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I realize that, and I also know how large the area is. Out in the middle of that area, there is probably an average of maybe less than one person at any given time. On the outskirts there is more activity, people doing day hikes and such. But there are no motor vehicles allowed, not even bicycles are allowed in the wilderness areas close to where he was, a little further east.
The idea that he would hit a person is astronomically tiny, to the point I would barely consider it in sentencing.
I'm not saying he shouldn't get prison time, the guy in the video said that the plane's engine could have come back on (although I have no proof of that, I think he was saying that if your engine actually failed that could potentially happen). That could have ended in disaster. The fact is, it didn't, maybe he made precautions for that, or maybe it was totally impossible. I just think 20 years is a bit steep.. and here's why.
You also aren't allowed to have campfires in that area. Even if they are small and well contained in a fire pit. They even said a while back you had to have a permit for a gas stove, not sure if that is still the case after all the rains they had this year.
Do you think a person who breaks the rules and has a small, well contained campfire or uses an unpermited gas stove should get 20 years in prison as well? What if they impede the investigation?
And lastly, aren't there murderers who spend less time in jail?
Last edited by dannno; 05-13-2023 at 02:35 PM.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
It probably was. A reasonable doubt still exists based on what I've seen. There's a reasonable explanation for any of his decisions/actions.
Like the fact that the plane was trimmed down when he jumped, it's certainly plausible he did that to reduce chance of hitting the tail when he jumped out.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Trevor Jacob is completely and utterly full of $#@!, in every respect (as he himself has now admitted on the record).
He wasn't worried about any such thing.
He didn't criticize Jacob for taking a parachute. He criticized Jacob for saying, in effect, "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble". He was entirely justified in making that criticism, because it's a dangerously irresponsible thing to do, and a goddam stupid thing to say (and thereby promote that others do).
The hell we don't (and by "we", I mean myself and Hörnfeldt - $#@! the FAA). We can try to tell him whatever the hell we want, just as you can try to tell us whatever the hell you want.
And the fact that the attention-seeking jackass stuffed a fire extinguisher up his pants and tried to come down as close to the crash site as he could is sufficient to conclude that the idiot had at least enough brain cells to know that what he was doing was in fact dangerous (and not merely to his personal property, which he intended to destroy anyway). Of course, if the crash had started a fire, his little extinguisher might not have been of much use by the time he got to it - but that just goes to show even further what an idiot he is, and what a stupidly dangerous stunt this was.
Last edited by Occam's Banana; 05-13-2023 at 02:54 PM.
He's not going to get anything close to twenty years. That's just the statutory maximum for the charge.
According the the plea agreement, he can appeal any sentence greater than 2 years.
He might not even get that (though by the same plea deal, the feds can appeal if the sentence is less than 16 months, IIRC).
It's not out of the question that he only gets some kind of probation, if the feds don't feel like pushing it.
He probably has the fact that he didn't hurt or kill anyone or start a fire to thank for that.
Based on the quick glance I've given to this, if I were on the jury, I would not agree there is any reasonable doubt that it was intentional and not an accident. Maybe I overlooked something (and I don't consider this headline worth any further investigation) but I doubt it.
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
Irrelevant to any of the points I've made but sure.
He certainly assumed that Jacob took a parachute because he intended to bail. That counts as criticism for taking a parachute, in my book.He didn't criticize Jacob for taking a parachute.
He said nothing of the sort. For a guy that likes to say "He didn't say that", I would think you would have more appreciation for referencing what he actually said, than putting words in his mouth to try to make a point.He criticized Jacob for saying, in effect, "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble".
What he actually said is
"where the hell am I gonna land a plane, I'll frickin die. That's why I always fly with a parachute".
The fact that you think you have the authority to tell someone that they have an obligation to try to land - in the mountains, is evidence that your head is so far $#@!ed up on this topic that it's beyond reason.The hell we don't (and by "we", I mean myself and Hörnfeldt - $#@! the FAA).
You can argue all day long that this guy is an $#@! or whatever, but the real $#@! here is you, if you think you have any right to demand that someone try to make a forced landing versus the much safer option of just jumping out.
Last edited by TheTexan; 05-13-2023 at 03:20 PM.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Besides the fact that he confessed, it all does add up to a $#@! load of suspicious $#@!. But none of it is proof. I can understand how a jury could convict, but I wouldn't - I expect a higher standard of proof than most.
I would also note, that a confession under coercion (e.g. a plea deal), doesn't really mean much to me.
Last edited by TheTexan; 05-13-2023 at 03:29 PM.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Ya it sounds like this guy regularly flies through what is called the "Nevada Triangle" of plane crashes, which includes in the eastern sierras in California. I think bringing a parachute with him is totally valid.
The area exists because you have a slight elevation change in the mountains as you head east, up until you get to the highest mountains in the contiguous US, including Mt. Whitney. Then the elevation slams to the ground into the valleys below, which ultimately lead to death valley, which is below sea level. That's almost 15k elevation decent in a very short distance, and elevation changes of around 12k in a VERY short distance, less than a few miles. Prevailing winds from the west/northwest.
Last edited by dannno; 05-13-2023 at 04:27 PM.
"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q
"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul
"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
It would be dangerously reckless to try a forced landing in the mountains, when you've got a parachute as an option.
This is basically an irrefutable fact.
Hornfeld and anyone else who thinks that's a good idea (let alone: obligatory) is an idiot.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
*shrug* You cited what he said as if it mattered, so his being full $#@! (by his own admission, no less) seems pretty relevant.
He didn't criticize Jacob for taking a parachute ...
Of course he said something of the sort. He wore a parachute in-flight while he was piloting. He bailed out right away at the first sign of a (faked-up) "problem". Then he said afterward (full quote): "I'm just so happy to be alive. I'm just kind of taking in what just happened. Well, where the hell am I going to land a freaking plane? I'm gonna die! That's why I always freaking fly with a parachute." IOW: "I always wear a parachute in-flight while I'm piloting so I can just bail out right away at the first sign of trouble" is in effect what he was saying, as he clearly demonstrated by the fact that that is just exactly what he actually did. (That is what "in effect" means - it does not mean "literally".)
But of course, he already knew "what just happened" (because he intentionally made it happen), he didn't need to know "where the hell [he was] going to land" (because he had no intention of landing), he wasn't "gonna die", and that is not why he "always freaking fl[ies] with a parachute" (he wore it whilel he was flying because he knew before he ever even took off that he was going to jump and let his plane crash - not because he was worried about any damn mountains).
I do not demand that anyone try to make a forced landing if they genuinely decide they are unable to do so - but I absolutely do demand that someone in Jacob's situation (for real) should make a good-faith attempt to find a way to avoid abandoning a flying plane before doing so. Jacob did no such thing, and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for it - and so does anyone else who does what he did.
But all that is actually irrelevant in this case, because no forced landing was ever necessary. Jacob did not decide that there were no viable landing spots. He did not decide that a forced landing was too dangerous. He did not decide that jumping was the much safer option. Every one of those supposed "decisions" was completely bogus. Every single one.
If criticizing some lying, feckless jackass (or even just some random "someone") for doing something while flying a plane that no adequately trained and competent pilot ought to do (such as immediately bailing out the moment a potentially serious but not catastrophic problem occurs) makes me an $#@!, then so be it - I'm an $#@!. Mea maxima culpa. And if giving that same lying, feckless jackass a pass for his irresponsibly deliberate incompetence in the course of enacting a self-serving, attention-seeking hoax is what it takes for me to stop being an $#@!, then I guess I'll just have to resign myself to my stinky fate.
You seem to have this idea that I care whether or not Jacob staged this "accident", or that it matters to this discussion. I don't, and it doesn't. Hornsfeld's video - and this subsequent discussion - was based on what someone should do in Jacob's position assuming it was a real emergency.
All of this is really very simple. See post #48. Hornsfeld is an idiot and you're an idiot for agreeing with him.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
Yea, again, he didn't say anything remotely of the sort, in effect or otherwise. You can interpret his actions however you like but you're simply expressing your hypocrisy by saying he "said" such a thing that he clearly did not say, based on your interpretation of his following actions. If you want to play the "He didnt say that game", at least follow your own rules.Originally Posted by Occam's Banana
And as far as his actions are concerned, they also did not indicate he bailed out at the "first sign of trouble". If you want to rephrase that to "first sign of trouble [when over the mountains or other terrain impossible to safely land on]" then you'd at least be within the ball park of what he said. (Which is actually quite reasonable despite the derogatory intentions of the phrasing)
If you knew anything about piloting an aircraft, you would know that these kinds of emergency decisions are made before you even start the engine. There are a 100 things that can go wrong in flight and a pilot has to know in advance what he is going to do when a specific emergency happens.
Jacob in this case (assuming innocence) made the conscious decision to bail in case of an engine out over the mountains. Which is entirely reasonable.
He had no obligation to aviate, weave a basket, or do any other waste of time in between the engine going out, and him bailing out. The decision that he wasn't going to land had already been made.
So no, if someone in Jacob's position had done the exact same thing, it is not "bailing out at the first sign of trouble". It's following the pre-decided emergency checklist.
Last edited by TheTexan; 05-13-2023 at 09:07 PM.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
A reasonable doubt as to what exactly? Didn't he already admit it was a publicity stunt?
Twenty years is a long time considering nobody died and no (to my knowledge) property damage, but as to guilt or innocence that's settled unless I'm missing something.
Edit: From the OP.
By the time Lompoc resident Trevor Jacob bailed out of his single-engine airplane on November 24, 2021, Los Padres National Forest hadn’t seen but an inch and a tenth of rain since the previous May. Pilot-less, the Taylorcraft BL-65 flew into the side of a mountain, while Jacob crunched down into chaparral with a parachute — as about three cameras captured video, one of them on his selfie-stick. On Thursday, the Department of Justice announced that Jacob, a 29-year-old YouTube personality and former Olympic snowboarder, had reached an agreement to plead guilty to destroying and concealing the wrecked plane in order to obstruct the investigation into the crash. The obstruction charge could earn him 20 years in prison.
Last edited by jmdrake; 05-14-2023 at 05:32 AM.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
You've beaten this dead horse into a mudhole. Nobody in this thread believes in inquisitorial "confessions" that the prosecutors extract from people on threat of the medieval punishments at their disposal. Nevertheless, just because a lot of confessions are bogus doesn't mean there aren't true confessions. And every indication here is that this is obviously what happened here. Nothing about this event seems even remotely believable. It is not even remotely believable that this was an accident, as claimed. It is obvious he intentionally crashed the plane. Can you not see in his very demeanor that the bail-out from the airplane was the whole point?! What could possibly be more obvious? Even the editing of the video suggests this (in line with the content of the footage). It really needs no further explanation. Just the expressions on his face and his demeanor would be enough to convince me "beyond reasonable doubt" if I were sitting on a jury for this. His defense would have to introduce something truly extraordinary to convince me otherwise. And I'm not seeing anything extraordinary here. Every indicator reaffirms the obvious fact that he intended to crash the plane before he took off on the flight, and then lied about it.
Stop arguing and go hit a punching bag to clear your mind, or something...
Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28
I was answering his question. Relax.
He probably is guilty. Probably.
I'm not gonna say he's guilty just because "his face looks guilty" lol jeez. Maybe that's enough for you - and honestly that's fine. It's not enough for me.
Honestly I have no interest in arguing the details of Jacob's guiltyness or lack thereof, and am happy to end that thread of this discussion right here.Stop arguing and go hit a punching bag to clear your mind, or something...
I understand you know damn sure he's guilty and I respect your opinion. I just disagree.
Last edited by TheTexan; 05-14-2023 at 11:45 AM.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
@Occam's Banana
If you do have a refutation of the above post, I would be very interested in hearing it. Because for the life of me, I cannot imagine any scenario where a reasonable person, with a parachute available, would try to make a forced landing in the mountains, when more than 10% of forced landings (on average terrain!) result in fatality.
The only explanation for it would be a priority other than safety.
Last edited by TheTexan; 05-14-2023 at 03:22 PM.
- Kim KardashianIt's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!
My pronouns are he/him/his
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