 37, Brian D. Cavalier, 44, and Ammon Bundy, 40, the public face of the occupation. They were bound for a community meeting 100 miles north of the refuge in John Day.
Officer statements and cellphone video taken by Cox from inside the truck showed that Finicum repeatedly ignored police orders, first at the traffic stop and then after he crashed trying to elude officers. He nearly ran over an FBI agent before stalling in a roadside snowbank.
What happened in just seconds after that crash could lead to criminal charges against the FBI agents.
Cox's video showed that one shot hit the truck's left rear passenger window as Finicum stepped out. At the time, Finicum appeared to have his hands at least at shoulder height.
Investigators later established that the bullet entered the truck through the roof before shattering the window and concluded it was fired by an FBI agent. Another bullet from the same FBI agent apparently went wild and missed the truck altogether, the investigation showed.
Finicum then moved toward the back of his truck and out of view of Cox's phone, but she was still able to record what was said outside the truck.
Officers repeatedly ordered Finicum to get on the ground, according to the video. The investigation found that Finicum first faced a state trooper taking cover in nearby trees, then turned toward two troopers advancing from the highway.
Those two state troopers fired when Finicum turned back toward the trooper in the trees while reaching for a loaded 9 mm Ruger semi-automatic pistol inside his jacket, investigators said.
Finicum was struck from behind in the left shoulder, the left upper back and the right lower back, a state autopsy found. He died at the scene.
One of those two troopers moments earlier had fired at Finicum's truck as it barreled toward the police roadblock. That trooper hit the truck with three rounds, investigators concluded.
"All six shots fired by the Oregon State Police, the three into the truck and the three that struck Mr. Finicum, are justified," said Malheur County District Attorney Dan Norris in a prepared statement. He said the shots were "in fact, necessary."
Although Norris cleared the troopers of wrongdoing, the entire operation remains under a cloud with the disclosure of possible misconduct by the FBI agents. Law enforcement officials tried to blunt the impact, noting that investigating officers discovered and reported the alleged cover-up.
Just days before announcing the investigation results, hundreds of people gathered for weekend demonstrations scheduled in at least 35 states to protest Finicum's death. They repeated claims that police murdered the occupation spokesman and condemned what many said is the federal government's renewed effort to silence self-described patriots and militia members.
They were reacting in part to 12 more arrests last week related to the 2014 armed standoff in Nevada involving rancher Cliven Bundy, the father of Ammon and Ryan Bundy. So far, 37 people face federal charges related to the Oregon and Nevada standoffs.
The Finicum shooting investigation showed that the FBI and state police jointly planned the operation when they learned on Sunday, Jan. 24, through media reports that many of the occupation leaders would be on the road to John Day two days later.
State troopers were tasked with conducting the traffic stop at a pre-designated area, near a U.S. Forest Service road where police forces could wait out of sight. A squad of FBI agents and troopers was assigned to set up the road block roughly two miles north to contain any fleeing suspects and to stop other motorists from driving into the operation.
The teams expected Finicum to be armed. He was photographed repeatedly at the refuge with a holstered handgun.
Investigators determined that five of the eight people in the Jeep and truck carried loaded handguns. Detectives also recovered three rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammunition from the vehicles.
Ammon Bundy didn't mention the weapons in a jailhouse interview last week with The Oregonian/OregonLive. "We were headed with weapons of laptops, projectors and PA systems,'' Bundy said. "We were going peacefully to a community meeting.''
The reports showed that Bundy wasn't armed. He, Cavalier and McConnell surrendered without incident.
Finicum stopped his 2015 Dodge pickup a short distance away. Payne, the tactical leader of the occupation, surrendered after a state trooper fired a plastic tipped 40mm pepper spray round that struck the truck's canopy. The other four people stayed in the idling pickup and Finicum launched into a back-and-forth shouting match with troopers, the investigation found.
He told troopers he was leaving to reach the sheriff in John Day. He referred to Palmer six times at the initial stop.
"The sheriff is waiting for us," he said at one point. "I'm going over to meet the sheriff in Grant County," he said moments later.
He taunted troopers to shoot him or otherwise let him go to Palmer. The sheriff has become something of a national hero among anti-government protesters for appearing to support the armed occupiers and opposing federal government control of public land.
"You want my blood on your hands?" Finicum shouted out the window of his truck.
Finicum then sped away, hitting up to 70 mph, the investigative reports showed. Two FBI pickup trucks and one from the state police were parked in his path down the highway, with agents and troopers arrayed around them.
After Finicum crashed into the snowbank and left his truck, state troopers told him at least three times to get on the ground, according to the video. The trooper with the Taser stepped through the snow toward Finicum.
"He was attempting to control or subdue Mr. Finicum with less lethal force after Mr. Finicum refused orders to get on the ground," according to a prepared statement by Deschutes County Sheriff Shane Nelson, who led the investigation into the shooting.
Finicum repeatedly challenged police to shoot him as he moved toward them.
"You're going to have to shoot me," he said and was told again to get on the ground, the video showed.
"In the midst of that command, Mr. Finicum grabs his jacket with his left hand and reaches with his right hand for his gun," Nelson said.
That's when the two troopers behind Finicum fired the fatal shots.
"Mr. Finicum repeatedly and knowingly made choices that put him in this situation," Harney County District Attorney Tim Colahan said in a prepared statement. "It was not the outcome that any of us wanted but one he, alone, is responsible for."
Last edited by Valli6; 03-08-2016 at 02:32 PM.
Bull$#@!. Those two shots in particular may very well have contributed to his death. He had already given into a fight or flight response and chose flight. Once he was no longer able to flee he was exiting the vehicle with his hands raised and these two shots may very well have put him into a fight response.The bullets didn't hit Finicum and didn't contribute to his death,
On a side note, referencing the article, how the hell did the shot enter the roof and shatter the side window unless it was taken from the helicopter?
Last edited by phill4paul; 03-08-2016 at 02:34 PM.
Yeah, if you're being shot at indiscriminately BEFORE you get out, and AS you get out with your hands raised, it's reasonable to assume they are in the process of killing you. At the press conference one guy mentioned that Finicum was moving faster than it looked, as he moved away from the truck. They imply it was an aggressive move. But as you said earlier, he was probably trying to draw fire away from the others.
The roof shot is puzzling, but didn't that girl say she saw people in the trees? Could've come from there I suppose.
Last edited by Valli6; 03-08-2016 at 02:50 PM.
Definitely possible. Won't matter anyway. Nothing of it will come in theyre courts. Just ask Lon Horiuchi.
Last edited by phill4paul; 03-08-2016 at 03:09 PM.
Gut wrenching video. Brought tears to my eyes.
War; everything in the world wrong, evil and immoral combined into one and multiplied by millions.
This guy Les Zaitz seems to have some inside info. Because he is giving info that was not given at the presser today. Such as...
One investigator working on the task force pulled together by the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office reported that he had been told soon after the shooting that two state troopers and two FBI agents had fired. He said the FBI agents approached him later to say they hadn't fired their weapons.
In separate interviews later that night, those two FBI agents and the other three on duty at the shooting scene said they hadn't discharged their weapons and repeated these statements in a second round of interviews Feb. 5, investigators reported.
The second time, the agents insisted that an attorney be present and that they be given an opportunity to "reference their prior statements" if they were going to be asked questions they had already answered in the first interview.
LeVoy was going to the sheriff. WTF. Looks like murder to me. But of course it is not because the government says it is not.
For some reason I cannot rep you! Frustrating!! Thank you for caring about this. I log on to this forum and ALL I see in 'new posts' is Trump this, Trump that! I bet that makes Dr. Paul feel grrrrreat!!! Where are the original grassroots who cared about things like this?
http://truthinmedia.com/fbi-agents-u...icum-shooting/
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
If you're a member of fascist book, here's the swines' version juxtaposed with Shawna Cox's cell phone recording! https://www.facebook.com/42626965748...3295524445003/
Diversity finds unity in the message of freedom.
Dilige et quod vis fac. ~ Saint Augustine
"I'll believe in good cops when they start turning bad cops in."
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