Who are the elites and purists you speak of?Originally Posted by familydog
Are you going to answer my question? Here it is again.
Why would I answer an obvious (and pointed) question? We both know the answer.
Perhaps if the people had a little bit more involvement in the political process, we wouldn't get crappy candidates year in and year out.
We do? Just making sure. If that's the case I'm a bit lost as to your complaint.
But you're right in a way. Perhaps if people were more involved in the political process we wouldn't have such horrible candidates. And that's exactly what the convention and delegate process is for - to get involved. I do wish more people were involved.
Sorry if I don't consider showing up to vote for all but 10 minutes every 4 years qualifies as being involved. If that is the level of involvement you are looking for then I suggest you go revisit the concept of direct democracy again.
You can't expect to get the average person involved (and more importantly stay involved) in such a convoluted political process.
What you're suggesting is that the political process become a full-time and year-round job for the average person. That is not realistic.
Yes, the US election process is 100% perfect... a beacon of perfection. Who's imagination is the product of dreaming here?
Firstly, any jackass who declares that millions of registered voters' engagement in the political process is nothing more than participation in a "beauty contest" ought to be tarred and feathered.
Trump delegates were erased from the register altogether. Trump delegates were eliminated from the ballot. All of them. If there is irrefutable evidence of even a single one of these illegal infractions (and there is more than one), the caucuses are invalid eliminating Colorado from the process altogether and someone should be brought to justice… period.
As far as the same guy who says that "it's the job of this forum to denigrate tyrants", dictating what else "this website stands for", maybe stop looking in the mirror when you post.
False. Trump delegates were on the ballot, they just didn't get enough votes to get delegate seats (they did get 7 alternate seats). This was known well in advance by the campaign, who could have turned out enough people to the precinct caucuses to make a difference. Instead they left their grassroots to fend for themselves, and told them in a conference call they were not worth the trouble. After the convention the Trump people started blaming the state party to cover up their possibly critical mistake.
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
Nobody's saying that. But we should complain when they cheat, not when they play fair, like they did in Colorado.
... exactly. Again. Republic vs Democracy. (Mod edit)
Too many people are involved as it is. And you want to dumb it down for them even more?
Many of the people voting in elections should not be allowed to vote.
- if a person cannot choose a candidate without an authority figure pointing to to vote for
- if a person vote for someone they've never heard of because of their party affiliation
- if a person doesn't know how to find their precinct location
that person shouldn't be allowed to vote.
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
If a person votes for a candidate because "s/he's not <insert opposing candidate>", that person should *probably* not be allowed to vote.
* with some exceptions
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
To those that think the Colorado Delegation should be disallowed. What about my vote. I went to the precinct caucus in Adams County, CO. I showed up to the county caucus as a delegate and got promoted to congressional and state elections as delegates (We had vacancies, less people showed up to be delegates than we were allocated to by the state party).
I went to my CD7 convention and assembly. I seconded the nomination of my friend who was running for congress (he lost, in a landslide). Two national delegates I voted for at CD7 ran on the campaign to stop the dirty tricks of the RNC. They knew about what happened 4 years ago, and they were pissed about it. They were on the Cruz slate, but were unpledged (two of only four unpledged delegates to go to the national convention for Colorado). All the other votes I made lost. Though I expected that.
All I had to do was show up. If a republican in Adams County wanted to become a delegate, they could have, we had vacancies that could have been filled. In other counties people showed up who were alternate delegates to the convention. They didn't even have a vote, they just showed up in case one of the delegates didn't show up, so they could get promoted to voting delegate.
All of these thousands of people did the required work to be properly credentialed to the state convention. It wasn't much. Just show up to vote and pick up your delegate badge.
Why all of the uproar? It's how Colorado has always done it. Because of the RNC illegal rules changes 4 years ago, the GOP in Colorado decided to remove our Chairman (for the first time in history), and the decision for Colorado to not include a preference poll was done by liberty people to prevent the RNC from hijacking our caucus. It was fair.
I didn't even have a candidate that I wanted. At the state convention, I had a ballot that I could vote for 26 people, and I voted for about 5. I knew the people I was voting for wouldn't win. But why disqualify my vote?
I'm an anarcho-capitalist too. I just like going to these conventions because my Ron Paul buddies are there, most of the time we're talking about how dirty the politicians are that are walking around.
Why should my vote as a delegate not count?
Last edited by Ptpete25; 04-12-2016 at 10:00 PM.
"We are a Republic and not a democracy. The majority cannot take away your rights. Your rights are infinite."
Rand Paul
I don't get this pre occupation with limiting the vote. I mean I would have the vote proportional to tax paid if I had my way. But I am assuming all the anti Trump people would not go as far as me.
Caucus makes sense if it represents a popular vote otherwise you run the danger of being detached to public sentiment. Imagine living Cruz forward and everyone hates him. This is what you get when you make a cordless caucus like Colorado. And I think they will be stripped of delegates at the national convention. They did it to RP and I don't think Trump will back down.
Who says we can't have a Republic with a less convoluted and complicated political process?
Colorado changed their process last year in an attempt to stop Trump from winning the state. They didn't change their process to make it more "republican."
"Liberty is popular."
-Ron Paul
I guess he forgot to mention that only the chosen ones may participate in the protection of liberty.
I thought the point of the liberty movement was to educate? Are you suggesting if one does not have that information right away that they be dismissed?
Exactly - although never were seriously considering an expensive primary as far as I can tell . . .
And another reason cited was that the CO GOP didn't want people to just vote a presidential straw poll and leave the caucus as CO Dimocrats do . . .
it only takes a couple hours to vote on platform, and if trumpettes can't participate for whatever reason, that's fine.
Colorado was to be just like previous caucus . . . including Iowa caucus previous years,
electing delegates into the pipeline for the party nomination who were unbound from the git go
and voting on platform items -
Out-of-state trumpettes complaining and protesting whatever that they need to protest this week is laughably anti-persuasive -
as they don't process the fact that of the four in the race on March 1, Duhnald did finish in the basement #5 -
Colorado caucus winner hands-down "anybody but Trump"
.
Last edited by Jan2017; 04-13-2016 at 07:19 AM.
No, a booger-eating Canadian senator is just being used here - Priebus figured Cruz worked wonders on Rand and went with him to consolidate Trump's under 50 % everywhere. Rubio will back . . . with over 200 first ballot delegates after South Carolina unbinds in May.
...it's pretty obvious that the more mainstream, establishment [stinking] republican apologists are overwhelmingly in the [stinking] ted cruz camp vs. trump...
...ugh!...[stinking] ted cruz...
Last edited by Jan2017; 04-13-2016 at 06:22 AM.
Because some a$$hole in Canada who thinks he knows everything made a slick video explaining why you are a dishonorable person.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
How is a caucus "limiting the vote?" As Ptpete25 pointed out, any registered republican could have shown up to caucus. But caucusing takes a lot more time and commitment than just going to a polling place and waiting in line for at most a few hours to cast a vote in a few minutes and go home. Trump could have definitely won this had he actually shown up and participated. But....he didn't. Then again he lost Iowa. Maybe caucusing just isn't his thing.
9/11 Thermate experiments
Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I
"I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"
"We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul
"It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
"We are a Republic and not a democracy. The majority cannot take away your rights...
...of course not!....when it comes to stinking republicrat politics/politicians, the MINORITY 'takes away your rights'...
(...ah, republicans and democrats!...putting the 'ooooooooooooooooooooooooo' in stoooooooooooooooooooooopid for a long time!..
In general, such people are the type who refuse to be educated. They are attracted to authoritarians.
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
“I don’t think that there will be any curtailing of Donald Trump as president,” he said. "He controls the media, he controls the sentiment [and] he controls everybody. He’s the one who will resort to executive orders more so than [President] Obama ever used them." - Ron Paul
fcreature asserts: But you're right in a way. Perhaps if people were more involved in the political process we wouldn't have such horrible candidates. And that's exactly what the convention and delegate process is for - to get involved. I do wish more people were involved.
(...if i had wanted to 'get involved' it would have cost me some FOUR HOURS OF MY LIFE, ONE OF WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN STANDING OUTDOORS IN WINDY, 30 DEGREE WEATHER AMONG A BUNCH OF GD FOOL TED CRUZ IDIOTS..ALSO MORE THAN AN HOUR OF DRIVING, HECTIC PARKING, ETC., 2.3 GALLONS OF GASOLINE, ETC..ALL TO MERELY CAST A NON-BINDING 'STRAW POLL PREFERENCE "VOTE"...BELIEVE IT OR NOT, CRUZ CHEERLEADERS, IT'S NOT THAT EASY TO 'GET INVOLVED'...FOR MANY REASONS...
...get real, ted crud apologists!..your stinking republicreeps (and democreeps, if there are any here) DON'T WANT 'PEOPLE' TO 'GET INVOLVED'..it's easier to control/fix thing$ when people 'aren't looking'...
...(!good grief, some of these republicrats appear hideously naive...brain-laundered...especially the tedtards...
Last edited by H. E. Panqui; 04-13-2016 at 08:06 AM.
What you're talking about is the majority of voters. Either a) you think that the majority of people in this country should be banned from participating in the political process or b) you think that educating the majority of the population is a waste of time and their votes and opinions need to be discounted. So really, who is the authoritarian?
Brenda Starr, reporter, at it again, folks ^^^ Pulitzer prize on the horizon.
Below we see the "process" from one man's point of view after he shows up to the convention in the first video, is denied entrance because his name was wiped off the list. In his second video his absolute fury at having been removed from the rolls as he explains his precinct leader threatened to do so if he voted for Donald Trump, making him disenfranchised as a voter and a delegate .Yes, dear, YOU are saying that, repeatedly. There is fraud pouring out of every orifice in the union this cycle, as there has been since they invented the ballot box. Wake up or head on over to the Wonderland voting forums.
(mod edit)
it's just when i came back to this forum and made a post about Trump a fews days ago. They closed my thread. I was in shock. It is very easy to shut out dissent when you are in position of power.
Delegate system and electoral college is too easily corruptible. Trump is right, the system is rigged. That was my conclusion after 2012.
Colorado Republicans clearly rather hold a vote then show up at precincts. So they should get what they want and not what establishment wants.
No one is talking about Ted Cruz but you. What we're talking about is the failure of Trump's campaign.fcreature asserts: But you're right in a way. Perhaps if people were more involved in the political process we wouldn't have such horrible candidates. And that's exactly what the convention and delegate process is for - to get involved. I do wish more people were involved.
(...if i had wanted to 'get involved' it would have cost me some FOUR HOURS OF MY LIFE, ONE OF WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN STANDING OUTDOORS IN WINDY, 30 DEGREE WEATHER AMONG A BUNCH OF GD FOOL TED CRUZ IDIOTS..ALSO MORE THAN AN HOUR OF DRIVING, HECTIC PARKING, ETC., 2.3 GALLONS OF GASOLINE, ETC..ALL TO MERELY CAST A NON-BINDING 'STRAW POLL PREFERENCE "VOTE"...BELIEVE IT OR NOT, CRUZ CHEERLEADERS, IT'S NOT THAT EASY TO 'GET INVOLVED'...FOR MANY REASONS...
...get real, ted crud apologists!..your stinking republicreeps (and democreeps, if there are any here) DON'T WANT 'PEOPLE' TO 'GET INVOLVED'..it's easier to control/fix thing$ when people 'aren't looking'...
...(!good grief, some of these republicrats appear hideously naive...brain-laundered...especially the tedtards...
What I'm hearing from you amounts to nothing but excuses.
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