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Thread: How to save Rand's senate seat

  1. #1

    How to save Rand's senate seat

    Has anybody thought about this? It doesn't look like Rand will be able to run both for president and for senate.

    See: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2...utO/story.html

    Failing a law change, and that failure is pretty certain unless KY Democrats lose control of their state's house, Rand will only be able to run for one or the other. Now I'd like to just say "Well he'll win the POTUS so it won't matter." But......

    Here are the options as I see it.

    1) Wage a write in campaign.

    2) Ensure some other liberty candidate takes his senate seat.

    On # 2 I'm thinking Thomas Massie. Recruit some other pro liberty candidate to run for Massie's seat in 2016 and let Massie run for Rand's senate seat. If we win the trifecta than president Rand has a pro liberty ally from Kentucky in both the house and the senate. If Rand loses then we haven't automatically lost a very important senate seat. Then Rand would have another choice to make. Challenge McConnell his senate seat in 2020 or take another stab at the POTUS.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  3. #2
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  4. #3
    If Rand loses then we haven't automatically lost a very important senate seat. Then Rand would have another choice to make. Challenge McConnell his senate seat in 2020 or take another stab at the POTUS.
    You are missing out on a possible (and possibly enticing) 3rd option.

    He could retire and go back to his medical practice and enjoy life.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    From your link:

    At the quadrennial American national political party conventions, a state delegation sometimes nominates and votes for a candidate from the state, or less often from the state's region, who is not a viable candidate. The technique allows state leaders to negotiate with leading candidates in exchange for the delegation's support. The technique was widely used in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Since nationwide campaigns by candidates and binding primary elections have replaced brokered conventions, the technique has fallen out of use.

    That seems to only work for presidential nominations. How would one have a "brokered convention" for a senate nominee?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    You are missing out on a possible (and possibly enticing) 3rd option.

    He could retire and go back to his medical practice and enjoy life.
    Well yeah. But hopefully only if Massie or someone else that good takes his senate seat.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Well yeah. But hopefully only if Massie or someone else that good takes his senate seat.
    Yeah, just saying 6 years is a lot of time to take out of your life to fight the good fight. He clearly enjoys being a doctor. If I was him and my POTUS run failed I'd be inclined to say "screw it" good luck suckers and go back to doing what I enjoy.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Yeah, just saying 6 years is a lot of time to take out of your life to fight the good fight. He clearly enjoys being a doctor. If I was him and my POTUS run failed I'd be inclined to say "screw it" good luck suckers and go back to doing what I enjoy.
    I bet he runs for President again in 2020, if he loses the 2016 primary.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    That seems to only work for presidential nominations. How would one have a "brokered convention" for a senate nominee?
    I think he was suggesting that he forego the nomination run in KY and just run for the Senate.

    The problem with that, though is that it only gets you to the nomination. Once the general starts, he'd have to drop his Senate run.

    Really, though, I think he should just go all-in.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Yeah, just saying 6 years is a lot of time to take out of your life to fight the good fight. He clearly enjoys being a doctor. If I was him and my POTUS run failed I'd be inclined to say "screw it" good luck suckers and go back to doing what I enjoy.
    If only the Lindsey Grahams, John McCains, Mitch McConnells, Dianne Feinsteins and Hillary Clintons of the world felt that way.....
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I think he was suggesting that he forego the nomination run in KY and just run for the Senate.

    The problem with that, though is that it only gets you to the nomination. Once the general starts, he'd have to drop his Senate run.

    Really, though, I think he should just go all-in.
    Ah. I get it. Yeah, that strategy would get him through the primary but not (as I read it) through the general.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  13. #11

  14. #12
    I'm pretty sure if he loses the presidential nomination, he won't run again. For both Senate or the President seat. It takes a toll on you when you water down an moderate your opinion. Rand would probably end up like Goldwater and Taft. Supporting stuff that they had no business supporting.

  15. #13
    Rand will never be allowed to win the presidency. Might as just run for senate again cause that's as high as he'll be allowed to go.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ctiger2 View Post
    Rand will never be allowed to win the presidency. Might as just run for senate again cause that's as high as he'll be allowed to go.
    If it were a matter of what the establishment "allowed" there would be no Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.

  17. #15
    If the GOP doesn't take control of the Kentucky legislature then Rand needs to forget about running for Senate. Having to fight tooth and nail in court in order to be able to hedge your bets is terrible PR, regardless of whether it is right or wrong. And he can't afford to risk losing electoral votes in the presidential election. There's still plenty of time to do a 180 on this.
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I think he was suggesting that he forego the nomination run in KY and just run for the Senate.

    The problem with that, though is that it only gets you to the nomination. Once the general starts, he'd have to drop his Senate run.

    Really, though, I think he should just go all-in.
    Are we sure of this? Can't Rand decide to not be on the ballot for President in KY even if he wins the primary? Just have Kelley Paul run as an independent in KY. It will be obvious to all of the voters. Then she goes to the convention and signs over her KY delegates if necessary.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If it were a matter of what the establishment "allowed" there would be no Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.
    lol, exactly! I remember people on this very board telling us we couldn't win, all through the senate campaign. It's a matter of strategy, learning to beat them, will to succeed, and tons of hard work! Not some all-powerful enemy which reduces us to helpless victims who can only lament our fates on the internet.
    Original supporter of Ron Paul since 2007 and lifelong supporter of liberty and the Constitution. I stand with Rand.

  21. #18
    On a side note wouldn't it be nice to be a liberty loving congressman, senator with a president Rand Paul in charge.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it."
    James Madison

    "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams



    Μολὼν λάβε
    Dum Spiro, Pugno
    Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by anaconda View Post
    Are we sure of this? Can't Rand decide to not be on the ballot for President in KY even if he wins the primary? Just have Kelley Paul run as an independent in KY. It will be obvious to all of the voters. Then she goes to the convention and signs over her KY delegates if necessary.
    That could be a possibility but even so, doesn't it show a bit of lack of character if you run for an office that you do not actually intend to serve? Kentucky should be allowed to do it if they choose, knowing in advance what could happen, but still...
    Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law. -Douglas Hofstadter

    Life, Liberty, Logic

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTyke View Post
    lol, exactly! I remember people on this very board telling us we couldn't win, all through the senate campaign. It's a matter of strategy, learning to beat them, will to succeed, and tons of hard work! Not some all-powerful enemy which reduces us to helpless victims who can only lament our fates on the internet.
    Establishments will always eventually fall--mostly through their own arrogance--which clouds their judgment after being in power for so long. It's happened in the past, it's currently happening in Europe (once again), and the seeds are being planted that will allow it to happen in the United States. They've ignored and discredited Ron and Rand Paul for so long that they completely ignored the gains they were making. By the time they decided to take Rand Paul somewhat seriously, he had already gained a firm foothold amongst the population. Compounded with the failure of Barack Obama and the Democratic Party, the Establishment has begun to lose control.

    They've begun to fight Rand Paul, but it might be too late for them. What are the final lines of that infamous Gandhi quote? "...Then they fight you, and then you win?"

    First they ignore you= Ron Paul, 2007-2008
    Then they laugh at you= Ron Paul, 2012
    Then they fight you= Rand Paul, 2014-2015
    And then you win= Rand Paul, November 8th, 2016

    The hubris of the Establishment will be their downfall. By the time the Establishment takes a threat to their power seriously, it's usually too late.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Crashland View Post
    doesn't it show a bit of lack of character if you run for an office that you do not actually intend to serve?
    Supporters of Rand want him in at least one or the other position, so he is really just responding to a mandate and arguably forming the best strategy to serve the people against the corrupt leviathan of special interests. It just makes good practical sense. I don't see any "lack of character" issues here. The establishment would like to paint him that way, but it's not about Rand - it's about promoting liberty. I chuckle when I see Huffington Post type comments that Rand "only cares about himself."
    Last edited by anaconda; 10-30-2014 at 02:09 AM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If it were a matter of what the establishment "allowed" there would be no Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky.
    Exactly.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Bastiat's The Law View Post
    Exactly.
    I've never understood those who think that the establishment would let Rand Paul in the Senate, yet wouldn't let him win the Presidency. If the establishment has as much say in elections as people think that they do, why would they have allowed Rand Paul in the Senate in the first place? What's the point of putting someone in power who is a threat to your OWN power? I could perhaps get this line of thinking if Rand was some uncharismatic drone who stumbled over his words every other sentence, but he's a well-spoken, likable, and charismatic politician.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NOVALibertarian View Post
    I've never understood those who think that the establishment would let Rand Paul in the Senate, yet wouldn't let him win the Presidency. If the establishment has as much say in elections as people think that they do, why would they have allowed Rand Paul in the Senate in the first place? What's the point of putting someone in power who is a threat to your OWN power? I could perhaps get this line of thinking if Rand was some uncharismatic drone who stumbled over his words every other sentence, but he's a well-spoken, likable, and charismatic politician.
    The establishment underestimated Rand in 2010. Or has everybody forgotten how Rachel Maddow went from basically being a Rand Paul cheerleader to the wicked witch of the west once Rand Paul won the GOP primary? But by the time the attacks from her and others kicked in it was too late. Kentucky is very much a red state and whoever wins the GOP primary wins the general election. That's very different from a presidential election.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by NOVALibertarian View Post
    I've never understood those who think that the establishment would let Rand Paul in the Senate, yet wouldn't let him win the Presidency. If the establishment has as much say in elections as people think that they do, why would they have allowed Rand Paul in the Senate in the first place? What's the point of putting someone in power who is a threat to your OWN power? I could perhaps get this line of thinking if Rand was some uncharismatic drone who stumbled over his words every other sentence, but he's a well-spoken, likable, and charismatic politician.
    These people think there's a conspiracy behind every bush.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Bastiat's The Law View Post
    These people think there's a conspiracy behind every bush.
    Or the people with some freaking common sense. While I think Rand can win the presidency, if you think the race for the POTUS will be anything like Rand's senate race you are kidding yourself. Again, Rachel Maddow practically fawned over Rand until he won the GOP senate nomination. Now she and others are already attacking Rand before the GOP primary has even started. The establishment miscalculated in 2010. It won't again.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    On a side note wouldn't it be nice to be a liberty loving congressman, senator with a president Rand Paul in charge.
    ^This. I think the best strategy is to work the bench and grow more stars.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TaftFan View Post
    Matt Bevin?
    I didn't follow him in the primary (wish I had) but yeah, he looks good. He was at a severe disadvantage with Rand endorsing Mitch McConnell. But if Rand endorsed him for Rand's seat he might have a decent shot.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by puppetmaster View Post
    On a side note wouldn't it be nice to be a liberty loving congressman, senator with a president Rand Paul in charge.
    If Rand wins the nomination, I think you'll be surprised at how many congressman and senators suddenly find their "liberty-lovin' " side. Remember he will not only become the party's nominee, but the de facto leader of the GOP.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    It won't again.
    Unless they will be done in by their arrogance, much like many other "establishment" governments in the history of mankind.

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