Let's Stay On Topic: Delete Threads by Bigots

[Ilhaguru]

Threads like this one:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=93297

A bigot is a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. That is, exactly the opposite to what the message of liberty is.

Let's not allow these people to hijack our forums to spread a message that is completely opposed to this movement and what Dr. Paul stands for.

[constituent]

move it to hot topics.... delete.... naaaaaah

[Redmenace]

Here is an important point I think everyone should remember. This forum is privately owned, freedom of speech only applies to the government. If the owners of this sight want to ban users for saying the word banana then they can and have every right to throw you out.

[JK/SEA]

Threads like this one:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=93297

A bigot is a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. That is, exactly the opposite to what the message of liberty is.

Let's not allow these people to hijack our forums to spread a message that is completely opposed to this movement and what Dr. Paul stands for.

Agreed. For obvious reasons.

[ThomasJ]

Yes this is a private forum but if they want to be an example for Ron Paul then freedom of speech should be protected to the utmost even when it offends. They do not have to do so. If they do not though people will tend to migrate to a place that they do.

[WilliamC]

Threads like this one:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=93297

A bigot is a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion. That is, exactly the opposite to what the message of liberty is.

Let's not allow these people to hijack our forums to spread a message that is completely opposed to this movement and what Dr. Paul stands for.

Actually, bigotry must be tolerated in a free society, but these forums are not public property so it's up to the moderator as to what stays and what goes.

Racism, on the other hand, is not compatable with a free society.

There is a difference, go to www.dictionary.com if you don't understand what it is.

Even though I am not a bigot, I will fight for a bigots right to free speech, because free speech is far more important that hurt feelings.

[Sweman]

Actually, bigotry must be tolerated in a free society, but these forums are not public property so it's up to the moderator as to what stays and what goes.

Yes this is a private forum but if they want to be an example for Ron Paul then freedom of speech should be protected to the utmost even when it offends. They do not have to do so. If they do not though people will tend to migrate to a place that they do.

I think the best would be to strive for something in between these opinions. I don't think we want total freedom and no censorship, because it can lead to chaos.

In a real world community we wouldn't allow people to throw uncalled for insults around them without acting against it. We would neither allow them to stand and scream in the ears of others as they are having a discussion.

Even in a free society the minority will have to adjust to the manners of the majority, but I think that in this community the majority will listen to what the minority has to say, as long as it is brought forward in a civilised way.

[BIRDMAN4PAUL]

Actually, bigotry must be tolerated in a free society, but these forums are not public property so it's up to the moderator as to what stays and what goes.

Racism, on the other hand, is not compatable with a free society.

There is a difference, go to www.dictionary.com if you don't understand what it is.

Even though I am not a bigot, I will fight for a bigots right to free speech, because free speech is far more important that hurt feelings.

bigot

[Ilhaguru]

WilliamC, that's fair enough.

ThomasJ: These people have rights but this forum should not be used to spread someone else's ideas, especially one that is in complete contradiction to the message we are trying to spread. Discussing these ideas is completely fair game, but as this is a private forum, with a specific intent, and when someone undermines it in a serious way something needs to be done.

We have passive moderators and a lot of these comments end up being called on by members, which is good with me, but there's a fine line that if allowed to be crossed will result in anarchy and a complete undermining of our purpose.

[ThomasJ]

WilliamC, that's fair enough.

ThomasJ: These people have rights but this forum should not be used to spread someone else's ideas, especially one that is in complete contradiction to the message we are trying to spread. Discussing these ideas is completely fair game, but as this is a private forum, with a specific intent, and when someone undermines it in a serious way something needs to be done.

We have passive moderators and a lot of these comments end up being called on by members, which is good with me, but there's a fine line that if allowed to be crossed will result in anarchy and a complete undermining of our purpose.

This is why I said delete. Most of the time the Mods move this or that thread to Hot Topics. Which is fine.

I just do not believe in deleting for that sake. If the Hard Drives are full then by all means delete but to delete because it is not PC is wrong.

I know that we are trying to support Dr. Paul on this forum that is why I feel that freedom of speech should at all cost be protected. That is Dr. Paul mission, to protect our civil rights. How can we expect our government to be for individual freedom if our Freedom movement cannot allow that same freedom for people with which we disagree.

[BarryDonegan]

racism is alive and well in america. just the victims have switched around a little bit, and the government is still pushing it on us.

[Caravello]

Most people are bigots. Sorry to break the news to you OP. Blame the Big Man in the sky for making people the way he did. And bigotry comes in many degrees, shapes, and sizes. Far be it from YOU to decide what is and what is not bigotry or to ask the Mods to do that for you.


Geez....


What is this world coming to? People have an aversion to human nature that is truly disturbing, and that's what has gotten us into this mess. If only people could be programmed like little robots, or beat into conformity like dogs we'd all be happier and safer and blah blah blah. Like that old German expression, kick a puppy enough and he falls in love with your shoe.

[firebirdnation]

Most people are bigots. Sorry to break the news to you OP. Blame the Big Man in the sky for making people the way he did. And bigotry comes in many degrees, shapes, and sizes. Far be it from YOU to decide what is and what is not bigotry or to ask the Mods to do that for you.


Geez....


What is this world coming to? People have an aversion to human nature that is truly disturbing, and that's what has gotten us into this mess. If only people could be programmed like little robots, or beat into conformity like dogs we'd all be happier and safer and blah blah blah. Like that old German expression, kick a puppy enough and he falls in love with your shoe.

+1

[Ilhaguru]

Most people are bigots. Sorry to break the news to you OP. Blame the Big Man in the sky for making people the way he did. And bigotry comes in many degrees, shapes, and sizes. Far be it from YOU to decide what is and what is not bigotry or to ask the Mods to do that for you.


Geez....


What is this world coming to? People have an aversion to human nature that is truly disturbing, and that's what has gotten us into this mess. If only people could be programmed like little robots, or beat into conformity like dogs we'd all be happier and safer and blah blah blah. Like that old German expression, kick a puppy enough and he falls in love with your shoe.

Read my reply #7. A little technicality that has been addressed.

My point is that racist remarks do not advance our purpose and therefore should not be tolerated in this board.

Racism is treasonous to liberty. People in this board love conspiracies, they love to say how much they have trolls that have infiltrated us trying to break us apart, but when it comes to racism it's all alright. Racism is trolling at it's worse, it's irrational, and it is a collectivist idea. Completely against what we believe in, and they are hijacking our message because we believe they have the right to what they believe, whether we like it or not.

We have to distance ourselves from them. Their ideas is NOT what we believe in, the exact opposite is. As Ron Paul said, "libertarians are incapable of racism". We find the idea of racism repugnant - we do not respect it, nor the racist scumbag - but we believe it is not a crime, just stupidity.

Read this article from Reason Magazine:

http://reason.com/blog/show/124467.html

[Caravello]

Read my reply #7. A little technicality that has been addressed.

My point is that racist remarks do not advance our purpose and therefore should not be tolerated in this board.

Racism is treasonous to liberty. People in this board love conspiracies, they love to say how much they have trolls that have infiltrated us trying to break us apart, but when it comes to racism it's all alright. Racism is trolling at it's worse, it's irrational, and it is a collectivist idea. Completely against what we believe in, and they are hijacking our message because we believe they have the right to what they believe, whether we like it or not.

We have to distance ourselves from them. Their ideas is NOT what we believe in, the exact opposite is. As Ron Paul said, "libertarians are incapable of racism". We find the idea of racism repugnant - we do not respect it, nor the racist scumbag - but we believe it is not a crime, just stupidity.

Read this article from Reason Magazine:

http://reason.com/blog/show/124467.html

Well, I disagree. I think people, if allowed to be free, would demonstrate that they prefer to live among a similar race. Maybe some do not, and that is their right too. I think you are oversimplifying what race as a collective means in the libertarian position. It means that every one is to be treated as an individual with certain unalienable rights. That's it. If people, in pursuing their rights as citizens to live wherever and with whomever they want demonstrate a pattern of racial grouping, then so what? It does not invalidate the concept of individual liberties. It only would if the races started to use their collective power to deny other races or other individuals their individual rights. And the government should be there to make sure this doesn't happen.

[Ilhaguru]

Well, I disagree. I think people, if allowed to be free, would demonstrate that they prefer to live among a similar race. Maybe some do not, and that is their right too. I think you are oversimplifying what race as a collective means in the libertarian position. It means that every one is to be treated as an individual with certain unalienable rights. That's it. If people, in pursuing their rights as citizens to live wherever and with whomever they want demonstrate a pattern of racial grouping, then so what? It does not invalidate the concept of individual liberties. It only would if the races started to use their collective power to deny other races or other individuals their individual rights. And the government should be there to make sure this doesn't happen.

I completely agree. The individuality point that libertarians believe in make racism and libertarianism mutually exclusive, but ti doesn't make it a crime. I think you are missing my point - how does all that pertain to this forum and the message of libertarianism?

A lot of what you mentioned above has to do with culture and is not necessarily racist. If you don't like latin music, you won't hang out with many latins, but it doesn't mean you're a racist.

[Caravello]

I completely agree. The individuality point that libertarians believe in make racism and libertarianism mutually exclusive, but ti doesn't make it a crime. I think you are missing my point - how does all that pertain to this forum and the message of libertarianism?

A lot of what you mentioned above has to do with culture and is not necessarily racist. If you don't like latin music, you won't hang out with many latins, but it doesn't mean you're a racist.

I see your point. My point was to try and dispel the idea that if people chose to live among others of the same race or if they had ideas that their race was better than another that this was not racism per se, at least in the manner in which JMann was describing it. My idea of racism is only that if one race harms another based solely on race, that that is racism as I understand it and that that is wrong and immoral. In fact, doing harm to anyone is wrong and immoral. And for me that's the only concept of racism that means anything. All the rest is probably a lot more to do with culture, as you say.

[JMann]

I am pleased that people are using the correct terms and have learned the difference between a racist and a bigot. Archie Bunker was considered a bigot in his day where in modern history Imus is called a racist. There are racist no doubt but the term racist is used to destroy people that may just being demonstrating bigotry or prejudice. As I've stated before we all have prejudice, many people are bigoted but there is only a tiny percentage of the population that are truly racist.

[Caravello]

I am pleased that people are using the correct terms and have learned the difference between a racist and a bigot. Archie Bunker was considered a bigot in his day where in modern history Imus is called a racist. There are racist no doubt but the term racist is used to destroy people that may just being demonstrating bigotry or prejudice. As I've stated before we all have prejudice, many people are bigoted but there is only a tiny percentage of the population that are truly racist.

Bull. Most people are racist in that they prefer to be around people of their own race to others. To deny this is foolish. They may look for a variety of ways to express that, like "white flight" or "barrios" or "black inner city" but the results are the same. The different races tend to prefer the company of people like them. Which is re-affirming and comforting if you ask me, because it says that despite all the media sophistication and "education" (i.e. brainwashing) going on, people are still merely advanced animals with the same needs of all animals, to be around their own tribe or clan or pride for feelings of belonging, safety, and comfort. Thank God!

[libertythor]

Bull. Most people are racist in that they prefer to be around people of their own race to others. To deny this is foolish. They may look for a variety of ways to express that, like "white flight" or "barrios" or "black inner city" but the results are the same. The different races tend to prefer the company of people like them. Which is re-affirming and comforting if you ask me, because it says that despite all the media sophistication and "education" (i.e. brainwashing) going on, people are still merely advanced animals with the same needs of all animals, to be around their own tribe or clan or pride for feelings of belonging, safety, and comfort. Thank God!

Yes, and for most its a cultural issue. If you go to any middle class suburb, you will find neighbors of various races sprinkled in there, and there are no troubles.

[Caravello]

Yes, and for most its a cultural issue. If you go to any middle class suburb, you will find neighbors of various races sprinkled in there, and there are no troubles.

yeah, b/c one race is dominant and the other races know they are the minority and try to thrive within that framework. It's when the races all get to be a decent size and compete with each other for "turf" and control that the problems arise, that their kids start fighting each other in schools along racial lines, etc. and why there are very very very few communities in the USA that are like 25% white, 25% black, 25% Asian, 25% hispanic. Multiracial communities like that are simply unworkable. It's hard enough to get different ethnicities and income classes and religions within the same race to get along that people realize that deep down if you thrown in the racial component that it breaks down even more.

And how much energy and time and resources and guilt are we Americans supposed to spend dealing with these things? Geez, what about not having to worry about race and just be left alone with people you want to be with and enjoy life. ....hmmm...enjoying life, what little time we have of it, what a concept... God forbid people actually be happy!!!!

[Ilhaguru]

yeah, b/c one race is dominant and the other races know they are the minority and try to thrive within that framework. It's when the races all get to be a decent size and compete with each other for "turf" and control that the problems arise, that their kids start fighting each other in schools along racial lines, etc. and why there are very very very few communities in the USA that are like 25% white, 25% black, 25% Asian, 25% hispanic. Multiracial communities like that are simply unworkable. It's hard enough to get different ethnicities and income classes and religions within the same race to get along that people realize that deep down if you thrown in the racial component that it breaks down even more.

And how much energy and time and resources and guilt are we Americans supposed to spend dealing with these things? Geez, what about not having to worry about race and just be left alone with people you want to be with and enjoy life. ....hmmm...enjoying life, what little time we have of it, what a concept... God forbid people actually be happy!!!!

You need to take a trip down to Brazil. That place is a true melting pot of all races, and it is so color-blind.

Works quite well.

[JMann]

Bull. Most people are racist in that they prefer to be around people of their own race to others. To deny this is foolish. They may look for a variety of ways to express that, like "white flight" or "barrios" or "black inner city" but the results are the same. The different races tend to prefer the company of people like them. Which is re-affirming and comforting if you ask me, because it says that despite all the media sophistication and "education" (i.e. brainwashing) going on, people are still merely advanced animals with the same needs of all animals, to be around their own tribe or clan or pride for feelings of belonging, safety, and comfort. Thank God!

Obviously you don't know the definition of a racist. So let me help you out from dictionary.com

Racist: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Choosing to associate with people like yourself is no where close to being comparable to the belief that your race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Please understand the term is used by the race warmongers to destroy people's lives. If you think most people are this way you need to find a new crowd to hang out with.

[Jimmy]

Obviously you don't know the definition of a racist. So let me help you out from dictionary.com

Racist: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Choosing to associate with people like yourself is no where close to being comparable to the belief that your race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Please understand the term is used by the race warmongers to destroy people's lives. If you think most people are this way you need to find a new crowd to hang out with.

So what happens when you feel your not superiour to different races at all? Its all in the way folks look at things. Your just different...obviously...Whats wrong with it then exactly?

[JMann]

So what happens when you feel your not superiour to different races at all? Its all in the way folks look at things. Your just different...obviously...Whats wrong with it then exactly?

No it isn't. Words have meaning and definitions. You can't change the words to fit what you think it means. I don't personally know one person that feels like white people are genetically superior to others.

[Ilhaguru]

So what happens when you feel your not superiour to different races at all? Its all in the way folks look at things. Your just different...obviously...Whats wrong with it then exactly?

It is in how you JUDGE a person - by his/her character versus color or some other stupid "reason".

[Caravello]

Obviously you don't know the definition of a racist. So let me help you out from dictionary.com

Racist: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Choosing to associate with people like yourself is no where close to being comparable to the belief that your race is superior and has the right to rule others.

Please understand the term is used by the race warmongers to destroy people's lives. If you think most people are this way you need to find a new crowd to hang out with.

What is wrong with thinking that one's race is better than another's. What's wrong with pride? As long as people don't hurt others because of race, then what is wrong with thinking your own kind is better than others? It's just an opinion anyway, and opinions are like....[bleep]...everyone has one. White people can tell blacks til they are blue in the face that whites are better, and blacks will just say "Sure..whatever you say pal."

We're imperfect. I revel in it. I don't run away from it.

[Redcard]

Obviously government censorship is bad. There are plenty of bigots here, and while I find many of their comments outright inflammatory and disgusting, they are free to make them.

BUT..

By the same account.. we will never win this election, or any others, when people are allowed to staple hateful propaganda onto a candidate who does not believe in that hateful propaganda. It's one thing to have a belief, but we're on the Ron Paul Forums. Our texts here, whether we think they should be or otherwise, DO have an effect on our candidate. If you want to be a hateful bigot, I'd recommend some other site. NOT because I'm trying to stifle your free speech or send you to some "Free Speech Zone," but because it makes it harder for us to win this election.

It's very simple. Do you want to win this election? If you do, you will stop hurting our candidate. It's not easy to sell Ron Paul on people when you have to discliam them on a lot of the supporters of the very candidate you're selling.

I don't know HOW many times I've heard "Well, I used the google on him and it was sponsored by the KKK" or "I read a blog written by someone supporting him that said Jews were never gassed." I don't mind people having their opinions, but those opinions are NOT the ones Ron Paul is running under. Please, have your opinions, but at the same time, recognize when the zealous preaching of your opinions MIGHT be detrimental.

Course, I'm working for the CIA, so what do I know, right?

[libertythor]

Mustache in Spanish is bigote. Delete all threads with avatars that contain mustaches.

[JoshLowry]

I don't like it when threads are deleted either. I will post a reminder in the moderator forum.

Thanks.