George W Bush Speech 10/19: Last Gasps of NeoConservativism

[LibertyEagle]

Here's a simple test... Are any of them talking about "not" intervening with force or sanctions?! Or are they just arguing about which force and which sanctions to use in which places??? They all want to govern the world - they just have different ways of using the power. But NONE of them ever thinks about giving the power up.

Trump did. But, he damn sure isn't doing it.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

That pic is disturbing on more than one level.

[CaptUSA]

Trump did. But, he damn sure isn't doing it.

BS. Trump NEVER even talked about it. Sure, he may have indicated (for political purposes) that we should intervene less in SOME places, but at the same time he was talking about intervention and tougher sanctions in other places! Hell, sometimes he'd say the same things in reverse in the same week! There were never any guiding principles he followed other than agreeing with whatever audience was in front of him.

But I suppose this is more of that selective-Trump-hearing to which you guys cling. Only hearing what you want to believe he is saying.

For the rest of us, he's pretty much behaving exactly as expected. You definitely want to be the last person to talk to Trump before he does something!

[Todd]

um...bombings in brown peoples lands are up over Obama. So if he's not a Neocon....he sure does a good imitation.

[dannno]

People are not groups. They are individuals.

Ron Paul thinks in groups sometimes, I think you are mis-using the word "collectivism"

[CaptUSA]

um...bombings in brown peoples lands are up over Obama. So if he's not a Neocon....he sure does a good imitation.

Thank you.

[CaptUSA]

Ron Paul thinks in groups sometimes, I think you are mis-using the word "collectivism"

Nice try, dannno. You should really watch that video. I think you missed the point.

[LibertyEagle]

BS. Trump NEVER even talked about it. Sure, he may have indicated (for political purposes) that we should intervene less in SOME places, but at the same time he was talking about intervention and tougher sanctions in other places! Hell, sometimes he'd say the same things in reverse in the same week! There were never any guiding principles he followed other than agreeing with whatever audience was in front of him.

But I suppose this is more of that selective-Trump-hearing to which you guys cling. Only hearing what you want to believe he is saying.

For the rest of us, he's pretty much behaving exactly as expected. You definitely want to be the last person to talk to Trump before he does something!

Thomas Massie sure didn't agree with you.

[LibertyEagle]

um...bombings in brown peoples lands are up over Obama. So if he's not a Neocon....he sure does a good imitation.

Brown people? Turn off MSNBC, Todd. Seriously.

[CaptUSA]

Thomas Massie sure didn't agree with you.

It's easy to agree with 1/2 of what Trump says. "A lot of the speech actually spoke to me, there", too!

Thomas is smart to focus on the 1/2 where he aligns. It's just that the other 1/2 of the things he says (and does, btw) are completely opposite. Thomas is being magnanimous by not calling BS, but I don't have to be.

[dannno]

Nice try, dannno. You should really watch that video. I think you missed the point.

I've seen it multiple times, have you??

The point is there is a group of guys who conspire together and have a unifying philosophy, when I claimed there was a group of people conspiring together you called me a collectivist.

[Raginfridus]

Collectives do exist.

Definition of collectivism

1 :a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also :a system marked by such control

2 :emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity

If a group of individuals identify themselves as parts of a collective, then nobody's a "collectivist" for factually stating such a group are a collective, nor intellectually compromised for treating a collective like a collective.

[LibertyEagle]

It's easy to agree with 1/2 of what Trump says. "A lot of the speech actually spoke to me, there", too!

Thomas is smart to focus on the 1/2 where he aligns. It's just that the other 1/2 of the things he says (and does, btw) are completely opposite. Thomas is being magnanimous by not calling BS, but I don't have to be.

What Trump SAID he was going to do with regard to foreign policy was a significant improvement. However, he has not walked his talk.

[CaptUSA]

What Trump SAID he was going to do with regard to foreign policy was a significant improvement. However, he has not walked his talk.

Ok, you're getting better... But if you really listened to what he "SAID" and not just what you wanted to hear, you would have noticed that everything he SAID was contradicted by other things he said. He called for less intervention, but then also said he was going to go after ISIS no matter where they were. He said he wanted us out of the ME, but also said he wanted to get involved MORE.

But some of you got all excited when he said things you liked and dismissed the things you didn't like. So now, when you think he isn't "walking his talk", it's because you only listened to what you wanted to hear.

[CaptUSA]

Collectives do exist.

Definition of collectivism

1 :a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also :a system marked by such control

2 :emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity

If a group of individuals identify themselves as parts of a collective, then nobody's a "collectivist" for factually stating such a group are a collective, nor intellectually compromised for treating a collective like a collective.

What you and Dannno are missing is the second piece of that definition. Just because you use the collective term "neocon" does NOT mean that they are in lockstep with each other. You are ascribing your understanding of the group to each of the individuals in that group. John McCain is a neocon. Obama is a neocon. GWB is a neocon. And yet, they all argue amongst themselves incessantly. How can that be if they are all neocons?!! Like I stated before, what unites these men is not any particular use or implementation of that power, it's that they want to control the world. It's a chess game to them. They're all playing on different teams, but they're all playing the game. Trump is doing the same damned thing - just another neocon.

But what's been happening with dannno, is that he sees some neocons attacking Trump and assumes that he must not be one. He is, of course, just playing the chess game in the way he wants to play it. So when you put the emphasis on the individuals within that group, you'll see that their aims are almost identical: Gain as much power as possible and use it as "I" see fit. It's only when you focus on the group over the individuals that you make the mistake of believing they all want to make the exact same moves.

[Swordsmyth]

What you and Dannno are missing is the second piece of that definition. Just because you use the collective term "neocon" does NOT mean that they are in lockstep with each other. You are ascribing your understanding of the group to each of the individuals in that group. John McCain is a neocon. Obama is a neocon. GWB is a neocon. And yet, they all argue amongst themselves incessantly. How can that be if they are all neocons?!! Like I stated before, what unites these men is not any particular use or implementation of that power, it's that they want to control the world. It's a chess game to them. They're all playing on different teams, but they're all playing the game. Trump is doing the same damned thing - just another neocon.

But what's been happening with dannno, is that he sees some neocons attacking Trump and assumes that he must not be one. He is, of course, just playing the chess game in the way he wants to play it. So when you put the emphasis on the individuals within that group, you'll see that their aims are almost identical: Gain as much power as possible and use it as "I" see fit. It's only when you focus on the group over the individuals that you make the mistake of believing they all want to make the exact same moves.

And your error is that you assume that they NEVER do what the group wants as opposed to their own ideas, and that therefore the group is meaningless.

Some groups command more cooperation from their members than others, and some members cooperate more than others.

[CaptUSA]

And your error is that you assume that they NEVER do what the group wants as opposed to their own ideas, and that therefore the group is meaningless.

Some groups command more cooperation from their members than others, and some members cooperate more than others.

Again, what group are you talking about?! The left neocons? The right neocons? The Trumpian neocons?? Even within those factions of neoconnery, you will have much disagreement on tactics. But, if you look at it more broadly, they all have the same goals. Grow and exert power.

[H. E. Panqui]

Last gasps?! Are you serious?

Neoconservatism is alive, well, and thriving! North Korea?? Iran?? Syria?? Yemen???

I mean, is there a place where we are NOT intervening either by force or sanction?! Is there a place where we have fewer sanctions or less force?

I really think you guys need to get your heads back in the game.

Remember, global trade is a good thing - it's global governance that is the problem. Trade globally, govern locally.

...bingo!...sadly, i sense waaaaaaaaay too much republican-squawk-talk radio for many poor pathetic republican-radio-level 'thinkers'...ugh...

...ouch!!, captusa has made swift mince-meat of the republican-radio-level 'thinking' here...love it!..

[Swordsmyth]

Again, what group are you talking about?! The left neocons? The right neocons? The Trumpian neocons?? Even within those factions of neoconnery, you will have much disagreement on tactics. But, if you look at it more broadly, they all have the same goals. Grow and exert power.

Until we can get enough good people in power to enact our agenda of reduced government the differences between those groups can have dramatic effects on our lives.

[Raginfridus]

What you and Dannno are missing is the second piece of that definition. Just because you use the collective term "neocon" does NOT mean that they are in lockstep with each other. You are ascribing your understanding of the group to each of the individuals in that group.

Yeah, control doesn't need to mean Neocons are steered by a central hive mind (though I wonder) timing their activities... That's not something people normally need to clarify when talking about this or that collective, unless the topic is sci-fi or comic books. :P

[donnay]

Again, what group are you talking about?! The left neocons? The right neocons? The Trumpian neocons?? Even within those factions of neoconnery, you will have much disagreement on tactics. But, if you look at it more broadly, they all have the same goals. Grow and exert power.

The globalists = Establishment. The small group of people who have been running the show.

This needs to be put here:

[dude58677]

Again, what group are you talking about?! The left neocons? The right neocons? The Trumpian neocons?? Even within those factions of neoconnery, you will have much disagreement on tactics. But, if you look at it more broadly, they all have the same goals. Grow and exert power.

If you are a neocon and you support him. You are only seeing the things you want him to say while ignoring the things you don't want him to see. Not all conservatives act the same. Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Mike Lee, Pat Buchanan, Jim Demint all have disagreements but they all want the same thing. The rest of us can see that the entire establishment hates and despises Donald Trump.

[nikcers]

If you are a neocon and you support him. You are only seeing the things you want him to say while ignoring the things you don't want him to see. Not all conservatives act the same. Rand Paul, Ron Paul, Mike Lee, Pat Buchanan, Jim Demint all have disagreements but they all want the same thing. The rest of us can see that the entire establishment hates and despises Donald Trump.

Who else but Trump would work with our Senators to get the things that our country needs done by executive order.

In June, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., labeled the pilot shortage a crisis that would prevent the Air Force from fulfilling its mission.

“This is a full-blown crisis, and if left unresolved, it will call into question the Air Force’s ability to accomplish its mission,” said McCain, chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

President Trump signed an executive order Friday allowing the Air Force to recall as many as 1,000 retired pilots to active duty to address a shortage in combat fliers, the White House and Pentagon announced.

"We anticipate that the Secretary of Defense will delegate the authority to the Secretary of the Air Force to recall up to 1,000 retired pilots for up to three years," Navy Cdr. Gary Ross, a Pentagon spokesman, said in a statement.
But the executive order itself is not specific to the Air Force, and could conceivably be used in the future to call up more officers and in other branches.

[dude58677]

Who else but Trump would work with our Senators to get the things that our country needs done by executive order.

https://goo.gl/images/V5Yb4j

https://goo.gl/images/5JA9YF

This guy is a real politician? What does Mike Tyson have to do with Bush-Clinton?

[nikcers]

This guy is a real politician? What does Mike Tyson have to do with Bush-Clinton?

[dude58677]

That's the best you can do?

[Raginfridus]

The globalists = Establishment. The small group of people who have been running the show.

This needs to be put here:

Worst song ever, and three stations play it all day in this stupid town. You'll hear it at least twice if you're up 12 hrs. Bad song. Very bad.

[AZJoe]

Torturer-in-Chief Turned Savior of Freedom?

Former President George W. Bush gave a speech yesterday ... He assured listeners that freedom “should be the defining commitment of our country, and the hope of the world.” ... “We become the heirs of James Madison by understanding the genius and values of the US Constitution.”

After the speech, much of the media exalted Bush as if he were the second coming of George Washington. ...

Bush was one of the most disastrous, authoritarian presidents in modern American history. Bush committed more abuses of power than could be recounted in anything less than a book. But there was one issue which should forever define Bush in Americans’ memory. ...

Bush proceeded to authorize the type of torture regime that civilized nations had formally abandoned hundreds of years earlier.

The CIA constructed an interrogation regime by “consulting Egyptian and Saudi intelligence officials and copying Soviet interrogation methods,” ... Thanks to Bush’s orders, US government abuses ranged from endless high-volume repetition of a “Meow Mix” cat food commercial at Guantanamo, to tearing out toenails in Afghanistan, to compulsory enemas for recalcitrant prisoners, to beating people to death in Iraq and kicking them to death outside Kabul, and to illegally sending detainees to foreign governments to be tortured by proxy and creating a system of “ghost prisoners” worthy of a banana republic. A secret legal opinion authorized CIA interrogators to engage in head slapping, waterboarding, frigid temperatures, and manacling for many hours in stress positions. CIA interrogators often did not speak the language of detainees so they compensated by beating hell out of them. Psychologists aided the torture regime, offering helpful hints on how to destroy the will and resistance of prisoners.

Monty Python was the Bush administration’s patron saint for judicial proceedings. ... Military commissions could accept “evidence” produced by interrogations that violated “cruel, unusual or inhumane treatment” standards as long as such abuses occurred before Dec. 30, 2005, when Congress passed the Detainee Treatment Act. (Bush effectively vetoed this law with a signing statement.) The Military Commissions Act, which Bush railroaded through Congress in 2006, created farcical proceedings that resembled a 1938 Moscow show trial. Defense attorneys could “challenge the use of hearsay information obtained through coercive interrogations [torture] in distant countries only if they can prove it is unreliable,” ... But it was almost impossible to disprove an accusation when a defense lawyer was not allowed to question or perhaps even know who made the charge. ...

Bush’s legal lackeys also proclaimed that the president’s dictates were the highest law thanks to the “commander-in-chief override” of the Constitution. In December 2008, the Senate Armed Services Committee released a report (largely ignored by the media) proving that the torture abuses originated at the highest levels of the Bush administration. The report stated that “senior officials in the United States government... redefined the law to create the appearance of legality.”

In 2010, Bush’s memoir, Decision Points, hit the streets and Americans could read firsthand the former president bragging about ordering torture. Bush wrote that when he was requested to approve the CIA’s waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he responded, “Damn right.” ... torture helped send 4000+ Americans to their death in Iraq, since the Bush administration relied on false confessions gained via torture to justify toppling Saddam Hussein. The United States had classified waterboarding as torture since the Spanish American War, and the US government had classified waterboarding as a war crime since 1947. ...

The only CIA official prosecuted in the torture scandal was John Kiriakou, a heroic whistleblower. The fact that federal courts dismissed a barrage of torture lawsuits against top Bush administration officials and torture policymakers is one of the great disgraces of the American judiciary. ...

Bush did more than anyone in this century to destroy Americans’ and the world’s confidence in the US government. But freedom will be doomed if we permit its enemies to masquerade as its protectors.

[Created4]

Ok, so the neocons are fighting Trump for the ring of power.. What faction is Trump in?

Probably the global bankers who control both. The age of big profits from oil is probably over, which is why Bush is whining. They need wars now to make money.

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...oreign-regimes

Donald Trump: 'We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes'

Donald Trump has laid out a US military policy that would avoid interventions in foreign conflicts and instead focus heavily on defeating Islamic State militancy.

“We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about, that we shouldn’t be involved with,” the president-elect said on Tuesday night in Fayetteville, near Fort Bragg military base in North Carolina.

“Instead our focus must be on defeating terrorism and destroying Isis, and we will.”

“We don’t want to have a depleted military because we’re all over the place fighting in areas that we shouldn’t be fighting in. It’s not going to be depleted any longer,” he said.

Trump has long expressed his skepticism about US foreign intervention in activities that he has labeled “nation building.”

He told the Guardian in October 2015: “We’re nation-building. We can’t do it. We have to build our own nation. We’re nation-building, trying to tell people who have [had] dictators or worse for centuries how to run their own countries.

Ya mean countries like Iran and North Korea and Cuba?