Anheuser-Busch orders up to 800 Hydrogen Trucks, US National Hydrogen Network Rollout begins

[Peace Piper]

https://twitter.com/AnheuserBusch/st...51505871048704

LA Times: Nikola, a Tesla competitor, scores big electric truck order from Anheuser-Busch

5/3/18: Anheuser-Busch, which ordered 40 electric semi trucks from Tesla last December, on Thursday upped its bet on a green fleet by placing a substantially larger order with a competitor.

The beer company said it plans to buy as many as 800 trucks from Nikola Motor Co. Where Tesla uses batteries in its powertrain technology, Phoenix-based Nikola uses hydrogen fuel cells. In both cases, the vehicles generate no tailpipe pollutants.

Tesla and Nikola are vying for share in a market dominated by diesel-fueled trucks.

Ingrid De Ryck, Anheuser-Busch's vice president of procurement and sustainability, said the company plans to convert its entire 800-vehicle company-owned fleet to vehicles that emit no pollution or greenhouse gases by 2025.

The company "plans to reduce carbon emissions by 25% over our entire value chain by 2025," De Ryck said. "This will help us reach our sustainability goals."

The market for heavy duty semi trucks is small and slow-growing. In 2016, 249,952 big trucks were sold in the U.S., the majority using conventional diesel fuel, according to IHS Markit. That represents growth of only 0.6% over the previous year. Alternative-powertrain companies such as Nikola and Tesla have to displace traditional truck makers to gain traction.

"This [order] is a very big deal, and it should be a big kick in the pants for Nikola on its path moving forward," said Antii Lindstrom, who covers trucks for IHS Markit...snip

...But hardly any hydrogen refueling stations exist. Working with Anheuser-Busch, and using its own capital, Nikola plans to build 28 fueling stations along the beer company's heaviest routes. The stations will be usable by fuel-cell vehicles made by other companies. Nikola plans to process its own hydrogen fuel at each station with on-site solar power, wind power or by buying electricity created through renewable sources such as hydropower....more: http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...502-story.html

Fuel Cell vs. Diesel Acceleration Demonstration

[Jamesiv1]

If burning diesel is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[Danke]

If burning diesel is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Predictable response.

[Zippyjuan]

Noting that there aren't currently any fueling stations even available for the trucks. They hope to have just two opened later this year.

[Peace Piper]

Noting that there aren't currently any fueling stations even available for the trucks. They hope to have just two opened later this year.

And this kind of thinking is why China is going to lead the entire hydrogen/fuel cell industry.

If you always think it can't be done, you'll find that it can't be done.

But if. like the Americans that built an Interstate Highway System (mostly completed after just 15 years, less time than has been wasted in Afghanistan), you can imagine that it can be done, then it can.

One huge reason the US has failed over the last 30-40 years is that it has been infected with the "Can't Do" kind of thinking so well displayed by this Zippy character.

Congratulations Debby Downers and Zippies- you've watched the US Treasury blown on world hegemony. While your own bridges fall down and your roadways are filled with potholes, the US manages to build Compressed Natural Gas Stations in Afghanistan for $43 Million dollars.

Too bad there are no Ron Paul's in government to tell the truth anymore.

[Zippyjuan]

And this kind of thinking is why China is going to lead the entire hydrogen/fuel cell industry.

If you always think it can't be done, you'll find that it can't be done.

But if. like the Americans that built an Interstate Highway System (mostly completed after just 15 years, less time than has been wasted in Afghanistan), you can imagine that it can be done, then it can.

One huge reason the US has failed over the last 30-40 years is that it has been infected with the "Can't Do" kind of thinking so well displayed by this Zippy character.

Congratulations Debby Downers and Zippies- you've watched the US Treasury blown on world hegemony. While your own bridges fall down and your roadways are filled with potholes, the US manages to build Compressed Natural Gas Stations in Afghanistan for $43 Million dollars.

Too bad there are no Ron Paul's in government to tell the truth anymore.

Don't say it can't be done. Just that we aren't there yet. Edison's light bulbs weren't very useful until he built electrical generators to power them.

[angelatc]

Tesla is sooo screwed.

[specsaregood]

Noting that there aren't currently any fueling stations even available for the trucks. They hope to have just two opened later this year.

And it is noted and addressed in the OP article.

..But hardly any hydrogen refueling stations exist. Working with Anheuser-Busch, and using its own capital, Nikola plans to build 28 fueling stations along the beer company's heaviest routes. The stations will be usable by fuel-cell vehicles made by other companies.

Wow, no govt involvement required, imagine that.

[Zippyjuan]

And it is noted and addressed in the OP article.


Wow, no govt involvement required, imagine that.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...bs/1076439001/

Milton alluded to "complex" financial incentives tied to the announcement but did not elaborate. Buckeye said it will rebate 49 percent of the sales taxes related to the construction and operation of the facility.

Susan Marie, a spokeswoman for the Arizona Commerce Authority, said Arizona will provide up to $46.5 million in job-training and tax-abatement incentives, contingent on Nikola hiring employees and investing in the facility. More than $41 million of that would be in the form of tax credits.

[specsaregood]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/mone...bs/1076439001/

That seems to have to do with the manufacturing facility rather than the refueling stations that you complained about which is what I was referring to. But fair enough, no big business gets done without govts giving unfair tax abatements and credits any longer.

[Mach]

https://www.computerworld.com/articl...ler-truck.html

Nikola Motor gets $2.3B worth of preorders for 2,000HP, electric semi-trailer truck

By Lucas Mearian

Senior Reporter, Computerworld | Jun 15, 2016

After announcing last month it is building a 2,000 horsepower, hybrid semitrailer truck, the Nikola Motor Co. revealed this week it has more than 7,000 paid reservations that would translate into $2.3 billion in truck sales when it ships.

Nikola Motor founder and CEO Trevor Milton also announced that the electric class 8 semi-truck, dubbed "Nikola One" will be unveiled Dec. 2 in Salt Lake City. The truck will retail for $375,000, which is nearly double the price for a standard diesel semi-trailer. The company said it will offer a leasing plan that will run from $4,000 to $5,000 per month, depending on the configuration and options a customer chooses.

The Nikola One semi-trailer will be capable of pulling a gross weight of 80,000 pounds and will have more than a 1,200-mile range between stops, the company said.

"The reason for the horsepower increase is that with electric motors you only use what you need unlike a diesel engine, so most of the time, you will only need 400 to 500 horsepower out of the 2,000 HP," a spokesperson for Nikola Motor Co. said in an email reply to Computerworld. "You don't waste any energy that you don't use with electric motors. But when going up a hill... with the extra horsepower, the electric allows you to climb to full speed limit."

The semi-trailer will sport a 320 kilowatt hour (kWh) lithium-ion battery pack, along with a 150-gallon fuel-agnostic turbine, which can be configured to run on various kinds of fuel, including diesel or petroleum. The standard model will have a natural gas tank.

Nikola claims the semi-trailer will cost half as much to operate as traditional diesel trucks. The company also said the truck's lithium-ion battery will never require recharging because the turbine will charge it as the vehicle drives, just like other consumer hybrid vehicles.

The Nikola One will also sport regenerative braking technology, an energy recovery mechanism that will slow the vehicle by converting kinetic energy into a form that can be stored until needed. Regenerative braking is more efficient than traditional braking, which uses friction to slow a vehicle and wears braking systems faster.

Nikola began taking $1,500 refundable reservations for the truck a month ago, offering 100,000 gallons of free natural gas to the first 5,000 trucks reserved. The natural gas can be retrieved through a network of compressed natural gas (CNG) stations throughout the U.S.

Combined with the electric motor, 100,000 gallons of natural gas is enough for a million work miles. "This offsets the entire cost of the truck, allowing for a return on the investment in first month," the spokesperson said.

"Our technology is 10-15 years ahead of any other [truck maker] in fuel efficiencies, MPG and emissions," Milton said in a statement. "We are the only [truck maker] to have a near zero emission truck and still outperform diesel trucks running at 80,000 pounds. To have over 7,000 reservations totaling more than 2.3 billion dollars, with five months remaining until our unveiling ceremony, is unprecedented."

Along with the Nikola One semi-trailer, the company also revealed plans to release a 520HP 4x4 utility vehicle (UTV) that will boast more than 480 foot pounds of torque with a 125-mile range. "You only use what [horsepower] you need, but when you need it, it comes in handy for safety and performance," the spokesperson said.

The UTV, dubbed "Nikola Zero," is a 100% electric-powered, zero-emission, four-passenger, side-by-side that has 20 inches of suspension clearance on all four wheels and 14.5 inches of overall ground clearance.

The Nikola Zero will retail for $42,000. The first 5,000 vehicle reservations will get a $5,000 discount on the suggested retail price, the company said.

UTV
https://nikolamotor.com/nzt

[Zippyjuan]

more than 7,000 paid reservations that would translate into $2.3 billion in truck sales when it ships.

That is over $300,000 each.

Compared to:

http://www.fleetowner.com/blog/big-rigs-big-costs

Everyone in trucking today knows it costs big bucks not only to acquire big rigs but to keep them running as well – something that’s been discussed in this space more than a time or two.

To help provide some further clarity on this subject, moving giant Atlas Van Lines recently pulled together an infographic to illustrate some of their findings with regards to the cost of operating tractor-trailers these days, which you can see on the right.

A few of the more eye-opening data points include:

Filling a big rig's gas tank is equivalent to filling 18 mid-size cars.
Long haul drivers average 100,000-110,000 miles per year.
The cost of running one big rig could be more than $185,000 per year.
Two-thirds of the costs are vehicle based, while the other third is driver-based.
Sandeep Kar, global director of research, automotive and transportation for consulting firm Frost & Sullivan, is another noted expert I’ve talked to many times about how new truck sticker prices are affecting total cost or operation or TCO calculations for fleets – an issue you can read more about here.

(You can also get his take on overall global truck sales trends here.)

It’s no surprise, either, that the cost of trucking is high these days in part because the average cost of a new tractor-trailer is now estimated to range between $140,000 and $175,000, according to data analyzed by Frost & Sullivan – anywhere from $110,000 to $125,000 for a new tractor and $30,000 to $50,000 for a new trailer.

[specsaregood]

That is over $300,000 each.
http://www.fleetowner.com/blog/big-rigs-big-costs

depending on how much the hydrogen fuel costs, that might able to be made up in a year or 2.

[Peace Piper]

Stan "The Energy Man" Osserman interviews Nikola Motor CEO Trevor Milton



Anheuser-Busch Nikola Truck Order Puts U.S. on Hydrogen Highway

Trucks.com: Gasoline and diesel remain the preferred fuels for passenger cars and commercial vehicles respectively. All the fear of “peak oil” limiting supply and causing prices to soar proved false. Now when the price of oil rises above crosses $50 a barrel, petroleum companies in the U.S. and Canada turn on the spigots.

However, last week’s order of 800 Nikola Motor fuel cell heavy-duty trucks by Anheuser-Busch is a sign that the U.S. is finally headed for the on-ramp to the hydrogen highway. Hurdles are still to come, but the move by a company that ships more beer than anyone in the U.S. is an important market signal.

This is a real business deal, valued at up to $720 million. The brewer will take delivery of some test vehicles in late 2019 and then will put Nikola trucks into full service the following year. Anheuser-Busch and Nikola have identified 28 locations along the brewer’s main shipping routes to install hydrogen filling stations. The cost of building out a specific infrastructure for Anheuser-Busch is included in the innovative lease contract.

Nikola is pursuing similar deals with large motor carriers such as U.S. Xpress. It’s using these deals to transform key shipping lanes into hydrogen highways. Other customers will likely follow, knowing their trucks will have adequate refueling stops...snip

...There are other indicators that this is the start of the hydrogen transport age. Those skeptical of Nikola should watch Toyota, one of the world’s largest and most sophisticated industrial enterprises.

The automaker is testing a hydrogen fuel cell heavy-duty truck in Southern California and is expanding fuel cell research globally. It’s proving out a modular approach where the fuel stack in Toyota’s Mirai sedan can be used in various configurations for vehicles ranging from a forklift to a pickup truck to a big rig. It’s also building a fleet of fuel cell buses for use in Tokyo.

“Toyota believes in the viability and scalability of hydrogen fuel cell electric technology,” Doug Murtha, the company’s U.S. group vice president of corporate strategy and planning, told Trucks.com. “The Nikola and Anheuser-Busch announcement reaffirms that viability. We are encouraged that others recognize the great promise of hydrogen as a greenhouse gas-free solution in heavy trucking.”

There are other factors to watch...more: https://www.trucks.com/2018/05/07/an...rogen-highway/

They said a National Hydrogen network couldn't/wouldn't ever be built. So much for the naysayers.

The Hydrogen Revolution is well underway (especially in China).

Related: Toyota to Build the World's First Megawatt-scale 100% Renewable Power and Hydrogen Generation Station

Tri-Gen will generate on-site hydrogen to supply Toyota Fuel Cell Vehicles, including Project Portal Heavy-Duty Truck Concept

Toyota Logistics Services at the Long Beach Port will become first Toyota facility in North America to use 100% Renewable Power

LONG BEACH, Calif. (Nov. 30, 2017) – Toyota Motor North America, Inc. (TMNA) will build the world’s first megawatt-scale carbonate fuel cell power generation plant with a hydrogen fueling station to support its operations at the Port of Long Beach. Announced today at the Los Angeles Auto Show, the Tri-Gen facility will use bio-waste sourced from California agricultural waste to generate water, electricity and hydrogen.

When it comes online in 2020, Tri-Gen will generate approximately 2.35 megawatts of electricity and 1.2 tons of hydrogen per day, enough to power the equivalent of about 2,350 average-sized homes and meet the daily driving needs of nearly 1,500 vehicles. The power generation facility will be 100% renewable, supplying Toyota Logistics Services’ (TLS) operations at the Port and making them the first Toyota facility in North America to use 100% renewable power...more: http://corporatenews.pressroom.toyot...on+station.htm

[brushfire]

"Zero emissions"? How do they make the hydrogen, and where do they get the energy to do that?

[Peace Piper]

"Zero emissions"? How do they make the hydrogen, and where do they get the energy to do that?

ITM Power Wind Hydrogen station in Rotherham, UK



A Solar Powered Hydrogen Weed Whacker



How to store renewable energy: Power 2 Gas



Scientific American: Inside the Solar Hydrogen House:
No More Power Bills- Ever (2008)

A New Jersey resident generates and stores all the power he needs with solar panels and hydrogen

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...ydrogen-house/

Hydrogen House Project http://hydrogenhouseproject.org/

[specsaregood]

"Zero emissions"? How do they make the hydrogen, and where do they get the energy to do that?

It does answer that question in the OP itself:

Nikola plans to process its own hydrogen fuel at each station with on-site solar power, wind power or by buying electricity created through renewable sources such as hydropower

[oyarde]

I am holding out for his n hers hydrogen Fighter and Bomber with 100 percent financing .

[brushfire]

It does answer that question in the OP itself:

Nikola plans to process its own hydrogen fuel at each station with on-site solar power, wind power or by buying electricity created through renewable sources such as hydropower

Thanks - then the questions remain, for me anyway:

1. Is there enough "renewable sources" to sustain the electrolysis (generation of hydrogen)?
2. What will this process, derived from renewable sources, cost?

According to the US EIA - The following breakdown of energy produced in the USA for 2017:

32% Natural Gas
30% Coal
20% Nuclear
7% Hydro
6% Wind
2% Bio
1% Solar
1% Petroleum
<1% Geothermal


I live near a windfarm and its far from economical - sure the wind is free, but collecting it is quite expensive (several million per turbine, and lots of open space). And while its renewable, is not anywhere near a "sustainable" level for vehicle demand - there's simply not enough power generated. Hydropower? I think that is a realized quantity - are we going to start building more dams? Or are they talking about those tidal generators that live off shore - do those even exist yet?

What about the losses - how many watts of hydrogen derived electricity can be generated by 1 watt of sustainable power? I'm certain it must be a small fraction. Also, what water source would be used? This does matter - how efficient is electrolysis in fresh water vs salt water. One of the videos sacrifices aluminum to generate hydrogen - a method, but is it practical/efficient (let alone renewable)?

Because of this, I have the humble opinion that hydrogen more of a sexy tech craze (like an iphone) than a practical solution to energy/pollution problems. In fact, I think its disingenuous to pretend that renewable sources (carbon zero) can produce enough energy, while still being economically feasible for the majority of the population. My bet is that AB will be using NG or Coal derived power to generate their hydrogen - not unicorn or rainbow power as the article portrays.

I mean, why not just make magnetic roadways so vehicles can levitate? Without the friction of contact, imagine the efficiency... Also, imagine how cost prohibitive that would be too...

Dont get me wrong, I'm all for innovation, and hope they come out with the technology. Still, I'd be more impressed with bio-fuel (algal type) in a conventional diesel engine. An algal based fuel can be economical, and very attainable - ready to use today, with relatively no additional investment required of the consumer.

Not to mention - in the midwest, where there is so much retained water fed by fertilized runoff - a byproduct of agriculture and parking lots. In the midwest, an algal derived fuel solves both a nitrogen and a carbon "problem" - probably not as sexy as a new hydrogen powered i-phone, but very practical and useful just the same.

[Zippyjuan]

Looking for the info but how much hydrogen (how many vehicles worth) can a solar powered hydrogen fuel station produce? (questioning whether solar can produce enough hydrogen to power automobiles if they were all to be converted). Most hydrogen is currently produced from natural gas. They also need to be in places where you get lots of sun.

Fuel stations can cost $2 million each to build. https://phys.org/news/2017-04-hydrog...pslowlyon.html

But getting those fill-ups presents the biggest obstacle. Fueling stations cost up to $2 million to build, so companies have been reluctant to build them unless more fuel cell cars are on the road. But automakers don't want to build cars that consumers can't fuel.

The U.S. Department of Energy lists just 34 public hydrogen fueling stations in the country; all but three are in California.

It costs between $13 and $16 per kilogram for hydrogen, or up to $80 to fill the Clarity's 5-kilogram capacity, according to the U.S. Energy Department.

This commercial station in the UK claims it can fuel 90 cars a day. https://www.greenoptimistic.com/firs.../#.WvSatYgvyUk

Honda has already been behind some pretty advanced application of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, such as the Honda FCX Clarity, and hydrogen fuel generation and stations, as well as encouraging Japan to adopt hydrogen fuel standards. The new hydrogen fuel generator was built at Honda UK’s Swindon plant, with pipes leading some 300 m to a filling station outside. The new hydrogen fuel station is expected to produce some twenty tonnes of hydrogen annually, powered entirely by the sun, using solar hydrolysis. There is no grid connection. The first “customers” at this new hydrogen fueling station will be a couple of hydrogen fuel cell fork lifts, a fleet of commercial vehicles, and a hydrogen fuel educational center.

Converting this single station’s output to something tangible, twenty tonnes of hydrogen fuel, powering the Hyundai ix35, whose fuel economy is rated at ≈49 mi/kg H2, is enough clean solar hydrogen for 980,000 miles per year. Similarly, the Honda FCX Clarity, which gets 60 mi/kg H2, this works out to about 1,200,000 miles per year. Put another way, the new plant in Swindon, whose emissions-free hydrogen fuel is generated exclusively by the sun, can fuel a fleet of about 90 cars, averaging 11,500 miles per year at an average 24.9 mpg, eliminating some 390 tonnes of CO2 from the atmosphere.

London has about 2.5 million cars so it would require 28,000 such stations if all cars there were replaced by hydrogen vehicles and refueled at such stations. There are currently about 900 gas (petrol) stations in London and just over 10,000 in the entire country so London would need more than 30 times as many fuel stations as they currently have. http://answers.google.com/answers/th...id/546407.html

Solar powered hydrogen sounds great but currently, it cannot produce enough to replace gasoline or electricity except in small numbers.

[Mach]

Had no idea how much a "gallon" of fuel would cost..... this is from 2016.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles...ectric-vehicle

The current price at the pump for hydrogen gas is between $13-$16/kilogram (kg) – 1 kg of hydrogen contains roughly the same energy density as 1 gallon of gasoline. But, because a fuel cell is more than twice as efficient as an internal combustion engine, you basically need half the amount of hydrogen to go twice as far! FCEVs use a fuel cell stack to convert hydrogen gas and oxygen into electricity to power the vehicle. Our Fuel Cell Technologies Office is funding research and development efforts to help drive down the total cost of hydrogen fuel (production and delivery included) to less than $4/kg by 2020.

The market changes Hydrogen will bring in the future are huge, all the way from the oil industry, to auto parts, manufacturing, jobs etc.. etc...

[Peace Piper]

Looking for the info but how much hydrogen (how many vehicles worth) can a solar powered hydrogen fuel station produce? (questioning whether solar can produce enough hydrogen to power automobiles if they were all to be converted). Most hydrogen is currently produced from natural gas. They also need to be in places where you get lots of sun.

Wind and hydro work too for Green h2. Technical specs from Nel Hydrogen (provider of Nikola Stations)
http://nelhydrogen.com/about/#documents-and-brochures

Fuel stations can cost $2 million each to build.

The US Army can build a Compressed Natural Gas station in Afghanistan for $500,000
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...?noredirect=on

CNG stations aren't a whole lot different than H2 stations. The elephant in the room here is China and they will decrease the cost of all equipment (fuel cells, dispensers, etc) by a huge amount, probably 90%, just as they did with solar panels.

Watch this video- it is one of the most important hydrogen videos ever produced. Realize that instead of China, it could have been the US. But the US has spent (or borrowed) every single dollar on war and surveillance. So China will lead the Green Hydrogen Revolution.

[Peace Piper]

Had no idea how much a "gallon" of fuel would cost..... this is from 2016.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles...ectric-vehicle

One gallon of gasoline = about one Kilogram of hydrogen. But because a fuel cell is around twice as efficient, one Kg of H2 will move a Toyota Mirai around 70 miles.

It takes about 50 kWh of electricity to make 1 Kilogram of H2 (add a few kWh for compression)

The latest low price solar records: Chile at 2.91¢ Per kWh and Abu Dhabi at 2.30¢ per kWh

At 0.03 Cents per kWh, a Kilogram of H2 costs ~$1.50 (plus a few cents for compression)

A full tank on the Mirai would cost ~$8.00, and would move 4 adults and a 4,000 pound car around 300 miles.

300 miles for ~$8.00.

Hydrogen professionals in Europe are talking about 1 -2 Euros per Kg before 2030.

We are talking pre 1970's Arab Oil shock prices for mobility and not only that, it would be DOMESTICALLY PRODUCED GAS- not a single oil tanker or refinery needed. All the dollars stay in the country. It is a REVOLUTION.

The market changes Hydrogen will bring in the future is huge, all the way from the oil industry, to auto parts, manufacturing, jobs etc.. etc...

It's the biggest thing to happen to energy in our lifetimes.

Check out this Hydrogen maker/dispenser made in Ohio


http://residentialhydrogenpower.com/...ing-appliance/

Here's a detailed look at the unit from Stan Osserman who has one hooked up at his workplace in Hawaii

[Mach]

It's been awhile, but you must have been the one that was bringing this up around here long ago, I have to say, I blew it off because, I admit, the cars etc. they were coming out with back then didn't appeal to me, but now they're coming out with all kinds of badass stuff..... makes me want to invest, too.... if I had the money.

I'm sold.

[Peace Piper]

It's been awhile, but you must have been the one that was bringing this up around here long ago, I have to say, I blew it off because, I admit, the cars etc. they were coming out with back then didn't appeal to me, but now they're coming out with all kinds of badass stuff..... makes me want to invest, too.... if I had the money.

I'm sold.

Thanks very much. The harder the battle....

There are going to be many opportunities to cash in on this revolution.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mach again.