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Thread: Venezuela Propaganda Debunked - People Are Against Coup

  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not every country has price controls and the controls make the sanctions worse not better.
    Why don't you give me the name of that one country without price controls, I want to investigate.

    Ever wonder why every single country that is sanctioned by the US suffer some form of hyper inflation? maybe its the way the country wards itself from complete takeover. The same way the body gets a fever when its fighting off infection. I am not exactly sure why but they must surely know something that you don't know, maybe the alternative to hyper inflation is the takeover of the nation.

    I am not going to sit here in my apt and tell them how to fight this war. All I can do is pray that they win the war.



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  3. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Wow, I didn't even realize until just now that there was no election between Maduro and Guaido. Guaido has just declared Maduro's election invalid and declared himself President based on presidential succession rules there. That's like if Pelosi just said that Trump/Pence was invalid and declared herself President since she would be third in line.
    And if the 2016 election was rigged she would be right.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And if the 2016 election was rigged she would be right.
    Are you sure you want to support such things, regardless of where they occur? If successful and even cheerleaded by Americans, the deep state could pull the exact same thing on your beloved Donald.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  5. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Are you sure you want to support such things, regardless of where they occur? If successful and even cheerleaded by Americans, the deep state could pull the exact same thing on your beloved Donald.
    Are you claiming he rigged the 2016 election?
    Are you claiming that overthrowing Trump would be morally equivalent to overthrowing Maduro?
    Are you claiming I support foreign intervention?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  7. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Are you claiming he rigged the 2016 election?
    No idea where that came from. He is presumably going to run for re-election. There's already rumblings of the 2020 election being rigged by China and Russia by the usual suspects.

    Are you claiming that overthrowing Trump would be morally equivalent to overthrowing Maduro?
    Deep state doesn't give a $#@!. If it forwards the agenda they'll do it to any head of state. Be careful supporting a precedent like that.

    Are you claiming I support foreign intervention?
    I'm claiming you're supporting setting a bad precedent that could just as easily be used against your own sacred cow if it is deemed necessary. Have you no foresight?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  8. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Wow, I didn't even realize until just now that there was no election between Maduro and Guaido. Guaido has just declared Maduro's election invalid and declared himself President based on presidential succession rules there. That's like if Pelosi just said that Trump/Pence was invalid and declared herself President since she would be third in line.
    Like has been pointed out repeatedly, it is more like if Trump dissolved the House after he lost the majority and then created a brand new branch of government with only his friends in it.

    I don't pretend to understand Venezuela's constitution, but there are a myriad of Venezuelan nationals claiming that the Presidency is unconstitutional, and as such Guaido is the rightful interim president, as Pelosi would be if Trump tried to cling to power by rigging elections.

    By all means though, continue to believe you know a lot more about it than those of us following it for years now because of the YouTubers.
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-03-2019 at 09:21 PM.

  9. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    No idea where that came from. He is presumably going to run for re-election. There's already rumblings of the 2020 election being rigged by China and Russia by the usual suspects.


    So Tump is controlled by China and Russia, except in Venezuela.

    The sun never sets on the conspiracy empire.

  10. #428
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    No idea where that came from. He is presumably going to run for re-election. There's already rumblings of the 2020 election being rigged by China and Russia by the usual suspects.
    If Trump didn't rig the 2016 election then Pelosi can't claim the presidency.



    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Deep state doesn't give a $#@!. If it forwards the agenda they'll do it to any head of state. Be careful supporting a precedent like that.
    I support the overthrow of an evil regime by the natives of the country involved, that is a precedent that must be supported by any moral person, it is a far worse precedent to say that the citizens of a country do not have the right to alter or abolish any government that is destructive to their rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    I'm claiming you're supporting setting a bad precedent that could just as easily be used against your own sacred cow if it is deemed necessary. Have you no foresight?
    As I pointed out above I am supporting the only moral precedent, I'll risk the hazards of liberty rather than accept that the citizens of a nation can't overthrow a communist regime.

    You are setting a precedent that no regime no matter how evil can be overthrown, have you no foresight?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post


    So Tump is controlled by China and Russia, except in Venezuela.

    The sun never sets on the conspiracy empire.
    What is your problem? You MUST be Shillsmyth also since you insist on grotesquely twisting everything someone posts into something that the poster never said and no one except you would take such interpretation. The tactic and post style is remarkably consistent.


    You are setting a precedent that no regime no matter how evil can be overthrown, have you no foresight?
    I'm still waiting for that video evidence of your claims about conditions in Venezuela.
    Last edited by devil21; 02-03-2019 at 10:49 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  12. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    What is your problem? You MUST be Shillsmyth also since you insist on grotesquely twisting everything someone posts into something that the poster never said and no one except you would take such interpretation. The tactic and post style is remarkably consistent.
    LOL

    Angela and I are horribly opposed on the question of vaccines, you are letting your paranoia run away with you.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post

    I'm still waiting for that video evidence of your claims about conditions in Venezuela.
    Potatos are tubers. Let's play scavenger hunt, tuber. Go find something dated earlier than 30 days ago that says everything is awesome in Venezuela.





    Begging for food in Venezuela

    Deteriorating Situation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Health Care Crisis

    Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Zoo Animals Starve To Death

    Food Crisis In Venezuela

    Photos Of Venezuela's Food Crisis

    Why Are People In Venezuela Going Hungry?

    Starving Children Abandoned During Food Crisis

    Venezuelan Babies Starving to Death

    Starving Pets Abandoned In Venezuela

    Venezuelan Families Dig Through Trash For Food

    Starvation For The People, Empanadas for the Powerful (Reason)


    Starvation In Venezuela

    Venezeulan Parents Leave, Abandon Starving Children

    Venezuelans Families Scavenge To Find Food

    Venezuelans Face Hyperinflation, Starvation, Collapsing Economy

    Hyperinflation Fuels Instability, Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Suffer Deadly Shortage Of Medicine

    Sick People In Venezuela Taking Dog Medicine Because Pharmacies Are Empty

    Venezuela's Chronic Shortage Of Medicine

    Venezuela's Horrific Food, Medicine Crisis

    Children Dying From Lack Of Food, Medicine in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Storm Into Columbia To Buy Food, Medicine

    Lack of Medicine, Doctors Perpetuates Venezuela's Health Crisis

    Venezuelan Hospitals Critically Short Of Supplies

    Families Escape Venezuela As Medicine Shortages Reach Record Highs

    Venezuelans Protest Lack of Food, Medicine

    Venezuela's Hospitals Face Crisis

    Food, Medicine and Fuel Shortages in Venezuela

    Medicine Shortage Creates Dire Situation in Venezuela

    Medicne SHortages in Venezuela

    Venezuela Faces Food, Medicine Shortage

    Venezuelan Hospitals Struggle To Provide Even Basic Services

    And I only stopped here because my dog has to go out. What $#@!ing world do you live in where you can honestly assert that there's not really any humanitarian crisis in Venezuela? FFS - go out to the internet and talk to people who live there.
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-03-2019 at 11:51 PM.

  14. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    LOL

    Angela and I are horribly opposed on the question of vaccines, you are letting your paranoia run away with you.
    Fabricating a reality to suit his delusions? I am shocked.

    So Trump is a Russian puppet, except in Venezuela.
    I am Swordsmyth.

    I miss Eduardo. He'd be awesome in this discussion.
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-03-2019 at 11:53 PM.



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  16. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Potatos are tubers. Let's play scavenger hunt, tuber. Go find something dated earlier than 30 days ago that says everything is awesome in Venezuela.





    Begging for food in Venezuela

    Deteriorating Situation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Health Care Crisis

    Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Zoo Animals Starve To Death

    Food Crisis In Venezuela

    Photos Of Venezuela's Food Crisis

    Why Are People In Venezuela Going Hungry?

    Starving Children Abandoned During Food Crisis

    Venezuelan Babies Starving to Death

    Starving Pets Abandoned In Venezuela

    Venezuelan Families Dig Through Trash For Food

    Starvation For The People, Empanadas for the Powerful (Reason)


    Starvation In Venezuela

    Venezeulan Parents Leave, Abandon Starving Children

    Venezuelans Families Scavenge To Find Food

    Venezuelans Face Hyperinflation, Starvation, Collapsing Economy

    Hyperinflation Fuels Instability, Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Suffer Deadly Shortage Of Medicine

    Sick People In Venezuela Taking Dog Medicine Because Pharmacies Are Empty

    Venezuela's Chronic Shortage Of Medicine

    Venezuela's Horrific Food, Medicine Crisis

    Children Dying From Lack Of Food, Medicine in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Storm Into Columbia To Buy Food, Medicine

    Lack of Medicine, Doctors Perpetuates Venezuela's Health Crisis

    Venezuelan Hospitals Critically Short Of Supplies

    Families Escape Venezuela As Medicine Shortages Reach Record Highs

    Venezuelans Protest Lack of Food, Medicine

    Venezuela's Hospitals Face Crisis

    Food, Medicine and Fuel Shortages in Venezuela

    Medicine Shortage Creates Dire Situation in Venezuela

    Medicne SHortages in Venezuela

    Venezuela Faces Food, Medicine Shortage

    Venezuelan Hospitals Struggle To Provide Even Basic Services

    And I only stopped here because my dog has to go out. What $#@!ing world do you live in where you can honestly assert that there's not really any humanitarian crisis in Venezuela? FFS - go out to the internet and talk to people who live there.
    You must spread some reputation around.....................
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #434
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Potatos are tubers. Let's play scavenger hunt, tuber. Go find something dated earlier than 30 days ago that says everything is awesome in Venezuela.





    Begging for food in Venezuela

    Deteriorating Situation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Health Care Crisis

    Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Zoo Animals Starve To Death

    Food Crisis In Venezuela

    Photos Of Venezuela's Food Crisis

    Why Are People In Venezuela Going Hungry?

    Starving Children Abandoned During Food Crisis

    Venezuelan Babies Starving to Death

    Starving Pets Abandoned In Venezuela

    Venezuelan Families Dig Through Trash For Food

    Starvation For The People, Empanadas for the Powerful (Reason)


    Starvation In Venezuela

    Venezeulan Parents Leave, Abandon Starving Children

    Venezuelans Families Scavenge To Find Food

    Venezuelans Face Hyperinflation, Starvation, Collapsing Economy

    Hyperinflation Fuels Instability, Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Suffer Deadly Shortage Of Medicine

    Sick People In Venezuela Taking Dog Medicine Because Pharmacies Are Empty

    Venezuela's Chronic Shortage Of Medicine

    Venezuela's Horrific Food, Medicine Crisis

    Children Dying From Lack Of Food, Medicine in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Storm Into Columbia To Buy Food, Medicine

    Lack of Medicine, Doctors Perpetuates Venezuela's Health Crisis

    Venezuelan Hospitals Critically Short Of Supplies

    Families Escape Venezuela As Medicine Shortages Reach Record Highs

    Venezuelans Protest Lack of Food, Medicine

    Venezuela's Hospitals Face Crisis

    Food, Medicine and Fuel Shortages in Venezuela

    Medicine Shortage Creates Dire Situation in Venezuela

    Medicne SHortages in Venezuela

    Venezuela Faces Food, Medicine Shortage

    Venezuelan Hospitals Struggle To Provide Even Basic Services

    And I only stopped here because my dog has to go out. What $#@!ing world do you live in where you can honestly assert that there's not really any humanitarian crisis in Venezuela? FFS - go out to the internet and talk to people who live there.
    That is almost literally the same story over and over and it's always bread, toilet paper and some medical supplies. The Abby Martin vid I posted addresses those three items clearly as being the only goods not readily available....and wouldn't ya know it but those items all originate from a few CORPORATIONS withholding those particular supplies from shelves. Yes, we can agree that TP and wheat and some meds are scarce and prices in local currencies are high (which I already explained why earlier in the thread), but none of those show "starving people" or any of the breathless claims made by you/SS.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  18. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    These people are trolling, and they shouldn't be allowed here.

    We should all be here advocating for free markets and small government, instead we have the conspiracy theorist liberals defending democracy and tyranny.
    Instead, you are here showing support for US intervention in yet another country. Fox News says Guiado is a good guy! So let's cheer him on as he and the US government embark on another adventure of regime change. And let's call anyone who opposes it, freedom hating commies!
    A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.

  19. #436
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Potatos are tubers. Let's play scavenger hunt, tuber. Go find something dated earlier than 30 days ago that says everything is awesome in Venezuela.





    Begging for food in Venezuela

    Deteriorating Situation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Health Care Crisis

    Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuela's Zoo Animals Starve To Death

    Food Crisis In Venezuela

    Photos Of Venezuela's Food Crisis

    Why Are People In Venezuela Going Hungry?

    Starving Children Abandoned During Food Crisis

    Venezuelan Babies Starving to Death

    Starving Pets Abandoned In Venezuela

    Venezuelan Families Dig Through Trash For Food

    Starvation For The People, Empanadas for the Powerful (Reason)


    Starvation In Venezuela

    Venezeulan Parents Leave, Abandon Starving Children

    Venezuelans Families Scavenge To Find Food

    Venezuelans Face Hyperinflation, Starvation, Collapsing Economy

    Hyperinflation Fuels Instability, Starvation in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Suffer Deadly Shortage Of Medicine

    Sick People In Venezuela Taking Dog Medicine Because Pharmacies Are Empty

    Venezuela's Chronic Shortage Of Medicine

    Venezuela's Horrific Food, Medicine Crisis

    Children Dying From Lack Of Food, Medicine in Venezuela

    Venezuelans Storm Into Columbia To Buy Food, Medicine

    Lack of Medicine, Doctors Perpetuates Venezuela's Health Crisis

    Venezuelan Hospitals Critically Short Of Supplies

    Families Escape Venezuela As Medicine Shortages Reach Record Highs

    Venezuelans Protest Lack of Food, Medicine

    Venezuela's Hospitals Face Crisis

    Food, Medicine and Fuel Shortages in Venezuela

    Medicine Shortage Creates Dire Situation in Venezuela

    Medicne SHortages in Venezuela

    Venezuela Faces Food, Medicine Shortage

    Venezuelan Hospitals Struggle To Provide Even Basic Services

    And I only stopped here because my dog has to go out. What $#@!ing world do you live in where you can honestly assert that there's not really any humanitarian crisis in Venezuela? FFS - go out to the internet and talk to people who live there.

    The term "humanitarian crisis" is the same term that the MSM uses to justify intervention in other people's countries. There is a "humanitarian crisis" going on in countries all over the world. The only difference between the "humanitarian crisis" currently going in South Sudan or Congo and the "humanitarian crisis" in Venezuela is that Fox News hasn't told you about it so you don't post about it. Why aren't you clamoring for regime change in those countries? Oh yeah, that's right, you need Fox News to tell you about it first then you will make a post.

    But oh in Venezuela, there IS a current regime change operation in progress so YOU being the humanitarian that you are, you must show your support for it! And anyone who opposes it is a heartless, freedom hating, COMMIE lover!!
    Last edited by twomp; 02-04-2019 at 11:37 AM.
    A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.

  20. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You must spread some reputation around.....................
    Hahaha it's cute watching you suckle up to mommy.
    A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.

  21. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    That is almost literally the same story over and over and it's always bread, toilet paper and some medical supplies. The Abby Martin vid I posted addresses those three items clearly as being the only goods not readily available....and wouldn't ya know it but those items all originate from a few CORPORATIONS withholding those particular supplies from shelves.
    Withholding is a stretch. What has happened is that the government attempted to impose prices for goods which were below the cost of production. Obviously, that only works so long as there is stock on the shelves; as soon as inventories run out, no more will be produced, no matter how loudly the so-called revolutionaries yell about evil corporations.

    Apparently, math is an evil American / TPTB plot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  22. #439

    Militias, guerrilla warfare in a rugged tropical environment

    John Bolton’s Plan to Starve Millions of Venezuelans into Submission

    It is true Venezuela’s economic problems are in large part due to that country’s socialist command economy, but this overlooks the role played by the United States, the United Nations, and the European Union.

    Over the last five years, the US has imposed financial sanctions on Venezuela. It has cut it off from western financial markets and this has resulted in oil production shortfalls. Venezuela is unable to raise capital to address deficiencies in the oil sector of its economy. This situation was exacerbated when the price of petroleum fell sharply around the world. Venezuelan debt instruments are banned by the US Treasury, thus preventing it from acquiring loans to address its severe economic problems and feed the people.

    The pattern has become rote. Nations that are not captive to neoliberalism suddenly find they have a terrorist problem. If the nation in question is communist or quasi-communist, no terrorist false flags are required, the evil venality of Leninism and Stalinism are enough to gain consensus for economic warfare followed by a physical invasion if the leader in question does not fall or acquiesce.

    Trump’s national security adviser has tweeted in Spanish:
    10.7K people are talking about this

    This is unprecedented—Bolton publicly announcing a military coup (usually with hundreds if not thousands of deaths). He deliberately showed off his notebook with scribbled invasion plans, so there would be no question about the agenda.

    But that’s how the neocons operate. Lies, falsifications, grandiose claims, and invasions to forcibly install “democracy,” which is nothing of the sort.

    Bolton’s “democracy” is doublespeak in action. It’s a thinly disguised euphemism used to obscure the actual objective—the destruction of entire nations, cultures, and societies at the cost of hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives. Untold millions of lives have been destroyed by the sort of “democracy” Bolton is talking about. It was put into action when Bolton was a toddler.

    Let’s get real. Bolton doesn’t care about the people of Venezuela. If he did the US would not be imposing harsh sanctions that are resulting in malnutrition and starvation. Bolton is using the age-old technique of starving and depriving people so they will overthrow the government (this tactic rarely works—leading me to believe it is inflicted out of pure sadism—leading to the exact opposite reaction).

    The people know the rule of the elite in Venezuela results in endless poverty and a large underclass of desperate people. This is primary reason they voted for Hugo Chávez and his version of the Bolivarian Revolution. His Bolivarian missions provided access to food, housing, healthcare, and education. Standard socialist nationalization took control away from transnational corporations and banks eager to financialize everything in sight.

    At this point it appears Trump’s neocon and CFR wizards will strive to get the military to go against Maduro, who is dedicated to not backing down. Trump may convince (bribe, threaten) the generals to go over to the self-proclaimed president, Juan Guaidó, but there is one very large obstacle—the National Boliviarian Militia and the so-called Peasant Militia, the latter “responsible for protecting poor farmers from mercenary groups organized and financed by ranchers and wealthy landowners,” that is to say the people supporting Guaidó.

    “The peasant militia will also assist the regular army ‘against any foreign aggressor,’ wrote Chavez, who has warned that the US military could invade Venezuela in order to seize control of its vast oil reserves,” explains Kiraz Janicke.

    “The peasant militias, which are active in rural areas, will complement the primarily urban-based Bolivarian Militias, which were incorporated into the reform of the Armed Forces Law that came into force on October 22, 2009.”

    In short, if the US invades, it won’t be a clean sweep ....

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...to-submission/
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only show up to attack Trump when he is wrong
    Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again

  23. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Withholding is a stretch. What has happened is that the government attempted to impose prices for goods which were below the cost of production. Obviously, that only works so long as there is stock on the shelves; as soon as inventories run out, no more will be produced, no matter how loudly the so-called revolutionaries yell about evil corporations.

    Apparently, math is an evil American / TPTB plot.
    Who could have guessed it, The one and only The count is siding with Trump and the neocons. If this development surprises, then u haven't been around here for too long.

    I know some of u would like to play stupid on this issue but there is serious sabotage by the elite in that country. This is not a normal reaction to a govt policy. Generally what u see is low quality, rubbish products put out to satisfy the govt price control laws. But when u see no products at all, then something else is gong on. Just like how the CIA sabotaged the Chilean trucking industry by paying workers not to work, something similar may e going on here. This is not a normal market reaction to govt price control.



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  25. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    No idea where that came from. He is presumably going to run for re-election. There's already rumblings of the 2020 election being rigged by China and Russia by the usual suspects.
    The usual suspects being the Jesuits?

    I can't always keep straight who here holds to which conspiracy theories.

  26. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The usual suspects being the Jesuits?

    I can't always keep straight who here holds to which conspiracy theories.
    Let me help catch you up. Some people claim the Jesuits are actually jews.
    That probably clears up some confusion.
    https://www.bing.com/search?q=the+je...re+crypto+jews

  27. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Let me help catch you up. Some people claim the Jesuits are actually jews.
    That probably clears up some confusion.
    https://www.bing.com/search?q=the+je...re+crypto+jews
    Thanks for that clarification.

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to specsaregood again."

  28. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by twomp View Post
    The term "humanitarian crisis" is the same term that the MSM uses to justify intervention in other people's countries. There is a "humanitarian crisis" going on in countries all over the world. The only difference between the "humanitarian crisis" currently going in South Sudan or Congo and the "humanitarian crisis" in Venezuela is that Fox News hasn't told you about it so you don't post about it. Why aren't you clamoring for regime change in those countries? Oh yeah, that's right, you need Fox News to tell you about it first then you will make a post.

    But oh in Venezuela, there IS a current regime change operation in progress so YOU being the humanitarian that you are, you must show your support for it! And anyone who opposes it is a heartless, freedom hating, COMMIE lover!!
    I could have sworn Ron Paul told us they only go all humanitarian (with bombs, missiles and guns) after our embargoes starve them. And that only happens to countries that try to sell oil for Petrodollars.

    You'd think someone who was around here for a decade would remember that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  29. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    That is almost literally the same story over and over and it's always bread, toilet paper and some medical supplies.
    You're in full-on cognitive dissonance. For those of you reading at home, nobody is eating zoo animals and rotten meat they scavenged from dumpsters because the local store was simply out of bread. The hospitals aren't simply out of "some medicine." Their machines are broken, their linens are filthy, there are no sterile gloves or instruments, there's no dialysis, fungus and sepsis are rampant, and children are literally dying from conditions that would be treatable by generic antibiotics.


    The Abby Martin vid I posted addresses those three items clearly as being the only goods not readily available.....
    Abby Martin is literally paid by Maduro's government. She literally works for, and this is John Stossel's description, media run by socialist murderers. I know there's no rational explanation, but how on Earth could you choose to believe only that one well-paid propagandist rather than looking at the complete body of work that has taken place over the last decade by journalists from both sides of the aisle from every developed nation on Earth?

    and wouldn't ya know it but those items all originate from a few CORPORATIONS withholding those particular supplies from shelves
    FFS, it's almost like you don't actually know anything about Venezuela except what you saw on Venezuelan officially produced YouTube video a couple days ago. Maduro has BANNED all imports. Everything. From everybody. China, Cuba, Iran, are all countries with access to food, medicine and toilet paper. Nobody has stopped selling Venezuela anything. That isn't what capitalists do. Venezuela has made it illegal to import anything.

    Pick one: Is capitalism evil and Maduro is right to fend off the capitalist pigs by refusing to engage in trade, or is Maduro right when he cries that the capitalists are ruining his country when they don't engage in trade?

    Yes, we can agree that TP and wheat and some meds are scarce and prices in local currencies are high (which I already explained why earlier in the thread), but none of those show "starving people" or any of the breathless claims made by you/SS.
    Yes, the absolutely 100% totally do. Here are more.

    Venezuela's Children Are Dying Of Malnutrition


    For five months, The New York Times tracked 21 public hospitals in Venezuela. Doctors are seeing record numbers of children with severe malnutrition. Hundreds have died.
    But deaths from malnutrition have remained a closely guarded secret by the Venezuelan government. In a five-month investigation by The New York Times, doctors at 21 public hospitals in 17 states across the country said that their emergency rooms were being overwhelmed by children with severe malnutrition — a condition they had rarely encountered before the economic crisis began.



    Parents ... go days without eating, shriveling to the weight of children themselves. Women line up at sterilization clinics to avoid having children they can’t feed. Young boys leave home and join street gangs to scavenge for scraps, their bodies bearing the scars of knife fights with competitors. Crowds of adults storm Dumpsters after restaurants close. Babies die because it is hard to find or afford infant formula, even in emergency rooms.
    “Sometimes they die in your arms just from dehydration,” Dr. Milagros Hernández said in the emergency room of a children’s hospital in the northern city of Barquisimeto, noting that the hospital had started seeing an increase in malnourished patients at the end of 2016.

    “But in 2017 the increase in malnourished patients has been terrible,” she added. “Children arrive with the same weight and height of a newborn.
    The Venezuelan government has tried to cover up the extent of the crisis by enforcing a near-total blackout of health statistics, and by creating a culture in which doctors are often afraid to register cases and deaths that may be associated with the government’s failures.

    But the statistics that have come out are staggering. In the Ministry of Health’s 2015 annual report, the mortality rate for children under 4 weeks old had increased a hundredfold, from 0.02 percent in 2012 to just over 2 percent. Maternal mortality had increased nearly fivefold in the same period.
    For almost two years, the government did not publish a single epidemiological bulletin tracking statistics like infant mortality. Then in April of (2017), a link suddenly appeared on the Health Ministry’s official website, leading to the unpublished bulletins. They showed that 11,446 children under the age of 1 had died in 2016 — a 30 percent increase in one year — as the economic crisis accelerated.

    The new findings made national and international headlines before the government declared that the website had been hacked, and the reports were swiftly removed. The health minister was fired and the military was put in charge of monitoring the bulletins. No reports have been released since.

    Doctors are censored in hospitals, too, often warned not to include malnutrition in children’s medical records
    Nearly all of Venezuelan hospitals report shortages of basic provisions like baby formula.

    President Nicolás Maduro has acknowledged that people are hungry in Venezuela, but he has refused to accept international aid, often saying that Venezuela’s economic problems are caused by foreign adversaries like the United States, which he says is waging an economic war against his country.
    But the nation’s political opposition, which has been stripped of its power by the government, continues to sound the alarm.

    “We have a people who are dying of hunger,” Luis Florido, a congressman who leads the democratically elected National Assembly’s foreign policy committee, told lawmakers in November, calling the food crisis “a humanitarian emergency that all Venezuelans are living.”
    This baby died because hos mother contracted the Zika virus, and therefore could not breastfeed the infant. There was no infant formula to be found, and the concoctions they attempted to feed him was not nutritious enough. He starved to death because there was no infant formula.
    His parents had taken him to three emergency rooms. Each hospital was full. “I was desperate — and seeing so many, so many children in the same situation as our boy,” Ms. Hernández said.

    When they were admitted to Dr. Domingo Luciani, they were tremendously relieved. But soon they watched a steady stream of parents arriving with malnourished babies — only to leave, crying, “My child has died!”


    Children suffering from malnutrition occupied four of the 12 beds in the pediatric emergency room that day in August. Doctors there said they had received malnutrition cases nearly every day — a rarity until the crisis started getting worse two years ago.

    2017: Hundreds of people are dying of starvation in Venezuela:
    Doctors are seeing record numbers of children with severe malnutrition. Hundreds have died


    Dr. Jorge Gaiti said he had requested 193 necessary medications from the government agency responsible for distributing them to public hospitals. Only four of the 193 were delivered, according to the reports visible on his computer. The hospital even lacks the most basic medical supplies — soap, syringes, gauze, diapers and latex gloves.



    (Below) Dayferlin Aguilar, a 5-month-old girl diagnosed with malnutrition and dehydration, treated at Dr. Agustín Zubillaga University Hospital of Pediatrics in August.


    (Below)
    At 18 days old, Esteban Granadillo was taken to Dr. Agustín Zubillaga University Hospital of Pediatrics with severe malnutrition
    Esteban’s mother was single and unable to breast-feed him. “We could not find formula anywhere,” said Ms. Peraza, the great-aunt. Ms. Peraza stayed at the hospital next to Esteban’s incubator for days, stroking his stomach through the openings and whispering softly to him. He spent weeks in and out of the hospital — and died on Oct. 8


    (Below) Skipping meals so her children can eat: This is the mother of one of the dead children mentioned above.
    Kenyerber’s mother, María Carolina Merchán, right, weighs just 66 pounds. Her daughter follows her for hours, begging for food.
    (Below) Venezuela's Public Health Emergency
    BARCELONA, Venezuela — By morning, three newborns were already dead.

    The day had begun with the usual hazards: chronic shortages of antibiotics, intravenous solutions, even food. Then a blackout swept over the city, shutting down the respirators in the maternity ward.

    Doctors kept ailing infants alive by pumping air into their lungs by hand for hours. By nightfall, four more newborns had died.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    2016:
    Hospital wards have become crucibles where the forces tearing Venezuela apart have converged. Gloves and soap have vanished from some hospitals. Often, cancer medicines are found only on the black market. There is so little electricity that the government works only two days a week to save what energy is left.

    At the University of the Andes Hospital in the mountain city of Mérida, there was not enough water to wash blood from the operating table. Doctors preparing for surgery cleaned their hands with bottles of seltzer water.

    “It is like something from the 19th century,” said Dr. Christian Pino, a surgeon at the hospital.

    (Below): Yulitza Roa, 15, who has a brain tumor, is awaiting surgery that has been delayed because Luis Razetti Hospital does not have the needed scanning equipment functioning.

    I doubt that anywhere in the world, except in Cuba, there exists a better health system than this one,” Mr. Maduro said.

    Late last fall, the aging pumps that supplied water to the University of the Andes Hospital exploded. They were not repaired for months.

    So without water, gloves, soap or antibiotics, a group of surgeons prepared to remove an appendix that was about to burst, even though the operating room was still covered in another patient’s blood.

    Around 10 one recent night, Dr. Freddy Díaz walked down a hall there that had become an impromptu ward for patients who had no beds. Some clutched blood-soaked bandages and called from the floor for help. One, brought in by the police, was handcuffed to a gurney. In a supply room, cockroaches fled as the door swung open.

    Dr. Díaz logged a patient’s medical data on the back of a bank statement someone had thrown in the trash.

    “We have run out of paper here,” he said.


    On the fourth floor, one of his patients, Rosa Parucho, 68, was one of the few who had managed to get a bed, though the rotting mattress had left her back covered in sores.

    But those were the least of her problems: Ms. Parucho, a diabetic, was unable to receive kidney dialysis because the machines were broken. An infection had spread to her feet, which were black that night. She was going into septic shock.

    Ms. Parucho needed oxygen, but none was available. Her hands twitched and her eyes rolled into the back of her head.

    “The bacteria aren’t dying; they’re growing,” Dr. Díaz said, noting that three of the antibiotics Ms. Parucho needed had been unavailable for months.[/QUOTE]

    Three relatives sat reading the Old Testament before an unconscious woman. She had arrived six days before, but because a scanning machine had broken, it was days before anyone discovered the tumor occupying a quarter of her frontal lobe.


    Samuel Castillo, 21, arrived in the emergency room needing blood. But supplies had run out. A holiday had been declared by the government to save electricity, and the blood bank took donations only on workdays. Mr. Castillo died that night.

    For the past two and a half months, the hospital has not had a way to print X-rays. So patients must use a smartphone to take a picture of their scans and take them to the proper doctor.

    “It looks like tuberculosis,” said an emergency room doctor looking at the scan of a lung on a cellphone. “But I can’t tell. The quality is bad.”
    Nicolás Espinosa sat next to his tiny daughter, who has spent two of her five years with cancer. He was running out of money to pay for her intravenous solutions. Inflation had increased the price by 16 times what he paid a year ago.

    He flipped through a list of medicines he was trying to find here in Barcelona and in a neighboring city. Some of the drugs are meant to protect the body during chemotherapy, yet the girl’s treatments ended when the oncology department ran out of the necessary drugs a month and a half ago.
    iceńa Pérez, 36, scanned the halls looking for anyone who would listen to her.

    “Can someone help my father?” she asked.

    Her father, José Calvo, 61, had contracted Chagas’ disease, a sickness caused by a parasite. But the medication Mr. Calvo had been prescribed ran out in his part of Venezuela that year, and he began to suffer heart failure.
    The ninth floor of the hospital is the maternity ward, where the seven babies had died the day before. A room at the end of the hall was filled with broken incubators.

    The glass on one was smashed. Red, yellow and blue wires dangled from another.

    “Don’t use — nonfunctional,” said a sign dated last November.

    Dr. Amalia Rodríguez stood in the hallway.

    “I had a patient just now who needed artificial respiration, and I had none available,” Dr. Rodríguez said. “A baby. What can we do?
    I know you like video: Here's one from FEE:


    2016: My Venezuela Diary: The looting, the blackouts, the mob lynchings, the hospitals with no supplies. Venezuela’s collapse into disarray is of a scale unseen in the Western Hemisphere in decades. In an effort to illustrate what day-to-day life is like on the ground, Fabiola Zerpa documented her efforts to secure food for her middle-class family. This is a selection of entries from her month-long chronicle.



    Thursday. My one chance in the week to buy staples—cooking oil, rice, laundry detergent—at state-set prices. All Venezuelan adults are assigned days of the week to shop for regulated goods based on the numbers on our national ID cards. My days are Sundays and Thursdays. Sundays are useless, though. Stores stopped selling regulated goods over the weekend a long time ago. Thursdays are only marginally more useful. For the past several months, the lines at the two supermarkets near my house in eastern Caracas have been so long, stretching out for two blocks, that it’d take hours to get a chance to shop. And then there’s no guarantee I’ll find anything once inside.

    But later, as my day’s winding down, I stumble upon a little treasure. At a local kiosk, I spot a generic, lactose-based product. It isn’t quite milk—that’s almost impossible to find—but it’s worth a try. Maybe the kids will like it. I walk away with two bottles in my hand and a huge smile on my face.
    I walk over to the supermarket next door. Top on my list now are vegetables and meat. I find the vegetables—potatoes, onions, plantains—but there’s no meat. And I pay about twice as much as I had just five months earlier.


    Big score. Isaac got his hands on 5 kilos of corn flour. This is huge. Flour is the main ingredient in arepas, the flat, round corn bread that’s the most important staple in the Venezuelan diet. Isaac paid dearly: 1,500 bolivars per kilo. That’s eight times more than the regulated price. It was worth it, though. Our supply was really running low. Replenished now, we can use some of it as a bartering tool with friends and family. (Two kilos, for instance, would go to my sister-in-law Raquel days later in exchange for the powdered milk she used to pass on to us.)
    The collapse of the socialist economy has left supermarket shelves empty

    This is a line for 1 litre of cooking oil and 1 kg of pasta. Soldiers armed with machine guns are there keeping order.








    And maybe I missed it, but I asked you for a single video that was made earlier than 30 days ago that accused the entire global community of propaganda and insinuating that everything in Venezuela is peachy keen. What's up with that?

  30. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I could have sworn Ron Paul told us they only go all humanitarian (with bombs, missiles and guns) after our embargoes starve them. And that only happens to countries that try to sell oil for Petrodollars.

    You'd think someone who was around here for a decade would remember that.
    You'd think that someone whose been here for a decade ago wouldn't have to fabricate an alternate reality. (But I really should remember you are the same people that think all mass shootings are fake.)

    Man I am so $#@!ing tired of the same bull$#@! talking points. Up until a couple weeks ago, we weren't embargoing them - they banned all imports.

  31. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    You're in full-on cognitive dissonance. For those of you reading at home, nobody is eating zoo animals and rotten meat they scavenged from dumpsters because the local store was simply out of bread. The hospitals aren't simply out of "some medicine." Their machines are broken, their linens are filthy, there are no sterile gloves or instruments, there's no dialysis, fungus and sepsis are rampant, and children are literally dying from conditions that would be treatable by generic antibiotics.




    Abby Martin is literally paid by Maduro's government. She literally works for, and this is John Stossel's description, media run by socialist murderers. I know there's no rational explanation, but how on Earth could you choose to believe only that one well-paid propagandist rather than looking at the complete body of work that has taken place over the last decade by journalists from both sides of the aisle from every developed nation on Earth?



    FFS, it's almost like you don't actually know anything about Venezuela except what you saw on Venezuelan officially produced YouTube video a couple days ago. Maduro has BANNED all imports. Everything. From everybody. China, Cuba, Iran, are all countries with access to food, medicine and toilet paper. Nobody has stopped selling Venezuela anything. That isn't what capitalists do. Venezuela has made it illegal to import anything.

    Pick one: Is capitalism evil and Maduro is right to fend off the capitalist pigs by refusing to engage in trade, or is Maduro right when he cries that the capitalists are ruining his country when they don't engage in trade?

    Yes, the absolutely 100% totally do. Here are more.

    Venezuela's Children Are Dying Of Malnutrition






    [/B]












    This baby died because hos mother contracted the Zika virus, and therefore could not breastfeed the infant. There was no infant formula to be found, and the concoctions they attempted to feed him was not nutritious enough. He starved to death because there was no infant formula.





    2017: Hundreds of people are dying of starvation in Venezuela:

    Dr. Jorge Gaiti said he had requested 193 necessary medications from the government agency responsible for distributing them to public hospitals. Only four of the 193 were delivered, according to the reports visible on his computer. The hospital even lacks the most basic medical supplies — soap, syringes, gauze, diapers and latex gloves.



    (Below) Dayferlin Aguilar, a 5-month-old girl diagnosed with malnutrition and dehydration, treated at Dr. Agustín Zubillaga University Hospital of Pediatrics in August.


    (Below) Esteban’s mother was single and unable to breast-feed him. “We could not find formula anywhere,” said Ms. Peraza, the great-aunt. Ms. Peraza stayed at the hospital next to Esteban’s incubator for days, stroking his stomach through the openings and whispering softly to him. He spent weeks in and out of the hospital — and died on Oct. 8


    (Below) Skipping meals so her children can eat: This is the mother of one of the dead children mentioned above.

    (Below) Venezuela's Public Health Emergency

    [IMG][/IMG]

    2016:


    (Below): Yulitza Roa, 15, who has a brain tumor, is awaiting surgery that has been delayed because Luis Razetti Hospital does not have the needed scanning equipment functioning.






    [/B]







    I know you like video: Here's one from FEE:


    2016: My Venezuela Diary: The looting, the blackouts, the mob lynchings, the hospitals with no supplies. Venezuela’s collapse into disarray is of a scale unseen in the Western Hemisphere in decades. In an effort to illustrate what day-to-day life is like on the ground, Fabiola Zerpa documented her efforts to secure food for her middle-class family. This is a selection of entries from her month-long chronicle.














    The collapse of the socialist economy has left supermarket shelves empty

    This is a line for 1 litre of cooking oil and 1 kg of pasta. Soldiers armed with machine guns are there keeping order.








    And maybe I missed it, but I asked you for a single video that was made earlier than 30 days ago that accused the entire global community of propaganda and insinuating that everything in Venezuela is peachy keen. What's up with that?

    You can find pictures of people picking through trash here in the US. Where are the posts of people having to eat their cat for lunch? You guys said they are "starving to death" right? No one in Venezuela must have pets anymore right? Venezuela must be the worse place on earth right now right? The only difference between the "humanitarian crisis" in Venezuela and the "humanitarian crisis" going on in any other random country is that Trump and the neocons have decided they want a puppet in there (see Guiado). Once that happens, all the cameras and the attention will leave and you and the neocons will be clamoring for another regime change in another country for "humanitarian" purposes. There are plenty of countries that could use your help after all.
    A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.

  32. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by twomp View Post
    The term "humanitarian crisis" is the same term that the MSM uses to justify intervention in other people's countries. There is a "humanitarian crisis" going on in countries all over the world. The only difference between the "humanitarian crisis" currently going in South Sudan or Congo and the "humanitarian crisis" in Venezuela is that Fox News hasn't told you about it so you don't post about it. Why aren't you clamoring for regime change in those countries? Oh yeah, that's right, you need Fox News to tell you about it first then you will make a post.

    But oh in Venezuela, there IS a current regime change operation in progress so YOU being the humanitarian that you are, you must show your support for it! And anyone who opposes it is a heartless, freedom hating, COMMIE lover!!
    OMFG. You totally missed the biggest point you just made.

    The difference is that the humanatarian crisis is because it's exactly what we see in regions like Congo and Sudan, except this isn't Congo or Sudan. 10 short years ago they were the wealthiest country in South America.

    THey are literally sitting on more oil wealth than we can imagine, and their people are living like they're in the Congo or Sudan. THAT'S THE STORY - THE TRAGEDY! IT IS CERTAINLY NOT THE DEFENSE.

    IF you were so hip to world events, not watching the news or anything, then for the love of $#@!ing God, why weren't you bitching about my posts for the last 4 years as I was pointing out the socialist country of Venezuela was economically unraveling and people were dying?
    Last edited by angelatc; 02-04-2019 at 01:33 PM.



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  34. #449
    All of this talk about hyperinflation in Venezuela. Who to blame? Probably printing too much money would be the cause.

    So as a thought experiment, imagine if right from the start, Chavez had implemented a tax on exported oil, to be paid only in silver and gold. It would be up to the oil companies to procure the silver/gold for paying the tax. Then, instead of various degrees of socialism and communism, he had simply produced gold and silver coins as currency, and used those to pay a “welfare” payment to the poor people of Venezuela. No other government benefits or services, just silver/gold coins directly to the poor.

    If we can imagine that, then it would also be easy to imagine that US bombs would be droppping on Venezuela during the Bush administration, or at the very latest during the Obama years. That would not be allowed to stand.

    But even further, the rulers of Venezuela, who ever that might be, would never allow that to stand, unless they were allowed to liberally wet their beaks in the process.

    /end thought experiment, it would never work in reality.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  35. #450
    Account Restricted. Admin to review account standing


    Posts
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    Socialism gives and it takes. All that unnatural growth due to resource distribution must contract. In other words, people must die.

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