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Thread: Clinton didn't start the birther thing 😇

  1. #1

    Clinton didn't start the birther thing 😇

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...clinton-228304

    After years of denying the legitimacy of Barack Obama’s presidency, it was only in the midst of his own presidential campaign that Donald Trump began falsely claiming Hillary Clinton was the true progenitor of the “birther” conspiracy theory claiming Obama was not born in the United States.

    But that’s swapping one discredited claim for another. Numerous fact checks, reports and interviews — in 2008 and 2011, when Trump revived the controversy — revealed that although some Clinton supporters circulated rumors about Obama’s citizenship, the campaign and Clinton herself never trafficked in it.

    “There has never been evidence that Clinton or her campaign started the birther rumors,” said Ben Smith, editor in chief of BuzzFeed, who as a POLITICO reporter in 2011 linked the origin of the “birther” movement to a fringe politician in Illinois. Some hardcore Clinton backers circulated the rumors in 2008, but the campaign itself steered clear.

    “As we reported, some of her supporters flirted with the idea in 2008 — but it has its origins in the fever swamps beginning in Illinois in 2004,” he said.

    In fact, birtherism, as it’s been called, reportedly began with innuendo by serial Illinois political candidate Andy Martin, who painted Obama as a closet Muslim in 2004. That spiraled into a concerted effort by conspiracy theorists to raise doubts about Obama’s birthplace and religion — and essentially paint him as un-American.

    Martin, who briefly launched a little-noticed presidential campaign last year, has disavowed the movement he’s often credited with starting, though he still foments similarly discredited doubts about Obama’s religion.

    Clinton’s 2008 hands are recoiling at Trump’s revisionism about their role in propagating the lie about Obama’s citizenship. “The suggestion that the Hillary campaign was pushing birtherism in 2008 is bunk. It's fiction,” said Phil Singer, who was Clinton’s 2008 press secretary.

    Much of the insinuation that Clinton had a hand in birtherism traces to the role of her then-senior strategist Mark Penn, who issued a memo in 2007 suggesting that Clinton emphasize Obama’s upbringing in Hawaii and Indonesia and paint him as fundamentally un-American. The memo never questioned Obama’s citizenship but did suggest highlighting his “lack of American roots.”

    “[H]is roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited,” Penn wrote. “I cannot imagine electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values.”

    The Clinton campaign never employed Penn’s strategy, and to this day it provokes sharply different perceptions among those who remember discussing it. Two sources with knowledge of the deliberations say Penn’s memo caused a “near-staff revolt” at the time it came up and contributed to factional infighting that would later hobble the campaign.

    Another source who recalled the discussion dismissed that perception as revisionist, arguing instead that the memo was barely considered at all. “This memo got about 30 seconds of discussion and the only recommendation was that she emphasize her Midwest upbringing,” the source said. “While the campaign may have disagreed on going negative on Barack Obama, this paragraph had nothing to do with those discussions and it did not in any cause any discussion of his citizenship.”

    Later, in the spring 2008, as Clinton’s chances of winning the Democratic primary grew thin, some of her hardcore supporters circulated rumors that Obama may not be a U.S. citizen, picking up on some of Martin’s innuendo and extending it further.

    “Barack Obama’s mother was living in Kenya with his Arab-African father late in her pregnancy. She was not allowed to travel by plane then, so Barack Obama was born there and his mother then took him to Hawaii to register his birth,” read one of those emails posted, at the time, by Snopes.com, a site that attempts to debunk internet rumors.

    Birtherism reportedly began with innuendo by serial Illinois political candidate Andy Martin, who painted Obama as a closet Muslim in 2004. | AP Photo
    On Friday, Clinton’s former senior aide Patti Solis Doyle acknowledged that a volunteer coordinator in Iowa forwarded a birther-related email. “Hillary made the decision immediately let that person go,” she said. “We let that person go. It was so beyond the pale of the campaign Hillary wanted to run and that we as a staff wanted to run that I called David Plouffe who was managing Barack Obama to apologize to say this is not coming from us, that this was rogue volunteer.”

    “The campaign nor Hillary did not start the birther movement, period,” she said.

    The rumors that Obama was born in Kenya dogged him as he entered the general election fight against John McCain (who similarly steered clear of the issue). Some conservative blogs picked up the rumor as well. To counter the claim, the Obama campaign released a copy of his short-form “certification of live birth” to the liberal Daily Kos.

    But it was that gesture that proved the durability of the birther conspiracy theories. Immediately, those who questioned Obama’s birth declared the short-form birth certificate insufficient proof or even a forgery. But the issue had clearly moved even further to the fringe and seemed to dissipate until Donald Trump revived it in 2011, demanding a “long-form” birth certificate.

    During a March 23, 2011 appearance on The View, Trump sparred with Whoopi Goldberg and Barbara Walters about Obama’s birth.

    “Why doesn’t he show his birth certificate?” Trump said. “I wish he would because I think it’s a terrible pall that’s hanging over him … There’s something on that birth certificate that he doesn’t like.”

    When panelists asked Trump why George W. Bush was never asked to produce his birth certificate, Trump added, “I’m not saying I’m a fan of George Bush. You know that better than anybody. But George Bush was born in this country.”

    For the next few months, Trump courted believers in the conspiracy and even advised advocates for state laws requiring future presidents to produce proof of their U.S. birth. Ironically, an Arizona bill on the matter, which Trump specifically advocated for, was vetoed by then-Gov. Jan Brewer – now a top Trump surrogate. Brewer questioned its requirement to force presidential candidates to release “baptismal or circumcision certificates” in lieu of a birth certificate.

    At that time, polling showed Republicans were far more inclined to believe that Obama wasn’t a U.S. citizen. At that time, as they do now, the Clintons forcefully disavowed the notion.



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  3. #2

    Morning Joe And Mika REMIND Everyone Who ACTUALLY Began Birtherism!!


  4. #3
    poliitco is an ultra leftist website

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by True_Libertarian View Post
    poliitco is an ultra leftist website

    its where the anti-trump people in here get their info.

  6. #5
    HRC is one of the most honest and transparent historic political leaders in our history, had she mothered the birther movement during very news pregnant 2007-08 election cycle, she would have already admitted by now.
    Let's not jump to conclusions and wait till media investigations are completed and all the facts are outed.




    Related

    Leak: Dem Megadonor Tells Colin Powell The Clintons ‘Hate’ Obama; Obama won't mind if HRC lost

    2008 Election: Hillary Clinton campaign was the original instigator of birther rumors

    Clinton campaign released a picture of Barack Obama in a turban during a 2006 visit to Kenya, apparently to encourage the rumors about his connections to Islam.


    Monday 25 February 2008
    Barack Obama's campaign team today accused Hillary Clinton's beleaguered staff of mounting a desperate dirty tricks operation by circulating a picture of him in African dress, feeding into false claims on US websites that he is a Muslim.Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe, described it as "the most shameful, offensive fear-mongering we've seen from either party in this election". Obama has had to spend much of the campaign stressing he is a Christian not a Muslim and did not study at a madrassa.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...hillaryclinton



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFREDHB-nQ

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by JK/SEA View Post
    its where the anti-trump people in here get their info.
    Still 1m time better than Infowars.com. Just saying

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Still 1m time better than Infowars.com. Just saying
    Uh, no. It's much worse. Conspiracy theory peddlers, while not a good thing, generally don't cause mass death, MSM outlets are another matter entirely.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by hells_unicorn View Post
    Uh, no. It's much worse. Conspiracy theory peddlers, while not a good thing, generally don't cause mass death, MSM outlets are another matter entirely.
    Who said anything about conspiracy theories? I am talking about out and out disinfo agent masquerading as alternative news source. Most people who consume politico know exactly what it is but very few of the people who read infowars know that it is garbage sh*t



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  11. #9
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    hillary is a complete POS... im sure she originated it

  12. #10
    The irony here is the birther movement stemmed from a PUMA movement that was spearheaded by Trump & Co. Talk radio took this by storm and Trump became a conservative over night while campaigning for Clinton.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Who said anything about conspiracy theories? I am talking about out and out disinfo agent masquerading as alternative news source. Most people who consume politico know exactly what it is but very few of the people who read infowars know that it is garbage sh*t
    Ya but Politico is 10% truth and 90% garbage, if you are claiming infowars is somewhere around 90% truth and 10% garbage (disinfo) then how is it worse? I thought the goal of infowars, according to you people, was simply to drive away other people from the truth by being outrageous - for the most part - and occasionally disrupt and control the movement.

    I mean, I'm not sure what you're defining as "better" here? Clearly if infowars has more accurate information then it is better in regard to being able to get a more accurate version of the news. Or are you saying that Politico is better morally because they don't support Donald Trump?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  14. #12
    Obama started the controversy in 1991 when he wrote in a book proposal sent to his publisher that he was born in Kenya.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ya but Politico is 10% truth and 90% garbage, if you are claiming infowars is somewhere around 90% truth and 10% garbage (disinfo) then how is it worse? I thought the goal of infowars, according to you people, was simply to drive away other people from the truth by being outrageous - for the most part - and occasionally disrupt and control the movement.

    I mean, I'm not sure what you're defining as "better" here? Clearly if infowars has more accurate information then it is better in regard to being able to get a more accurate version of the news. Or are you saying that Politico is better morally because they don't support Donald Trump?
    I wouldn't necessarily call what politico prints as lies, they just spin the truth whereas infowars outright lies to its readers. That to me is worse what politico does. I can read read a politico story and be able to separate the real story from the spin, not so much with infowhores. And that is the reason I think they are worse than politico. It also helps that they don't have a face painting, loudmouth, fear mongering, backstabbing, agitating buffoon in a suit as the face of the company.

  16. #14

    "Anchor Baby Mitt"

    Blogs4Brownback was pushing the Natural Born US Citizen issue in regards to Romney (Anchor Baby Mitt) in 2007.

    /https://blogs4brownback.wordpress.co...y-anchor-baby/
    http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/rea...i?ArtNum=17575
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  17. #15
    This is some of what Americas greatest flimflam man and the driving force behind the birther movement did:



    Those who lied the US into the Iraq war have nothing on Trump and his supporters.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by robert68 View Post
    This is some of what Americas greatest flimflam man and the driving force behind the birther movement did:



    Those who lied the US into the Iraq war have nothing on Trump and his supporters.
    I think the issue here is not that Trump didn't push the issue but that it was the Clinton campaign not him who started it. Trump just jumped on the bandwagon. Heck I was hearing rumbling about it way before 2011 around the time Clinton was still in the running.

    I will try and find a much earlier video about the issue that pointed the finger at Clinton.



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  20. #17

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I think the issue here is not that Trump didn't push the issue but that it was the Clinton campaign not him who started it. Trump just jumped on the bandwagon. Heck I was hearing rumbling about it way before 2011 around the time Clinton was still in the running.

    I will try and find a much earlier video about the issue that pointed the finger at Clinton.
    An email or two internal emails about it is not the Hillary Campaign starting it.

  22. #19

  23. #20
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    wow amazing how clinton started this $#@!... good for people to figure it out now so they dont blame trump

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Who said anything about conspiracy theories? I am talking about out and out disinfo agent masquerading as alternative news source. Most people who consume politico know exactly what it is but very few of the people who read infowars know that it is garbage sh*t
    Uh, no they don't. Your average Politico consumer is dumber than a sack of pebbles, they literally think they are getting actual news. Try talking to some people who regularly read that site if you doubt it. And couldn't care less about whether you call InfoWars a conspiracy theory hub or if you're one of these fruitcakes who thinks you are the master of conspiracies and Alex Jones is a diabolical gatekeeper keeping you from getting your due recognition, you say tomato and all that...

  25. #22

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by True_Libertarian View Post
    poliitco is an ultra leftist website
    And Breitbart is ultra right.

    Best to read both sides to find a particle of truth.
    There is no spoon.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    And Breitbart is ultra right.

    Best to read both sides to find a particle of truth.
    I remember the days of politico bashing ron and rand paul. I don't give credit to anything they say. They are fake political hacks.

    I find it funny that the hacks here cherry pick articles that promote their own agenda. Libertarianism is done for now. Its time to move on and embrace the next best thing, Donald Trump.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by True_Libertarian View Post
    I remember the days of politico bashing ron and rand paul. I don't give credit to anything they say. They are fake political hacks.

    I find it funny that the hacks here cherry pick articles that promote their own agenda. Libertarianism is done for now. Its time to move on and embrace the next best thing, Donald Trump.
    Spoken like a True Libertarian
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CPUd View Post
    Spoken like a True Libertarian
    TOS VIOLATION.

    REPORTED.

    this is a deliberate and willful act to incite.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JK/SEA View Post
    TOS VIOLATION.

    REPORTED.

    this is a deliberate and willful act to incite.
    Actually it was a joke, based on :
    " Libertarianism is done for now. Its time to move on and embrace the next best thing, Donald Trump."
    posted by someone with the username True_Libertarian
    “I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul

  32. #28
    Chester Copperpot
    Member

    glad to see the truth coming out that hillary started the birther thing

  33. #29
    The original "birther" - Obama 1991 - 2007 this bio was used by his literary agent:

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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