Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: The Life Cycle of Empires and America's Destiny

  1. #1

    The Life Cycle of Empires and America's Destiny

    NOTE: I came across a version of this cycle a few years ago. Now this is the only version I can find even though it is not in the same context as the neutral version I found several years ago but it will have to do. This will illustrate the life cycle and the different stages. That is the main point.



    The Life Cycle of Empires and America's Destiny
    http://www.biblestudy.org/prophecy/d...f-america.html


    The German philosopher G.W.F. Hegel (1770-1831) once cynically commented,

    "What experience and history teach us is this—that people and governments never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it."

    Ever since the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union, America seemingly stands over the world as a great colossus economically, culturally, and militarily. Despite the present tests of increasing Iraqi restiveness against the Coalition’s occupying forces and the launching of the war against Islamic terrorism since the events of 9-11 and the looming challenges stemming from the European Union’s growing political and economic unity and China’s rapid modernization and industrialization, America’s lone superpower status still presently remains fundamentally uncontested. But could this change? Despite its preeminence, could America still decline and fall like the great empires of the past, such as those of Britain, Spain, Islam, Rome, Persia, and Babylon? Surveying the history of past fallen empires, the British military officer and historian Sir John Glubb Pasha (1897-1987) discerned in his book, "The Fate of Empires," a general life cycle of stages through which empires developed as they started, expanded, matured, declined, and collapsed. If America today has entered the ending stages of this life cycle, Americans should critically self-examine the current state of their culture to see what could be done to prevent the same grim fate.

    Of course, some may object to calling America an "empire" because this nation usually didn’t make a point of systematically conquering and directly ruling large numbers of alien peoples with different cultures and varied languages for extended time periods. The case of the Philippines (1898-1946), acquired from Spain after the Spanish-American War, stands forth as the clearest exception, since a major native independence movement initially had to be militarily crushed at significant cost in order to hold onto these islands. But through the mechanisms of sporadic military interventions, economic aid, business investment, and the latent mechanisms of "informal empire," American influence in the Caribbean, Latin America, and elsewhere in the world extends far beyond just those areas abroad America directly administers politically today or controlled in decades gone by. In this light, historical comparisons of the United States with past empires are still sound.


    Stages of Life Cycle

    Glubb Pasha discovered that empires experienced similar cultural developments while experiencing a life cycle in a series of stages which may overlap. As he generalized, the stages are:
    The age of outburst (or pioneers)

    The age of conquests

    The age of commerce

    The age of affluence

    The age of intellect

    The age of decadence

    The age of decline and collapse

    Each stage helps to lead to the next as the values of the people change over time as influenced by military, political, economic, and religious developments.

    To generalize, the adventuresome manly values of the warrior propel an empire to power as it expands its territory by conquest in the first two ages. Later, the (inevitably) materialistic and increasingly prudent, risk-averse values of businessmen take over at the highest levels of society during the ages of commerce and affluence. Their societies downplay the values of the solider normally not "from motives of conscience, but rather because of the weakening of a sense of duty in citizens, and the increase in selfishness, manifested in the desire for wealth and ease," as Glubb Pasha maintains. Instead of taking more land (i.e., staying on the offensive), empires at this stage build walls (i.e., defensive barriers) instead, such as the Roman Emperor Hadrian’s wall near the Scottish border, the Great Wall of China, even the Maginot line of twentieth-century France. Then the wealth acquired by conquest and (later) business investment promoted by the political unity provided by the empire (such as how the brutal Mongol Empire later promoted the caravan trade across Eurasia) is later spent to establish educational institutions such as universities and secondary schools. During the age of intellect, these may produce intellectuals (such as the medieval Muslim philosophers Avicenna and Averoes, who drank deeply from the waters of Greek philosophy) who are skeptical of at least some of the values and religious beliefs of the founders and developers of their empire.

    Alternatively, these intellectuals may administer educational institutions that educate the elite or part of the masses in subjects either impractical (i.e., rhetoric in the Rome of the Caesars, when persuading assemblies emotionally was no longer of political value) or mostly oriented towards financial success (e.g., today, the M.B.A), not character development and virtue, as in the early Roman Republic. As both the elites and masses discard the self-confident, self-disciplined values that created the empire because of affluence’s corrosive effects, moral decay and decadence set in.

    Eventually, the empire collapses from (say) an outside power (e.g., the barbarians in Rome’s case) or an energetic internal force (e.g., the communists in Czarist Russia’s case). Likewise, God warned Israel against departing from worshipping him when they became materially satisfied after entering the Promised Land (Deut. 8:11-15, 17-18; 31:20). In short, as the growth of wealth and comfort undermine the values of character that led to the given empire’s creation through self-sacrifice and discipline in its initial stages, an empire increasingly grows weak and subject to destruction to forces arising inside or outside of it.

    The Latter Phase of America's Power?

    Has the United States entered the latter phases of the empire life cycle despite only having been independent from Britain a little over 225 years, despite still being a "young nation"? Does America today have the same values or cultural developments that past empires such as Rome had before they fell? For example, who are the nation’s heroes, and what does their selection indicate about the values of its people? Today, in America people admire and pursue avidly news (i.e., gossip) on celebrities such as sports stars, singers, actors, and musicians. Now Glubb Pasha notes that the heroes of an empire’s leaders and people change over time as their values do. Soldiers, builders, pioneers, and explorers are admired in the initial stages of the empire life cycle. Successful businessmen and entrepreneurs are held up for admiration during the ages of commerce and affluence (cf. the values of prudence, saving, and foresight found in the Horatio Alger stories promoted by late nineteenth-century middle class Americans). The intellectuals and academics are also increasingly admired during the age of intellect.

    During the last stages of decadence and decline, an empire’s people often admire and emulate the athletes, musicians, and actors generally regardless of how corrupt their private lives are. Remarkably, Glubb Pasha found in tenth-century Baghdad, during the Arab Abbasid Empire’s decline, writers complained about the corrupting influence of singers of erotic songs on the young people! How different is the America of recent decades, whether the target of conservatives was Elvis, the Beatles, Ozzy Osbourne, or Marilyn Manson? The immense attachment people have to the (rock) music they love, regardless of its often spiritually rotten lyrical content (including sometimes even positive Satanic allusions), encourages them to esteem people whose lifestyle is truly degenerate because of frequent drug use and casual sex.

    Features of a Declining Empire

    More generally, what are some common features of an empire’s culture in its declining period? Glubb Pasha and Bernard Goetz in "When the Empire Strikes Out" (which usefully summarizes the former’s work) describe developments such as the following:

    The decline of sexual morality, an aversion to marriage in favor of cohabitation, and an increased divorce rate, such as in the upper class of the late Roman Republic and early Empire. The first-century A.D. Roman writer Seneca cynically commented about Roman upper class women, "They divorce in order to re-marry. They marry in order to divorce." The birth rate declines and abortion and infanticide both increase as family size is deliberately limited. The historian W.H. McNeill has referred to the "biological suicide of the Roman upper classes" as one reason for Rome’s decline. Gay sex becomes publicly acceptable and spreads, such as it was among the ancient Greeks before their conquest by Rome.

    The increased economic and political power of women, such as by their entry into the professions and the general workforce. Arab historians complained about the increased influence of women in public life during their empire’s decline. The Roman satirist Juvenal (c. 55 to c. 127 A.D.) was horrified by female gladiators, poets, athletes, and actresses.

    An influx of foreign immigrants into the empire’s capital and major cities. (This could also be elsewhere within its borders, such as the late Roman Empire trying to co-opt barbarians by settling them within the frontier regions of its territory and hiring them to fight other barbarians). The diversity stemming from this cosmopolitan element introduces an (inevitably) culturally divisive element into the empire greatly in excess of its percentage of the population.

    Both frivolity and pessimism increase among the people and their leaders. The spirit described in I Cor. 15:32 spreads in society, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die." As people cynically give up on finding solutions to the problems of life and society, they drop out of the system and turn to mindless entertainment, luxuries and sexual activity, and drugs or alcohol. The astonishingly corrupt and lavish parties of the Roman Empire’s elite, such as the practice of the Emperor Nero spending the modern equivalent of $500,000 for just the flowers at some banquets, are a case in point.

    The government provides welfare for the poor extensively. For example, the masses of the city of Rome (population, perhaps 1.2 million in the second century A.D.) were kept content by government-provided bread and spectacles. Around one-half of its non-slave population was on the dole at least part of the year. Although this provision may seem to manifest Christian compassion (Mark 14:7), it also can encourage laziness and dependency as well (II Thess. 3:10-12), especially when the poor perceive relief as a right of permanent duration, not a privilege to tide them over temporary bad times.

    Now a sharp-eyed skeptical critic may ask about why it’s legitimate to cite evidence of family disintegration or of other societal decline in Rome centuries before it fell. Did the Christianization of the Empire after Constantine proclaimed the Edict of Milan granting Christianity toleration (313 A.D.) help improve Rome’s family life or reform the values of its governing officials?

    True, the small minority that was Catholic Christian (perhaps 10% of the Roman population when the Peace of the Church came) had to be a largely dedicated lot because of the waves of persecution that periodically struck the Church. But in the mass conversions that came in the fourth and fifth centuries, many of these people were far less committed; they changed their personal behavior little if any at all. One Christian priest in the mid-fifth century, Salvian, complained about people who were Christian in name only, such as the carousing members of the elite whose behavior hardly differed from that found at the court of Nero some four centuries earlier: "Something still remained to them of their property, but nothing of their character. They reclined at feasts, forgetful of their honor, forgetting justice, forgetting their faith and the name they bore. There were the leaders of the state, gorged with food, dissolute from winebibbing, wild with shouting, giddy with revelry, completely out of their senses, or rather, since this was their usual condition, precisely in their senses."

    In short, the superficial Christianization (which, incidentally, included the Church compromising by adopting various pagan beliefs and practices) of the Roman Empire before its collapse didn’t seriously improve the moral condition of Rome’s leaders and masses, thus leaving the pre-existing ominous cultural trends in place.

    Decadence and Decline?

    When we examine this list of indicators of an empire’s cultural and moral decline, does anybody really think the United States hasn’t entered the stages of decadence and decline? True, in the past decade or so, the tidal wave of social and cultural decline unleashed by the 1960’s in America has ebbed some, as the rates of abortion, divorce, illegitimate births, drug abuse, welfare dependency, and violent crime either have declined or have gone up much more slowly. Furthermore, some of indicators of decline aren’t all bad. Some immigration is good, for often it amounts to a "brain drain" from Third World countries that benefits the United States economically. And, indeed, the United States historically is a melting pot nation of immigrants.

    Nevertheless, the present influx of immigrants, legal or illegal, equal in impact to the wave that arrived at America’s shores at the turn of the previous century, are far more apt to be a divisive force because the intelligentsia has adopted multiculturalism as an ideal, not assimilation as it was a hundred years ago. Today, multiculturalism is the ideology underlying a potentially ultimate political Balkanization (cf., the liberal historian Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.’s "The Disuniting of America"), such as if and when a Spanish-speaking majority inhabits the American southwest. Then, of course, many women with young children, or older ones without any children at home, have to work full-time because ex-husbands (or ex-boyfriends) dump them in order to escape the burdens of fatherhood or to trade in their old wife for a younger model. And it’s clearly better for young single women or even older widows who haven’t reached retirement age to work outside the home rather than be dependent on handouts from their families or the government. But although the traditional sexual division of labor, of men working outside the home and women working inside it, may appear to be rather arbitrary, discarding it or reversing it simply won’t work for most of society in the long run because of the innately different personalities of men and women.

    In a process that he has dubbed "sexual suicide," the sociologist George Gilder in "Men and Marriage" describes how the feminist values presently enshrined in our culture lead to demographic decline. For as women increasingly feel the need to both bring home the bacon and to fry it up in a pan, the men correspondingly feel useless and feel free to neglect more their family and work responsibilities.

    Given the historical knowledge of Sir John Glubb Pasha’s "The Fate of Empires" and how its insights can be applied to America (and other English-speaking nations, including Britain), how should true Christians react?

    We have to redouble our efforts to warn the world’s nations (Matt. 24:14), especially those largely inhabited by the descendants of the tribe of Joseph (cf. Ezekiel 33:1-9), about their fate if they don’t repent. We ourselves have to avoid letting our own sense of loyalty to our nations blind us to how much displeasure God has in our nations’ sins and how they will be punished in years to come. By knowing history better, we can project our likely national futures better, which fits the observation of the British Prime Minister Winston Churchill:

    "The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see."

    Written By: Eric Snow
    Web Site: www.lionofjudah1.org


    Government Admits Bankruptcy

    NITE Squad - Defending Liberty through IT!
    http://nitesquad.org/

    LaPorte County for Ron Paul Website

    The Third Continental Congress

    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." -- James Madison (August 4. 1822)



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2
    Nice read.. There is no doubt America is on this trend..

    I suggest you read the book "The End of America" by Naomi Wolf.. She goes in depth on how the end of the american empire is near.. With factual evidence

    Here is a lecture from her regarding this, it's about 45 minutes long-

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

    .

  4. #3

  5. #4

    The Dead Giveaways of Imperial Decline

    The Dead Giveaways of Imperial Decline

    Nothing is as permanent as we imagine--especially super-complex, super-costly, super-asymmetric and super-debt-dependent state/financial systems.

    Identifying the tell-tale signs of Imperial decay and decline is a bit of a parlor game. The hubris of an increasingly incestuous and out-of-touch leadership, dismaying extremes of wealth inequality, self-serving, avaricious Elites, rising dependency of the lower classes on free Bread and Circuses provided by a government careening toward insolvency due to stagnating tax revenues and vast over-reach--these are par for the course of self-reinforcing Imperial decay.

    Sir John Glubb listed a few others in his seminal essay on the end of empires The Fate of Empires, what might be called the dynamics of decadence:

    (a) A growing love of money as an end in itself.

    (b) A lengthy period of wealth and ease, which makes people complacent. They lose their edge; they forget the traits (confidence, energy, hard work) that built their civilization.

    (c) Selfishness and self-absorption.

    (d) Loss of any sense of duty to the common good.

    Glubb included the following in his list of the characteristics of decadence:

    -- an increase in frivolity, hedonism, materialism and the worship of unproductive celebrity (paging any Kardashians in the venue...)

    -- a loss of social cohesion

    -- willingness of an increasing number to live at the expense of a bloated bureaucratic state

    Historian Peter Turchin, whom I have often excerpted here, listed three disintegrative forces that gnaw away the fibers of an Imperial economy and social order:

    1. Stagnating real wages due to oversupply of labor

    2. overproduction of parasitic Elites

    3. Deterioration of central state finances

    War and Peace and War: The Rise and Fall of Empires

    To these lists I would add a few more that are especially visible in the current Global Empire of Debt that encircles the globe and encompasses nations of all sizes and political/cultural persuasions:

    1. An absurdly heightened sense of refinement as the wealth of the top 5% has risen so mightily as a direct result of financialization and globalization that the top .1% has been forced to seek ever more extreme refinements to differentiate the Elite class (financial-political royalty) from financial nobility (top .5% or so), the technocrat class (top 5%), the aspirant class (next 15%) and everyone below (the bottom 80%).

    Now that just about any technocrat/ member of the lower reaches of the financial nobility can afford a low-interest loan on a luxury auto, wealthy aspirants must own super-cars costing $250,000 and up.

    A mere yacht no longer differentiates financial royalty from lower-caste financial Nobles, so super-yachts are de riguer, along with extremes such as private islands, private jets in the $80 million-each range, and so on.

    Even mere technocrat aspirants routinely spend $150 per plate for refined dining out and take extreme vacations to ever more remote locales to advance their social status.

    Examples abound of this hyper-inflation of refinement as the wealth of the top 5% has skyrocketed.

    2. The belief in the permanence of the status quo has reached quasi-religious levels of faith. The possibility that the entire financialized, politicized circus of extremes might actually be nothing more than a sand castle that's dissolving in the rising tides of history is not just heresy--it doesn't enter the minds of those reveling in refinement or those demanding more Bread and Circuses (Universal Basic Income, etc.)

    3. Luxury, not service, defines the financial-political Elites. As Turchin pointed out in his book on the decline of empires, in the expansionist, integrative eras of empires, Elites based their status on service to the Common Good and the defense (or expansion) of the Empire.

    While there are still a few shreds of noblesse oblige in the tattered banners of the financial elites, the vast majority of the Elites classes are focused on scooping up as much wealth and power as they can in the shortest possible time, with the goal being not to serve society or the Common Good but to enter the status competition game with enough wealth to afford the refined dining, luxury travel to remote locales, second and third homes in exotic but safe hideaways, and so on.

    4. An unquestioned faith in the unlimited power of the state and central bank. The idea that the mightiest governments and central banks might not be able to print their way of our harm's way, that is, create as much money and credit as is needed to paper over any spot of bother, is unthinkable for the vast majority of the populace, Elites and debt-serfs alike.
    For more: http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjune17...mpire6-17.html

  6. #5
    I would like @Zippyjuan to chime in.


  7. #6

    The Telltale Signs Of Imperial Decline

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...perial-decline

    Authored by Charles Hugh Smith via OfTwoMinds blog,

    Nothing is as permanent as we imagine - especially super-complex, super-costly, super-asymmetric and super-debt-dependent systems.

    Check which signs of Imperial decline you see around you: The hubris of an increasingly incestuous and out-of-touch leadership; dismaying extremes of wealth inequality; self-serving, avaricious Elites; rising dependency of the lower classes on free Bread and Circuses provided by a government careening toward insolvency due to stagnating tax revenues and vast over-reach--let's stop there to catch our breath. Check, check, check and check.

    Sir John Glubb listed a few others in his seminal essay on the end of empires The Fate of Empires, what might be called the dynamics of decadence:

    (a) A growing love of money as an end in itself: Check.

    (b) A lengthy period of wealth and ease, which makes people complacent. They lose their edge; they forget the traits (confidence, energy, hard work) that built their civilization: Check.

    (c) Selfishness and self-absorption: Check.

    (d) Loss of any sense of duty to the common good: Check.

    Glubb included the following in his list of the characteristics of decadence:

    -- an increase in frivolity, hedonism, materialism and the worship of unproductive celebrity (paging any Kardashians in the venue...)

    -- a loss of social cohesion

    -- willingness of an increasing number to live at the expense of a bloated bureaucratic state

    Historian Peter Turchin, whom I have often excerpted here, listed three disintegrative forces that gnaw away the fibers of an Imperial economy and social order:

    1. Stagnating real wages due to oversupply of labor

    2. overproduction of parasitic Elites

    3. Deterioration of central state finances

    War and Peace and War: The Rise and Fall of Empires

    To these lists I would add a few more that are especially visible in the current Global Empire of Debt that encircles the globe and encompasses nations of all sizes and political/cultural persuasions:

    1. An absurdly heightened sense of refinement as the wealth of the top 5% has risen so mightily as a direct result of financialization and globalization that the top .1% has been forced to seek ever more extreme refinements to differentiate the Elite class (financial-political royalty) from financial nobility (top .5% or so), the technocrat class (top 5%), the aspirant class (next 15%) and everyone below (the bottom 80%).

    Now that just about any technocrat/ member of the lower reaches of the financial nobility can afford a low-interest loan on a luxury auto, wealthy aspirants must own super-cars costing $250,000 and up.

    A mere yacht no longer differentiates financial royalty from lower-caste financial Nobles, so super-yachts are de riguer, along with extremes such as private islands, private jets in the $80 million-each range, and so on.

    Even mere technocrat aspirants routinely spend $150 per plate for refined dining out and take extreme vacations to ever more remote locales to advance their social status.

    Examples abound of this hyper-inflation of refinement as the wealth of the top 5% has skyrocketed.

    2. The belief in the permanence of the status quo has reached quasi-religious levels of faith. The possibility that the entire financialized, politicized circus of extremes might actually be nothing more than a sand castle that's dissolving in the rising tides of history is not just heresy--it doesn't enter the minds of those reveling in refinement or those demanding more Bread and Circuses (Universal Basic Income, etc.)

    3. Luxury, not service, defines the financial-political Elites. As Turchin pointed out in his book on the decline of empires, in the expansionist, integrative eras of empires, Elites based their status on service to the Common Good and the defense (or expansion) of the Empire.

    While there are still a few shreds of noblesse oblige in the tattered banners of the financial elites, the vast majority of the Elites classes are focused on scooping up as much wealth and power as they can in the shortest possible time, with the goal being not to serve society or the Common Good but to enter the status competition game with enough wealth to afford the refined dining, luxury travel to remote locales, second and third homes in exotic but safe hideaways, and so on.

    4. An unquestioned faith in the unlimited power of the state and central bank.The idea that the mightiest governments and central banks might not be able to print their way of our harm's way, that is, create as much money and credit as is needed to paper over any spot of bother, is unthinkable for the vast majority of the populace, Elites and debt-serfs alike.

    That all this newly issued currency and credit is nothing but claims on future production of goods and services and rising productivity never enters the minds of the believers in unlimited state/bank powers. We have been inculcated with the financial equivalent of the Divine Powers of the Emperor: the government and central bank possess essentially divine powers to overcome any problem, any crisis and any conflict simply by creating more money, in whatever quantities are deemed necessary.

    If $1 trillion in fresh currency will do the trick--no problem! $10 trillion? No problem! $100 trillion? No problem! there is no upper limit on how much new currency/credit the government and central bank can create.

    ...
    Full article at link.

    ---

    Banks can always print more money, but can not ever guarantee the value of that money they print.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  8. #7
    It's like we're watching Rome smolder.
    "The Patriarch"

  9. #8

    Average age of an Empire

    https://www.times-standard.com/2017/...ar%20in%202026.

    The average age of empires, according to a specialist on the subject, the late Sir John Bagot Glubb, is 250 years. After that, empires always die, often slowly but overwhelmingly from overreaching in the search for power.

    The America of 1776 will reach its 250th year in 2026. Happy Fourth!


    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #9
    An issue with your thesis lies in Sir Glubb's definition.

    The word ‘empire’, by association with the British Empire, is visualised by some people as an organisation consisting of a homecountry in Europe and ‘colonies’ in other continents. In this essay, the term ‘empire’ is used to signify a great power, often called today a superpower.
    These United States did not assume superpower status until after WW1, and really not until WW2. In his listing of empires, he separates the Roman Republic from the Roman Empire even though they were contiguous. The same continuity can be seen pre- and post-British Empire, before and after Alexander's rise in Greece., etc.

    Also, overreach it not the signature cause of empire dissolution.

    But whereas the life histories of great nations show an unexpected uniformity, the nature of their falls depends largely on outside circumstances and thus shows a high degree of diversity.
    Finally, in a country with rampant innumeracy I must point out that there is a difference between median and mean. History is littered with empires that lasted less than 200 years. In these United States, the republic's time has passed. Will the imperial phase last past 2026? Who knows. We take it day by day.

    For those interested, the Fate of Empires essay is readily available online in PDF format.

    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  12. #10
    [sic]

    But when we look at America’s foreign policy since World War II we should be most soberly gripped by a contradiction in thinking that could be leading us disastrously into the last hours of empire.

    I am talking about the obsession among many of our foreign policy elites with spreading democracy across the world — and doing it more and more at the tip of a sword, with the shot of a rifle and the horrific destruction of a bomb.

    This is no longer the Wilsonian ideal of “making the world safe for democracy” that sprang out of the bloody trenches of World War I. This is something new, a mind-set that sounds noble but is so deadly in practice that, contrary to what Americans are being led to believe, it is not only causing the massacre of foreigners but slowly and surely destroying democracy within America itself.

    We're being governed ruled by a geriatric Alzheimer patient/puppet whose strings are being pulled by an elitist oligarchy who believe they can manage the world... imagine the utter maniacal, sociopathic hubris!

  13. #11
    Empire or superpower?

    I've seen both measured and I've seen both measured against the founding of the U.S. in 1776 vs. post WWI (but in most cases, WWII) status.

    The conclusion, however, remains the same in every investigation I read: the U.S. is in decline, and a rapid one at that.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    Empire or superpower?

    I've seen both measured and I've seen both measured against the founding of the U.S. in 1776 vs. post WWI (but in most cases, WWII) status.

    The conclusion, however, remains the same in every investigation I read: the U.S. is in decline, and a rapid one at that.
    There is no "saving" a globalist corporatist regime. "Trying" only conditions the people for more infringements and loss of personal wealth. Perhaps the only way is to look at other avenues.
    ____________

    Mises Institute

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    The conclusion, however, remains the same in every investigation I read: the U.S. is in decline, and a rapid one at that.
    I think we check all the boxes.
    The stages of the rise and fall of great nations seem to be:

    The Age of Pioneers (outburst)
    The Age of Conquests
    The Age of Commerce
    The Age of Affluence
    The Age of Intellect
    The Age of Decadence.

    Decadence is marked by:
    Defensiveness
    Pessimism
    Materialism
    Frivolity
    An influx of foreigners
    The Welfare State
    A weakening of religion.

    Decadence is due to:
    Too long a period of wealth and power
    Selfishness
    Love of money
    The loss of a sense of duty.
    XNN
    "They sell us the president the same way they sell us our clothes and our cars. They sell us every thing from youth to religion the same time they sell us our wars. I want to know who the men in the shadows are. I want to hear somebody asking them why. They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are but theyre never the ones to fight or to die." - Jackson Browne Lives In The Balance

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    There is no "saving" a globalist corporatist regime. "Trying" only conditions the people for more infringements and loss of personal wealth. Perhaps the only way is to look at other avenues.
    It has to fail. Trying to save it is futile. Perhaps it can be remade from the ashes, although it may not be as large or strong as before, maybe it will be more pure once the follies are made known.

    Quote Originally Posted by XNavyNuke View Post
    I think we check all the boxes.

    XNN
    Yes, we absolutely do. We are mirroring the fall of the Roman Empire quite eloquently.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  17. #15
    So...our empire is coming to an end after all?
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Okie RP fan View Post
    We are mirroring the fall of the Roman Empire quite eloquently.
    No, not the fall of the empire, but the fall of the republic.

    The parallels with the late Roman Republic are numerous and striking. Hell, now there's even a Lex Agraria tie-in, of all things - though I doubt that any senators are going to end up beating anyone to death over it ... (at least, not yet ...)

    The Roman Empire, on the other hand, makes the modern United States look like a bunch of clownish and pathetic pikers.

    Rome (as both republic and empire) endured for over a millennium. I'd be surprised if the U.S. lasts for even a third of that.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The Roman Empire, on the other hand [...]
    It should also be noted that the effective partition of Rome into the Western and Eastern empires serves as yet another example of a significant political separation that did not require a "civil war" to bring about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Rome (as both republic and empire) endured for over a millennium. I'd be surprised if the U.S. lasts for even a third of that.
    And speaking of Byzantium, if one counts the eastern empire, Rome actually endured in some form for over two millennia - which makes the U.S. look even lamer in comparison (as of yet).

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    No, not the fall of the empire, but the fall of the republic.

    The parallels with the late Roman Republic are numerous and striking. Hell, now there's even a Lex Agraria tie-in, of all things - though I doubt that any senators are going to end up beating anyone to death over it ... (at least, not yet ...)

    The Roman Empire, on the other hand, makes the modern United States look like a bunch of clownish and pathetic pikers.

    Rome (as both republic and empire) endured for over a millennium. I'd be surprised if the U.S. lasts for even a third of that.
    Dammit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    No, not the fall of the empire, but the fall of the republic.

    The parallels with the late Roman Republic are numerous and striking. Hell, now there's even a Lex Agraria tie-in, of all things - though I doubt that any senators are going to end up beating anyone to death over it ... (at least, not yet ...)

    The Roman Empire, on the other hand, makes the modern United States look like a bunch of clownish and pathetic pikers.

    Rome (as both republic and empire) endured for over a millennium. I'd be surprised if the U.S. lasts for even a third of that.
    Dammit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    It should also be noted that the effective partition of Rome into the Western and Eastern empires serves as yet another example of a significant political separation that did not require a "civil war" to bring about..
    Excellent reminder. This will be one of my primary 2021 "talking points" as I try to find my "50 righteous within the city" before the high sodium world kicks in.
    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”

    H.L. Mencken

  24. #21

  25. #22
    The sad thing is that the American "empire" as we'll call it could have lasted for so much longer had it retained principled economics. Then again, would it have really been an empire in doing so?

    There can be some relief when examining most empires do decay and die off to a great degree, but they will remain intact to an extent. But, usually in a much smaller form. That said, the breaking up of the U.S. will happen if we see it play out like other empires. Parts of it will be ceded to other countries or they'll create countries of their own.

    U.S. territories will likely be handed back, etc.
    Welcome to the R3VOLUTION!

  26. #23
    https://x.com/thinkingwest/status/1838929492875546715
    to: https://x.com/thinkingwest/status/1838929544641724716
    {ThinkingWest @thinkingwest | 25 September 2024}

    [various illustrations omitted - OB]

    All empires repeat the same cycle, says 20th-century historian John Glubb.

    He observed that for the past 3000 years every civilization has followed the same 6 stages before decline—what are they?

    Sir John Bagot Glubb was a British soldier and author who served as the commanding general for Transjordan's Arab Legion from 1939 to 1956.

    In his later years he wrote about geopolitics and world history, and penned a succinct description of how civilizations rise and fall…

    Glubb’s 1978 work, “The Fate of Empires and the Search for Survival,” is an idea-dense essay that argues all great empires follow an eerily similar pattern.

    From observing 11 distinct cultures, Glubb draws some intriguing conclusions that have implications for modern society.


    Glubb first notes that empires generally only last ~250 years, or 10 human generations.

    Though there are exceptions, a remarkable similarity in life spans emerges when one compares them side-by-side.


    Glubb writes:

    “In spite of the accidents of fortune, and the apparent circumstances of the human race at different epochs, the periods of duration of different empires at varied epochs show a remarkable similarity.”

    And the trend holds regardless of a civilization’s technological level:

    “The Assyrians marched on foot and fought with spears…The British used artillery, railways and ocean-going ships. Yet the two empires lasted for approximately the same periods.”

    The first stage of an empire, Glubb claims, is the Age of Pioneers, or “the outburst”.

    This is where a small, seemingly insignificant nation emerges from its homeland and establishes a presence on the world stage. The outburst is characterized by energy, courage, and creativity.

    Glubb describes the new conquerors as “normally poor, hardy and enterprising and above all aggressive.”

    Unbound by established traditions, they rely on improvisation and experimentation:

    “If one method fails, they try something else.”

    Glubb gives the example of Macedon in the 4th century:

    “Prior to Philip (359-336 B.C.), Macedon had been an insignificant state to the north of Greece…Yet by 323 B.C., thirty-six years after the accession of Philip…the Macedonian Empire extended from the Danube to India…”

    The second stage is called the Age of Conquests.

    The sophistication of aging civilizations are adopted by the rising power. Thus, their expansion consists of “organised, disciplined and professional campaigns.”

    This is where the culture becomes a bona fide “empire”.

    This stage is characterized by confidence, optimism, and contempt for “decadent” cultures whom they’ve conquered.

    The people of the new empire are practical in both government and war.

    Moreover, Glubb notes that their lack of tradition allows their leadership a freedom to try new things:

    “...the leaders are free to use their own improvisations, not having studied politics or tactics in schools or in textbooks.”

    Next comes the Age of Commerce.

    With the acquisition of vast areas of land, commerce becomes easy and safe for the empire’s citizens. Resources, people, and ideas are exchanged over great distances. And if the empire is large, a great variety of products are produced.

    The Age of Commerce often overlaps with the Age of Conquests, but the public's values begin to shift:

    “The proud military traditions still hold sway and the great armies guard the frontiers, but gradually the desire to make money seems to gain hold of the public”

    An honor culture is replaced by a mercantile one:

    “During the military period, glory and honour were the principal objects of ambition. To the merchant, such ideas are but empty words, which add nothing to the bank balance.”

    The Age of Affluence comes next, and is a natural consequence of the Age of Commerce.

    Monetary gain becomes the sole pursuit:

    “…the Age of Affluence silences the voice of duty. The object of the young and the ambitious is no longer fame, honour or service, but cash.”

    The fighting spirit of the empire fades as leaders buy off enemies rather than fight them:

    “…subsidies instead of weapons are employed to buy off enemies…Military readiness, or aggressiveness, is denounced as primitive and immoral. Civilised peoples are too proud to fight.”

    The fifth stage in Glubb’s model is the Age of Intellect—a period of scholarly activity that coincides with decline. Whereas in the Age of Affluence the merchant class patronized the arts, now colleges and universities are given immense funding.

    Glubb noted that in his own time, he saw the US and Britain as undergoing this phase:

    “When these nations were at the height of their glory, Harvard, Yale, Oxford and Cambridge seemed to meet their needs. Now almost every city has its university.”

    And once again the energy of the society is directed toward a new goal:

    “The ambition of the young, once engaged in the pursuit of adventure and military glory, and then in the desire for the accumulation of wealth, now turns to the acquisition of academic honours.”

    The final stage of an empire is the Age of Decadence. It’s characterized by a number of symptoms:

    • internal division
    • an influx of foreigners
    • materialism and frivolity
    • a welfare state
    • weakening religion
    • a defensive mindset

    Empires decline amidst a “cacophony of argument”. Glubb writes that “endless and incessant talking” fails to solve political and social disagreements:

    “Amid a Babel of talk, the ship drifts on to the rocks.”

    This is because cleverness cannot solve problems that require self-sacrifice:

    “...there are times when the perhaps unsophisticated self-dedication of the hero is more essential than the sarcasms of the clever.”

    Glubb notes that internal strife is a hallmark of decline and gives the Byzantine Empire as a prime example. Civil wars and infighting preoccupied the empire until the Ottomans were already on their doorstep.

    “Strikes, demonstrations, boycotts and similar activities” are prevalent in the last stage of empire, and internal strife is exacerbated by external conflict. Rather than unifying around a potential threat, the nation pulls itself apart.

    An influx of foreigners, usually concentrated in cities, accompanies a civilization’s decline. Glubb claims that when a culture is homogeneous, there is a feeling of “solidarity and comradeship” among the people, but a large number of foreigners disrupts this.

    Foreigners disrupt the unity of the empire due to a few reasons:

    1. their nature often differs from that of the original imperial stock
    2. in hard times they are less willing to sacrifice their lives and their property
    3. they are liable to form communities of their own
    4. there may be resentment among those who were previously conquered by the imperial race

    Glubb notes that these problems are not due to superiority or inferiority of any race, rather because there are natural differences between them that makes a single culture difficult to maintain.

    In his time, he noticed an influx of migrants to the declining British Empire:

    “In London today, Cypriots, Greeks, Italians, Russians, Africans, Germans and Indians jostle one another on the buses and in the underground, so that it sometimes seems difficult to find any British.”

    Frivolity is also a sign of decline. Glubb claims that this mindset is rooted in pessimism:

    “Let us eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.”

    Decadence is ultimately a spiritual sickness resulting from too long a period of wealth and power. Cynicism, decline of religion, pessimism, and frivolity follow.

    No effort is made to save the nation, because its citizens no longer believe anything is worth saving.

    Glubb saw the similarities between empires’ lifespans as a reason to teach history differently.

    Rather than focusing on particular nations or periods, the history of the whole human race should be taught.

    He concluded:

    “... if we studied calmly and impartially the history of human institutions and development over these four thousand years, should we not reach conclusions which would assist to solve our problems today?

    What do you think of Glubb’s analysis—do empires follow similar cycles? Are we destined to repeat the patterns of civilizations who came before us?

    And if so, which of Glubb’s stages are we currently in?



Similar Threads

  1. How the obesity epidemic is ruining America’s sex life
    By Suzanimal in forum Personal Health & Well-Being
    Replies: 141
    Last Post: 08-07-2014, 03:27 PM
  2. Replies: 25
    Last Post: 06-13-2014, 07:25 PM
  3. Life in America Under Agenda 21 with whistleblower Charlotte Iserbyt
    By John F Kennedy III in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-14-2012, 09:39 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-10-2011, 08:00 PM
  5. Amazing Video: Witness Life In America After The Next Meltdown
    By Indy Vidual in forum Open Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-21-2010, 09:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •