A Muslim Ban Is Logical, Moral, And Even Libertarian

[r3volution 3.0]

What the public currently believes is not the point

It's what determines the outcome of elections.

...whether there ought to be elections is another matter.

and they are more classically liberal than the immigrants that are being brought in anyway

They're not.

It is possible and proper to have a liberty oriented culture and control immigration to keep from losing it, that is what we need to convert the voting public to believe in.

It's possible, via sufficient propaganda, to convert the public to vegetarian Zoroastrianism..

My point is that the practical - real, not hypothetical - effect of all the anti-immigrant talk is nothing but more statism across the board.

Who needs to abolish the Fed, cut spending, liberalize the economy, etc; it's the foreigners fault, don't you know?

...and DHS needs more funding too.

[Swordsmyth]

It's possible, via sufficient propaganda, to convert the public to vegetarian Zoroastrianism..

My point is that the practical - real, not hypothetical - effect of all the anti-immigrant talk is nothing but more statism across the board.

Who needs to abolish the Fed, cut spending, liberalize the economy, etc; it's the foreigners fault, don't you know?

...and DHS needs more funding too.

And the practical - real, not hypothetical - effect of bringing in hordes of statist/tribal/communist immigrants is much more statism across the board and a guarantee that liberty will be lost for generations if not forever, at least many Americans believe in freedom in the abstract and thus can be educated about what needs to be done far easier.

[r3volution 3.0]

And the practical - real, not hypothetical - effect of bringing in hordes of statist/tribal/communist immigrants is much more statism across the board and a guarantee that liberty will be lost for generations if not forever, at least many Americans believe in freedom in the abstract and thus can be educated about what needs to be done far easier.

No. 99% of Americans know *nothing* and act on emotion from their "education" or the media.

They're no better, nor worse, than the most illiterate third worlder.

We are where we are because of the voting of "real" Americans.

And the only reason we're better off than many (certainly not all) foreign states is that we don't get bombed; we do the bombing.

[Swordsmyth]

No. 99% of Americans know *nothing* and act on emotion from their "education" or the media.

They're no better, nor worse, than the most illiterate third worlder.

We are where we are because of the voting of "real" Americans.

And the only reason we're better off than many (certainly not all) foreign states is that we don't get bombed; we do the bombing.

If that were true we would be all out communist by now.

[r3volution 3.0]

If that were true we would be all out communist by now.

Wait a while.

[TheCount]

If that were true we would be all out communist by now.

Communism is not the only type of statism.

Infighting among the different types of American statists has meant that their progress in eliminating liberty has been spread over a wide variety of topics. Still, they've made consistent progress with the help of folks like you.

[Swordsmyth]

Communism is not the only type of statism.

Infighting among the different types of American statists has meant that their progress in eliminating liberty has been spread over a wide variety of topics. Still, they've made consistent progress with the help of folks like you.

LOL

[oyarde]

This thread should have included a poll .

[Identity]

Who needs to abolish the Fed, cut spending, liberalize the economy, etc; it's the foreigners fault, don't you know?

Yes, that's right. I can picture our Libertopia right now- hoards of Latin American and Saudis marching down the suburbs of the West, "Hey hey! Ho ho! The minimum wage has got to go! 19th century economics are the way to go! Ho ho! Hey hey!" Different men of religion, race, culture walking hand-in-hand singing kumbaya chanting, "Corporations shall overcome! Corporations shall overcome! Wage slavery for all!"

PS: No serious institution really cares about abolishing the Federal Reserve, we're thankful at this point to have such an institution- without it you would see a depression worse than that of the 30's. At best you have the Mises Institute that advocates for its abolishment but the opinion is rather fringe in the field of economics. Based upon the other things your types have to say about such matters it makes me much more inclined to side with the mainstream than Alex Jones-esque weirdos.

[Identity]

Real freedoms should apply to everybody. If you agree somebody should have their freedoms restricted you agree that you can/should have some of your freedoms taken too.

Real freedom is living a paleolithic hunter-gatherer lifestyle, free from obligation or commitment to anyone outside your immediate tribe/family. Contemporary civilization requires generations worth of infrastructure, State intervention, social cohesion, and shared interests & values. Accepting mass immigration or even just any immigration because "freedumb" has to be one of the strangest most half-cocked arguments I've ever come across. Although such hilarious insights do not seem to be atypical for your posts. Presupposing that society ought to have such simplistic notions (it doesn't, and most people would never agree with you) is unfounded.

[Zippyjuan]

Real freedom is living a paleolithic hunter-gatherer lifestyle, free from obligation or commitment to anyone outside your immediate tribe/family. Contemporary civilization requires generations worth of infrastructure, State intervention, social cohesion, and shared interests & values. Accepting mass immigration or even just any immigration because "freedumb" has to be one of the strangest most half-cocked arguments I've ever come across. Although such hilarious insights do not seem to be atypical for your posts. Presupposing that society ought to have such simplistic notions (it doesn't, and most people would never agree with you) is unfounded.

This isn't the world of 1000 years ago. People travel and mix and trade ideas and goods which benefit everybody. Even ancient tribes migrated and traded. But if you want to live in a log cabin in the forest by yourself you can still do that.

[Identity]

People travel and mix and trade ideas and goods which benefit everybody.

Global communication just dumbs down culture and appeals to the lowest common denominator. Democracy is merely a game of trying to simplify your snake oil onto a bumper sticker while keeping a steady amount of donor money. Then once in office voting along your party when it's politically convenient for you to do so. Hardly some grand enlightenment of humanity. Right now we don't have your ideal- rather we have one side which promotes globalism, oligarchy, and diversity. On the other side you have people maligned by the people, thrown into jail for expressing their opinions, beaten violently when peacefully assembling together, and censored by mainstream companies, government forces, and social circles. Not some stupid "Hey maaan let's sit down, smoke a blunt and talk about our ideas maaaan" type hippy notion that you're implying. Also, exchanging ideas is not always a good thing- ideas have consequences as I said earlier in the thread. Something that both sides (left & right) have difficulty accepting.

Even ancient tribes migrated and traded. But if you want to live in a log cabin in the forest by yourself you can still do that.

Strange how Japan, South Korea, Israel, and Hungary are perfectly fine without mass islamic migrations. I suppose the "ideas" of clitorectomies and honor killings have yet to benefit those countries.

[Zippyjuan]

Global communication just dumbs down culture and appeals to the lowest common denominator. Democracy is merely a game of trying to simplify your snake oil onto a bumper sticker while keeping a steady amount of donor money. Then once in office voting along your party when it's politically convenient for you to do so. Hardly some grand enlightenment of humanity. Right now we don't have your ideal- rather we have one side which promotes globalism, oligarchy, and diversity. On the other side you have people maligned by the people, thrown into jail for expressing their opinions, beaten violently when peacefully assembling together, and censored by mainstream companies, government forces, and social circles. Not some stupid "Hey maaan let's sit down, smoke a blunt and talk about our ideas maaaan" type hippy notion that you're implying. Also, exchanging ideas is not always a good thing- ideas have consequences as I said earlier in the thread. Something that both sides (left & right) have difficulty accepting.



Strange how Japan, South Korea, Israel, and Hungary are perfectly fine without mass islamic migrations. I suppose the "ideas" of clitorectomies and honor killings have yet to benefit those countries.

The US doesn't have "mass Islamic migrations" either. They are only about 1% of the population and less than ten percent of immigrants.

[timosman]

This isn't the world of 1000 years ago. People travel and mix and trade ideas and goods which benefit everybody. Even ancient tribes migrated and traded. But if you want to live in a log cabin in the forest by yourself you can still do that.

You have to worry about people on the other side of the globe. If you don't, they might not survive and you will be labeled an obstructionist.

[Identity]

The US doesn't have "mass Islamic migrations" either. They are only about 1% of the population.

Never said we did but this is also another lame tactic used. In one breath you'll praise diversity and the "hey maaan let's exchange our ideas" type ideal, in the next breath you'll say immigration is a non-issue and immigration rates will consistently remain the same so we shouldn't even be discussing the issue. Famously enough Ted Kennedy said something similar during the passing of the 1965 Immigration Act. Right now massive amounts of immigration have turned California and Virginia into blue-leaning states. If immigration continues consistently (unlikely seeing as how it benefits major religious players, Democratic politicians, and the capitalist donor class. We'll expect more immigration post-Trump if anything) then you're going to see a permanent Democratic majority. Perhaps the GOP will make a come-back, but it won't be in any recognizable form, i.e. one could expect a total overhaul in ideology, fiscal conservatism, and nativist skepticism. How is this beneficial for our interests and our society? I've yet to get a coherent answer from your side and expect none here.

[Zippyjuan]

At current rates, Islam could become a majority religion in the US in oh, maybe 100 years or so.

[r3volution 3.0]

Yes, that's right. I can picture our Libertopia right now- hoards of Latin American and Saudis marching down the suburbs of the West, "Hey hey! Ho ho! The minimum wage has got to go! 19th century economics are the way to go! Ho ho! Hey hey!" Different men of religion, race, culture walking hand-in-hand singing kumbaya chanting, "Corporations shall overcome! Corporations shall overcome! Wage slavery for all!"

PS: No serious institution really cares about abolishing the Federal Reserve, we're thankful at this point to have such an institution- without it you would see a depression worse than that of the 30's. At best you have the Mises Institute that advocates for its abolishment but the opinion is rather fringe in the field of economics. Based upon the other things your types have to say about such matters it makes me much more inclined to side with the mainstream than Alex Jones-esque weirdos.

QED

No. 99% of Americans know *nothing* and act on emotion from their "education" or the media.

They're no better, nor worse, than the most illiterate third worlder.

We are where we are because of the voting of "real" Americans.

[timosman]

At current rates, Islam could become a majority religion in the US in oh, maybe 100 years or so.

About the same time as you getting green bars.

[otherone]

QED

On one hand he describes how retarded the masses are, on the other, how his ideology is superior because the masses agree with him.

[Thor]

[enhanced_deficit]

Unintended side effects of muslim refugees exodus from Syria/Libya and other mideast war zones to Europe?


‘Pray for an Islamic Holocaust’: Tens of thousands from Europe’s far right march in Poland

By Avi Selk November 12

Thousands gathered in central Warsaw on Nov. 11 for a march organized by radical far-right groups. The march coincided with Poland’s Independence Day. (Młodzież Wszechpolska)

The official celebration of Poland’s 99th independence day proceeded innocuously, with ceremonies in the capital. There was even a visit from the European Council’s internationalist president, who insisted to Politico that Saturday’s festivities would proceed “with a smile on our face and with joy in our hearts.”
But for blocks and blocks and blocks beyond the central towers of Warsaw, a much larger crowd swelled beneath a cloud of red smoke. The tens of thousands of people came from across Poland and beyond, and reporters documented their signs:
“Clean Blood,” as seen by Politico.
“Pray for an Islamic Holocaust,” per CNN.
“White Europe” streaked across another banner, the Associated Press reported — as about 60,000 people chanted and marched through Warsaw in an annual gathering of Europe’s far-right movements, which have by now grown to dwarf the official version of Poland's independence day.
[Trump was first U.S. president to visit Warsaw without visiting the Warsaw Ghetto since 1989]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d=pm_world_pop

[Swordsmyth]

Unintended side effects of muslim refugees exodus from Syria/Libya and other mideast war zones to Europe?


‘Pray for an Islamic Holocaust’: Tens of thousands from Europe’s far right march in Poland

By Avi Selk November 12

Thousands gathered in central Warsaw on Nov. 11 for a march organized by radical far-right groups. The march coincided with Poland’s Independence Day. (Młodzież Wszechpolska)

The official celebration of Poland’s 99th independence day proceeded innocuously, with ceremonies in the capital. There was even a visit from the European Council’s internationalist president, who insisted to Politico that Saturday’s festivities would proceed “with a smile on our face and with joy in our hearts.”
But for blocks and blocks and blocks beyond the central towers of Warsaw, a much larger crowd swelled beneath a cloud of red smoke. The tens of thousands of people came from across Poland and beyond, and reporters documented their signs:
“Clean Blood,” as seen by Politico.
“Pray for an Islamic Holocaust,” per CNN.
“White Europe” streaked across another banner, the Associated Press reported — as about 60,000 people chanted and marched through Warsaw in an annual gathering of Europe’s far-right movements, which have by now grown to dwarf the official version of Poland's independence day.
[Trump was first U.S. president to visit Warsaw without visiting the Warsaw Ghetto since 1989]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d=pm_world_pop

I said "Eurabia" was intended to provoke this kind of backlash and now it has, I also said if moderate reasonable measures were not taken that the plan would succeed, if you want to see this kind of thing in America keep flooding us with barbarian hordes legal and illegal, people who are pushed too far tend to overreact.

[Identity]

On one hand he describes how retarded the masses are, on the other, how his ideology is superior because the masses agree with him.

Way to miss my point- you appeal to authority with the typical corny "You dun no' nuddin' about economics" arguments while ignoring the general consensus within academia. Silliness. If you had some sort of authority in the matter (i.e. broad consensus within multiple schools within the field) then I could see your argument having a semblance of authenticity behind it. We have PhD's in economics who subscribe to Libertarian Socialism- why am I wrong to cite them and rely upon their ideas yet someone quote-mining typical Austrian talking points is valid?

What Revolution was doing was just throwing out buzzwords with no explanation behind them: don't focus on the real issue of immigration and the blue takeover of America- better to just focus on da Federal Reserve man! [Hey did you know the Federal Reserve isn't even federal??? Alex Jones!11!!!] No one is going to be convinced with that level of retardedness and it's not a feasible strategy going forward. Good luck trying to abolish the Fed or any other comical Libertarian ideal when the Democrats have a permanent majority in the Congress and the party is run by oligarchs. We'll focus on real issues like immigration which are winning issues and necessary to tackle if we wish to keep America functioning properly.

[kahless]

Unintended side effects of muslim refugees exodus from Syria/Libya and other mideast war zones to Europe?
‘Pray for an Islamic Holocaust’: Tens of thousands from Europe’s far right march in Poland

By Avi Selk November 12

Thousands gathered in central Warsaw on Nov. 11 for a march organized by radical far-right groups. The march coincided with Poland’s Independence Day. (Młodzież Wszechpolska)

The official celebration of Poland’s 99th independence day proceeded innocuously, with ceremonies in the capital. There was even a visit from the European Council’s internationalist president, who insisted to Politico that Saturday’s festivities would proceed “with a smile on our face and with joy in our hearts.”
But for blocks and blocks and blocks beyond the central towers of Warsaw, a much larger crowd swelled beneath a cloud of red smoke. The tens of thousands of people came from across Poland and beyond, and reporters documented their signs:
“Clean Blood,” as seen by Politico.
“Pray for an Islamic Holocaust,” per CNN.
“White Europe” streaked across another banner, the Associated Press reported — as about 60,000 people chanted and marched through Warsaw in an annual gathering of Europe’s far-right movements, which have by now grown to dwarf the official version of Poland's independence day.
[Trump was first U.S. president to visit Warsaw without visiting the Warsaw Ghetto since 1989]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d=pm_world_pop

No doubt there is push back but as usual for this particular article CNN and WAPO had to use lies again to push their agenda.

CORRECTION: Earlier versions of this article — including the original headline — cited a CNN report that said a “Pray for an Islamic Holocaust” banner was displayed at the weekend march in Warsaw. CNN has since corrected its story and removed its reference to the banner. A similar banner was hung in another Polish city in 2015, according to local reports, but not at Saturday's march. This post has been updated.

[Ender]

Way to miss my point- you appeal to authority with the typical corny "You dun no' nuddin' about economics" arguments while ignoring the general consensus within academia. Silliness. If you had some sort of authority in the matter (i.e. broad consensus within multiple schools within the field) then I could see your argument having a semblance of authenticity behind it. We have PhD's in economics who subscribe to Libertarian Socialism- why am I wrong to cite them and rely upon their ideas yet someone quote-mining typical Austrian talking points is valid?

What Revolution was doing was just throwing out buzzwords with no explanation behind them: don't focus on the real issue of immigration and the blue takeover of America- better to just focus on da Federal Reserve man! [Hey did you know the Federal Reserve isn't even federal??? Alex Jones!11!!!] No one is going to be convinced with that level of retardedness and it's not a feasible strategy going forward. Good luck trying to abolish the Fed or any other comical Libertarian ideal when the Democrats have a permanent majority in the Congress and the party is run by oligarchs. We'll focus on real issues like immigration which are winning issues and necessary to tackle if we wish to keep America functioning properly.

Dude- maybe you ought to read Ron Paul about ending the FED. The money problem is pretty much the basis of everything else is wrong in the US- FIX IT, get rid of entitlements, and immigration is no longer a problem.

And there is no difference in the "blue & "red"- just different buzz words to make their followers happy.

[r3volution 3.0]

I said "Eurabia" was intended to provoke this kind of backlash and now it has, I also said if moderate reasonable measures were not taken that the plan would succeed, if you want to see this kind of thing in America keep flooding us with barbarian hordes legal and illegal, people who are pushed too far tend to overreact.

What's going to bring this to America is precisely the narrative you're promoting.

"To stop the rise of radical nationalism, we have to become radical nationalists" is an exceptionally preposterous argument.

Way to miss my point- you appeal to authority with the typical corny "You dun no' nuddin' about economics" arguments while ignoring the general consensus within academia. Silliness. If you had some sort of authority in the matter (i.e. broad consensus within multiple schools within the field) then I could see your argument having a semblance of authenticity behind it. We have PhD's in economics who subscribe to Libertarian Socialism- why am I wrong to cite them and rely upon their ideas yet someone quote-mining typical Austrian talking points is valid?

Ah, well, the academic consensus, yes..

What Revolution was doing was just throwing out buzzwords with no explanation behind them: don't focus on the real issue of immigration and the blue takeover of America- better to just focus on da Federal Reserve man! [Hey did you know the Federal Reserve isn't even federal??? Alex Jones!11!!!] No one is going to be convinced with that level of retardedness and it's not a feasible strategy going forward. Good luck trying to abolish the Fed or any other comical Libertarian ideal when the Democrats have a permanent majority in the Congress and the party is run by oligarchs. We'll focus on real issues like immigration which are winning issues and necessary to tackle if we wish to keep America functioning properly.

The academic consensus, I presume?

...on another note, what exactly are you - a self-identified socialist - complaining about anyway?

The progress of socialism in the West is too slow for you, or what?

If I were a socialist, I'd take a look at the news once a month, say "sweet" and go play golf.

[timosman]

[timosman]

In 1873, the British somewhat refined this idea by taking it out of the goat first.

[euphemia]

Pointing out one more time that Islam is fundamentally opposed to a liberty way of life. In my opinion, a Muslim ban is not the same as unlimited immigration. There are many people groups easily absorbed into American life. Muslims demand their own way, no matter what.

Just something to think about.

[Thor]

Pointing out one more time that Islam is fundamentally opposed to a liberty way of life. In my opinion, a Muslim ban is not the same as unlimited immigration. There are many people groups easily absorbed into American life. Muslims demand their own way, no matter what.

Just something to think about.

I have thought about it, and agree whole-heartedly.