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Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Ron Paul's position from 2007:
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
- Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
- Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
- No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
- No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
- End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
- Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26
"I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007
We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country
Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.
No amnesty.
End birthright citizenship
current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:
And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality
*No biometrics
*No walling our country in
*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
*End welfare entirely
*No abuse of prisoners in US custody
It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded use of biometrics
*Increased government spying
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
*Attempting to wall our country in
*No significant attempts to end welfare
*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.
More direct opposition to Ron Paul. Calling someone who genuinely supports Ron Paul a leftist is the typical attack used when those who oppose him are unable to defend their indefensible positions. It's really funny to hear that from a guy who is the loudest voice here for turning our country into north korea or east germany, complete with spying on people, biometrics, "papers, please" mentality, abusing people in concentration caps, and wall. If you are genuine about supporting Ron Paul on immigration, then go ahead and denounce trump for those things. Put up or shut up.You are the leftist.
I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)
The problem with what you guys are saying is that you just assume that Ron Paul agrees with you about whom he doesn't want to enter. He has clearly said over and over that he does not. You say "we" like there's some monolithic American opinion. There isn't. You have your opinion. I have mine. Ron Paul has his. And whatever your opinion is, you don't have a moral right to impose it on all the rest of us.
If someone wants to come here to work and not go on welfare, Ron Paul says he wants them to be able to.
To take some sound byte that doesn't actually contradict that position and twist it into him saying that he does support stopping people from immigrating here peacefully to work is dishonest.
If we let them come in legally, then that number would be near zero.
For most of us, that's part of the "whatever it takes." I get that for you it isn't. But that goes right back to the problem of you quoting sound bytes like that and pretending they mean that Ron Paul supports your views in the face of countless examples of him saying that he doesn't.
I think the "immigration reform" he was talking about was dealing with those already here unlawfully, as in amnesty versus deportation versus other approaches in between those extremes. He didn't want to grant amnesty to people who had crossed the border illegally while we still had unlimited numbers crossing the border illegally, since that would create incentive for more to do that. But if the illegal border crossings could be stopped, then something could be done with those already here that would allow them to stay without incentivizing more illegal crossing.
Of course, part of what could be done is making it easier to come here legally in the first place.
Last edited by Superfluous Man; 08-19-2019 at 09:07 AM.
But on many occasions he has said we can't and he doesn't support deporting all of them. Coming up with a legal way to do that would be part of the immigration reform he was talking about.
Also, note that if we let someone enter and stay legally, then they wouldn't be a violator of US law. The quote you give here is only about dealing with illegal immigration, not the question of more or less legal immigration.
The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
So you're saying that Ron Paul supported changing the current incoherent and unfair system to one where the same rules and waiting periods applied to legal immigrants from all countries.
How is that not what I've said?
It's pretty obvious from that quote that Ron Paul supported increasing legal immigration.
No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Ron Paul's position from 2007:
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
- Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
- Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
- No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
- No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
- End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
- Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26
"I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007
We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country
Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.
No amnesty.
End birthright citizenship
current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:
And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality
*No biometrics
*No walling our country in
*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
*End welfare entirely
*No abuse of prisoners in US custody
It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded use of biometrics
*Increased government spying
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
*Attempting to wall our country in
*No significant attempts to end welfare
*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.
Lie, lol? By all means, please provide a quote where I have said that these are not Ron Paul's positions.You don't get to lie about his positions.
You still haven't repudated your Authoritarian Idol for doing the things that you claim to oppose.
Let's keep the comedy rolling!
This can be done without biometrics or expansion of the big government police state. Obviously, Ron Paul would do this in such a way to be consistent with his other positions and platform. As an example, millions of people on probation are tracked without the government spying on them (and everyone else at the same time), they are simply required to make a phone call or show up at an office somewhere on a periodic basis.He wanted Visa holders tracked.
And then changed his position to one more in line with Liberty, and has opposed this ever since.He voted for the secure fence act.
Well, duh. This is just common sense. No matter how many people are or are not let in, you can't let enough of them in all at once such that the system to legally process them becomes overwhelmed.He said that allowing an unlimited number of people to come here was insanity.
I have an autographed copy of Revolution: A Manifesto for sale. Mint condition, inquire within. (I don't sign in often, so please allow plenty of time for a response)
Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.
He may oppose the wall now but that is irrelevant to his position in 2007, he voted for the secure fence act.
The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.
Hype.
And Ron voted for the Secure Fence act whether he changed his mind later or not.
WRONG.
LIES.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Ron Paul's position from 2007:
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:
- Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
- Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
- No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
- No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
- End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
- Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26
"I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007
We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country
Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.
No amnesty.
End birthright citizenship
current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
But he really didn't mean that.
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