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Thread: Trump-Kasich Feud Has GOP Worried About Ohio

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    That is one of the most retarded replies I read in a while. We can speak our mind here in any way you like. Have a problem with that? Too bad Brian owns the forum.

    Brian can have his pet project and we can choose or not choose to support it or participate.
    I suggest you read the site policies again. There are most definitely things you cannot say on here (without risk of negative consequences). The member in question has often complained about this, I was just explaining to him why he has no standing to make those complaints.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    You seem to be in disagreement with the site policy, Bryan has provided a framework to resolve disagreements of this nature. Instead, you refuse to use that framework.
    The framework is flawed and part of what is under dispute, as I have expressed before. But you seem to not understand this is mainly not about a evaluating a particular candidate, but about the direction of the movement in general. I have several times talked about leaving Trump out of the issue, but found many here do not want to address it even apart from discussing a given candidate.

    Ron Paul's "right way to win" plan from 2012 was about growing or maximizing the core liberty base, which I believe he did from 5% to 10% across 2008-2012. Rand arguably shrunk the base back to 5% in the past year. But winning elections is about engaging voting blocs beyond the base. Emphasizing our core issues can grow the liberty base, but it cannot by itself create voting coalitions that win elections, nor displace the statist establishment. With or without a Trump in the picture, showing us an example as to how to do it, the movement still needs to do those two things.

    The movement has been splintering because many are failing to move towards incorporating those other two dynamics. They remain stuck at being exclusively Paul and issue-centered, having learned nothing from the last three failed campaigns. Engaging in coalition-building and the anti-establishment voters is not going in the opposite direction, it’s about going in a liberty-building direction by not staying stuck in 2007.

    It’s not about our 5% base and beating up the other candidates, it’s about attracting more voters to us. It’s about connecting with them, not insulting them by bashing everything about the candidates who DO connect with them. It’s not about the Paul following, or about viewing either Paul as the perpetual center of the liberty universe, it’s about reaching beyond the following to show how the liberty approach engages the concerns of most voters.
    Last edited by Peace&Freedom; 07-23-2016 at 07:48 AM.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  4. #63
    Maximizing the core liberty base by not educating people in being self responsible and autonomous, but accepting arm twisting and berating anyone who disagrees with the new "converts" pet projects that will result in massive losses of liberty and personal income if brought to fruition. Smh...

    You cannot grow the liberty movement by become bigger authoritarians. That is growing the authoritarian movement under the guise of being for liberty. It is a con job.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post


    Now how are liberty folks going to use this to problem to their advantage? (Please see upper right hand corner if you are confused about liberty folks supported by this forum)
    is that a helmet?



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by 4_God_N_Country View Post
    is that a helmet?
    Rorschach test



    Not a helmet, btw
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by 4_God_N_Country View Post
    is that a helmet?
    In a manner of speaking, I suppose it is ...

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    laughably over-selling Trump as having a "radically anti-libertarian record and agenda." It has been pointed out time and again that he has in fact many net anti-statist positions, that his candidacy has strategically benefited the liberty movement, and has many leading libertarians supporting him..
    How does trump help the liberty movement? He is running on a anti-libertarian platform when people don't even care what he is saying. He could be running on a Ron Paul platform and be doing just as good because of his celebrity. How is that helping the liberty movement? Trump helped the establishment beat the liberty movement, he ran against us in the 2011 Iowa caucus and told everyone a vote for Ron Paul would be a wasted vote when we should of won Iowa. He has been the worst thing to happen to the liberty movement.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    How does trump help the liberty movement? He is running on a anti-libertarian platform when people don't even care what he is saying. He could be running on a Ron Paul platform and be doing just as good because of his celebrity. How is that helping the liberty movement? Trump helped the establishment beat the liberty movement, he ran against us in the 2011 Iowa caucus and told everyone a vote for Ron Paul would be a wasted vote when we should of won Iowa. He has been the worst thing to happen to the liberty movement.
    To repeat, yet again, the basics: Trump ran a campaign that is thematically and strategically helpful to liberty. The Pauls failed because they could not or would not seriously engage the voting blocs needed to win the primaries, and would not aggressively confront the elite leadership, donors and media who obstruct alternatives to the 'mainstream' agenda. Trump showed the movement how to do both, which can be customized to our purposes in future cycles. As pointed out before, on several particulars Trump is definitely the net less statist alternative in the election. At least for 2016, strategically, he has been the best thing to happen to the liberty movement.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    To repeat, yet again, the basics: Trump ran a campaign that is thematically and strategically helpful to liberty. The Pauls failed because they could not or would not seriously engage the voting blocs needed to win the primaries, and would not aggressively confront the elite leadership, donors and media who obstruct alternatives to the 'mainstream' agenda. Trump showed the movement how to do both, which can be customized to our purposes in future cycles. As pointed out before, on several particulars Trump is definitely the net less statist alternative in the election. At least for 2016, strategically, he has been the best thing to happen to the liberty movement.
    How is advocating for the police state helpful to liberty?

    How is the Trump campaign partnership with the party elites helpful to liberty?
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  12. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    To repeat, yet again, the basics: Trump ran a campaign that is thematically and strategically helpful to liberty. The Pauls failed because they could not or would not seriously engage the voting blocs needed to win the primaries, and would not aggressively confront the elite leadership, donors and media who obstruct alternatives to the 'mainstream' agenda. Trump showed the movement how to do both, which can be customized to our purposes in future cycles. As pointed out before, on several particulars Trump is definitely the net less statist alternative in the election. At least for 2016, strategically, he has been the best thing to happen to the liberty movement.
    Trump shoved the neocons to the side and now he's waging war against the dominant political machine in this country. He's like a huge blender breaking down the solids for us to digest. . .

  13. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    To repeat, yet again, the basics: Trump ran a campaign that is thematically and strategically helpful to liberty. The Pauls failed because they could not or would not seriously engage the voting blocs needed to win the primaries, and would not aggressively confront the elite leadership, donors and media who obstruct alternatives to the 'mainstream' agenda. Trump showed the movement how to do both, which can be customized to our purposes in future cycles. As pointed out before, on several particulars Trump is definitely the net less statist alternative in the election. At least for 2016, strategically, he has been the best thing to happen to the liberty movement.
    Trump shoved the neocons to the side and now he's waging war against the dominant political machine in this country. He's like a huge blender breaking down the troublesome solids for us to digest. . .

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Trump shoved the neocons to the side and now he's waging war against the dominant political machine in this country. He's like a huge blender breaking down the solids for us to digest. . .
    Looks more like Trump brought the neocons into his campaign.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Peace&Freedom View Post
    To repeat, yet again, the basics: Trump ran a campaign that is thematically and strategically helpful to liberty.
    To repeat, yet again; that's nonsense.

    His policies and overall themes are anti-liberty, and the practical effect of his campaign was to crowd out pro-liberty candidates.

    ...conning otherwise libertarian/conservative-leaning Boobuses into supporting the status quo.

    As pointed out before, on several particulars Trump is definitely the net less statist alternative in the election.
    No, he isn't.

    Trump Opposition Research Thread
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 07-24-2016 at 11:17 AM.

  17. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Looks more like Trump brought the neocons into his campaign.
    You mean THESE GUYS?

    http://warontherocks.com/2016/03/ope...urity-leaders/

  18. #75
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  19. #76

  20. #77
    3 days later, this idiot still running against Republicans:



    ^^ he's talking about Mike Lee.
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  21. #78
    So Trump people don't think he is going neocon. But anti Trump people of course know better. It's like a republican telling a progressive that Bernie will not raise minimum wage.

    Also Libertarians and anti war libertarians are backing Trump. Walter Block, Justin Raimondo, Stefan Moleneux.
    Neocons hate him. Bill Kristol, Eric Ericson, Glen Beck.

    Nuff said on that front.

    edit:
    Cruz and Mike Lee made their bed. They are standing in Trumps way he is going to destroy them.
    Last edited by silverhandorder; 07-24-2016 at 11:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  22. #79
    Kashich is such a dolt. He couldn't support Trump, for Trump is not sufficiently anti Russian and anti Assad. I so despise the idiots in the GOP establishment.

  23. #80
    Even if Kasich helped it wouldnt matter. The only thing that would accomplish is hurting Kasich's future political goals.

    Trump is a buffoon and will lose in a landslide when it actually comes down to voting. Too much disunity in the GOP and his racist nonsense and inexperience will turn off a majority of independents. If the opponent wasnt Clinton hed be down by more than 10.



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  25. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    Even if Kasich helped it wouldnt matter. The only thing that would accomplish is hurting Kasich's future political goals.

    Trump is a buffoon and will lose in a landslide when it actually comes down to voting. Too much disunity in the GOP and his racist nonsense and inexperience will turn off a majority of independents. If the opponent wasnt Clinton hed be down by more than 10.
    Trump is up roughly 11% with independents. It's not working.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    Even if Kasich helped it wouldnt matter. The only thing that would accomplish is hurting Kasich's future political goals.

    Trump is a buffoon and will lose in a landslide when it actually comes down to voting. Too much disunity in the GOP and his racist nonsense and inexperience will turn off a majority of independents. If the opponent wasnt Clinton hed be down by more than 10.
    Yup, Clinton is an historically bad candidate, in a cycle which should favor the GOP (8 years of Dem rule).

    ...hence she found it necessary to run a ringer in the form of her old pal Donald, the only candidate worse than her, the only one she can beat.

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Yup, Clinton is an historically bad candidate, in a cycle which should favor the GOP (8 years of Dem rule).

    ...hence she found it necessary to run a ringer in the form of her old pal Donald, the only candidate worse than her, the only one she can beat.
    You never liked him how would you know if he is likable or not? Is it not sign enough that he is even pulling in some of RP coalition that he is likable? I could vomit on Romney and McCain yet The Donald is awesome in my book.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowlesy View Post
    Americans in general are jedi masters of blaming every other person.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhandorder View Post
    You never liked him how would you know if he is likable or not? Is it not sign enough that he is even pulling in some of RP coalition that he is likable? I could vomit on Romney and McCain yet The Donald is awesome in my book.
    Of all the GOP candidates, Donald consistently polled the worst against Hillary, all the way through the primaries.

    Donald has the highest unfavorables of any candidate, from either party, in modern history.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    Trump is up roughly 11% with independents. It's not working.
    Most Republicans (55 percent) said Trump's message made them feel hopeful and four in ten Republicans said it made them feel enthusiastic.

    Independents' responses weren't as positive, with 32 percent saying they felt hopeful and 25 percent with enthusiasm. Meanwhile, 63 percent of Democrats said what they saw and heard from Trump made them feel scared, echoing similar sentiments that many had expressed during the primary season. Thirty-two percent of independents also said they felt scared, equalling the number who said hopeful, and 29 percent of independents said it made them pessimistic.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-don...ground-states/

    This is without the Democrats having their convention yet, where they will be trying to engender feelings of happiness and sunshine. There is a problem with pushing doom and gloom and no significant solutions spelled out. The numerous articles I have read on the Clinton-Kaine ticket have been characterizing them as the antithesis of the Republican darkness and anger, the word optimism is used frequently.
    We will be known forever by the tracks we leave. - Dakota


    Go Forward With Courage

    When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
    when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage.
    So long as mists envelop you, be still;
    be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists
    -- as it surely will.
    Then act with courage.

    Ponca Chief White Eagle

  30. #86
    And let's not forget his abysmal fundraising, resulting from his alienation of most of the GOP (especially now Kasich/Cruz people).

    Hillary and her PACs have $84 million cash on hand; Donald and his have $22 million.

    Last month she raised about twice as much as he did.

    If you think Donald's poll numbers have hit bottom, wait a while.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    And let's not forget his abysmal fundraising, resulting from his alienation of most of the GOP (especially now Kasich/Cruz people).

    Hillary and her PACs have $84 million cash on hand; Donald and his have $22 million.

    Last month she raised about twice as much as he did.

    If you think Donald's poll numbers have hit bottom, wait a while.
    Okay, waited a few hours. As per the latest polls (which do not reflect the new DNC email scandal):

    CNN--- Trump 44%, Clinton 39%

    LA Times--- Trump 45%, Clinton 41%

    CBS--- Trump 42%, Clinton 41%

    Morning Consult--- Trump 44%, Clinton 39%

    If this is the bottom for Trump, the sky is the limit.
    -----Peace & Freedom, John Clifton-----
    Blog: https://electclifton.wordpress.com/2...back-backlash/

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-don...ground-states/

    This is without the Democrats having their convention yet, where they will be trying to engender feelings of happiness and sunshine. There is a problem with pushing doom and gloom and no significant solutions spelled out. The numerous articles I have read on the Clinton-Kaine ticket have been characterizing them as the antithesis of the Republican darkness and anger, the word optimism is used frequently.
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    And let's not forget his abysmal fundraising, resulting from his alienation of most of the GOP (especially now Kasich/Cruz people).

    Hillary and her PACs have $84 million cash on hand; Donald and his have $22 million.

    Last month she raised about twice as much as he did.

    If you think Donald's poll numbers have hit bottom, wait a while.
    Why do you want to tear people down? When McCain and Romney won I did not support them but I wasn't here 24/7 pushing liberal talking points. That is right liberal not libertarian. You would not n ow libertarian even if it smacked you.

    So what is your true motive?



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by moostraks View Post
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-don...ground-states/

    This is without the Democrats having their convention yet, where they will be trying to engender feelings of happiness and sunshine. There is a problem with pushing doom and gloom and no significant solutions spelled out. The numerous articles I have read on the Clinton-Kaine ticket have been characterizing them as the antithesis of the Republican darkness and anger, the word optimism is used frequently.
    The media is going to be in a real pickle for the next few months. Their bread and butter is selling doom and gloom and fear, but that plays right into Trump's favor. If they presented information instead of sensationalizing it, Trump's convention bump would be nil.

    So they have a choice. They can start presenting facts and back off the fear (which will probably cost them ratings), or they can keep their ratings now, get Trump elected, and blame everything bad on him for the next 4 years. I wonder which direction they'll choose??

    See, this is why I think Trump has a decent chance of winning in November. If people go into the polls feeling fearful, they have an authoritarian that promises to allay those fears. But the real action will be down-ballot where the GOP will get crushed. And I mean decimated. By the time 2020 comes around, the Dems will have huge majorities in both houses and will have captured governorships as well. If Trump wins, there's going to be a bloodletting.

    But if they let Hillary win, the GOP will have huge fundraising numbers and will pick up additional seats in 2018. So we have this odd circumstance of the parties needing the other side to win at the top of the ticket, but their side to win down-ballot. Strange times, indeed.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  35. #90
    All media has been doing as long as I can remember is excuse government growth and doom and gloom on anyone trying to shrink government. There is zero decision making on their part this election. They will continue in the same vein. This is because they are 90% communist/socialists. The alt right push back is fueled by this.

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