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Thread: YouTuber May Get 20(+?) Years For Airplane Stunt

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    This is the same argument that people make about carrying firearms. (Why do you carry a firearm when its so unlikely that you'll need it? Are you looking for a fight?)

    Jacob specifically said he was bringing a parachute because he was worried about flying over the mountains. And this is a legitimate concern, which this Hornfeld dude just completely dismissed. He spent half the video criticizing him for even bringing a parachute. He even further criticized him for bringing a "sport" parachute, which by any measure is a better life saving device over dangerous terrain than a standard parachute. (Why did you bring a rifle? Is a handgun not enough?)

    If I'm gonna fly over the mountains in a single engine, I'm bringing a goddamn parachute, and if I have a sport parachute, I'm bringing that. This hornsfeld dude - as I said at the start- was overly critical of this decision.




    Again, not once did Hornsfeld say it would have been fine to jump out if he had just "aviated a little longer". He did however spend a great deal of the video criticizing the decision to even bring a parachute.

    And by the way - its the pilot's decision and the pilot's decision alone for how long one needs to "aviate" before jumping out. If he felt safer to jump out at a higher altitude, and there was no substantial safety benefit to others by further "aviating" (and there wasn't), who the $#@! cares how long he "aviated" ?




    Just because it's "landable" does not mean its safe. 10% of forced landings are fatal - and that's in average conditions. In mountainous conditions, that number goes way higher.

    Jacob had no obligation to even "try" to land.

    Despite hornsfeld's handwaving of the "perfectly suitable landing areas", any forced landing in the mountains is going to be extremely dangerous.

    Neither Hornsfeld, you, nor the FAA, has any authority to try to tell Jacob that he had an obligation to "try" to land, in a situation where it would be extremely unlikely for anyone to be hurt by an abandoned aircraft.
    I remember hearing a story of a guy that walked around town all the time wearing a floatation life jacket and people thought he was nuts. He said that you never know when you would need it. And one day a flood happened and the life jacket saved his life.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    You've refuted yourself -- you were there.
    I realize that, and I also know how large the area is. Out in the middle of that area, there is probably an average of maybe less than one person at any given time. On the outskirts there is more activity, people doing day hikes and such. But there are no motor vehicles allowed, not even bicycles are allowed in the wilderness areas close to where he was, a little further east.

    The idea that he would hit a person is astronomically tiny, to the point I would barely consider it in sentencing.

    I'm not saying he shouldn't get prison time, the guy in the video said that the plane's engine could have come back on (although I have no proof of that, I think he was saying that if your engine actually failed that could potentially happen). That could have ended in disaster. The fact is, it didn't, maybe he made precautions for that, or maybe it was totally impossible. I just think 20 years is a bit steep.. and here's why.

    You also aren't allowed to have campfires in that area. Even if they are small and well contained in a fire pit. They even said a while back you had to have a permit for a gas stove, not sure if that is still the case after all the rains they had this year.

    Do you think a person who breaks the rules and has a small, well contained campfire or uses an unpermited gas stove should get 20 years in prison as well? What if they impede the investigation?

    And lastly, aren't there murderers who spend less time in jail?
    Last edited by dannno; 05-13-2023 at 02:35 PM.
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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    I remember hearing a story of a guy that walked around town all the time wearing a floatation life jacket and people thought he was nuts. He said that you never know when you would need it. And one day a flood happened and the life jacket saved his life.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Do you think a person who breaks the rules and has a small, well contained campfire or uses an unpermited gas stove should get 20 years in prison as well? What if they impede the investigation?

    And lastly, aren't there murderers who spend less time in jail?
    Well, I'm not going to any greater depth on this topic than "this was a stupid reckless stunt." I don't know what the proper punishment is.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Well, I'm not going to any greater depth on this topic than "this was a stupid reckless stunt." I don't know what the proper punishment is.
    It probably was. A reasonable doubt still exists based on what I've seen. There's a reasonable explanation for any of his decisions/actions.

    Like the fact that the plane was trimmed down when he jumped, it's certainly plausible he did that to reduce chance of hitting the tail when he jumped out.
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  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Jacob specifically said he was bringing a parachute because he was worried about flying over the mountains.
    Trevor Jacob is completely and utterly full of $#@!, in every respect (as he himself has now admitted on the record).

    He wasn't worried about any such thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    If I'm gonna fly over the mountains in a single engine, I'm bringing a goddamn parachute, and if I have a sport parachute, I'm bringing that. This hornsfeld dude - as I said at the start- was overly critical of this decision.
    He didn't criticize Jacob for taking a parachute. He criticized Jacob for saying, in effect, "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble". He was entirely justified in making that criticism, because it's a dangerously irresponsible thing to do, and a goddam stupid thing to say (and thereby promote that others do).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Neither Hornsfeld, you, nor the FAA, has any authority to try to tell Jacob that he had an obligation to "try" to land, in a situation where it would be extremely unlikely for anyone to be hurt by an abandoned aircraft.
    The hell we don't (and by "we", I mean myself and Hörnfeldt - $#@! the FAA). We can try to tell him whatever the hell we want, just as you can try to tell us whatever the hell you want.

    And the fact that the attention-seeking jackass stuffed a fire extinguisher up his pants and tried to come down as close to the crash site as he could is sufficient to conclude that the idiot had at least enough brain cells to know that what he was doing was in fact dangerous (and not merely to his personal property, which he intended to destroy anyway). Of course, if the crash had started a fire, his little extinguisher might not have been of much use by the time he got to it - but that just goes to show even further what an idiot he is, and what a stupidly dangerous stunt this was.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 05-13-2023 at 02:54 PM.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I just think 20 years is a bit steep
    He's not going to get anything close to twenty years. That's just the statutory maximum for the charge.

    According the the plea agreement, he can appeal any sentence greater than 2 years.

    He might not even get that (though by the same plea deal, the feds can appeal if the sentence is less than 16 months, IIRC).

    It's not out of the question that he only gets some kind of probation, if the feds don't feel like pushing it.

    He probably has the fact that he didn't hurt or kill anyone or start a fire to thank for that.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    A reasonable doubt still exists
    Based on the quick glance I've given to this, if I were on the jury, I would not agree there is any reasonable doubt that it was intentional and not an accident. Maybe I overlooked something (and I don't consider this headline worth any further investigation) but I doubt it.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Trevor Jacob is completely and utterly full of $#@!, in every respect (as he himself has now admitted on the record).

    He wasn't worried about any such thing.
    Irrelevant to any of the points I've made but sure.


    He didn't criticize Jacob for taking a parachute.
    He certainly assumed that Jacob took a parachute because he intended to bail. That counts as criticism for taking a parachute, in my book.

    He criticized Jacob for saying, in effect, "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble".
    He said nothing of the sort. For a guy that likes to say "He didn't say that", I would think you would have more appreciation for referencing what he actually said, than putting words in his mouth to try to make a point.

    What he actually said is

    "where the hell am I gonna land a plane, I'll frickin die. That's why I always fly with a parachute".

    The hell we don't (and by "we", I mean myself and Hörnfeldt - $#@! the FAA).
    The fact that you think you have the authority to tell someone that they have an obligation to try to land - in the mountains, is evidence that your head is so far $#@!ed up on this topic that it's beyond reason.

    You can argue all day long that this guy is an $#@! or whatever, but the real $#@! here is you, if you think you have any right to demand that someone try to make a forced landing versus the much safer option of just jumping out.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 05-13-2023 at 03:20 PM.
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  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Based on the quick glance I've given to this, if I were on the jury, I would not agree there is any reasonable doubt that it was intentional and not an accident. Maybe I overlooked something (and I don't consider this headline worth any further investigation) but I doubt it.
    Besides the fact that he confessed, it all does add up to a $#@! load of suspicious $#@!. But none of it is proof. I can understand how a jury could convict, but I wouldn't - I expect a higher standard of proof than most.

    I would also note, that a confession under coercion (e.g. a plea deal), doesn't really mean much to me.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 05-13-2023 at 03:29 PM.
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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    He certainly assumed that Jacob took a parachute because he intended to bail. That counts as criticism for taking a parachute, in my book.
    Ya it sounds like this guy regularly flies through what is called the "Nevada Triangle" of plane crashes, which includes in the eastern sierras in California. I think bringing a parachute with him is totally valid.

    The area exists because you have a slight elevation change in the mountains as you head east, up until you get to the highest mountains in the contiguous US, including Mt. Whitney. Then the elevation slams to the ground into the valleys below, which ultimately lead to death valley, which is below sea level. That's almost 15k elevation decent in a very short distance, and elevation changes of around 12k in a VERY short distance, less than a few miles. Prevailing winds from the west/northwest.

    Last edited by dannno; 05-13-2023 at 04:27 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Wrong. He's criticizing him for jumping out, period.

    What you are saying is what students are taught in school. which is: Fly the plane, but jumping out is ok too.

    No school on this planet would teach what he is saying which is, summarized: he was an idiot and/or $#@! for using a parachute at all.

    He said nothing about his problem with him jumping out is that he jumped out "too early".

    Based on the strength of how offended he was to the man's comment that he "brought a parachute", and the lack of any reason to suggest that he thought a parachute could be useful in this situation at all, absolutely: he expected the pilot to land the plane in this situation vs jump out.
    You sir are no lover of liberty.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    You sir are no lover of liberty.
    Yea, that conclusion logically follows. Thanks for the post.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Yea, that conclusion logically follows. Thanks for the post.
    You might want to do some research before you embarrass yourself again.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    You might want to do some research before you embarrass yourself again.
    Research, sure ok. Seems kind of vague, but I suppose research in general is a good idea.

    Any other insightful tips you may have?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Research, sure ok. Seems kind of vague, but I suppose research in general is a good idea.

    Any other insightful tips you may have?
    Don't make me open up a can of whoop-ass.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    Don't make me open up a can of whoop-ass.
    What's your favorite brand?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  21. #48
    It would be dangerously reckless to try a forced landing in the mountains, when you've got a parachute as an option.

    This is basically an irrefutable fact.

    Hornfeld and anyone else who thinks that's a good idea (let alone: obligatory) is an idiot.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Irrelevant to any of the points I've made but sure.
    *shrug* You cited what he said as if it mattered, so his being full $#@! (by his own admission, no less) seems pretty relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    He certainly assumed that Jacob took a parachute because he intended to bail. That counts as criticism for taking a parachute, in my book.
    He didn't criticize Jacob for taking a parachute ...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    He criticized Jacob for saying, in effect, "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble".
    He said nothing of the sort. For a guy that likes to say "He didn't say that", I would think you would have more appreciation for referencing what he actually said, than putting words in his mouth to try to make a point.

    What he actually said is

    "where the hell am I gonna land a plane, I'll frickin die. That's why I always fly with a parachute".
    Of course he said something of the sort. He wore a parachute in-flight while he was piloting. He bailed out right away at the first sign of a (faked-up) "problem". Then he said afterward (full quote): "I'm just so happy to be alive. I'm just kind of taking in what just happened. Well, where the hell am I going to land a freaking plane? I'm gonna die! That's why I always freaking fly with a parachute." IOW: "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble" is in effect what he was saying, as he clearly demonstrated by the fact that that is just exactly what he actually did. (That is what "in effect" means - it does not mean "literally".)

    But of course, he already knew "what just happened" (because he intentionally made it happen), he didn't need to know "where the hell [he was] going to land" (because he had no intention of landing), he wasn't "gonna die", and that is not why he "always freaking fl[ies] with a parachute" (he wore it whilel he was flying because he knew before he ever even took off that he was going to jump and let his plane crash - not because he was worried about any damn mountains).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    The fact that you think you have the authority to tell someone that they have an obligation to try to land - in the mountains, is evidence that your head is so far $#@!ed up on this topic that it's beyond reason.

    You can argue all day long that this guy is an $#@! or whatever, but the real $#@! here is you, if you think you have any right to demand that someone try to make a forced landing versus the much safer option of just jumping out.
    I do not demand that anyone try to make a forced landing if they genuinely decide they are unable to do so - but I absolutely do demand that someone in Jacob's situation (for real) should make a good-faith attempt to find a way to avoid abandoning a flying plane before doing so. Jacob did no such thing, and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for it - and so does anyone else who does what he did.

    But all that is actually irrelevant in this case, because no forced landing was ever necessary. Jacob did not decide that there were no viable landing spots. He did not decide that a forced landing was too dangerous. He did not decide that jumping was the much safer option. Every one of those supposed "decisions" was completely bogus. Every single one.

    If criticizing some lying, feckless jackass (or even just some random "someone") for doing something while flying a plane that no adequately trained and competent pilot ought to do (such as immediately bailing out the moment a potentially serious but not catastrophic problem occurs) makes me an $#@!, then so be it - I'm an $#@!. Mea maxima culpa. And if giving that same lying, feckless jackass a pass for his irresponsibly deliberate incompetence in the course of enacting a self-serving, attention-seeking hoax is what it takes for me to stop being an $#@!, then I guess I'll just have to resign myself to my stinky fate.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    *shrug* You cited what he said as if it mattered, so his being full $#@! (by his own admission, no less) seems pretty relevant.



    He didn't criticize Jacob for taking a parachute ...



    Of course he said something of the sort. He wore a parachute in-flight while he was piloting. He bailed out right away at the first sign of a (faked-up) "problem". Then he said afterward (full quote): "I'm just so happy to be alive. I'm just kind of taking in what just happened. Well, where the hell am I going to land a freaking plane? I'm gonna die! That's why I always freaking fly with a parachute." IOW: "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble" is in effect what he was saying, as he clearly demonstrated by the fact that that is just exactly what he actually did. (That is what "in effect" means - it does not mean "literally".)

    But of course, he already knew "what just happened" (because he intentionally made it happen), he didn't need to know "where the hell [he was] going to land" (because he had no intention of landing), he wasn't "gonna die", and that is not why he "always freaking fl[ies] with a parachute" (he wore it whilel he was flying because he knew before he ever even took off that he was going to jump and let his plane crash - not because he was worried about any damn mountains).



    I do not demand that anyone try to make a forced landing if they genuinely decide they are unable to do so - but I absolutely do demand that someone in Jacob's situation (for real) should make a good-faith attempt to find a way to avoid abandoning a flying plane before doing so. Jacob did no such thing, and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for it - and so does anyone else who does what he did.

    But all that is actually irrelevant in this case, because no forced landing was ever necessary. Jacob did not decide that there were no viable landing spots. He did not decide that a forced landing was too dangerous. He did not decide that jumping was the much safer option. Every one of those supposed "decisions" was completely bogus. Every single one.

    If criticizing some lying, feckless jackass (or even just some random "someone") for doing something while flying a plane that no adequately trained and competent pilot ought to do (such as immediately bailing out the moment a potentially serious but not catastrophic problem occurs) makes me an $#@!, then so be it - I'm an $#@!. Mea maxima culpa. And if giving that same lying, feckless jackass a pass for his irresponsibly deliberate incompetence in the course of enacting a self-serving, attention-seeking hoax is what it takes for me to stop being an $#@!, then I guess I'll just have to resign myself to my stinky fate.
    You seem to have this idea that I care whether or not Jacob staged this "accident", or that it matters to this discussion. I don't, and it doesn't. Hornsfeld's video - and this subsequent discussion - was based on what someone should do in Jacob's position assuming it was a real emergency.

    All of this is really very simple. See post #48. Hornsfeld is an idiot and you're an idiot for agreeing with him.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana
    Of course he said something of the sort. He wore a parachute in-flight while he was piloting. He bailed out right away at the first sign of a (faked-up) "problem". Then he said afterward (full quote): "I'm just so happy to be alive. I'm just kind of taking in what just happened. Well, where the hell am I going to land a freaking plane? I'm gonna die! That's why I always freaking fly with a parachute." IOW: "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble" is in effect what he was saying, as he clearly demonstrated by the fact that that is just exactly what he actually did. (That is what "in effect" means - it does not mean "literally".)
    Yea, again, he didn't say anything remotely of the sort, in effect or otherwise. You can interpret his actions however you like but you're simply expressing your hypocrisy by saying he "said" such a thing that he clearly did not say, based on your interpretation of his following actions. If you want to play the "He didnt say that game", at least follow your own rules.

    And as far as his actions are concerned, they also did not indicate he bailed out at the "first sign of trouble". If you want to rephrase that to "first sign of trouble [when over the mountains or other terrain impossible to safely land on]" then you'd at least be within the ball park of what he said. (Which is actually quite reasonable despite the derogatory intentions of the phrasing)

    If you knew anything about piloting an aircraft, you would know that these kinds of emergency decisions are made before you even start the engine. There are a 100 things that can go wrong in flight and a pilot has to know in advance what he is going to do when a specific emergency happens.

    Jacob in this case (assuming innocence) made the conscious decision to bail in case of an engine out over the mountains. Which is entirely reasonable.

    He had no obligation to aviate, weave a basket, or do any other waste of time in between the engine going out, and him bailing out. The decision that he wasn't going to land had already been made.

    So no, if someone in Jacob's position had done the exact same thing, it is not "bailing out at the first sign of trouble". It's following the pre-decided emergency checklist.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 05-13-2023 at 09:07 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    It probably was. A reasonable doubt still exists based on what I've seen. There's a reasonable explanation for any of his decisions/actions.

    Like the fact that the plane was trimmed down when he jumped, it's certainly plausible he did that to reduce chance of hitting the tail when he jumped out.
    A reasonable doubt as to what exactly? Didn't he already admit it was a publicity stunt?



    Twenty years is a long time considering nobody died and no (to my knowledge) property damage, but as to guilt or innocence that's settled unless I'm missing something.

    Edit: From the OP.

    By the time Lompoc resident Trevor Jacob bailed out of his single-engine airplane on November 24, 2021, Los Padres National Forest hadn’t seen but an inch and a tenth of rain since the previous May. Pilot-less, the Taylorcraft BL-65 flew into the side of a mountain, while Jacob crunched down into chaparral with a parachute — as about three cameras captured video, one of them on his selfie-stick. On Thursday, the Department of Justice announced that Jacob, a 29-year-old YouTube personality and former Olympic snowboarder, had reached an agreement to plead guilty to destroying and concealing the wrecked plane in order to obstruct the investigation into the crash. The obstruction charge could earn him 20 years in prison.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 05-14-2023 at 05:32 AM.
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  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    A reasonable doubt as to what exactly? Didn't he already admit it was a publicity stunt?



    Twenty years is a long time considering nobody died and no (to my knowledge) property damage, but as to guilt or innocence that's settled unless I'm missing something.

    Edit: From the OP.

    By the time Lompoc resident Trevor Jacob bailed out of his single-engine airplane on November 24, 2021, Los Padres National Forest hadn’t seen but an inch and a tenth of rain since the previous May. Pilot-less, the Taylorcraft BL-65 flew into the side of a mountain, while Jacob crunched down into chaparral with a parachute — as about three cameras captured video, one of them on his selfie-stick. On Thursday, the Department of Justice announced that Jacob, a 29-year-old YouTube personality and former Olympic snowboarder, had reached an agreement to plead guilty to destroying and concealing the wrecked plane in order to obstruct the investigation into the crash. The obstruction charge could earn him 20 years in prison.
    It may be settled for the courts but not for me.

    Confessions made under coercion, for me, hold no weight.

    If he's confessed somewhere besides a plea deal, then yea, absolutely.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    It may be settled for the courts but not for me.

    Confessions made under coercion, for me, hold no weight.

    If he's confessed somewhere besides a plea deal, then yea, absolutely.
    You've beaten this dead horse into a mudhole. Nobody in this thread believes in inquisitorial "confessions" that the prosecutors extract from people on threat of the medieval punishments at their disposal. Nevertheless, just because a lot of confessions are bogus doesn't mean there aren't true confessions. And every indication here is that this is obviously what happened here. Nothing about this event seems even remotely believable. It is not even remotely believable that this was an accident, as claimed. It is obvious he intentionally crashed the plane. Can you not see in his very demeanor that the bail-out from the airplane was the whole point?! What could possibly be more obvious? Even the editing of the video suggests this (in line with the content of the footage). It really needs no further explanation. Just the expressions on his face and his demeanor would be enough to convince me "beyond reasonable doubt" if I were sitting on a jury for this. His defense would have to introduce something truly extraordinary to convince me otherwise. And I'm not seeing anything extraordinary here. Every indicator reaffirms the obvious fact that he intended to crash the plane before he took off on the flight, and then lied about it.

    Stop arguing and go hit a punching bag to clear your mind, or something...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    You've beaten this dead horse into a mudhole.
    I was answering his question. Relax.

    He probably is guilty. Probably.

    I'm not gonna say he's guilty just because "his face looks guilty" lol jeez. Maybe that's enough for you - and honestly that's fine. It's not enough for me.

    Stop arguing and go hit a punching bag to clear your mind, or something...
    Honestly I have no interest in arguing the details of Jacob's guiltyness or lack thereof, and am happy to end that thread of this discussion right here.

    I understand you know damn sure he's guilty and I respect your opinion. I just disagree.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 05-14-2023 at 11:45 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    It would be dangerously reckless to try a forced landing in the mountains, when you've got a parachute as an option.

    This is basically an irrefutable fact.

    Hornfeld and anyone else who thinks that's a good idea (let alone: obligatory) is an idiot.
    @Occam's Banana

    If you do have a refutation of the above post, I would be very interested in hearing it. Because for the life of me, I cannot imagine any scenario where a reasonable person, with a parachute available, would try to make a forced landing in the mountains, when more than 10% of forced landings (on average terrain!) result in fatality.

    The only explanation for it would be a priority other than safety.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 05-14-2023 at 03:22 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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