Bring more foreign workers in, but legally

[mtr1979]

Bring more workers in, but do it legally. This is a talking point I always see conservatives talking about.

That is happening and I have firsthand knowledge. I have a coworker who is of Mexican decent. His mom works at Tyson in Dakota City, NE. Apparently they had a raffle at Tyson. If you were one of the people whose name got picked. You get to pick 5 people you know from Mexico or wherever and Tyson will get those people papers so they can at Tyson. My coworker's uncle is moving up here now. In Mexico he built houses now he has to come up here and do knife work on the line to me that is a waste of the guy's talent.

Back in the day a story like this would have angered me. I'm actually kind of ashamed of my old ways. I honestly don't have a problem with this anymore, and if I did have a problem so what just a waste of my energy.

People against foreign workers do you know most companies are on the brink of mission failure? I can only speak for where I work and people I know, but anyway. The company where I work can't get new people. Some of our workers have been felons who lasted a couple of weeks and a couple of weeks later you see they are wanted by US Marshalls. Others think they are slick doing drugs and drinking at work. One of our newest employees is a serial arsonist just released after serving 1.5 years on a 5 year sentence. Same guy walks around talking to himself.

It would be different if the job was terrible and we didn't make anything, but the pay is good. I have 2 cars, 2 motorcycles, and a house. People just don't want to work. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I would rather work with illegal immigrants or foreigners on papers than some of my current coworkers. I honestly have more in common with some latin american as an Irish Catholic than some drugged out, video game playing, porn addict, zombie which in my experience is most americans.

Feel free to totally sh!t on me, trash me, or whatever. None of what I wrote above matters it is already over. Even in a place like Nebraska it is too late. What do I know?

[PAF]

I agree with everything that you said, except for the part about making them "legal".



Leaving them "undocumented" preserves their individual rights and ours, ie: The Bill of Rights which we so much want to protect. Unless they have been suspected/convicted of a crime and can face their accuser, there is no reason for the Fed/MIC to build holding cells, pack the courts, hire Federal goons such as ICE and DHS Agents, checkpoints (Constitution-Free Zone) around the entire country, and utilize Eminent Domain to take rightful property from ranchers, resorts and splitting cities and towns into No-Mans Land, among many other unintended consequences which directly violate the Bill of Rights. Not to mention what it costs the tax paying people to implement all of the above, we are essentially paying hard-earned money to CANCEL the Bill of Rights and lock the chains around our own throats.

[Brian4Liberty]

...
The company where I work can't get new people.
...

But we know that there are plenty of able-bodied people already here that could potentially do the work. Why aren't they working? That is your root problem.

Bringing in more workers is just a Band-Aid on a festering wound, a disease that in one generation will spread to the children of those workers.

[CaptUSA]

I agree with everything that you said, except for the part about making them "legal".

Leaving them "undocumented" preserves their individual rights and ours

Can I become undocumented, please?!

[PAF]

But we know that there are plenty of able-bodied people already here that could potentially do the work. Why aren't they working? That is your root problem.

Bringing in more workers is just a Band-Aid on a festering wound, a disease that in one generation will spread to the children of those workers.

The company that wants to produce/profit needs people willing to work. A number of able-bodied people living in Section 8 (legal voters) would rather kill you than even hear you mention the word "job".

Should the company/board have a Dr. Phil meeting, or should it get busy and worry about producing to fulfill supply/demand?

Meantime, people like us [and the voters] should re-examine the Welfare system. Even keeping the current Welfare system intact, STOP DEMANDING IMMIGRANTS TO BECOME "LEGAL" is a free solution which already exists [see above pic]. Hatred, shifting blame back and forth between parties, lining the pockets of industrial complex will never solve the problem.

[PAF]

Can I become undocumented, please?!

Once you're in the system, good luck on that. Jealousy might be why many people don't want to entertain the idea, but jealousy still doesn't solve the problem.

[Invisible Man]

Can I become undocumented, please?!

I don't see why not.

[PAF]

I don't see why not.

Technically you can... once you pay all the fees to .GOV. But you are still recorded in the system.

[Brian4Liberty]

The company that wants to produce/profit needs people willing to work. A number of able-bodied people living in Section 8 (legal voters) would rather kill you than even hear you mention the word "job".

Should the company/board have a Dr. Phil meeting, or should it get busy and worry about producing to fulfill supply/demand?

Meantime, people like us [and the voters] should re-examine the Welfare system. Even keeping the current Welfare system intact, STOP DEMANDING IMMIGRANTS TO BECOME "LEGAL" is a free solution which already exists [see above pic]. Hatred, shifting blame back and forth between parties, lining the pockets of industrial complex will never solve the problem.

Re-examine the welfare system when we get to it? Keep it going and expanding until then? Then there is no incentive for anyone to fix the problem.

End the welfare system first. That used to be a standard libertarian position.

[tod evans]

But we know that there are plenty of able-bodied people already here that could potentially do the work. Why aren't they working? That is your root problem.

Bringing in more workers is just a Band-Aid on a festering wound, a disease that in one generation will spread to the children of those workers.

The company that wants to produce/profit needs people willing to work. A number of able-bodied people living in Section 8 (legal voters) would rather kill you than even hear you mention the word "job".

Should the company/board have a Dr. Phil meeting, or should it get busy and worry about producing to fulfill supply/demand?

Meantime, people like us [and the voters] should re-examine the Welfare system. Even keeping the current Welfare system intact, STOP DEMANDING IMMIGRANTS TO BECOME "LEGAL" is a free solution which already exists [see above pic]. Hatred, shifting blame back and forth between parties, lining the pockets of industrial complex will never solve the problem.

Businesses are not suffering enough.

The 'problem' people stay home and suck up free $#@! while the complacent/hardworking newcomers bust their collective asses for business.

Soooo, you've got happy businesses, happy free-loaders and happy newcomers all profiting from the independent/self employed crowd...

Even the business employees are happy because the contrarians from section 8 aren't underfoot and the newcomers actually pull their own weight. (see OP)

Then...........There's the leach class ie; government employees who profit off both the section 8 and newcomer crowd, because without them the leaches wouldn't have their government job.

Way too much for me to keep track of let alone pay for.

[tod evans]

Re-examine the welfare system when we get to it? Keep it going and expanding until then? Then there is no incentive for anyone to fix the problem.

End the welfare system first. That used to be a standard libertarian position.

The only way is to starve it to death and we're starting to get a glimpse of what that looks like with the devalued currency...

Count me in for the ending all free $#@! programs right now.

[tod evans]

Bring more workers in, but do it legally. This is a talking point I always see conservatives talking about.

That is happening and I have firsthand knowledge. I have a coworker who is of Mexican decent. His mom works at Tyson in Dakota City, NE. Apparently they had a raffle at Tyson. If you were one of the people whose name got picked. You get to pick 5 people you know from Mexico or wherever and Tyson will get those people papers so they can at Tyson. My coworker's uncle is moving up here now. In Mexico he built houses now he has to come up here and do knife work on the line to me that is a waste of the guy's talent.

Back in the day a story like this would have angered me. I'm actually kind of ashamed of my old ways. I honestly don't have a problem with this anymore, and if I did have a problem so what just a waste of my energy.

People against foreign workers do you know most companies are on the brink of mission failure? I can only speak for where I work and people I know, but anyway. The company where I work can't get new people. Some of our workers have been felons who lasted a couple of weeks and a couple of weeks later you see they are wanted by US Marshalls. Others think they are slick doing drugs and drinking at work. One of our newest employees is a serial arsonist just released after serving 1.5 years on a 5 year sentence. Same guy walks around talking to himself.

It would be different if the job was terrible and we didn't make anything, but the pay is good. I have 2 cars, 2 motorcycles, and a house. People just don't want to work. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I would rather work with illegal immigrants or foreigners on papers than some of my current coworkers. I honestly have more in common with some latin american as an Irish Catholic than some drugged out, video game playing, porn addict, zombie which in my experience is most americans.

Feel free to totally sh!t on me, trash me, or whatever. None of what I wrote above matters it is already over. Even in a place like Nebraska it is too late. What do I know?

Basically it's okay with you that both government and section 8 grow and flourish so long as foreigners can make your life easier?

Really there is no free lunch and by supporting freeloaders, even tacitly, that's what you're advocating for.

[PAF]

Re-examine the welfare system when we get to it? Keep it going and expanding until then? Then there is no incentive for anyone to fix the problem.

End the welfare system first. That used to be a standard libertarian position.

Wait... let me wave my magic wand.

Yes, I fully agree that the Welfare system needs to end. But I get my ass kicked from here to the moon with everybody telling me that is not a "practical" solution and it will never happen.

I have presented a solution in Post #2 that is free and already exists. The first thing that people who preach "liberty! freedom! stop giving them welfare!" should do is STOP requiring them to sign up "legally" [see OP]. That solution will not only save money from them from signing up for .gov programs, but also save money by slowing the growth of Fed.gov and the industrial complexes, which also will restore at least some of our Bills of Rights.

Geez, Brian, give me a break lol

[PAF]

Businesses are not suffering enough.

The 'problem' people stay home and suck up free $#@! while the complacent/hardworking newcomers bust their collective asses for business.

Soooo, you've got happy businesses, happy free-loaders and happy newcomers all profiting from the independent/self employed crowd...

Even the business employees are happy because the contrarians from section 8 aren't underfoot and the newcomers actually pull their own weight. (see OP)

Then...........There's the leach class ie; government employees who profit off both the section 8 and newcomer crowd, because without them the leaches wouldn't have their government job.

Way too much for me to keep track of let alone pay for.

A lot of the problem is that many companies and corporations are signatory to the Great Reset. The partial list is here, and it keeps growing. So we are indeed between a rock and a hard place.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...Reset+partners

[oyarde]

Hate to bring the bad news but the US has plenty of workers , we just have a dismal work force participation rate . Think of it as dismal as the avg GDP over the past 21 yrs ( 1.9 percent and going down while the debt increased 450 percent) . Once you accept it is that dismal you are getting close . Work force participation is 62.4 percent. In a country where only about 20 percent pay more tax FRN's than recieve. This cannot be salvaged. Business cannot grow at an acceptable level due to govt . Adding a few more foreigners here will help nothing , once this collapses they will have been better off to stay where they were.

[PAF]

Hate to bring te bad news but te US has plenty of workers , we just have a dismal work force participation rate . Think of it as dismal as the avg GDP over the past 21 yrs ( 1.9 percent and going down while the debt increased 450 percent) . Once you accept it is that dismal you are getting close .

Every Empire ends. We are stuck in it.

And who's to blame? The People. On BOTH sides. Even though they blame each other.

[oyarde]

Every Empire ends. We are stuck in it.

And who's to blame? The People. On BOTH sides. Even though they blame each other.

This is definately on the way out

[Brian4Liberty]

Wait... let me wave my magic wand.

Yes, I fully agree that the Welfare system needs to end. But I get my ass kicked from here to the moon with everybody telling me that is not a "practical" solution and it will never happen.

I have presented a solution in Post #2 that is free and already exists. The first thing that people who preach "liberty! freedom! stop giving them welfare!" should do is STOP requiring them to sign up "legally" [see OP]. That solution will not only save money from them from signing up for .gov programs, but also save money by slowing the growth of Fed.gov and the industrial complexes, which also will restore at least some of our Bills of Rights.

Geez, Brian, give me a break lol

Your "solution" is already the de facto standard. Tens if not hundreds of millions of people who are not citizens, living and many working in the US, many collecting some variation of welfare.

It's a matter of priorities. I am concerned about fiscal conservatism and the destruction of our society created by the moral hazard of welfare.

Your first priority seems to be unlimited global migration.

[PAF]

Your "solution" is already the de facto standard. Tens if not hundreds of millions of people who are not citizens, living and many working in the US, many collecting some variation of welfare.

It's a matter of priorities. I am concerned about fiscal conservatism and the destruction of our society created by the moral hazard of welfare.

Your first priority seems to be unlimited global migration.

Priorities? In your own Post #9, you referenced "libertarian position".

My position is the libertarian one, where individual [natural] rights are paramount, including the right to travel freely. There has been an influx of people across all lands throughout the world, some go here, some go there, some go elsewhere and over there too. My idea of liberty does not entail restricting another's movement or infringing upon his/her life.

You show me data/sources, where "undocumented" people, who have no Government Issued Card, is drawing off of Welfare, Unemployment Insurance, SNAP, etc.

De facto standard? While all the rage is make them "legal"? As they are funneled in through militarized gates and processed into the system? Brought to you by Walls on both sides? Papers please, or we will hold you until you are?

For you to claim that you are a fiscal conservative and concerned about the erosion of the Bill of Rights, it seems you do a very good job of countering a "solution" that does support the libertarian position of which you referred.

Tell me, Brian, what is your quick, fast and easy solution? One that might "unite" more conservatives together who are not libertarians, but not neocons and statists either? Ones that somehow wrongly believe that making them "legal" is the better and "legal" approach. I will sit here and wait.

[Swordsmyth]

And the Great Replacement continues while the rich profit from it all the way until the communist revolution.

The American working class has been deliberately destroyed and every time they start to make some progress the rich and their camp followers declare an emergency and find some new way to put them down and get them ever closer to being at the same slave labor level as Chinese peasants.

Anyone who wants to bring in more unamerican immigrants is an enemy of America and liberty.

[Swordsmyth]

I wouldn't mind libertarians (and Neocons like the Eyepatch McCain fan) selling their own birthright for a fist full of (soon to be inflated away) dollars but because of how the world works they are selling mine as well.
That is theft.

[Swordsmyth]

Your first priority seems to be unlimited global migration.

It seems that way because it is.

[Swordsmyth]

Basically it's okay with you that both government and section 8 grow and flourish so long as foreigners can make your life easier?

Really there is no free lunch and by supporting freeloaders, even tacitly, that's what you're advocating for.

And that's exactly what it is.
The newcomers will vote for ever more socialism and welfare and start using it themselves soon enough if they don't just get it immediately as most do.

[mtr1979]

This is a great conversation. I started this thread with a weary heart. I hate to be blackpilled, but I actually leave my house everyday and experience the real world. I get the sense that we are accelerating to the crash.

I'm actually surprised someone didn't drop into the thread and say build a wall.

I can honestly say we are past the point of no return.
With that said what could we have done to prevent it?
Did we lose our connection with God?
Could we have prevented cultural marxists from infiltrating our Institutions?
Should we have ended the drug war?
Should we have tried to fight the cartels and prevented Mexico from becoming a failed state?

[tod evans]

This is a great conversation. I started this thread with a weary heart. I hate to be blackpilled, but I actually leave my house everyday and experience the real world. I get the sense that we are accelerating to the crash.


With that said what could we have done to prevent it?

Simple answer, rein in government.

The country can still be saved but it'll hurt.

Stop all domestic spending until the 'debt' is paid in full.
Bring home all soldiers and military equipment until/unless congress declares a war with an objective.
Disband all alphabet agencies until there's money saved to fund them and only reinstate those that the public and constitution approve of.

According to Google right now each person is liable for over $90k on the national debt.
'We' can't afford this government and her programs!

[Invisible Man]

Technically you can... once you pay all the fees to .GOV. But you are still recorded in the system.

Recorded in the system using what? SSN? Driver's License? Birth certificate? In other words, records that you can just stop using and claim not to have?

Granted, if they have your finger prints or DNA, that's a different story. And maybe they have facial recognition stuff now that adds another more difficult to avoid layer. But even all these things can be gotten around.

That is, if someone honestly believes that they would be better off living the life of an undocumented immigrant. But for all the griping about all their alleged unfair advantages, nobody really believes that.

[PAF]

Recorded in the system using what? SSN? Driver's License? Birth certificate? In other words, records that you can just stop using and claim not to have?

Granted, if they have your finger prints or DNA, that's a different story. And maybe they have facial recognition stuff now that adds another more difficult to avoid layer. But even all these things can be gotten around.

That is, if someone honestly believes that they would be better off living the life of an undocumented immigrant. But for all the griping about all their alleged unfair advantages, nobody really believes that.

Stand and speak if/when you think it can make a difference in somebody's life to keep the spark lit, but try to stay private and go unnoticed living your own day to day life.

[PAF]

Recorded in the system using what? SSN? Driver's License? Birth certificate? In other words, records that you can just stop using and claim not to have?

Granted, if they have your finger prints or DNA, that's a different story. And maybe they have facial recognition stuff now that adds another more difficult to avoid layer. But even all these things can be gotten around.

That is, if someone honestly believes that they would be better off living the life of an undocumented immigrant. But for all the griping about all their alleged unfair advantages, nobody really believes that.

Stand and speak if/when you think it can make a difference in somebody's life to keep the spark lit, but try to stay private and go unnoticed living your own day to day life.

[Swordsmyth]

Simple answer, rein in government.

The country can still be saved but it'll hurt.

Stop all domestic spending until the 'debt' is paid in full.
Bring home all soldiers and military equipment until/unless congress declares a war with an objective.
Disband all alphabet agencies until there's money saved to fund them and only reinstate those that the public and constitution approve of.

According to Google right now each person is liable for over $90k on the national debt.
'We' can't afford this government and her programs!

Default on the debt and cut spending to the bone.

[Swordsmyth]

This is a great conversation. I started this thread with a weary heart. I hate to be blackpilled, but I actually leave my house everyday and experience the real world. I get the sense that we are accelerating to the crash.

I'm actually surprised someone didn't drop into the thread and say build a wall.

I can honestly say we are past the point of no return.
With that said what could we have done to prevent it?
Did we lose our connection with God?
Could we have prevented cultural marxists from infiltrating our Institutions?
Should we have ended the drug war?
Should we have tried to fight the cartels and prevented Mexico from becoming a failed state?

We could have built a wall and put the military on the border, we could have kept immigration at a trickle, we could have kept tariffs and never opened up trade with communist slave labor countries.

We could have expelled the commies who were already here.