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Thread: Are RON PAUL signs ILLEGAL in your city?

  1. #1

    Red face Are RON PAUL signs ILLEGAL in your city?

    This issue has come up already in the Kansas City area. Overland Park Kansas has sent a letter to Valek (Meetup Organizer) as follows:

    Valek <eurocentric@kc.rr.com> wrote:

    I received this e-mail from a city official, and I just got of the phone with him and he said that publicly displayed Ron Paul signs need to be taken down. He said you should call him if you have any questions. From: Craig.Coffey@opkansas.org

    Sir, I got your name of the Paul Official Site. I hope you assist me. There has been a recent proliferation of Paul political ground signs within the City limits of Overland Park. These signs are regulated by our City Sign Code. At this time, the signs are not permitted to be displayed. We would appreciate your help in removing them right away. Your cooperation is appreciated. I can be contacted at OP City Hall at 895-6207.

    This link will tell you the City's policy on political signs. Please scroll down to the section addressing political signs.

    http://www.opkansas.org/_Assets/law/...ter/18-440.pdf


    Note: Many from our group have linked to this city code and found no law broken by placing Ron Paul signs out on private or public property by timing or placment.

    I'm posting here to let people know this is happening already and we must put the burden of proof back in the hands of these "officials". Show Me The Law. Anything other than that are suggestions and we should NOT treat Ron Paul supporters like law brakers if they in fact are NOT braking any law.

    Would you agree?

    After our KC Billboard project www.ronpaulkc.com/blogs you can see how the political wimp dogs are getting nervous about the on the ground grass fire support out here.

    Annie



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  3. #2

    Default

    Some places do have laws for publically posting a sign. There should not be any for private property, that doesn't mean they made some up anyways.

    A meetup.com organizer can not be held responsible for a sign placed somewhere. He or she does not know who put it there and it can not be proved who put it there.

  4. #3

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    Don't ask them to show you the law - right now, they can't even prove you had anything to do with placing the signs. They need to alert the owners of the property where the signs are that it is illegal, if indeed it is. In the meantime, you can alert said owners of their rights :-)

  5. #4

    Default

    Don't get your legal advice from the internet. Personally, I would not answer the email at all.

  6. #5

    Default use of political signs

    Ron Paul signs or any political sign are legal in the county I live. However, I saw quite a few professional made Ron Paul signs on a major road near where I live. Later I drove by and some idiot ripped the sides off of the RP signs and next to the defaced RP signs where nice shiny new Mitt Romney signs.

  7. #6

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    30 pages of government code for signs. Anyways the city official is saying that at this time the signs are not permitted. Ask him at what time are political signs permitted, what line of the city code indicates this time period as you do not see it. Ask him what day were signs allowed last year.

  8. #7

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    I had to sift through pages of legal mumbo jumbo but arrived at the conclusion that in Bethlehem PA you can put signs on your own property 30 days before the election and you have 10 days after the election to remove them. Then you can only have signs which total X amount of square feet per Y amount of linear frontage, so on and so on.

    At least it's all there but it took a while to figure out. My neighborhood is very active politically so when the signs go up, mine go up. I'm sure there will be a variety of candidates being supported so if there are non Paul supporters (Im sure there are) they'll no doubt give me a hard time if I break the law.

  9. #8

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    While there is something to be said about getting your legal information off the internet, I also think that the Supreme Court has ruled that local legislations about political signs on private property are not Constitutional. Your local ACLU might know the answer.

  10. #9

  11. #10

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    Just blow him off. Here is what Ron Paul has to say about it:

    "Resistance need not be violent, but the civil disobedience that might be required involves confrontation with the state and invites possible imprisonment."

    This came from his speech before the US House on 5/22/07 entitled "In the Name of Patriotism (Who are the Patriots?)" You can read and hear it here:

    http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=571
    Last edited by dirknb@hotmail.com; 09-13-2007 at 08:22 AM.

  12. #11

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    (I'm not a lawyer, but I've looked into this some.) You can place signs on your private property, with two exceptions: 1) if your neighborhood has an association or covenant barring the placement of such signs, or 2) your municipality considers X feet from the street/road to be an easement or "public right of way", in which case you simply place your sign more than X feet from the street/road.

    Now to take a quick detour here, I don't believe, personally, a neighborhood rule against signs should be considered unconstitutional provided it is part of a covenant you agreed to when you bought the property. A deal's a deal. Also, I personally don't think the Constitution enters into it since the Constitution defines the limited powers of the Federal government and lists some explicit limitations thereof. The modern idea that the bill of rights applies to the states is part of what's called "incorporation doctrine", which is a result of the 14th amendment. But the wording of the 14th seems to be a pretty shaky foundation for such a doctrine in my humble opinion. Besides, for some of the amendments in the Bill of Rights to even make sense as applied to the states, they would have to be re-worded.

    Okay, sorry, I got a bit side-tracked there.

  13. #12

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    Hi Annie, excellent thread.

    Here are the rules for DC posted on the Board of Elections and Ethics website:
    http://www.dcboee.org/information/in.../cam_post.shtm
    My review of the For Liberty documentary:
    digg.com/d315eji
    (please Digg and post comments on the HuffPost site)

    "This political train-wreck Republicans face can largely be traced to Bush’s philosophical metamorphosis from a traditional, non-interventionist conservative to the neoconservatives’ exemplar of a 'War President', and his positioning of the Republicans as the 'War Party'."

    Nicholas Sanchez on Bush's legacy, September 30, 2007.

  14. #13

    Lightbulb

    If a sign cannot go in the yard yet, could it possibly go inside your window, plainly visible? There may be size limitations, "cannot cover more than x% of the window," but you may be able to get it visible earlier without the worry if you have a large window. (or any window if the ordinances don't speak to that)

  15. #14

    Default

    Why would you ask? If you have to ask the answer will most likely be NO. Put the sign anywhere you want...........this is a revolution there are no rules!

  16. #15

    Default

    It is this type of "social anarchy" methods that are shipwrecking your campaign. The more responsible members here have pointed that fact out .....

  17. #16
    Member ronpaulhawaii's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaglelover View Post
    It is this type of "social anarchy" methods that are shipwrecking your campaign. The more responsible members here have pointed that fact out .....
    Actually, it is this type of behavior that has MADE our campaign. And in fact, most of those municipal regs are unconstitutional and that has been proven in court

    Try again. Interesting that you have dug out this thread for your little soapbox
    Don't let others get you down. Not naysayers, not pretenders, not appeasers, not opportunists; none of em.

    What others do pales beside what YOU do.

    Press on! - The r3VOLution continues...

    "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    ~ C.Coolidge

  18. #17

    Default

    You are 100% correct when you state, "Actually, it is this type of behavior that has MADE our campaign." Now, face the reality of WHERE your campaign is .... and how irresponsible actions such as this have helped to shipwreck it.

    Please also be aware that the courts have NEVER stated a local municipality cannot regulate political signs. In fact, they CAN and DO enforce certain parameters of responsible posting of such signs while guaranteeing the expression of political speech.

    What the courts HAVE determined is that each community may restrict or regulate such sign placement. The FEW communities that have encountered problems are those found to be unnecessarily restrictive. These FEW instances should NEVER be held up as the norm. Honestly, the vast majority of towns and cities bend over backwards to accomodate the political process.

    I highly doubt this would have been an issue with supporters of a more legitimate candidate ..... IMO, or course .....

  19. #18

    Default

    Generally if you stand up for your rights, the municipality will back down. If not, the first amendment argument tends to work. Yes, there can be time, place, manner restrictions, but oftentimes even the "only x days before the election" type standards get smacked down.





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