Trump Proposal To End Food Stamps Sends Dollar Stores Tumbling

[oyarde]

You could afford it, if the dollar had not been destroyed in value.

Meh, it's a moot discussion anyways...we're all going to displaced by automation and robotics in the next 20 years.

Danke will be living in my woods in a tepee when the planes fly themselves .

[XNavyNuke]

I don't see why Trump couldn't just do this via executive order to the USDA. Am I wrong?

I think that failing to spend all the money that Congress appropriates for a program would run afoul of the impoundment statutes. But, Congress does seem to punt on just about everything.

XNN

[Anti Federalist]

Danke will be living in my woods in a tepee when the planes fly themselves .

I look forward to that powwow.

[oyarde]

I look forward to that powwow.

If he behaves I will run him out an electric cord so he is not out there living like a savage .

[Swordsmyth]

I agree . Money is worse I think . I think if they hand out food many of them will not pick it up which should be a savings .

You may be right, what leaves me wondering which is worse is the power over people that choosing what food to give them entails.

[angelatc]

Must be mighty cold in your world, angelatc. Taking care of those truly in need is somewhere you diverge with Dr. Paul, apparently. Seems there's a lot of those examples surfacing from your posts lately.

Ron Paul says it isn't the government's job, remember?

[angelatc]

Good thing I never said it's the federal government's job, either. Clearly angelatc doesn't think it's a state government or local government responsibility either. $#@! em', let poor people die? Can't afford enough FRNs to live anymore so you don't get to?

You could say it's a charity responsibility and that would be fair, if the money hasn't been debased to the point that many can't afford to be charitable anymore.

Technically the states have the right per the constitution, but I don't think that any level of government should be redistributing wealth.

"OMG people will die if the government doesn't pass out free stuff!!!!" Just stop.

[devil21]

Technically the states have the right per the constitution, but I don't think that any level of government should be redistributing wealth.

"OMG people will die if the government doesn't pass out free stuff!!!!" Just stop.

No, I will not stop. Yes, the states do have the right to implement social services, if the population deems it necessary, per the 10th Amendment. If you don't wish to contribute then you can move somewhere else, since clearly you would have all the FRNs necessary to find greener pastures. It is not fedgov's purview to run such a program however, because it means one can not escape contributing. With all of the completely wasteful $#@! that money is pissed away on I have a hard time getting worked up about food assistance to poor people. Keep winnin' those voters over angela! We'll surely win hearts and minds with your platform.

Ron Paul says it isn't the government's job, remember?

8:50 mark. Ron Paul: "I don't think cutting food stamps for the poor is the right priority."

[angelatc]

I have a hard time getting worked up about food assistance to poor people. Keep winnin' those voters over angela! We'll surely win hearts and minds with your platform.

I have a hard time getting worked up about food assistance

And yet here you are. When you subsidize something you get more of it. SNAP subsidizes poverty.

Food stamps are a double gift to those corporations you detest. It allows them to pay less in wages and they get the income when the money is spent. The rich get richer off all those weepy feels you have bubbling up.

Its funny that you're accusing me of being rich since pretty much everybody here knows otherwise. I just have integrity.

With apologies to Jeff Foxworthy....If you're trying to win office based on a platform of handing out free stuff, you might be a liberal.

Taxation is theft.



Unemployment is nearing historical lows. Now is the perfect time to scale back the wealth redistribution and reform immigration simultaneously.

But people here are defending the "rights" of people to mooch off taxpayers? Just stop.

[devil21]

If you're trying to win office based on a platform of handing out free stuff, you might be a liberal.

Taxation is theft.

8:50 - RP: "I don't think cutting food stamps to the poor is the right priority."



In fact, Ron's entire position in this video is exactly the position that I put forth in this thread. A position that apparently you can't stand. Keep spinning yourself up over a tiny slice of the budget. Hannity's ratings depend on it!

(Your taxation comment is hilarious btw. You've posted about how the federal income tax is legal, required and necessary in previous threads. Schizo much? http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...l-Here%92s-Why)

[angelatc]

8:50 mark. Ron Paul: "I don't think cutting food stamps for the poor is the right priority."

Look at the date stamp on that. 2011 . It when the economy was in freefall - totally the opposite of what we have right now. Cutting benefits then was stupid and pointless. But now here we are on another upswing and there are people here passionately fighting to keep every single penny of welfare untouched? Just stop.

This is Ron Paul from the 2011 debate at the Reagan library:

Q: A long time ago, a fellow Texan was horrified to see young kids coming into the classroom hungry. The young student teacher later went on to be Pres. Lyndon Johnson. Providing nutrition at schools for children--is that a role of the federal government.

PAUL: Well, I'm sure, when he did that, he did it with local government, and there's no rules against that. That'd be fine. But that doesn't imply that you want to endorse the entire welfare state. No; it isn't authorized in the Constitution for us to run a welfare state. And it doesn't work. All it's filled up with is mandates. But, yes, if there are poor people in Texas, we have a responsibility--I'd like to see it as voluntary as possible--but under our Constitution, our states have that right--if they feel the obligation, they have a perfect right to. This whole idea that there's something wrong with people who don't lavish out free stuff from the federal government somehow aren't compassionate enough. I resist those accusations.

Also he adopted the RLC's statement:


A

s adopted by the General Membership of the Republican Liberty Caucus at its Biannual Meeting held December 8, 2000.

WHEREAS libertarian Republicans believe in limited government, individual freedom and personal responsibility;
WHEREAS we believe that government has no money nor power not derived from the consent of the people;
WHEREAS we believe that people have the right to keep the fruits of their labor; and
WHEREAS we believe in upholding the US Constitution as the supreme law of the land;
BE IT RESOLVED that the Republican Liberty Caucus endorses the following [among its] principles:
The US Department of Health and Human Services should be abolished, leaving decision making on welfare and related matters at the state, local or personal level. All Americans have the right to keep the fruits of their labor to support themselves, their families and whatever charities they so choose, without interference from the federal government.

All able-bodied Americans have the responsibility to support themselves and their families.

So if you want to stop giving me your $#@! because I'm advocating personal responsibility, allowing people to keep ALL the fruits of their labor and making charity entirely a personal decision, the forum would very much appreciate it.

Jesus it's like we're in 2007 again. We can't touch SNAP because people will die. Just stop.

[angelatc]

And now you're digging through old threads and moving goalposts. Yeah you're not worked up over losing benefits. This isn't personal at all.....we all believe that.

(Your taxation comment is hilarious btw. You've posted about how the federal income tax is legal, required and necessary in previous threads. Schizo much? http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...l-Here%92s-Why)

Taxation is theft. The definition of theft does not change simply because the king decreed that the henchmen shall be immune from prosecution.

[angelatc]

I'm a total snob and consider people who glean the majority of their information via video to be simple mouth breathers but since I'm apparently in Rome:



TLDW: You can't have open borders and a welfare state.

Me: Now is economically the perfect time to scale back welfare and reform immigration.

Liberals: If you try to force people back into producing value by reducing subsidies even a tiny bit people will DIE even though unemployment is falling like a stone! We don't pay taxes AND we vote for free stuff, dammit! You're a rich racist who hates children!

Me; Just stop.

[devil21]

Look at the date stamp on that. 2011 . It when the economy was in freefall - totally the opposite of what we have right now. Cutting benefits then was stupid and pointless. But now here we are on another upswing and there are people here passionately fighting to keep every single penny of welfare untouched? Just stop.

So what if it's 2011. RON PAUL SAYS CUTTING FOOD STAMPS IS NOT THE RIGHT PRIORITY, CUTTING THE MUCH BIGGER MONEY SUCKS IS THE RIGHT PRIORITY. That was when the debt was $14T. Now it's $21T and it's better now? Is that really your argument?

This is Ron Paul from the 2011 debate at the Reagan library:

Thanks for that quote. Did you actually read it? It's exactly what I said. You're flailing around now.

Also he adopted the RLC's statement:

Wait...so a 2011 video of RP himself is outdated but a 2000 position statement by some caucus is valid and timely? Your flailing as you lose this debate is kinda sad

So if you want to stop giving me your $#@! because I'm advocating personal responsibility, allowing people to keep ALL the fruits of their labor and making charity entirely a personal decision, the forum would very much appreciate it.

Jesus it's like we're in 2007 again. We can't touch SNAP because people will die. Just stop.

It is like 2007 again. You were a $#@!ty debater back then and you're still a $#@!ty debater now.

[angelatc]

So what if it's 2011. RON PAUL SAYS CUTTING FOOD STAMPS IS NOT THE RIGHT PRIORITY, CUTTING THE MUCH BIGGER MONEY SUCKS IS THE RIGHT PRIORITY. That was when the debt was $14T. Now it's $21T and it's better now? Is that really your argument?

So what if it's 2011? I'll type slower and louder:

The economy was in freefall. Cutting welfare at that point made no sense. This is not 2011. At this point it makes sense to scale back social spending and reform immigration simultaneously.

The debt is bigger now than it was then. I'm the one here proposing a spending cut, remember?

It is like 2007 again. You were a $#@!ty debater back then and you're still a $#@!ty debater now.

Perhaps but I'm still not the person in this argument angrily fighting against cutting welfare and the debt.

[devil21]

So what if it's 2011? I'll type slower:

The economy was in freefall. Cutting welfare at that point made no sense. This is not 2011. At this point it makes sense to scale back social spending and reform immigration simultaneously.

The debt is bigger now than it was then. I'm the one here proposing a spending cut, remember?

Perhaps but I'm still not the person in this argument angrily fighting against cutting welfare and the debt.

Oh so you're a Trumptard now. Got it. Debt doesn't matter anymore now that the Orange King is in office. Government stats like unemployment rate are totally true now too but were fake under Obama. Spend more on military but screw poor people. Etc etc. Stick to that script, darling.

[kahless]

The critics have good points on this one, a meal on food stamps costs $1.37, the average order from Blue Apron's meal-kit delivery service runs upwards of $10 per person. The kit cannot possibly address individual dietary restrictions - food allergies and the products no doubt will be loaded with preservatives.

A government contract with NYSE/Blue Apron, sounds like more establishment Corporatism. Trump again filling the swamp he was supposed to drain.

[dannno]

The critics have good points on this one, a meal on food stamps costs $1.37, the average order from Blue Apron's meal-kit delivery service runs upwards of $10 per person. The kit cannot possibly address individual dietary restrictions - food allergies and the products no doubt will be loaded with preservatives.

A government contract with NYSE/Blue Apron, sounds like more establishment Corporatism. Trump again filling the swamp he was supposed to drain.

Based on the OP it doesn't sound like they are talking about expensive food at all and it doesn't necessarily mean delivering 'meal kits'. I'm guessing these cost figures are wrong, and I'm also guessing that the figures for the per meal costs on food stamps are wrong too.

I'm basing this partly on the fact that Trump's critics in the media are wrong like 99% of the time.

[kahless]

Based on the OP it doesn't sound like they are talking about expensive food at all and it doesn't necessarily mean delivering 'meal kits'. I'm guessing these cost figures are wrong, and I'm also guessing that the figures for the per meal costs on food stamps are wrong too.

I'm basing this partly on the fact that Trump's critics in the media are wrong like 99% of the time.

F*cking media, yeah they got me, the media lies, every damn article I read recently made it sound like they are hiring Blue Apron. I had to go to the White House website and get the transcript of Mulvaney's comments.

And we call it a food box. Blue Apron is a private business, so I want to make clear: We are not hiring Blue Apron to do this. It’s a food box program, but people know what Blue Apron is.

As to the actual food box program, I think we’re using the current program for seniors as a model, but we’re getting rid of — by the way, in the budget, you will see that we’re getting rid of the current food box program for seniors. Been doing it for a long time, right? And that’s not because we’re not going to feed the seniors food. All we’re doing is folding those folks into the food box program. So we’re going from a food stamp — a SNAP program and a food box for seniors, and we’re putting everybody together in one program. So when you see that, please get clarifications.

But what I’ve been told from USDA, it’s 100 percent domestically grown food. And it has been pitched as being more nutritious than what may otherwise be.

Will have to wait and see what it is. The media may actually be right at some point but not just yet.

[angelatc]

Oh so you're a Trumptard now. Got it. Debt doesn't matter anymore now that the Orange King is in office. Government stats like unemployment rate are totally true now too but were fake under Obama. Spend more on military but screw poor people. Etc etc. Stick to that script, darling.

Hallucinate much?

I'm simply arguing a single position that would lower the debt and also push disenfranchised poor people back into the workforce. You're opposing it.

[acptulsa]

F*cking media, yeah they got me, the media lies, every damn article I read recently made it sound like they are hiring Blue Apron. I had to go to the White House website and get the transcript of Mulvaney's comments.



Will have to wait and see what it is. The media may actually be right at some point but not just yet.

@specsaregood Sodexho might have paid enough brib--er, I mean campaign contributions to get the contract.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/exp...cmte=C00361014

[kcchiefs6465]

The critics have good points on this one, a meal on food stamps costs $1.37, the average order from Blue Apron's meal-kit delivery service runs upwards of $10 per person. The kit cannot possibly address individual dietary restrictions - food allergies and the products no doubt will be loaded with preservatives.

A government contract with NYSE/Blue Apron, sounds like more establishment Corporatism. Trump again filling the swamp he was supposed to drain.

What's your source for the $1.37 figure?

A pack of chicken/pork hotdogs and a single serve ramen cup would cost that much.

I doubt most SNAP recipients are surviving on hotdogs and ramen.

Eta: I assume the $1.37 is based on $200 divided by thirty days in a month divided by three meals in a day.

I suppose that makes sense but the reality is that many SNAP recipients blow through the $200 allotment in the first week or two and then spend the rest of the month going to food banks to supplement their meals. As well as buying SNAP funds from drug addicts/people who prefer FRNs for fifty cents on the dollar.

I could go on and on about the abuses of the program.

[donnay]

What's your source for the $1.37 figure?

A pack of chicken/pork hotdogs and a single serve ramen cup would cost that much.

I doubt most SNAP recipients are surviving on hotdogs and ramen.

Eta: I assume the $1.37 is based on $200 divided by thirty days in a month divided by three meals in a day.

I suppose that makes sense but the reality is that many SNAP recipients blow through the $200 allotment in the first week or two and then spend the rest of the month going to food banks to supplement their meals. As well as buying SNAP funds from drug addicts/people who prefer FRNs for fifty cents on the dollar.

I could go on and on about the abuses of the program.

So what do you purpose? Snatch it away immediately and we get massive unrest that will create chaos and mayhem and Martial law. Food stamps and entitlements were created incrementally and it was done by design for control. It has to be taken away incrementally to show that people can work for the things they need and allow them to understand what self-worth feels like. There are people who only know how to live through handouts and have no idea the great feeling it is to be independent and productive.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

[kcchiefs6465]

So what do you purpose? Snatch it away immediately and we get massive unrest that will create chaos and mayhem and Martial law. Food stamps and entitlements were created incrementally and it was done by design for control. It has to be taken away incrementally to show that people can work for the things they need and allow them to understand what self-worth feels like. There are people who only know how to live through handouts and have no idea the great feeling it is to be independent and productive.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

Snatch it away? That would be what they do with my money. To quit giving somebody something is not the same as snatching it away.

And let's just be honest, Angela and devil can go back and forth until the new decade and precisely not a damn thing will change. You might see some Social Security and Medicaid reform but it will come at a time that is far too late while being far too little to be meaningful. The writing is on the wall.

[donnay]

Snatch it away? That would be what they do with my money. To quit giving somebody something is not the same as snatching it away.

And let's just be honest, Angela and devil can go back and forth until the new decade and precisely not a damn thing will change. You might see some Social Security and Medicaid reform but it will come at a time that is far too late while being far too little to be meaningful. The writing is on the wall.

They were doing that with our money long before we were born. Okay, so what would you suggest be done? I say you cannot take these entitlements away overnight, and if they did this country would break out in pockets of chaos and mayhem. We have already seen a little glimpse of it with Antifa and Black Live Matter.

It is never too late to right the wrongs.

[Ender]

The critics have good points on this one, a meal on food stamps costs $1.37, the average order from Blue Apron's meal-kit delivery service runs upwards of $10 per person. The kit cannot possibly address individual dietary restrictions - food allergies and the products no doubt will be loaded with preservatives.

A government contract with NYSE/Blue Apron, sounds like more establishment Corporatism. Trump again filling the swamp he was supposed to drain.

Absolutely agree- especially about food allergies etc.

This is NOT good.

[devil21]

Hallucinate much?

I'm simply arguing a single position that would lower the debt and also push disenfranchised poor people back into the workforce. You're opposing it.

You're arguing to cut a small percent of the budget that actually helps people while I'm arguing to not nibble around the edges and cut where it actually makes a difference. Will you go on record that the MIC budget should be cut?

[tod evans]

You're arguing to cut a small percent of the budget that actually helps people while I'm arguing to not nibble around the edges and cut where it actually makes a difference. Will you go on record that the MIC budget should be cut?

I will.

But..............

I'll stipulate that cutting the budgets of the domestic 'military' (kops of all stripes) and all social service programs including medicare/aid as well as federal pensions and food-stamps must be cut first and by a larger margin percentage wise.