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Thread: Democrats Are Going to Try to Raise the Corporate Tax Rate

  1. #1

    Democrats Are Going to Try to Raise the Corporate Tax Rate

    Democrats plan to use their control of the House to argue for raising the corporate tax rate by a few percentage points -- a long-shot change that, if enacted, could cause the Republican-championed tax cut to unravel.For now, the effort is a political talking point, as Democrats look to set the agenda for the 2020 elections and galvanize voters by pushing for middle-class relief. Increasing the corporate rate is likely to be a nonstarter in the Senate, as long as Republicans control the chamber. They’ve cited the new corporate rate as integral to the tax law and responsible for the improved economy.
    But if the move were to happen eventually, it could undermine the foundation of President Donald Trump’s signature legislative achievement. One of the key features of the overhaul was slashing the corporate rate to 21 percent -- a level chosen because it’s below many foreign competitors’ rates, which are in the mid-20s.
    Trump and Republican leaders have promised that their changes to the corporate tax code would spur job creation and economic growth, and prevent U.S. companies from moving their income and tax liabilities to lower tax countries.
    Increasing the rate to, say, 25 or 28 percent, would incentivize companies to keep shifting their income offshore and engage in “tax games,” said Mark Prater, former chief tax counsel for the Senate Finance Committee and one of the main architects of the 2017 law. Since last week’s midterm elections, top House Democrats have been tight-lipped about exactly how high they’d like to set the rate.
    A corporate rate hike would also bring the levy closer to what pass-through entities such as partnerships and LLCs effectively pay -- and that could cause corporations to reconsider their structure since they face two layers of tax. Private equity firms KKR & Co. and Ares Management LP have already switched to corporations from partnerships to take advantage of the low corporate rate.
    “There is a delicate relationship between all of these features,” said Prater, who’s a managing director at accounting firm PwC. “The corporate rate doesn’t make up that big of a chunk of the U.S. tax system, but it has pretty significant consequences on the rest of it.”
    ‘Some Adjustments’
    House Democrats have said they plan on using their new majority to hold hearings about the Republican tax overhaul, arguing it’s a giveaway to corporations and the wealthy. Increasing the corporate rate by a few notches is one of the easiest ways to raise hundreds of billions of dollars in one shot.
    Representative Richard Neal of Massachusetts, the Democrat poised to be chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, didn’t respond to a request for comment. Representative John Delaney, a Maryland Democrat who has announced he’s running for president in 2020, is pushing a plan to increase the corporate rate to 23 percent to pay for infrastructure.
    Trump, who said during last year’s tax debate that he wouldn’t budge on a corporate rate above 20 percent, signaled during a press conference last week that he would be open to working with Democrats on a middle-class tax cut that was offset by “some adjustments” to other rates. When asked if that could include a corporate rate increase, Trump said “Yeah.”
    “It’s not a tough political call to say, ‘let’s raise taxes on corporations’,” said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the right-leaning American Action Forum.
    In the Senate, Democrats have also talked about adjusting the corporate rate. An infrastructure plan released earlier this year by Senate Democrats calls for raising the corporate rate to 25 percent and the top individual rate to 39.6 percent from 37 percent. Senator Kamala Harris, a California Democrat regarded as a possible 2020 candidate, also has a plan to direct tax benefits to workers by repealing parts of the GOP tax law.
    Corporate America would fight the change, saying they’ve made long-term investment decisions based on a 21 percent rate. Lobbying groups including the RATE Coalition, which pushed for a low corporate rate, put out a statement after the midterm elections saying it would “work tirelessly” to maintain the current rate.
    Anti-tax advocate Grover Norquist has also gotten almost all GOP members of Congress to sign a pledge against raising taxes that could come back to haunt them if they were to support the corporate change.
    Expanded Child Credit
    Still, two Senate Republicans proposed a small corporate rate increase to offset individual tax benefits during the tax debate. Republican Senators Marco Rubio of Florida and Mike Lee of Utah pushed to increase the corporate tax rate to pay for a more generous child tax credit. Senator Susan Collins, a Maine Republican, has also said she would support a slightly higher corporate rate to fund tax benefits for individuals.

    Lee still supports a slight increase to the corporate rate to pay for an expanded child credit, spokesman Conn Carroll said. Spokeswomen for Rubio and Collins didn’t respond to requests to comment.

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/tax-overh...jtc_news_index

    Isn't it great having Demoncrats run the House?


    Mike Lee of Utah pushed to increase the corporate tax rate to pay for a more generous child tax credit

    What is Lee thinking?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

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    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    And then they will destroy the rolling economy which is bringing in record revenue. Pro-growth tax cuts bring in more revenue than higher tax rates. whodathunkit?

  4. #3
    Corporations don't pay taxes.

    Stakeholders, employees and Consumers (the poor hit hardest) do.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!

    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  5. #4
    Per registered decision, member has been banned for violating community standards as interpreted by TheTexan (respect his authoritah) as authorized by Brian4Liberty Ruling

    May God have mercy on his atheist, police-hating, non-voting, anarchist soul.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 02-23-2020 at 08:16 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Corporations don't pay taxes.

    Stakeholders, employees and Consumers (the poor hit hardest) do.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Danke again.

    Absolutely correct sir! ANY tax on a corporation is passed on down to the lowly schmuck that simply wants to put food on the table. I kinda think of it as a "soft" interest rate hike.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    And then they will destroy the rolling economy which is bringing in record revenue. Pro-growth tax cuts bring in more revenue than higher tax rates. whodathunkit?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Oh no. Tax receipts are down. How tragic.

    I understand you're just countering phil's comment. And I'm just not giving a sh!t.

    People should get to keep the fruits of their labor. That the thief can't balance his books sans stolen goods is a little further down on my list of concerns, to say the least.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    How much farther down would they have been without the tax cuts?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    How much farther down would they have been without the tax cuts?
    Tax cuts estimated to add an additional $1 trillion to the debt over ten years.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tax cuts estimated to add an additional $1 trillion to the debt over ten years.
    Nope, it's the spending that does that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nope, it's the spending that does that.
    Econ 101 failure.

    Deficits and debt are a combination of spending and income. Not just spending. A deficit is the difference between what you take in and what you spend. Reduce what you take in and your deficit rises. Increase spending without any changes in revenue and your deficit rises. Debt is the sum of all your deficits.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Econ 101 failure.

    Deficits and debt are a combination of spending and income. Not just spending. A deficit is the difference between what you take in and what you spend. Reduce what you take in and your deficit rises. Increase spending without any changes in revenue and your deficit rises. Debt is the sum of all your deficits.


    The tax cuts improve the economy and increase revenue over what it would have been without them, there is a level of taxation where that wouldn't happen but we are nowhere near that.

    It is the increase in spending that is bad for the deficit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tax cuts estimated to add an additional $1 trillion to the debt over ten years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nope, it's the spending that does that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Econ 101 failure.
    Deficits and debt are a combination of spending and income. Not just spending. A deficit is the difference between what you take in and what you spend. Reduce what you take in and your deficit rises. Increase spending without any changes in revenue and your deficit rises. Debt is the sum of all your deficits.
    Incorrect. Income can NOT increase debt or deficits, it is entirely spending. Behold: If you spend nothing, you can have no debt or deficit.

  16. #14
    Increased tariffs good.


    Increased corporate tax rates bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Increased tariffs good.


    Increased corporate tax rates bad.
    Tariffs in a vacuum are the best form of taxation but the higher they are the worse they are, during a trade war they serve a completely different need.

    Having a large military hanging around is bad too............................................... .......................Unless you are in the middle of a defensive war.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Tariffs in a vacuum are the best form of taxation but the higher they are the worse they are, during a trade war they serve a completely different need.

    Having a large military hanging around is bad too............................................... .......................Unless you are in the middle of a defensive war.
    We'll just have to keep increasing the size of government until we've made it big enough that we can finally make it smaller.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    We'll just have to keep increasing the size of government until we've made it big enough that we can finally make it smaller.
    Non Sequitur.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Dems have no game , none , nothing to offer . Only thing they will do is try and raise taxes , spend more , give more $#@! away to people who would vote for them . Parasites .
    Do something Danke

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tax cuts estimated to add an additional $1 trillion to the debt over ten years.
    Income tax revenue is up 7.9%.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/tax-rev...1919?mod=e2two

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    That was for the fiscal year which began last October. Tax cuts didn't go into effect since January. Since the tax cuts went into effect, revenues are down. (Article requires subscription). April was the only month this year with higher tax revenues than the year before.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Incorrect. Income can NOT increase debt or deficits, it is entirely spending. Behold: If you spend nothing, you can have no debt or deficit.
    If you spend $100 and have no money you have a $100 deficit.

    If you spend $100 and get $50 in revenue, you have a $50 deficit.

    If you spend $100 and get $100 in revenue, you have no deficit.

    If you spend $100 and get $150 in revenue, you have a $50 surplus.

    IF only spending is your deficit and income does not matter, our deficit for this year is over $4 trillion since that is how much the government is spending.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 11-15-2018 at 07:40 PM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    That was for the fiscal year which began last October. Tax cuts didn't go into effect since January. Since the tax cuts went into effect, revenues are down. (Article requires subscription). April was the only month this year with higher tax revenues than the year before.
    The Treasury Department reported this week that individual income tax collections for FY 2018 totaled $1.7 trillion. That's up $14 billion from fiscal 2017, and an all-time high. And that's despite the fact that individual income tax rates got a significant cut this year as part of President Donald Trump's tax reform plan.

    Income Taxes After Trump Tax Cuts
    True, the first three months of the fiscal year were before the tax cuts kicked in. But if you limit the accounting to this calendar year, individual income tax revenues are up by 5% through September.

    Other major sources of revenue climbed as well, as the overall economy revived. FICA tax collections rose by more than 3%. Excise taxes jumped 13%.

    The only category that was down? Corporate income taxes, which dropped by 31%.

    Trump Tax Cuts To Blame For Deficit?

    To this, critics say, yes, but revenues would have climbed faster had it not been for the tax cuts, because the economy was booming in 2018, unlike in 2016.

    Not necessarily.

    Yes, the economy was booming in fiscal 2018. But it probably wouldn't have been booming without the tax cuts. Had Trump not succeeded in getting his pro-growth tax cuts across the finish line, it's possible we'd have seen a year like Obama's last one. A sluggish economy, barely increasing federal revenues, and a large increase in deficits.

    Does that mean Trump's tax cuts are fully "paying for themselves"? We wouldn't make that argument. But the faster economic growth is clearly offsetting at least some of their costs — which is precisely what backers said would happen.

    What is unmistakable from the data, however, is that the Trump tax cuts are not entirely, or even mostly, responsible for the increase in the deficit. Blame for that rests squarely with spendthrifts in Congress — on both sides of the aisle — who refuse to bring federal spending under control.
    https://www.investors.com/politics/e...nues-deficits/

  26. #23
    Does that mean Trump's tax cuts are fully "paying for themselves"? We wouldn't make that argument.
    The small rise in income tax revenue is more than being offset by the lower corporate tax revenues. Government is taking in less tax money than they were last year.

    Data in the PDF at this link: https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsre...mt/current.htm

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If you spend $100 and have no money you have a $100 deficit.

    If you spend $100 and get $50 in revenue, you have a $50 deficit.

    If you spend $100 and get $100 in revenue, you have no deficit.

    If you spend $100 and get $150 in revenue, you have a $50 surplus.

    IF only spending is your deficit and income does not matter, our deficit for this year is over $4 trillion since that is how much the government is spending.
    if you spend nothing and have only income, how much is your deficit? income can't add to the debt, only spending can.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    if you spend nothing and have only income, how much is your deficit? income can't add to the debt, only spending can.
    If you spend nothing and you have only income you have a surplus. If you spend more than you take in, you have a deficit.

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/...nglish/deficit

    deficit

    noun [ C ] US ​ /ˈdef·ə·sət/

    the amount by which money spent is more than money received:

    The theater has been operating at a deficit of over $150,000 a year.



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