How To Spot a Ringer

[The Rebel Poet]

Many political candidates sound unusually libertarianish on the campaign trail. Tax breaks for middle class families and not sending your kids to war do make good sound bites. But how do we sort the sheep from the goats? If you didn't fall for Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump, tell us how you knew they weren't going to bring the troops home, shrink the bureaucracy etc. So we can replicate your wisdom in the future. If you did fall for Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump, tell us what tricked you, and how we can all avoid that mistake in the future.

[dannno]

The truth is that it is impossible to spot a ringer. You could have someone who you think believes in freedom 100%, who lives it, even someone who votes for it for years and years... they could be someone on the other side of the country you never met, or they could be your spouse...and they could still be a Fed or deep state tool. Some people are really good actors/actresses.

But your OP is kinda dumb, I never expected Trump to be a principled individual liberty candidate, nobody did, I expected him to be 100 times better than Hillary. So far he is 100 times better than Hillary.

With Bush/Obama/Romney/McCain/Kerry/etc... How could you possibly calculate who would be "better" than the other?? Obama ran on a better foreign policy, better civil liberties but with more socialist policies. Romney/McCain ran on better domestic policies but atrocious foreign policies, and based on Bush there was no evidence they would be any good on spending. Obama ended up having an atrocious foreign policy and passed a lot of socialist and anti-civil liberty legislation. The Republicans wouldn't have been much better, and they may have had a much worse foreign policy.

But the bottom line is they are all deep state tools. That's why it doesn't matter.

Trump, on the other hand, is measurably and considerably better than Hillary. He is working with a bunch of deep state tools, but they don't have him completely under his thumb and you can tell by how the media treats him.

Could he be a ringer? Sure, very unlikely, but what evidence do you have? What better option do we have?

[phill4paul]

It hard to replicate wisdom that only comes with age. If a politician is talking, 9 out of 10 times they are lying. The other time he is using a half-truth.

[wizardwatson]

The truth is that it is impossible to spot a ringer. You could have someone who you think believes in freedom 100%, who lives it, even someone who votes for it for years and years... they could be someone on the other side of the country you never met, or they could be your spouse...and they could still be a Fed or deep state tool. Some people are really good actors/actresses.

But your OP is kinda dumb, I never expected Trump to be a principled individual liberty candidate, nobody did, I expected him to be 100 times better than Hillary. So far he is 100 times better than Hillary.

With Bush/Obama/Romney/McCain/Kerry/etc... How could you possibly calculate who would be "better" than the other?? Obama ran on a better foreign policy, better civil liberties but with more socialist policies. Romney/McCain ran on better domestic policies but atrocious foreign policies, and based on Bush there was no evidence they would be any good on spending. Obama ended up having an atrocious foreign policy and passed a lot of socialist and anti-civil liberty legislation. The Republicans wouldn't have been much better, and they may have had a much worse foreign policy.

But the bottom line is they are all deep state tools. That's why it doesn't matter.

Trump, on the other hand, is measurably and considerably better than Hillary. He is working with a bunch of deep state tools, but they don't have him completely under his thumb and you can tell by how the media treats him.

Could he be a ringer? Sure, very unlikely, but what evidence do you have? What better option do we have?

You've mentioned like everyone in this post except Ron and Rand.

[The Rebel Poet]

It hard to replicate wisdom that only comes with age. If a politician is talking, 9 out of 10 times they are lying. The other time he is using a half-truth.

What's the point of wisdom if you can't share it? The point of this thread is to distill the collective wisdom of rpf into something measurable.

[r3volution 3.0]

In the last election, it was easy.

Both candidates had extensive records of anti-libertarian statements.

Both supported QE, bank bailouts, socialized medicine, the PATRIOT Act, and the Libyan war, for instance.

It's not always that easy, though. Sometimes, if a candidate is saying the right thing but lacks a record, you just have to go by your gut.

...or do a "thymological" analysis, as Ludwig von would put it.

[dannno]

You've mentioned like everyone in this post except Ron and Rand.

I supported Rand until after he dropped out. Rand was not in the General Election.

[wizardwatson]

I supported Rand until after he dropped out. Rand was not in the General Election.

I see.

[phill4paul]

What's the point of wisdom if you can't share it? The point of this thread is to distill the collective wisdom of rpf into something measurable.

The key takeaway is "wisdom that only comes with age." You can impart wisdom on child rearing to someone that is young and childless by saying "You don't understand now, but when you have kids you will. Trust me." And they may give some thought to the wisdom you imparted, but chances are they will make the same mistakes as the older one did at their age. Then the day will come when the younger has children, experiences the same situation and finally becomes enlightened.
The problem with our society as it stands is that elder wisdom is not respected or cared for by the young. They believe themselves smarter, better and wiser. Truth of the matter is I was no different as a young buck in the early '80's.
I knew it all, by God. Turns out I didn't know so much back then. But, with experience comes wisdom. And to gain experience takes time. No one is born with it.

[William Tell]

Many political candidates sound unusually libertarianish on the campaign trail. Tax breaks for middle class families and not sending your kids to war do make good sound bites. But how do we sort the sheep from the goats? If you didn't fall for Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump, tell us how you knew they weren't going to bring the troops home, shrink the bureaucracy etc. So we can replicate your wisdom in the future.

Good discussion. In order for a candidate to get my support he needs to have an understandable and principled worldview. That is rare but not that difficult to spot in my experience.

The ringers tell you what you want to hear, generally by latching on to the popular view of something in current events. For example your paper does a story on how a bridge is getting old and a candidate shows up for a photo-shoot saying we should divert funds for that particular bridge, because, well it was in the news! Ringers only talk about popular principles, for example Ted Cruz will talk about high debt and standing on principle but won't touch some things that are bankrupting us like Foreign Aid and endless wars.


If a candidate won't take a couple unpopular positions they are probably not sincere. If you can't boil someone's views down to life liberty and property they probably will blow whichever way the winds and donor dollars send them.


I failed to spot a ringer once back when I first started getting involved. I was blinded by my hatred for his opponent so failed to do some homework and I also ignored and brushed aside some glaring warning signs on who was supporting who. Don't get caught up in the enemy of my enemy is my friend BS. Find a real friend instead.

[William Tell]

The key takeaway is "wisdom that only comes with age." You can impart wisdom on child rearing to someone that is young and childless by saying "You don't understand now, but when you have kids you will. Trust me." And they may give some thought to the wisdom you imparted, but chances are they will make the same mistakes as the older one did at their age. Then the day will come when the younger has children, experiences the same situation and finally becomes enlightened.
The problem with our society as it stands is that elder wisdom is not respected or cared for by the young. They believe themselves smarter, better and wiser. Truth of the matter is I was no different as a young buck in the early '80's.
I knew it all, by God. Turns out I didn't know so much back then. But, with experience comes wisdom. And to gain experience takes time. No one is born with it.

On the flip side though, there are some people who have been in this fight for decades who really ought to know better by now who were duped last year.

[timosman]

On the flip side though, there are some people who have been in this fight for decades who really ought to know better by now who were duped last year.

Only simpletons like libertarians think this is about principles. Smart people know we all have to share the swamp so they cheerfully assume the role of the deceived public. This gives everybody the much needed comfort and a peace of mind without raising the anxiety levels too much.

[oyarde]

Many political candidates sound unusually libertarianish on the campaign trail. Tax breaks for middle class families and not sending your kids to war do make good sound bites. But how do we sort the sheep from the goats? If you didn't fall for Clinton, Bush, Obama or Trump, tell us how you knew they weren't going to bring the troops home, shrink the bureaucracy etc. So we can replicate your wisdom in the future. If you did fall for Clinton, Bush, Obama, or Trump, tell us what tricked you, and how we can all avoid that mistake in the future.

Did anyone seriously think those people would bring troops home ?

[William Tell]

Only simpletons like libertarians think this is about principles. Smart people know we all have to share the swamp so they cheerfully assume the role of the deceived public. This gives everybody the much needed comfort and a peace of mind without raising the anxiety levels too much.

https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...48896708108290

[William Tell]

I see a ringer one starred this thread.

[The Gold Standard]

To be fair to everyone mentioned in the OP, none of them ran on a single item in their platform that would appeal to a libertarian. They never claimed to value individual liberty. Their whole lives have been spent in direct conflict against the idea.

If you want to know who to believe, it's much like everyday life. Ignore everything they say, and look at what they do.

Also a good sign that they aren't on your side is the fact the media covers them non stop. It doesn't matter what kind of coverage they get, if they are constantly in the news cycle, they that means the powers that be would be just fine with them in charge. If they don't want the idiot voter to know who they are, you won't hear a peep about them, except for the occasional remark making a joke out of their candidacy.

[r3volution 3.0]

Also a good sign that they aren't on your side is the fact the media covers them non stop. It doesn't matter what kind of coverage they get, if they are constantly in the news cycle, they that means the powers that be would be just fine with them in charge. If they don't want the idiot voter to know who they are, you won't hear a peep about them, except for the occasional remark making a joke out of their candidacy.

That rings a bell.

Reminds me of that nice old fella from TX that ran years ago...

Rob? Was it? I can't remember, he hasn't been in the news lately...

[Raginfridus]

I did vote Trump over Cruz in the primary, but I didn't vote for him in the election, and I stayed undecided about him till December. Now I see he's the Ronald Reagan of our time. My primary vote was a ringer for a ringer, but I never liked his populism - its some of the phoniest and shallowest I've heard. Eric Hoffer, the first Neocon, very mysterious man, wrote a good book about mass movements called The True Believer.



First, no girls allowed (even a figurehead like POTUS). Second, does he have a record (bills, acts, votes, punditry, yadda yadda)? Third, is his record consistently libertarian? Stuff like that.

[Origanalist]

I see a ringer one starred this thread.

The rats are still here I see, You would think they would have got a exterminator by now.

[Zippyjuan]

[oyarde]

Ringers are easy to spot . I have a secret decoder ring . Tell me what they said and I can tell you what they really said .

[wizardwatson]

I supported Rand until after he dropped out. Rand was not in the General Election.

I also donated hundreds of $$$s to Rand's senate campaign to make sure he was there when Trump or Hillary was in office.. I didn't donate to Trump or even vote for Trump.. What did you do?

You just seem very vocal in your defense of Trump all the time. I find it annoying. It's the internet, though, not a personal attack. No one cares to know who really are behind these posts. If they did, we might actually accomplish something besides taking up space on Bryan's MySQL server.