The Backfire Effect

[Intoxiklown]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

The backfire effect occurs when, in the face of contradictory evidence, established beliefs do not change but actually get stronger. The effect has been demonstrated experimentally in psychological tests, where subjects are given data that either reinforces or goes against their existing biases — and in most cases people can be shown to increase their confidence in their prior position regardless of the evidence they were faced with.

In a pessimistic sense, this makes most refutations useless.

Causes

Persecution complex: People of all stripes all too often fear a crusade against their beliefs, and may group together people who question their beliefs to make a big, scary monster. For example, fundamentalist Christians sometimes dismiss atheists arguments as "from Satan himself", and people as a whole have a tendency to disregard sources that they disagree with.

How it gets exploited

By knowing that one can profit from perpetuating a falsehood, one can exploit the backfire effect to one's own advantage. This happens for example when corporations know that they are doing something that is harmful but nonetheless promote denialism. The corporation can even publicly admit that their product is harmful while simultaneously covertly funding astroturf groups that promote the denialist message. Examples of this coverup behavior include the asbestos industry, the tobacco industry, the sugar industry, and the fossil fuel industry with regard to global warming. The exploitation is not limited to industries, but also includes fundamentalist Christians (creationism) and alternative medicine promoters (anti-vaccination movement).


Pommer's Law

Pommer's Law is an interpretation of how ubiquitous idiocy is on the internet. It was proffered by Rob Pommer in early 2007 at RationalWiki 1.0. It states:

“”A person's mind can be changed by reading information on the internet. The nature of this change will be: From having no opinion to having a wrong opinion.

This law has a few exceptions, of course. Some people may well find extra information on the internet that counteracts their prejudice and turn it into something more positive and based in reality. However, Pommer's Law is a commentary on the amount of $#@! out there and the number of people who will believe it at the drop of a hat, which is probably a far, far higher figure.




These are a few of the things that pop in my head when I see people saying complete horse $#@! like eating garlic will reverse Alzheimer's or that antibiotics are a scam.

[donnay]

These are a few of the things that pop in my head when I see people saying complete horse $#@! like eating garlic will reverse Alzheimer's or that antibiotics are a scam.

Wow who said garlic reverses Alzheimer's?

Who said antibiotics are a scam?

[Intoxiklown]

Wow who said garlic reverses Alzheimer's?

Who said antibiotics are a scam?

The garlic is anecdotal for anything along the lines of "eat this food" or "take this supplement and/or herb" citing they'll either prevent or revere Alzheimer's. Don't get me wrong because a healthy diet is very much part of recommended steps to help manage symptoms, as of yet we have zero clue as to what causes it...which means we have zero clue as to how to prevent it. And while diet can help the body with neurogenesis (neuron growth in the brain), the body cannot keep up woth the cell death caused by Alzheimer's.

The antibiotics line is from a moron I was talking to on Facebook earlier. Although to their credit they hold firm in their argument that Big Pharma pushes bad meds to make money across the board instead of picking and choosing when they want to claim ,medicine is bad or not

[donnay]

The garlic is anecdotal for anything along the lines of "eat this food" or "take this supplement and/or herb" citing they'll either prevent or revere Alzheimer's. Don't get me wrong because a healthy diet is very much part of recommended steps to help manage symptoms, as of yet we have zero clue as to what causes it...which means we have zero clue as to how to prevent it. And while diet can help the body with neurogenesis (neuron growth in the brain), the body cannot keep up woth the cell death caused by Alzheimer's.

The antibiotics line is from a moron I was talking to on Facebook earlier. Although to their credit they hold firm in their argument that Big Pharma pushes bad meds to make money across the board instead of picking and choosing when they want to claim ,medicine is bad or not

Garlic (Allium sativum) in of itself is an antibiotic.

Medical Herbalism
http://www.medherb.com/Materia_Medic...Properties.htm

[dannno]

These are a few of the things that pop in my head when I see people saying complete horse $#@! like eating garlic will reverse Alzheimer's or that antibiotics are a scam.

LOL, ya, because only manufactured pharmaceuticals that can be patented are effective treatments, right

First thing you have to learn is that there is a lot of $#@! out there that is cheap or virtually free, but the FDA won't allow you to say it is an effective treatment because tens of millions of dollars of research hasn't been done on it.. Because nobody wants to pay tens of millions of dollars to find out that garlic is hypothetically an effective treatment for Alzheimer's because nobody could recuperate the tens of millions of dollars that they spent on the testing because you can't patent garlic..

Once you understand this basic concept you can look at the situation with a bit more clarity and reason.

First of all, drugs that the drug companies produce are often not very effective at treating what they are supposed to treat. SOMETIMES they are, but often times they barely help and have all sorts of side effects.

There are many natural treatments that work just as well if not better, but since they can't be patented nobody wants to invest the money in doing the testing so the FDA will tell you it is ok and it doesn't make you feel like a kook to say that something natural helps some ailment.



Turns out, cannabis helps reverse Alzheimer's.


Experts: Cannabis Could Help Cure Alzheimer's If Lawmakers Would Chill Out

https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwb.../#698f3413f892



So no, garlic, doesn't cure Alzheimer's, cannabis does.

And antibiotics are not a scam, but they are overused as medical literature often points out.

[dannno]

These are a few of the things that pop in my head when I see people saying complete horse $#@! like eating garlic will reverse Alzheimer's or that antibiotics are a scam.

^FYI you are one of the least rational people on this forum, highly prone to using lies to get your point across.

You are really not the best person to be giving lessons or teaching about rationality and psychology.

[Intoxiklown]

LOL, ya, because only manufactured pharmaceuticals that can be patented are effective treatments, right

First thing you have to learn is that there is a lot of $#@! out there that is cheap or virtually free, but the FDA won't allow you to say it is an effective treatment because tens of millions of dollars of research hasn't been done on it.. Because nobody wants to pay tens of millions of dollars to find out that garlic is hypothetically an effective treatment for Alzheimer's because nobody could recuperate the tens of millions of dollars that they spent on the testing because you can't patent garlic..

Once you understand this basic concept you can look at the situation with a bit more clarity and reason.

First of all, drugs that the drug companies produce are often not very effective at treating what they are supposed to treat. SOMETIMES they are, but often times they barely help and have all sorts of side effects.

There are many natural treatments that work just as well if not better, but since they can't be patented nobody wants to invest the money in doing the testing so the FDA will tell you it is ok and it doesn't make you feel like a kook to say that something natural helps some ailment.



Turns out, cannabis helps reverse Alzheimer's.


Experts: Cannabis Could Help Cure Alzheimer's If Lawmakers Would Chill Out

https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwb.../#698f3413f892



So no, garlic, doesn't cure Alzheimer's, cannabis does.

And antibiotics are not a scam, but they are overused as medical literature often points out.

And yet nowhere in my life have I ever said that natural remedies aren't beneficial. But I'm the irrational one who lies?

Have you actually read the article you linked? Cannabis is being found to help with certain causation factors of certain types of dementia, but in no way cures Alzheimer's. But I'm the irrational one who lies?

FYI....you are doing like other "Big Pharma wants to rape our cattle and burn our churches" crowd by taking things to their most extreme points in the most hyperbolic of vitriol. I understand fully how drug companies operate with their bottom line as the driving factor for their decisions. Please point out one time I have ever said they were in any way benevolent.

All you've done is lump me in with some huge conspiracy when in fact I always point out that both have their pros and cons (big pharma and natural). Let me dumb that down for you as I feel you'll need it.....you're lying to mold what I've said to fit your narrative of things as you've come to see them.

[dannno]

And yet nowhere in my life have I ever said that natural remedies aren't beneficial. But I'm the irrational one who lies?

Have you actually read the article you linked? Cannabis is being found to help with certain causation factors of certain types of dementia, but in no way cures Alzheimer's. But I'm the irrational one who lies?

FYI....you are doing like other "Big Pharma wants to rape our cattle and burn our churches" crowd by taking things to their most extreme points in the most hyperbolic of vitriol. I understand fully how drug companies operate with their bottom line as the driving factor for their decisions. Please point out one time I have ever said they were in any way benevolent.

All you've done is lump me in with some huge conspiracy when in fact I always point out that both have their pros and cons (big pharma and natural). Let me dumb that down for you as I feel you'll need it.....you're lying to mold what I've said to fit your narrative of things as you've come to see them.

LOL, what a joke.. Cannabis works better in many cases than any big pharma drug at preventing, reducing and reversing signs and symptoms of Alzheimer's. The fact is, if you don't have it, you can prevent it, and if you already have it, it is a great way to reduce the symptoms and prevent further damage. You said it doesn't "cure" it, but if you have it, and it is in the early stages where most cases are diagnosed and you take cannabis, you can potentially prevent it from causing other problems. In some people's book, that is a cure - because you already have it and you can prevent it from doing more damage. Whereas a preventative would prevent you from getting it in the first place.

That is why the author of the Forbes article used that wording (not me).

If you want to get on your high horse about this topic, then name ONE medication or substance that does a better job of combating Alzheimer's than cannabis.. Otherwise more studies need to be done and it could in fact have a greater impact than you think.

[William Tell]

Rational Wiki sure doesn't like those fundamentalist Christian global warming science denying anti science anti vaxxer isolationist conspiracy theorist right wing big business alternative medicine promoting astroturf extremists.

[pcosmar]

Rational Wiki sure doesn't like those fundamentalist Christian global warming science denying anti science anti vaxxer isolationist conspiracy theorist right wing big business alternative medicine promoting astroturf extremists.

Are you saying they are Biased?? let me check Snopes on that.