Christian immigration out of Israel and Jewish immigration into Israel increased, why?

[moderate libertarian]

In past decades, despite US giving Israeli regimes steady aid in billions every year, a startling demographic trend has emerged. Native Christian arab immigration out of Israel has increased while at the same time Jewish immigration into Israel from froeign countries increased. Can anyone explain why that happened? Considering that holy land is birth place of Christianity, one would think native Christian population would prefer ro live there.

Only explnataion I had heard before was that since Israel created Hamas and started supporting radicalism and Islamic extremist groups, life became harder for native Christians and they left to find better life outside Israel. But even if that simplistic reason is accepted, why that affected Christian arab and Jewish populations in opposite ways?

[GeorgiaAvenger]

It is prophesied that the Jews would return to Israel.

[moderate libertarian]

Ok, so you're saying God's hand is working mysteriously?

I was hoping there would be another non-scripture explanation for these two diverging trends. Besides, is it prophesied anywhere that native Christains of arab race would have to leave?

[eduardo89]

Because the Christian Arabs are treated as second class citizens (if they are lucky enough to get Israeli citizenship) or as terrorists (if they do not have citizenship and live in the occupied territories).

Israel is a racist, apartheid regime. If you're a Jew you're treated well and there is a lot of financial incentive for Jews from many countries to move there. If you're not Jewish you are discriminated against.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Ok, so you're saying God's hand is working mysteriously?

I was hoping there would be another non-scripture explanation for these two diverging trends. Besides, is it prophesied anywhere that native Christains of arab race would have to leave?

Yeah, I am saying God's hand is working.

I don't agree with much that Israel's government does, but I understand that they are in a tough spot and I support them.

[moderate libertarian]

Ok that is believable explanation eduardo, thank you.

Btw, is that notorious hanity in your avatar?

[moderate libertarian]

Yeah, I am saying God's hand is working.

I don't agree with much that Israel's government does, but I understand that they are in a tough spot and I support them.

Ok, that's under thing I finf perplexing. Why would Israel founders think that moving Jewish natives from Charistian nations like France, Austria into muslim arab neighborhood would safer? Even if both arab and jews are semites, there has been historic ensions between them too.

This was so called founding father of Israel:

Theodor Herzl
Herzl first encountered the anti-Semitism that would shape his life and the fate of
the ... Herzl witnessed mobs shouting “Death to the Jews” in France, the home of
the ... He envisioned a new society that was to rise in the Land of Israel on a ...

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...phy/Herzl.html

[eduardo89]

Ok that is believable explanation eduardo, thank you.

Btw, is that notorious hanity in your avatar?

Yes, it's conservative hero Sean Hannity. I'm just preparing for this place to become RandPaulForums and I know Sean is a huge Rand fan.

Israel offers lots of incentives for Jews to immigrate there. They're very afraid that Palestinians will out populate Jews in the coming decades. The Palestinian birth rate is much higher than the Jewish birth rate, except for ultra-orthodox Jews who have a birth rate as high (or higher) than the Arabs.

If you search, you'll see that Israel offers incentives in the tens of thousands trying to get Iranian Jews to immigrate there. Also the fact that you can get Israeli citizenship automatically by proving Jewish blood makes it easy for Jews to immigrate. Not to mention that they opened up and accepted hundreds of thousands of Soviet Jews in the late 80s and 90s.

Life is quite good for you if you're Jewish in Israel. If you're an Arab, Muslim or Christian, life is hard.

[eduardo89]

Ok, that's under thing I finf perplexing. Why would Israel founders think that moving Jewish natives from Charistian nations like France, Austria into muslim arab neighborhood would safer? Even if both arab and jews are semites, there has been historic ensions between them too.

This was so called founding father of Israel:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...phy/Herzl.html

Because they can claim its their land and fool naive Christians into believing that.

[TheLibertarianNationalist]

Ok, that's under thing I finf perplexing. Why would Israel founders think that moving Jewish natives from Charistian nations like France, Austria into muslim arab neighborhood would safer? Even if both arab and jews are semites, there has been historic ensions between them too.

Saying they are both "Semites" doesn't really mean much. Indians, Frenchmen, and Englishmen are all Indo-Europeans but that doesn't mean they would all get along under one government. Both of those terms are just linguistic terms, nothing else. But it is true Hebrews are closely related to other Levantines such as Lebanese, Palestinians, and Assyrians more than anything. And Ashkenazis are about 40% European.

But anyways, I'm not sure why they thought it would be safer or better for them but I'm glad they left. All they do is complain about Christian civilization anyways so they mine as well enjoy being an Arab-Muslim majority nation in the next 50 years. If you don't know what I'm referring to, Orthodox Jews (the crazy, radical ones who shout at secular Jews, Christians, and Muslims in the street and throw rocks at Messianic Jews) and Arabs are pretty much the only people breeding in Israel. And if history tells us anything, apartheid never works in the long run. So expect their persecution of Palestinians to eventually fail. Israel's future looks dim.

And I would argue it isn't any fulfillment of a biblical prophecy. There was an actual Jewish state in Israel around 100 A.D. So if the Bible predicts Jews retake the Holy Land, then I guess it occurred twice?

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Ok, that's under thing I finf perplexing. Why would Israel founders think that moving Jewish natives from Charistian nations like France, Austria into muslim arab neighborhood would safer? Even if both arab and jews are semites, there has been historic ensions between them too.

This was so called founding father of Israel:


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...phy/Herzl.html

The goal is not to be "safer", the goal is to reclaim God given land.

[ClydeCoulter]

Wow, really? God said so? Ishmael (Abrahams oldest son) was with Abraham when God promised the land, according to the book many read. But what about the part where it says the Israelites can be created from a stone and is in the heart, and about those that claim to be Israelites but are liars, and all that?

[eduardo89]

The goal is not to be "safer", the goal is to reclaim God given land.

You should read this: http://www.stephensizer.com/2011/08/...t-assumptions/

You've been duped into believing Zionist lies.

[ExPatPaki]

God also prophesied in the Bible that Jews would reclaim the land and have Christians as sex slaves:

Israel's sex trade booming

God is Great!

[furface]

Yeah, I am saying God's hand is working. ... I support them.

This should disqualify you as a rational conversant in the eyes of anybody who wants to have a rational conversation about this subject. I'm guessing that if you take out all the Zionist profiteers, all the anti-Arab bigots, and all the religious fanatics, there will be no one left anywhere in the world who supports Israel.

[moderate libertarian]

Yeah, I am saying God's hand is working.

I don't agree with much that Israel's government does, but I understand that they are in a tough spot and I support them.

Palestinians are in a tougher spot.
Do you agree with/support so called "zionism" and open-ended Israeli occupation of Palestinians?

[airborne373]

The nation state of Israel is openly hostile to Christians. Don't deny it. Study Israeli laws they favor a single race and religion over all others. Israeli TV is VERY, VERY hateful towards Christians and Jesus. I will not post any of them here but you can find them all over the internet. Really foul anti-Christian propaganda.

[specsaregood]

Also the fact that you can get Israeli citizenship automatically by proving Jewish blood makes it easy for Jews to immigrate.

What is jewish blood? How do you go about proving it? Is there a simple take-home self-test? do you have to show your amputated penis?

[eduardo89]

What is jewish blood? How do you go about proving it? Is there a simple take-home self-test? do you have to show your amputated penis?

You need a Jewish mother to be considered Jewish under Jewish law. To prove this you basically just need a letter from a rabbi.

According to the halakhic definition, a person is Jewish if his or her mother is Jewish, or if he or she converts to Judaism.

[specsaregood]

You need a Jewish mother to be considered Jewish under Jewish law. To prove this you basically just need a letter from a rabbi.

so its not really a blood thing.

[eduardo89]

so its not really a blood thing.

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not a lot of the time.

[specsaregood]

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious or not a lot of the time.

right back at you.

but they don't test the blood. all you need is a letter from a rabbi it sounds like. eg: a kid who was adopted at birth by a jewish mother it sounds like would be accepted.

[eduardo89]

right back at you.

but they don't test the blood. all you need is a letter from a rabbi it sounds like. eg: a kid who was adopted at birth by a jewish mother it sounds like would be accepted.

If the child is adopted then they technically arent Jewish and would have to convert at age 13. Same with children of Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers.

[specsaregood]

If the child is adopted then they technically arent Jewish and would have to convert at age 13. Same with children of Jewish fathers and non-Jewish mothers.

Right but if a jewish mom covertly adopted a baby and didn't tell the rabbi. Or you started going to a synogague and told them you were always jewish. it sounds like you could get passed right in, ie: no actual "jewish blood" test.

just wondering, as I remember reading about israel working on gene-based biological weapons an figured, they must have identifed some jewish gene somewhere down the line.

[eduardo89]

Right but if a jewish mom covertly adopted a baby and didn't tell the rabbi. Or you started going to a synogague and told them you were always jewish. it sounds like you could get passed right in, ie: no actual "jewish blood" test.

just wondering, as I remember reading about israel working on gene-based biological weapons an figured, they must have identifed some jewish gene somewhere down the line.

They'd ask for a birth certificate or some proof from your mother's synagogue. Of course there's always way around this, especially because most of those records were lost in the second world war as in the soviet union.

[jmdrake]

It is prophesied that the Jews would return to Israel.

That prophecy was already fulfilled before Jesus came when Nehemiah rebuilt the wall of Jerusalem. Jesus last prophecy to the Jews before his death was that their house was left to them desolate. Paul taught that Christians are the "seed of Abraham" and "heirs according to the promise". Jesus final prophecy in the Bible is recorded in the book of Revelation. There He said twice to beware of those who "were not Jews but say they are Jews but are of the synagogue of Satan". Answer me this. Why would an atheist "Jew" who might not even be a biological descendant of Abraham have more of a claim to Israel than an Arab Christian?

[jmdrake]

You need a Jewish mother to be considered Jewish under Jewish law. To prove this you basically just need a letter from a rabbi.

Here's the problem. You can become Jewish through conversion. So a woman who becomes Jewish by conversion has a child who becomes and atheist. And that child is Jewish because.....?

[wannaberocker]

You should read this: http://www.stephensizer.com/2011/08/...t-assumptions/

You've been duped into believing Zionist lies.

I never baught into this line of thinking. Someone could just as easily tell you that you have been duped by arab lies.

[jmdrake]

I never baught into this line of thinking. Someone could just as easily tell you that you have been duped by arab lies.

So Jesus was Arab? Did you even bother reading what eduardo linked to? It wasn't some treatise about how Palestine is "Arab land" or how the "Zionists have persecuted the Palestinians." Rather it was a very solid biblical refutation of the false teaching that Jews are still God's chosen people. You will find belief nowhere in the New Testament. Christians almost universally understood this until the 2nd half of the 20th century. Jews aren't to be treated any better or worse than anyone else.

[eduardo89]

I never baught into this line of thinking. Someone could just as easily tell you that you have been duped by arab lies.

Except the Scriptures are very clear. And Zionism is a 19th century invention which, sadly, many American Christians have been fooled into believing is prophesy.

God's mission for Israel to the world is summed up in the person and ministry of Jesus Christ who "fulfilled" God's purposes for Israel by creating out of two peoples - Jews and Gentiles - one people whose Promised Land is no longer a piece of real estate in the Middle East, but a New Heaven and New Earth which will come into existence when He comes again at the end of time.