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Thread: ObamaCare vs. Constitution: Constitution will triumph

  1. #1

    ObamaCare vs. Constitution: Constitution will triumph

    Not all of us are the most articulate when it comes to our nation's history, and our own Constitution. However, most of us here (at the minimum) understand the importance of our government being restrained under our rule of law. I'm making this post as a means to help clear some muddy waters, for those who may not comprehend just how ObamaCare is a violation of the Constitution in legal terms.

    For starters:

    The SCOTUS ruled that ObamaCare as well as, the Individual Mandate, are constitutional because it was deemed, and I quote, "a tax." If you remember, ObamaCare originated in the Senate. Which, the Senate also doesn't have the constitutional authority to impose taxes, as that responsibility is reserved to the House of Representatives.

    The President nor the SCOTUS have been granted any such authority by we the people, to impose taxes on we the people. Only the House of Representatives has the Constitutional Authority to raise revenue (taxes) on we the people.

    ObamaCare is officially INVALID according to the SCOTUS ruling, and cannot legally be applied, without breaking our fundamental laws.

    U.S. Constitution: (Article 1 Section 7) All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

    Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

    Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.
    As you can see, a clear violation of Article 1 Section 7. Now let us continue to the 10th Amendment.

    Also, ObamaCare, as well as the SCOTUS ruling, are invalid due to a violation of the 10th Amendment. The SCOTUS does NOT have supreme power over the constitution. The constitution IS higher than the power reserved to the Supreme Court Justices, because the constitution IS the SUPREME LAW of the land.

    Healthcare is not a power that was delegated to the United States Government per the constitution. Thus, ObamaCare is officially invalid under the 10th Amendment as well. Why? Healthcare is a power that resides within the power of the states, and their citizens.

    U.S. Constitution: (10th Amendment) The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    The third argument you will face, is often the misconception about our nation's history, and the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court does not truly possess the power of Judicial Review, but, the Supreme Court has been using Judicial Review since the 1800's even without Constitutional Authority. The following will help put this into context more precisely.

    Judicial Review

    The Supreme Court of the United States spends much, if not most, of its time on a task which is not delegated to the Supreme Court by the Constitution. That task is: Hearing cases wherein the constitutionality of a law or regulation is challenged. The Supreme Court's nine Justices attempt to sort out what is, and what is not constitutional. This process is known as Judicial Review. But the states, in drafting the Constitution, did not delegate such a power to the Supreme Court, or to any branch of the government.

    Since the constitution does not give this power to the court, you might wonder how it came to be that the court assumed this responsibility. The answer is that the court just started doing it and no one has put a stop to it. This assumption of power took place first in 1794 when the Supreme Court declared an act of congress to be unconstitutional, but went largely unnoticed until the landmark case of Marbury v Madison in 1803. Marbury is significant less for the issue that it settled (between Marbury and Madison) than for the fact that Chief Justice John Marshall used Marbury to provide a rationale for judicial review. Since then, the idea that the Supreme Court should be the arbiter of constitutionality issues has become so ingrained that most people incorrectly believe that the Constitution granted this power.
    Powers of the Supreme Court

    Article III of the Constitution provides for the establishment of a Judicial branch of the federal government and Section 2 of that article enumerates the powers of the Supreme Court. Here is Section 2, in part:

    Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;

    to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;
    to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;
    to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;
    to Controversies between two or more States;
    between a State and Citizens of another State;
    between Citizens of different States;
    between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

    In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

    Feel free to examine the entire text of Article III to assure yourself that no power of Judicial Review is granted by the Constitution.

    "Well," you might say, "someone has to review laws for constitutionality. Why not the Supreme Court?" Some possible answers:

    First and foremost, it is not a power granted to the Supreme Court by the Constitution. When the Supreme Court exercises Judicial Review, it is acting unconstitutionally.
    It is a huge conflict of interest. The Federal Government is judging the constitutionality of its own laws. It is a classic case of "the fox guarding the hen house."

    The Constitution's "checks and balances" were designed to prevent any one branch of government (legislative, executive or judicial) from becoming too powerful and running roughshod over the other branches. There is no such system of checks and balances to protect the states and the people when multiple branches of government, acting in concert, erode and destroy the rights and powers of the states and the people.

    Even if the Supreme Court could be counted on to keep the Executive and Legislative branches from violating the Constitution, who is watching the Supreme Court and will prevent the Judicial branch from acting unconstitutionally? Unless you believe that the Supreme Court is infallible (and, demonstrably, it is not), then allowing the Supreme Court to be the sole arbiter of Constitutionality issues is obviously flawed.

    Justices are appointed for life. If the court upholds unconstitutional laws, there is no recourse. We the People cannot simply vote them out to correct the situation. Thomas Jefferson wrote, in 1823:

    "At the establishment of our constitutions, the judiciary bodies were supposed to be the most helpless and harmless members of the government. Experience, however, soon showed in what way they were to become the most dangerous; that the insufficiency of the means provided for their removal gave them a freehold and irresponsibility in office; that their decisions, seeming to concern individual suitors only, pass silent and unheeded by the public at large; that these decisions, nevertheless, become law by precedent, sapping, by little and little, the foundations of the constitution, and working its change by construction, before any one has perceived that that invisible and helpless worm has been busily employed in consuming its substance. In truth, man is not made to be trusted for life, if secured against all liability to account."

    It is the Constitution, not the Supreme Court, which is the Supreme Law of the Land. Even the Supreme Court should be accountable for overstepping Constitutional limits on federal power.

    There are only nine Justices and, under the current system, it takes only a simple majority — five votes — to determine a case. Given the supermajority requirement mandated by the Constitution to pass Constitutional amendments, a simple majority requirement by the Supreme Court, to uphold a suspect law, defies the spirit of the Constitution. If 44.44% of the Supreme Court justices (four of nine) think a law is not constitutional, we should err on the side of caution and declare it unconstitutional.

    The people and the states have little control over the makeup of the Supreme Court.

    Officials in all three branches of government take an oath of office to uphold the Constitution. The Supreme Court Justices, Senators, Congressmen, and Vice President, and other federal officers, all take an oath of office to "support and defend" the Constitution. (The president's oath of office in Article II, Section 1, requires that he "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.") Why is the Supreme Court's version of "constitutional" considered more authoritative? Is the Judicial branch more to be trusted than the Executive or Legislative branches? Prudence dictates that we be wary of all three branches (and especially wary of the one unaccountable branch).

    Given that it was the people and the states which established the Constitution, it is the states who should settle issues of constitutionality. The Constitution is a set of rules made by the states as to how the government should act. The "judicial review" paradigm allows the government to make its own rules with no say by the original rule-makers — the states.

    The Constitution was created by the states and any question as to the meaning of the Constitution is rightly settled by the states. When you make rules for your children, do you permit your children to interpret your rules in any manner they like? Of course not. Yet, the states are permitting the federal government — the "child" of the states — to do exactly that.

    Since the power of Judicial Review is not expressly granted to the Supreme Court by the Constitution, this power, per the tenth amendment, is "reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

    Read that last listed reason above again, for it contains the key to this site's being. The Constitution is very clear; any power to review laws to see if they are constitutional belongs to the states and to the people. Therefore, the Supreme Court is itself acting unconstitutionally when it exercises the power of 'Judicial Review.' It would require a Constitutional Amendment specifically granting this power to the court in order for 'Judicial Review' to be constitutional!

    And just how should the determination of "constitutionality" be handled? For that answer, it helps to understand how the Constitution is (supposed to be) amended.
    Last edited by Philosophy_of_Politics; 07-01-2012 at 09:31 PM.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*



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  3. #2
    Any disagreements, or corrections?
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  4. #3
    Nothing from anyone?
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  5. #4
    Government-goons ruled in favor of Government-goons. The Government hasn't been 'lawful' in the sense that they adhere to their own rules in what...never? Let me know when pigs fly.
    School of Salamanca - School of Austrian Economics - Liberty, Private Property, Free-Markets, Voluntaryist, Agorist. le monde va de lui même

    "No man hath power over my rights and liberties, and I over no mans [sic]."

    What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.

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    An Arrow Against all Tyrants - Richard Overton vis. 1646 (Required reading!)

  6. #5
    Sounds good to me PoP, that's how I understand it all too. My question is, if the original Affordable Healthcare Act that passed in 2010 was written and passed because of the commerce clause - wouldn't the whole Bill (now that its a tax) have to be rewritten and passed as a tax in the house then the senate before this "tax" becomes law?

    The Affordable Health Bill that passed in 2010 didn't originate in the House or Senate as a "tax" or "revenue" Bill.

    Wouldn't have to be rewritten at the least ?

  7. #6
    Who exactly is going to "hold them accountable"?

    Holder is only a peon in the "Just-Us" system when compared to supreme court judges and the ol' proverbial "act of congress" can't get him indicted...

    Relying on "The System" to fix or even police it self is a fallacy.

    Lawyers/Guns & Money got our country into the mess we're in, expecting the same folks to get us out goes against what Einstein said about expecting different results.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Who exactly is going to "hold them accountable"?

    Holder is only a peon in the "Just-Us" system when compared to supreme court judges and the ol' proverbial "act of congress" can't get him indicted...

    Relying on "The System" to fix or even police it self is a fallacy.

    Lawyers/Guns & Money got our country into the mess we're in, expecting the same folks to get us out goes against what Einstein said about expecting different results.
    We the People need to hold them accountable. If enough people come to the same conclusion as the OP and voice opinions about it via, twitter, blogs, vlogs, articles, letters to the editor, bull horns, smoke signals, morse code whateva ... we can at least try to get the court of public opinion in defense of the constitution imprinted on the internets. We need to atleast try to defend the constitution with our voices ... gezzz it's about all we have left, evidently.
    "Never Miss a Good Chance to Shut up"

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MelissaCato View Post
    We the People need to hold them accountable. If enough people come to the same conclusion as the OP and voice opinions about it via, twitter, blogs, vlogs, articles, letters to the editor, bull horns, smoke signals, morse code whateva ... we can at least try to get the court of public opinion in defense of the constitution imprinted on the internets. We need to atleast try to defend the constitution with our voices ... gezzz it's about all we have left, evidently.
    Cyber ink has little to no affect against entrenched "Establishment-Types".

    Unfortunately it appears as if "We The People" actually tried to hold any of them accountable in a physical sense we would be rounded up and shipped to some clandestine grey-bar hotel.

    Cyber ink can educate and inform but when the uneducated possess the physical means to control the educated it's a no-win situation.

    Try to disarm the "Just-Us" department....Physically or intellectually....What we're doing isn't working, but I don't know what to do differently.



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  11. #9
    If the Constitution triumphing means that it will stop or reverse the growth of the federal government, then I wonder what the basis for optimism that this will suddenly start happening is.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Cyber ink has little to no affect against entrenched "Establishment-Types".

    Unfortunately it appears as if "We The People" actually tried to hold any of them accountable in a physical sense we would be rounded up and shipped to some clandestine grey-bar hotel.

    Cyber ink can educate and inform but when the uneducated possess the physical means to control the educated it's a no-win situation.

    Try to disarm the "Just-Us" department....Physically or intellectually....What we're doing isn't working, but I don't know what to do differently.
    Hey, miracles and acts of God can happen you know. lol
    "Never Miss a Good Chance to Shut up"

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    If the Constitution triumphing means that it will stop or reverse the growth of the federal government, then I wonder what the basis for optimism that this will suddenly start happening is.
    The idea wasn't that the constitution would literally stop them from ILLEGALLY ENFORCING a law that cannot be constitutionally legal. But rather, that those who understand their constitution, will be able to prevent it from being enforced.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    The idea wasn't that the constitution would literally stop them from ILLEGALLY ENFORCING a law that cannot be constitutionally legal. But rather, that those who understand their constitution, will be able to prevent it from being enforced.
    What will enable those who know the Constitution to do to Obamacare what they haven't been able to do to the rest of the federal government's entitlement programs?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    What will enable those who know the Constitution to do to Obamacare what they haven't been able to do to the rest of the federal government's entitlement programs?
    They stand up, use the rule of law to their advantage, and stand firm against the tyrannous state.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    They stand up, use the rule of law to their advantage, and stand firm against the tyrannous state.
    What is "the rule of law" and how does one "use" it?

    And again, if this hasn't happened until now, what makes you confident that now with Obamacare it will suddenly start happening?
    Last edited by erowe1; 06-30-2012 at 10:42 AM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    What will enable those who know the Constitution to do to Obamacare what they haven't been able to do to the rest of the federal government's entitlement programs?
    Word! A couple of blog posts today on LRC have spelled out this very problem:

    "...It was Woodrow Wilson who, in his book, Constitutional Government in the United States (p. 178), celebrated the fact that the North's victory in the "Civil War" brought about the practice of the Supreme Court being the sole arbiter of the constitutionality of federal legislation. "The War between the States established . . . this principle, that the federal government is, through its courts, the final judge of its own powers," Wilson wrote.

    The Jeffersonians never believed that a written constitution alone would be sufficient to restrain the tyrannical proclivities of the state. That's why Jefferson himself championed the rights of secession and nullification until his dying days. Read John C. Calhoun's Disquisition on Government if you are interested in an adult analysis of "constitutional government" and are not a cowardly beltway-area "libertarian" whose primary goal in life is to be "accepted" by the Washington establishment and the politically-correct totalitarian leftists in academe."


    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/114709.html

    "...The Constitution was not an advance in 1789 over the Articles of Confederation. It was designed to create a strong central government. I do not see how anyone can look at the matter of the Constitution rationally and unemotionally without concluding that it lacks legitimate authority. The more that compulsion expands in the ordinary and everyday affairs of living, the worse that life becomes and the more evident does it become to greater and greater numbers of the compelled that this government and its Constitution are hopeless and should be abandoned."

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewr...es/114651.html
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  18. #16
    Interest on a home mortgage can qualify one for a tax deduction, whereas renting that same home won't. Is that unconstitutional too?
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    What is "the rule of law" and how does one "use" it?

    And again, if this hasn't happened until now, what makes you confident that now with Obamacare it will suddenly start happening?
    You're implying that people stood firm in the past, when this is clearly not the case. You're attempting to poke holes in my argument, as to where we can afford to remain behaving in the same manner, regarding the laws which are imposed upon us.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    You're implying that people stood firm in the past, when this is clearly not the case. You're attempting to poke holes in my argument, as to where we can afford to remain behaving in the same manner, regarding the laws which are imposed upon us.
    I'm not implying anything. But if they haven't done that in the past, why do you think they will now?

    One way or another the federal leviathan will eventually crumble. On that I agree. But when that happens, it won't be a day of triumph for the Constitution, it will be a day when all pretenses of its legitimacy will finally have been shed. The Constitution is not a partner to the rule of law in any meaningful sense of that phrase, it is its enemy. The two have never coexisted and never can.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by erowe1 View Post
    I'm not implying anything. But if they haven't done that in the past, why do you think they will now?

    One way or another the federal leviathan will eventually crumble. On that I agree. But when that happens, it won't be a day of triumph for the Constitution, it will be a day when all pretenses of its legitimacy will finally have been shed. The Constitution is not a partner to the rule of law in any meaningful sense of that phrase, it is its enemy. The two have never coexisted and never can.
    Why do I think more people will start standing now? The sleeping giant is gradually awakening, for one. Secondly, reality is catching up with those which originally chose to ignore it. Thirdly, because I believe we are long overdue, to begin standing in unison, and telling our government no.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    Why do I think more people will start standing now? The sleeping giant is gradually awakening, for one. Secondly, reality is catching up with those which originally chose to ignore it. Thirdly, because I believe we are long overdue, to begin standing in unison, and telling our government no.
    And how's this going to actually work?

    Protesting in "free-speech zones" with little signs............Refusing to fork over FRN's when the state issues a bill......Or maybe getting really brave and marching on Washington without a permit...

    Yup "Just say no" has worked well for the cops too.

  24. #21
    ObamaCare vs. Constitution: Constitution will triumph
    Tyranny vs Constitution.... history has shown, tyranny has the upper hand
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #22
    So depressing with people having self-defeatist arguments.

    Why bother if people are just going to live in fear of the basic premise, that government is winning against its own people?
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    Why do I think more people will start standing now? The sleeping giant is gradually awakening, for one. Secondly, reality is catching up with those which originally chose to ignore it. Thirdly, because I believe we are long overdue, to begin standing in unison, and telling our government no.
    We've been long overdue for 100 years. This advancement of tyranny isn't going to change anything, not in the minds of the sheeple. Tyranny is never reversed; only overthrown. And that only happens when there is either massive starvation, or massive violence.

    If you're rightfully pissed about the state of affairs we have in this USSA, then do something about it, but don't wait for the people of this country to do the right thing. You'll be waiting a very long time.

    As far as I can see you only have two realistic options:
    1) Separation (as the non-violent choice, it's what I would recommend)
    2) Revolution
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    So depressing with people having self-defeatist arguments.

    Why bother if people are just going to live in fear of the basic premise, that government is winning against its own people?
    Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315

    Stand-up back then didn't involve permission or corals...



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." --Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315

    Stand-up back then didn't involve permission or corals...
    I agree, and I understand the depth of that. However, I believe those of us who take these matters seriously. Should be the ones to initiate the process, and unite more people under such a cause.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    We've been long overdue for 100 years. This advancement of tyranny isn't going to change anything, not in the minds of the sheeple. Tyranny is never reversed; only overthrown. And that only happens when there is either massive starvation, or massive violence.

    If you're rightfully pissed about the state of affairs we have in this USSA, then do something about it, but don't wait for the people of this country to do the right thing. You'll be waiting a very long time.

    As far as I can see you only have two realistic options:
    1) Separation (as the non-violent choice, it's what I would recommend)
    2) Revolution
    I personally will refuse to comply with the federally mandated healthcare system, and I already stopped paying federal tax (had my boss convert me to 1099 checks on the payroll). I just believe that we have the intellect, and passion, necessary in order to initiate such a concept on a publicly acknowledged level.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    I just believe that we have the intellect, and passion, necessary in order to initiate such a concept on a publicly acknowledged level.
    We could get something done like that, ya. They'd acknowledge it. Maybe even entertain it for a while. It'd be a fun game for them for a while. But once it actually got in the way of their agenda, make no mistake about it, they'd shut it down.

    It would be a waste of time. Unless your goal is to try to wake up a few more people. Which it may do. But not many. Most who are capable of waking up are already awake. At some point we need to stop recruiting, and start acting.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by bxm042 View Post
    We could get something done like that, ya. They'd acknowledge it. Maybe even entertain it for a while. It'd be a fun game for them for a while. But once it actually got in the way of their agenda, make no mistake about it, they'd shut it down.

    It would be a waste of time. Unless your goal is to try to wake up a few more people. Which it may do. But not many. Most who are capable of waking up are already awake. At some point we need to stop recruiting, and start acting.
    Indeed. The point of the idea, is to start acting. Recruiting is just merely something that would happen along the way. I believe that many more are willing to stand, but they just don't know where to begin, or who to stand with.
    "For if you [the rulers] suffer your people to be ill-educated, and their manners to be corrupted from their infancy, and then punish them for those crimes to which their first education disposed them, what else is to be concluded from this, but that you first make thieves [and outlaws] and then punish them."
    -Sir Thomas More (1478-1535), Utopia, Book 1

    *Admirer, of Philosophy.*

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    I personally will refuse to comply with the federally mandated healthcare system, and I already stopped paying federal tax (had my boss convert me to 1099 checks on the payroll). I just believe that we have the intellect, and passion, necessary in order to initiate such a concept on a publicly acknowledged level.
    As a independent contractor (1099) he is not your "boss." Also over a certain amount ($600 ish?) he will probably report to the IRS you had taxable income.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

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    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy_of_Politics View Post
    Indeed. The point of the idea, is to start acting. Recruiting is just merely something that would happen along the way. I believe that many more are willing to stand, but they just don't know where to begin, or who to stand with.
    Well I guess it depends on whether your goal is to send a message or start a revolution. Tax revolts can do that, indeed.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

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